RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => South Africa => Topic started by: Kerra on Tuesday 12 April 16 18:13 BST (UK)
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Thomas Gemmell [b1906/7 Scotland] and Esther Margaret Homan married on 23 Feb 1928 in Durban. Their address was 157A Goble Road, Durban. He described himself as a 'General Farmer'.
Would like to know if he was the son of Thomas Gemmell [b1853 Scotland] and Marion Armstrong? Thomas b1853 died in South Africa - Transvaal? - 28 Oct 1906 after sending his wife home to give birth in Scotland.
Looking for any information to fill gaps in family history.
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Hi
You can find Thomas senior's death record at this link :
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS92-BSG9-X?i=729&cat=188051 with a 6 month old son born in Edinburgh
Marion's DN is at
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS7R-S9HY-H?mode=g&i=928&cat=229462
place of death is 157a Goble Rd so I would say that clinches the connection! Her estate details are in the images following the DN, it includes her will which references a Grandson Robin and other members of her family
There is a DN for a Thomas Gemmell
MSCE 3468/1971 GEMMELL, THOMAS. BORN IN SCOTLAND. SSP ENID GEMMELL. (FORMERLY GALPIN, BORN LINGWOOD) 1971 1972
He may have remarried - this one is in the Natal Archives you would need to order a copy from them as this year is not available on line
Regards
Gillian
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Thank you! I am very grateful for this.
Thomas senior was a brother of one of my great, great, grandmothers. He went to South Africa to Kimberley to 'mine' with two other friends. He was reputed to have been a gold prospector for DeBeers at the time of his death - he brought diamonds back to Scotland which were made into brooches and rings - they are still in the family.
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Thomas and Margaret's marriage, there is an image attached
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KDCY-JP1
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Thank you too! All help gratefully received
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There is a marriage for a Thomas Gemmell in 1940. Perhaps a family member somewhere along the line. The estimated birth year is incorrect as the grooms age is given as 30....
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KDZ9-HDP image attached
They were married in Vryheid in Natal but he was resident in Brakpan and his occupation is given as Assayer.
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Marion Armstrong Gemmell's grave
http://www.eggsa.org/library/main.php?g2_itemId=1098526
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Another Thomas Gemmell maybe!
Hopefully someone will be able to shed light on his origins ... I love how when you think you have solved a puzzle another appears ...
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Gravestone photo - thank you .
Marion Armstrong was supposed to be the daughter of a blacksmith, born Stirlingshire, Scotland.
He was reputed to have emigrated with his family to Australia and then to South Africa. Two of Marion's brothers were apparently sugar planters in Natal, one of whom was said to be unmarried - maybe that is William on the gravestone..
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If you have more information I can try and find out....
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I have found the Death Notice for Marion's brother William, he was indeed unmarried and a sugar planter and there are 7 siblings listed with parents William and Elizabeth. The Armstrong name appears among the pioneers of the sugar industry in Natal.
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I have had a look at the will for William and he seems to have left everything to his one brother Robert a sum of more 143 thousand pounds. In 1925 that was an enormous amount of money. I also notice that it took until 1950 to settle, 25 years. I wonder if the rest of the family contested the will..
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I've had a look at Robert Armstrong's will, died 1941, also a sugar farmer and miller but he had money invested all over, the brother who inherited from William, he mentions a Tom Gemmell born in 1906 as his nephew and living in Vryheid. His file is a large one.....
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Robert and Grace Alice Armstrong
http://www.eggsa.org/library/main.php?g2_itemId=669259
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I am overwhelmed with what you are finding! Amazing thank you.
My original source for Thomas Gemmell b1854 and his son b1906/7 was a handwritten note written by a cousin of my father's many years ago. Some years ago I have searched for Marion Armstrong's birth in Scotland but could find no trace. I found a likely marriage of a William Armstrong and an Elizabeth Shearer 15 Jul 1853 in Kippen Stirlingshire which matches up with 1851 Census which has a William Armstrong, who was a blacksmith in Kippen; I had thought that they were possibles for Marion's parents. As I mentioned earlier, Marion's parents were supposed to have emigrated from Stirlingshire to Australia first so maybe she was born there?
The will is also interesting. Marion and son Thomas were in Scotland but are supposed to have returned to South Africa during WW1 to stay with her two brothers. My source wrote 'Tom was said to be the heir to the unmarried Armstrong uncle.' So maybe the will was contested.
Marion must have had some wealth as she had a nurse/nanny for her son.
Thomas b.1906/7 wrote to my great uncle at some point - in the early 1930s I think - wanting to come back to Scotland but was advised that farming was difficult in the depression.
Where is Vryheid? Is is near Durban?
Thomas senior was a trooper in the Scottish Horse during Boer War. That is an avenue of research for me next - I have his service number and he apparently received some medals. My source wrote 'was a guide as he knew the country well between Kimberley and J'burg. He was said to have been in J'burg, drilling with Uitlanders at the time of the Jameson Raid.'
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I can download and let you have those wills etc if you like. The Death Notices for both list siblings and children. The name "Shearer" appears in one of the childrens names as a middle name.
Vryheid is in Natal, but it about a 3-4 hour drive from Durban towards the Midlands of Natal.
Thomas Gemmell is mentioned as Robert Armstrong's nephew in his will.
As I said William, unmarried, left everything to his youngest brother Robert, and Tom only got a stipend from Robert when he died....
Lots of money, the family would have been considered well off...
Williams estate is only a few pages, but Roberts file is very large.
Let me check on Thomas and the Boer war.....
Added:
Gemmell Thomas 365 Trooper 1st Battalion
Source: QSA Medal Rolls Scottish Horse
Gemmell Thomas 365 Corporal Served 04 Feb 01 to 06 Jun 01. Discharged J'B
Source: Nominal roll in WO127 Scottish Horse
Seems he got a promotion
Nominal Roll Image:
http://www.angloboerwar.com/unit-information/south-african-units/469-scottish-horse?showall=&start=1
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I do not want you to go to any bother! The little snippets that you have posted will be fine thank you.
I have just found a birth on family search for a Marion Armstrong in Victoria.
https://familysearch.org/search/collection/results?count=20&query=%2Bgivenname%3AMarion~%20%2Bsurname%3AArmstrong~%20%2Bbirth_place%3AAustralia~%20%2Bbirth_year%3A1855-1857~%20%2Bgender%3AF&collection_id=1770729
Some general questions.
What information do death certificates in South Africa give? Do they give dates of birth? Are they accessible for searching/buying?
Yes that is the Thomas Gemmell 365 I was thinking was 'ours'. Going to have a look at the link now.
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The death notices give full name, place of birth, parents, spouse, date of death and children or siblings in the case of unmarried folk.
If the person filling in the death notice is on the ball then you can even get the spouses of the children's names and sometimes grandchildren.
It's no bother I can let you have only the death notices if you like, no need to order them.... pm me you email and I'll get them off to you.
That looks like the right one. Same parents for the two boys, so definite match...
The boys seem to have been with the pioneers of the sugar industry in Natal, there is a Gillespie Street in Durban and an Armstrong Drive in the suburb of La Lucia, Durban. Victoria County was what is now part of the northern suburbs of Durban across the Umgeni River.
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I have Thomas, senior, and Marion's Death Notices which another RootsChatter kindly sent to me. I was just wondering if the information given on all death notices was always so informative.
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I have Robert and William's
They are if the information is available and the person giving the information know parents etc. Some are not so well filled in.
Williams gives his siblings names and Robert his children
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Hi Kerra
You can find all the records mentioned in this post by going to NAAIRS site and getting the reference numbers (http://www.national.archives.gov.za/naairs_content.htm }and then following the links in these two posts
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=742221.0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=742327.0
you just need to open the year folder and jump around the images until you find the appropriate document - that way you can download as much of the Gemmell and Armstrong files you are interested in. I had a look at some of the other Thomas Gemmell records - it would appear to be from a different family.
Also you could probably scan the gravestones on eggsa.com to see if there are any other stones for the family
If Thomas and hie mother travelled from the UK to SA you should be able to find their shiping records either on ancestry.com or findmypast.com
Regards Gillian
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Don't know whether 3sd has looked at this, but 'Valiant Harvest - the Founding of the South African Sugar Industry 1848-1926' by Rbt F Osborn, 1964 (great book, available on abebooks), includes details of Central Factory, Verulam, 1871-1946 on p.239 ...
<i>... In 1892 the original owners of the estate were bought out by the Armstrong Brothers, WG, GS, and James. Some twelve months later WG Armstrong bought out his brothers, and carried on the business with the help of another brother, Robert, who succeeded to the estate when WG died in 1925. A private company was now formed entitled Central Factory (Pty) Ltd which, in 1946, was absorbed into the Tongaat Sugar Co Ltd. ...</i>
Whole page gives more detail of the refinery and its location ... will pm.
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...... and from the same source .....
p.200
Regarding The Zululand Sugar Millers & Planters Ltd, 1911 on, established by George Armstrong and his son Athol, etc ...
<i>... George Armstrong was born in Australia, and came to Natal in 1860 at the age of five. He was caught in the South African diamond fever of 1876, and after varying fortunes, purchased the Central Sugar Factory at Verulam. Soon after he sold this concern to his brother, departed for America, but returned to Natal after the South African War. In 1910 he was a member of parliament for Victoria County.</i>
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That was a very interesting read.
I have visited almost all of the places mentioned. Sadly most of the sugar cane is disappearing along the North Coast in favour of development.
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Thank you Sue you just unearthed a gem for me. My grandfather WP Austin 3212 was in the Scottish Horse during the Boer War. You found the Nominal Roll for this unit to show a Thomas Gemmell. I searched under A and look what I found http://www.angloboerwar.com/unit-information/south-african-units/469-scottish-horse?showall=&start=1 W Austin served with Thomas Gemmell.
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Glad you found some more information. ;) :D
Seems he was also Thomas' CO......
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I have been reviewing all the information which my original post has generated. Thank you all again.
I know nothing about the Boer War so that is an area for future research - I prefer reading actual book as opposed to articles on line so will track down books in local library as well as printing the information on the web site mentioned above.
Marion's will was so detailed - took me ages to go through everything. It was the first evidence that I had come across that Thomas jnr had a son Robin. Maybe I have living Gemmell relatives in South Africa... Thomas's sister Margaret mentioned in his will is my gt grandmother.
One query on his death - I would be grateful if anyone can name the 'farm' and the 'district' given on his death notice, and give me an idea of where they are. Maybe his grave will turn up sometime.
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The farm is Rietvlei and the District is Boshof
You can try here for grave searches
www.eggsa.org
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Great!
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sorry should have mentioned it was in the Free State.
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Thanks to Google I have found it on maps - thank you
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Hi, This is my paternal grandfather. He and Esther Homan were divorced. They had one son, Robert Thomas Gemmell (deceased). My father, married Joan Kelly and sired three children: Michael Robert Gemmell DOB 16.05.1953. Then I was born - Marilyn Patricia Gemmell (DOB 13.09.1954) followed by Melinda Joan Gemmell; her date of birth is 26.10.1958.
My Grandfather subsequently married Enid and they were married until their death. Both passed away in Stanger; a town on the North Coast of Kwa Zulu Natal. I was approximately 17 years of age at the time of their deaths (1971).
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Forgot to mention that I was given to understand that my mother was going to name me Marion after my great grandmother (Armstrong) but opted for Marilyn instead. I do believe that the Armstrong's (Sugar Farmer's) are somehow related. My father was an only son of an only son as is my brother and his son Byron. I am no so well acquainted with the longer term family history but am enjoying the time spent on this site.
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Thank you. Been doing very little Family research recently - need to get back to it.