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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Shropshire => England => Shropshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: SByrne on Wednesday 08 June 16 21:45 BST (UK)
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Hi everyone,
I'm hoping someone can help me track down Sarah Sutton. I have her marriage to William Arrowsmith in Fauls in the Immanuel Church in July, 1876. This lists her age as 28, currently living in Sandford and her father is listed as a William Sutton, Labourer. She moved to Liverpool after her marriage and on all census from that point on her place of birth is listed as Ash, Shropshire.
But I can't seem to track her down before 1876. Would anyone help me out? It would be very much appreciated!
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Duplicated thread.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=749985.0;topicseen
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GenUKI says:
ASH MAGNA, (and Ash Parva) townships in the parish of Whitchurch
Whitchurch was a parish in Wem Registration District from 1837 until 1852.
So this birth registration looks likely?
September qtr 1847
Wem Registration District vol 18, page 170
Sutton, Sarah
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Hi
Possible in 1871
Chester: St Oswalds: 12 St Annes Rd
Martha Hopwood hd ? 76 Annuitant bn Prees Shropshire
Martha Sides niece 39 " " "
Mary J Sides Great niece " Whiston Lancashire
SARAH SUTTON unm. 25 servant bn ASH SHROPSHIRE
Class: RG10; Piece: 3733; Folio: 32; Page: 5
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Right think I may have found something in 1851. Anc* have the family headed by the mother Elizabeth Sutton, but on the page before William Sutton is listed as Ag Lab on a farm managed by a Samuel Hares, all living in ASH PARVA
William Sutton serv lotters 32 Ag lab bn Prees Shropshire
Class: HO107; Piece: 1995; Folio: 606; Page: 15
Next Page
Elizabeth Sutton wife 38 bn Salop Prees
Mary dau 8 " " Whitchurch
SARAH " 6 "
Thomas son 1 "
plus lodger 33 year old Harriett Gregory
Class: HO107; Piece: 1995; Folio: 607; Page: 16
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1861 census this SARAH SUTTON is a servant with the HARES family again, headed by a Thomas HARES, in Millenheath
Sarah Sutton 16 unm house servant bn Whitchurch Shrops.
Class: RG 9; Piece: 1888; Folio: 76; Page: 9
There is however another Sarah Sutton born Broughton, in the correct area with father William, mother Jane. This William was not a labourer, but a Wheelwright, employing men in a later census, so maybe not the Sarah you seek.
claire
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This birth also possible to fit in with earlier censuses:
Births June quarter 1845
Sarah Sutton Wem 18 199
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Thanks so much Claire, KGarrad chempat and apologies for the duplicate post! That's all fascinating. I had noticed the Sarah Sutton of Broughton before but something just didn't seem right - I'm sure a Wheelwright would not have been put on her marriage certificate as a Labourer?
The Hares connection I had never come across before and that's very interesting. Could it be Sarah lied about her age on the marriage certificate and that's throwing me off? It feels like a knot I can't untie.
Thank you again, this is all invaluable help!
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She could lie about her age, as is a few years older than husband, instead of just 1 year as claimed?
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Yes William may not have like being a bit of a toyboy ;D ;D
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That's what I'm thinking, but I wonder if there's a way to verify it or at least come close?
Another reason I have to believe she might not be the Broughton Sarah, I have a photograph of her with a woman I believe to be a sister (they also seem very close in age, almost twins). Perhaps this could be Mary Sutton in the census you found.
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Have you followed Mary through her life ? did she end up in Liverpool ?
Did any of them possibly leave Wills that would mention any of the family ?
What about Sarah's death ? Wonder what age she was on that ?
It is difficult because the 'other' Sarah is the right age, but wrong place, whereas 'your' Sarah is wrong age , right place ::)
What about the witnesses on the marriage certificate? were they relations ?
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Well, her burial record still gives a birthyear c1849 :(
Sarah ARROWSMITH of 30 Chrysostom Street, Liverpool buried 10 March 1921, aged 72 years, at Garston, St Michael.
The family were at this address in a census
claire
EDIT: THIS WOULD BE THE CORRECT AGE ~WOULDN'T IT ;D ;D ;D
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Hi Claire,
Thanks so much for the advice, that's all so helpful. The marriage certificate actually lists William's sister and her future husband as witnesses, which doesn't help here too much. Her father is listed as a Labourer though, and Sarah is listed as resident in Sandford.
You beat me to it in terms of her burial record. I don't have her death certificate but it does seem if she had lied about her age, it would have been continued right through till her death. Perhaps her death certificate would help, I will order it to find out. In terms of following Mary to see where she ends up - that's a great idea I hadn't thought of. I'm very determined to solve the mystery!
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The death certificate will say she's 72, but it is looking likely to be her. Will have a see what I can see for Mary and the brother Thomas.
Shame about the witnesses not being more help.
I've been looking at the burial records for St Michaels Garston, and from 1877 onwards there were quite a few 'baby' Arrowsmith burials, I wonder if she lost a few children too.
claire
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Thank you so much, so kind of you! Yes, perhaps that might hold the key to finding out for sure if this is really her. Perhaps also I could order the birth certificate for the Sarah born in 1845.
I know that she lost at least one child, Annie. One of her sons William, was also tragically killed in WWI.
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I can see 3 potential marriages of a Mary Sutton, just trying to find them on a census to rule them out :o
The babies that died were: William Frederick aged 5 from Argyle Street buried 16 Dec 1882 ( I think they were at that address, it seems familiar)
Thomas G aged 2 buried Feb 3rd 1882, from Argyle Street
Annie buried 6 Nov 1888 aged 18 months from 30 Chrysostom Street
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Thank you so much for finding them for me. Hopefully Mary can prove the key to proving I have the right Sarah - I'm starting to feel that this is her. I wonder if there are baptism records for her. I know she was married at the Immanuel Church is Fauls and they were a CofE family.
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Can't do much yet, I'm at work but will have a look later :)
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BAPTISMS:
At Prees
Mary daughter of William & ELizabeth bpt. 21 Nov. 1842 , abode: Darlaston, father: labourer
Whitchurch Ash district:
Sarah dau of William and Betsy bpt. 24 April 1845, abode: Ash Acres, father: labourer
Can't find a baptism for Thomas, but did find this, Thomas's marriage, he was living in Lancashire.
23 May 1876 Prees
Thomas Sutton 26 bach. wheelwright of Clayton Lancashire. Father: William Sutton~ labourer
Elizabeth Fox 24 spins. of Green Lane. Father: John Fox~ bootmaker
Witnesses: SARAH SUTTON and Thomas Leech.
claire
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Thank you so much Claire, that's fascinating.
When I saw Sarah listed as a witness at Thomas wedding my heart sank as my first thought was that it couldn't be her, she was married by then. After quickly checking, her marriage to William Arrowsmith wasn't until July 20th, so she would indeed still be Sarah Sutton. Fascinating.
I'm feeling more confident that this must be her. Ash Magna/Parva/Acres are such small settlements, it seems unlikely they would be listed as her place of birth for her entire life if she was in fact from Broughton—even though they are quite close. I have found a birth registered 1845, Wem Shropshire for a Sarah Sutton. I feel confident this must be her.
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ASH ACRES the name of the abode at Sarah's baptism is where they were living in the 1851 census
Mary is proving to be quite difficult to pin down
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Think I have Mary
Mary Sutton married James Owen WEM district 1869, can't find a transcript.
1871 WALES census: Montgomeryshire Welshpool: High Street
James Owen hd mar. 28 boot at Royal Oak bn: Shropshire Yorton
Mary wf " 28 " " Prees
1881 Same town, same address
James 38 a bootman at hotel, Mary 37 bn Prees Shrops.
CHILDREN: SARAH ELIZABETH 9, Mary 8, Martha Ann 8, Florence 1 ~all born Wales,
1891 Denbighshire Denbigh: 6 Hennllan Place
James 49 hotel porter, Mary 48 bn Prees Shrops, Mary 18 dau.
1901 Denbighshire Denbigh: 9 Hennllan Place
James 59 hotel porter, Mary 58 born SANDFORD Shropshire, Sarah Elizabeth Maund 28 married daughter plus husband George William Maund and their son George Leslie Maund 8months.
In the last available census the MAUND family are in Liverpool ;D
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Wow, thank you for all your hard work! That looks like it could be her. Interesting that Mary's daughter is named Sarah Elizabeth - that would be her mother and her sisters names!
In one of the only image I have of Sarah, her and her sister are holding two babies that look almost identical. I wonder if Mary's two girls, Martha Ann and Mary were twins.
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It's posssible isn't it, I'm not sure of what the registration districts are in Wales, and I'm afraid I'm going to have to leave it for now. It's getting a bit late ;D ;D
I'm pretty sure it's the right family :)
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Well thank you so much and good night! You've hopefully helped me knock down a very tough brick wall in my research of Sarah and her family. :D
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You're very welcome ;D ;D
Claire
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Just looking back at the photograph of Sarah and her sister and noticed that at the bottom of the photograph, the photo studio it was taken in is named as J Anderson Photo of Welshpool and that 1871 Wales Census you found places Mary Sutton in Welshpool. The clue was in front of me the whole time!
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I thoroughly enjoyed helping you with your search, I'm glad we managed to find them, regardless of having the answer right infront of you :D ;D ;D