RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Norfolk => England => Norfolk Lookup Requests => Topic started by: BeatleMania on Wednesday 30 March 16 15:29 BST (UK)
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Julia's surname is a guess based on the middle name of a daughter, Mary Bloye Laird born c1816, Lynn ....
Julia died in Lynn, 1839 at the age of 53 - giving an approx. birth year of 1786.
John Laird and his 3 daughters are in Lynn for the 1841 census - the eldest girl Sarah Julia was born c1813 in Lynn.
John is around in 1851 and gives his Birthplace as Portsmouth Hants c 1777. But I doubt that - there was a clan of Lairds in the Lynn area from the mid 1700s ..... but that's by the bye.
I have searched fruitlessly over the years for their Marriage - in the last few years more records were made available and I found Julia's death record from the Parish Registers.
I wonder if a fresh pair of eyes may have better luck?
My searches focused on the Kings Lynn area, but I did look further afield to no avail.
My thanks in anticipation, Dolly
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Hi Dolly,
Couldn't find a marriage I'm afraid, but an interesting Will, made by William Laird of Kings Lynn and proved in 1813.
In it, he mentions a son, John, and a daughter, Sarah, who is married to a Robert Bloye.
I'm afraid the link to the actual image of the Will doesn't work, but if you tick "Probate" and type in William Laird, the link should come up.
http://www.norfolksources.norfolk.gov.uk/DserveNS/
Yorkslass
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John is around in 1851 and gives his Birthplace as Portsmouth Hants c 1777. But I doubt that - there was a clan of Lairds in the Lynn area from the mid 1700s ..... but that's by the bye.
I wouldn't be too quick to rule that out. The 1841 census has him not born in Norfolk and there is this baptism :
John Laird 11 Aug 1777 ( baptised at 2 months ) Portsea St Mary , William and Mary Laird.
There is also a Sarah Laird born to William , baptised 3 Sep 1771 Portsea St Mary - could fir with the will mentioned by Yorkslass.
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Hi Dolly
John Laird's youngest daughter Julia married William South Freeman and is my husband's 2 x great grandmother.
I am sure I had some discussions on here with another researcher descended from Sarah.
I will check what I have.
Barbara
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Link to previous discussion of this family which may be of interest.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=166205.0
Barbara
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Familysearch has the marriage of Sarah Laird to Robert Bloye 18 June 1801 in Stoke Damerel, Devon
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Many thanks to all who have replied to my query.
Of special interest is the Portsea Baptism - I was assured by a local researcher some years back that there "NO Lairds in the Registers ..." - just goes to show !
Now wondering if this William is the man who married a Mary Austin in 1764, Lynn St Nicholas ?
Thank you Barbara for the link from 2006. I have an inkling who that may be, so will try & get back in touch.
I am intrigued by the East London Marriage reference to a Julia Lloyd too !
My appreciation for all the help - Dolly.
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Hi again Dolly
The marriage in London is definitely interesting. I couldn't see any Laird baptisms in London for those parents.
I also had a quick look at the will left by Robert Bloye (proved in the PCC) who married Sarah Laird. He names a lot of family members including a John Laird. I need to examine the will more carefully and to check the other children named in William Laird's will.
My concern is that John Laird, a Tailor and then a Postman does not seem to quite fit with being the son of William Laird, Gentleman and the brother in law of a RM captain.
I assume you are descended from Sarah Julia?
Barbara
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Oh well done for locating Robert Bloye's will! Do have an online link?
I too have some doubts about the links, but given that our man is the highly probable bro-in-law (newly found Parish records from Portsea, and the likelihood that the 1764 Marriage in Lynn of a William Laird to a Mary Austin are the likely same parents shown in Portsea Register), and that we don't know if William's description of 'Gentleman' is linked to any affluence (page 2 of his will shows 'Effects: Less than £20') ..... I think there may be hope!
We don't know what John Laird did or where he was from 1777 to 1813 when his oldest child was born in Lynn, did he come back to his parents town? - I suspect that father William was a Navy Man ?) ..... so when did he and Mary come back to Lynn?
I am not directly related, am doing some research with a maternal cousin for some years now (she is a descendant of Mary Bloye Laird) & this came up again - really pleased to see there are some more clues !
Kind Regards. D
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Hi Dolly
This is a link to Robert Bloye's will on ancestry
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01hd5/
It is very detailed and, as it seems he had no children, there are lots of bequests to family members. It is also quite clear about relatiionships who is already deceased and shows a second marriage for Mary Laird widow of John Roman who has married a Billing. He was a rear Admiral when he made a codicil to his will.
I have been doing some more digging and I can see baptisms in Portsea for 4 of the children named in William Laird's will.
It is beginning to look like our John Laird was the son named in that will. I expect you have noticed that all the places we know of where events took place are ports.
The London marriage record does not give many clues although both John and Julia were single. The witnesses do not seem to be family members.
Do you think the older son William is the man who predeceased his father in 1809? The age seems to fit.
I realised after I posted that Saraj Julia did not marry. I can see her in the censuses up to her death except in 1851.
Barbara
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Thank you for all that extra info Barbara. Sadly I let my Ancestry sub expire, and of course have missed the recent free Easter extravaganza ! I thought I recalled recently a free site for PCC wills, but cant find a reference now.
No worries, your insights would seem to suggest that John is indeed the son of William Laird & Mary Austin.
I agree, the William born 1865 and passing in 1809 would seem to fit.
I recall searching on FreeReg and seeing a Laird (?Benjamin?) burial register entry for Lynn which stated 'Gunner Royal Navy' - so maybe as well as Bakers, the Lairds were seamen !
My cousin had a theory that the Scottish name suddenly appeared in Norfolk about the time that Bonny Prince Charlie's Army retreated north from England - maybe a deserter ? Nice thought haha !
Perhaps John & Julia used 'Bloye' for their daughter's middle name as a tribute to his sister's new name & Husband ? Such practice wasn't always a straightforward carrying-on of a previous Maiden name ..... I am given to understand ?
Not sure how one would pursue that London Marriage or the history of Julia Lloyd ?
Its really great that you have taken such an interest - hope its also helpful to you and your Husband's tree !
Kind Regards, D
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Robert Bloye hailed from the Kings Lynn area too ! He made post-rank in 1815, and eventually Rear Admiral by seniority in 1846 ...
http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/42017.html
Also his wife is described as the Aunt of Henry Laird Cox, a Naval Surveyor ..
http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/42018.html
They were bequeathed to the Museum by a descendant, Isobel Roe, in 1968 with those of the Bloyes (MNT0068, MNT0069, Cox's aunt and naval uncle) and another family portrait (PAG6466).
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"My cousin had a theory that the Scottish name suddenly appeared in Norfolk about the time that Bonny Prince Charlie's Army retreated north from England - maybe a deserter ? Nice thought haha !"
I have read that Queen Victoria made it possible for Scots to come down to England and farm, which is why there have been quite a number of Scots surnames in Essex going back to Queen Victoria's reign, no doubt it applied to other counties.
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I saw those too yesterday Dolly.
When I have a moment I will type out a list of the people named in Robert Bloye's will. It is annoying that he only referes to "the children of John Laird" and does not name them !
Interesting information findem and worth exploring further .
Barbara
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"My cousin had a theory that the Scottish name suddenly appeared in Norfolk about the time that Bonny Prince Charlie's Army retreated north from England - maybe a deserter ? Nice thought haha !"
I have read that Queen Victoria made it possible for Scots to come down to England and farm, which is why there have been quite a number of Scots surnames in Essex going back to Queen Victoria's reign, no doubt it applied to other counties.
Didn't know that; but sadly doesn't apply - this name appears in the Kings Lynn area mid 1700's.
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I saw those too yesterday Dolly.
When I have a moment I will type out a list of the people named in Robert Bloye's will. It is annoying that he only referes to "the children of John Laird" and does not name them !
Interesting information findem and worth exploring further .
Barbara
Look forward to seeing the names Barbara !
Perhaps John & Julia used 'Bloye' for their daughter's middle name as a tribute to his sister's new name & Husband ? Such practice wasn't always a straightforward carrying-on of a previous Maiden name ..... I am given to understand ?
I have discussed this with my cousin again, and we have recalled other examples - so its the popular option here now - LOL.
So that marriage to a Julia Lloyd is beginning to look very good - given the rarity of the names, it must be a highly probable candidate ... but no idea how to prove it !
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John Laird age 77 was buried 30 March 1854 at All Saints Kings Lynn of Windsor Road.
His birth date would be 1777.
There is also a John Laird age 54 buried 7 August 1863 of Union Street, accidentally killed by the Lynn Hunstanton Railway on 3 August 1863. This unfortunate event probably made the papers and may give relatives names.
Also Susanna Laird age 54 died 27 August 1863 of injuries caused by Hunstanton railway accident 3 August 1863.
Added
Kings Lynn Forums
There is a copy of the newspaper report headline Hunstanton Line Crash 1863
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William Laird who died 1813 names his five children:
William Laird, Mary wife of John Roman, Sarah wife of Robert Bloye, Elizabeth wife of William Cox, John Laird.
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Thanks for this amondg.
John seems to be the son of Benjamin and his wife Susan baptised 11 Apr 1809. John's wife Susanna was formerly Hubbard and they married 28 Mar 1833.
When I get some time I will need to revisit the Laird family.
Barbara
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Not sure if this is worth considering but here goes.
Going back to at least the 1200s some Scots nobles also held lands in England from King Edward of England, so there is a possibility of an interchange of personnel. I would imagine that when Scotland kicked the English out, Scots nobles with lands in England would be faced with losing either their Scottish lands or the English lands, any that chose to lose their Scottish land in favour of keeping the English ones would no doubt have taken people with them back to England.
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John Laird age 77 was buried 30 March 1854 at All Saints Kings Lynn of Windsor Road.
His birth date would be 1777.
There is also a John Laird age 54 buried 7 August 1863 of Union Street, accidentally killed by the Lynn Hunstanton Railway on 3 August 1863. This unfortunate event probably made the papers and may give relatives names.
Also Susanna Laird age 54 died 27 August 1863 of injuries caused by Hunstanton railway accident 3 August 1863.
Added
Kings Lynn Forums
There is a copy of the newspaper report headline Hunstanton Line Crash 1863
Thanks for that information ... sad story indeed.
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Thanks for this amondg.
John seems to be the son of Benjamin and his wife Susan baptised 11 Apr 1809. John's wife Susanna was formerly Hubbard and they married 28 Mar 1833.
When I get some time I will need to revisit the Laird family.
Barbara
I am wondering if William, John (1777) father (married 1760s) was the brother of the older Benjamin that can be seen in the Death Index ?
I have sketched out a tree with William & Benjamin as the oldest Generation, but no obvious way of seeing if they were brothers.
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"My cousin had a theory that the Scottish name suddenly appeared in Norfolk about the time that Bonny Prince Charlie's Army retreated north from England - maybe a deserter ? Nice thought haha !"
I have read that Queen Victoria made it possible for Scots to come down to England and farm, which is why there have been quite a number of Scots surnames in Essex going back to Queen Victoria's reign, no doubt it applied to other counties.
Quite a few Scots came from Scotland to tenant Lord Petres estates in Essex at that era.