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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: bykerlads on Friday 01 April 16 19:19 BST (UK)
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Am trying to find out where the 1st/5th Duke of Wellington's West Riding regiment was on 1 July 1916.
I don't think they were involved at the Somme but would like to know where the men would have been on that date.
Any ideas?
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1 Jul The battalion was part of the 147 Brigade, 49th Divsion, X Corps and was in Corps reserve. It moved up to Aveluy Wood and waited for the call to action, which didn't come.
2 Jul moved to Thiepval Wood and took over a section of the line.
3 Jul ordered to attack Theipval village - the order was cancelled before the men went over the top.
Lucky chaps, for a while at least.
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Thank you very much for this information, Newbury.
We are hoping to be on the Somme on 1 July to stand where the much less fortunate Tyneside Scottish stood and fell.OH's grandfather being a rare survivor of that day.
Now we can also visit where our other Yorkshire grandfathers were.
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According to the map ref. this is where they were on the 1st. July having moved forward from the assembly trenches in Aveluy Wood.
They are about 3 mls. W of Pozieres. They were in the dugouts along the R. Ancre (Kelly Bridge) in what they called the Bluff which is on the East bank.
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Thanks for that, Jim.
Having just looked on the CWGC website for details about 1 July, it looks as if the area immediately around Thiepval will be difficult to access on the day unless one is signed up for an escorted visit - probably quite right for the authorities to install measures to keep control of the potential influx of visitors, I'd say.
If we can't be there on the 1st, we'll be able to do the 2nd July, as far as I can see.
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On the 2nd. they were as indicated.
This is where they were when the attack was cancelled. The trenches were in a poor condition & the Batt. suffered casualties.
By the end of the month the Batt. had suffered 11 casualties (officers) & 234 Other Ranks.
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Thanks again. Much appreciated info.
Gives one pause for thought when you think that, if the attack had not been cancelled, our grandfathers might not have survived and we would not have been here today.
No words really, in the face of such randomness of fate.
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The attack eventually took place on the 3rd. Sept. 1916. I've amended the above map to show the objectives which were to take the German front & support trenches using 2 Coys. of the Batt.
They did achieve this but were forced to retire owing to the attack on their flank failing & allowing the Germans to bomb their positions.
This map is the one used by the Batt. C.O. showing their objectives which was the East KOYLI trench & the 2 trench systems beyond in R.19.c.
Out of the 450 men & officers that took part there were 350 casualties including all of the Officers.
You can understand why the men called it the meat grinder.
The Batt. C.O. called it "bad luck".
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Dear heavens! What a terrible thing!
Of course, as with most old soldiers, my grandfathers never mentioned their war experiences.
One once said " there are things you've seen, that you don't talk about..."
The other said that he didn't see much action, as he was attached as batman to a general ( probably an easy bit of fiction to avoid talking about the war)
Can I just ask to clarify: the losses of 350 put of 450 , was that from the 1st/5th Dukes?
Also, Jim, I am interested to know the source of your detailed information- is there a book on the subject or are there records available to view?
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All of the above is in regard to the 1/5th.
The info. & last map is from their C.O.'s war diary.
There is from time to time O R's mentioned but as I don't know who we are talking about I can't say if he's amongst them.
You'd be ok to visit these sites, it's Theipval Memorial & visitor centre that will be crowded.
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BUT Thiepval is such a truly evocative place to visit! All those names of men who have no final resting place - my granddad amongst them, just a name on a monument! :'( :'(
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Not just a name on a Monument. A name on the Monument.
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Sorry, Jim, I wasn't belittling Thiepval, but it only one of the many wonderfully evocative monuments/memorials - Menin Gate, Tyne Cot, and so many others, great and small.
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3rd Sept 1916 was Spen Valleys blackest day of war.Lots of the lads were in West Riding TF and were part of this attack.
There's a great thread on it with photos on the Great War Forum.
Ady
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If you haven't got a ticket you won't get within a few miles of Thiepval on 1 July - the French are implementing an exclusion zone that covers most of the key sites in the northern sector of the front. Presumably to allow the VIPs to do the tour without ISIS interference.
If you want to visit Thiepval Wood and the Schwaben Redoubt area I'd recommend avoiding 1 July and a day or two either side. And I'm sure your ancestor won't mind if you are a day or three late for the centenary.
I would also recommend contacting the Ulster Tower and booking a tour of Thiepval Wood - it's the only way to get into the wood and it's well worth getting into. And it's free (donations welcome and you'll be pleased to give one, the tour is superb).
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Newbury,
Many thanks for your input.
We're definitely going to delay our visit by a day or two. Don't want to get in the way of the official commemorations. The CWGC website suggests that from early on 2 July it should be possible to get to La Boiselle, Avulay and Thiepval woods, Mesnil and Authuille.
The tour of Thiepval woods sounds a really good focus point for the trip.
On previous occasions we have wandered around war grave areas fairly randomly but this time it looks that advanced planning would be a good idea.
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Also, Jim, I am interested to know the source of your detailed information- is there a book on the subject or are there records available to view?
The battalion's war diary can be downloaded from the National Archives website at a cost (£3.50) or, page by page, from Ancestry.
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Will be interested to have a look.
Thanks again.
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3rd Sept 1916 was Spen Valleys blackest day of war.Lots of the lads were in West Riding TF and were part of this attack.
There's a great thread on it with photos on the Great War Forum.
Ady
Mmm do you have a link to that thread?
One of my relatives died in October 1916 and I’m trying to learn as much about where they were and what they doing as another family member was also in the same regiment but survived till 1917
They were both from holmfirth and I know there were a lot more who sadly died from here too :-(
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http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/topic/36608-49th-west-riding-division/
There's a lot on forum about holmfirth by Tony Lund.
You may have to register.
Ady