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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Sussex => Topic started by: treeshaker on Tuesday 21 June 16 09:28 BST (UK)
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Greetings from Canada, this is my first post. My great, great aunt's husband is buried, along with his second wife, in the Hove Cemetery (south side) and I am wondering if there is anyone in the area who might be willing to see what is recorded on their headstone(s) and/or take a photo. The kind folks at Woodvale have advised that the grave location is Section RD Number 47. Their particulars are:
William Henry Vincent Albert Mondelet, buried on 18 October 1921 aged 76
Elizabeth Mondelet, buried on 13 February 1942 aged 76
William Henry Mondelet was a medical doctor/surgeon (obstetrics) who lived and worked in Brighton and Hove during the years 1894-1921. His wife, Elizabeth, at the time of her death was a Nursing Home Proprietress at 45 Norton Road, Hove.
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Hi treeshaker
Welcome to Rootschat ;D
Have the staff also confirmed that there was or still is a headstone on the plot?
Dawn
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Hi Dawn,
The Woodvale staff did not mention if there was/still is a headstone on the plot, only that they "have searched our records and found that both William and Elizabeth Mondelet are indeed buried in our Hove cemetery (South side) in the same grave. Their grave number is section RD, number 47".
They also said "If you would like one of the staff to go out to the cemeteries and take a photo of the grave, you will need to formally request it.... there is a fee for this service", so perhaps they wouldn't know if there is a headstone on the plot or not until they actually went out to the cemetery to check? I see that the fee for them to go out and take a picture would be 21 pounds for the first person named and 14 pounds for an additional person named so that would be 35 pounds total which translates to nearly $66 CDN. If I need to, I guess I could go with that option but I thought I would check on this forum first to see if there was anyone residing in the Brighton/Hove vicinity that has done or might take a personal interest in doing this sort of thing.
PS: The Woodvale staff did include a link to an overview map of the two Hove cemeteries and stated "Section JD is on the bottom section" (but perhaps "JD" was a typo as they had already said the grave was in section RD). Maybe I should get them to clarify the section as well as ask them if they know whether a grave marker was/is in place without actually going out to the cemetery? Thanks for your interest and response Dawn.
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I don't know if it is possible for anyone on the Suusex Board to visit on your behalf, but I had hoped the cemetery could tell you whether a headstone had been erected before someone goes on a wild goose chase and there is nothing there. Seems the cemetery may not have up to date records showing a headstone or not.
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Hi and welcome
It might be worth contacting the Sussex Family History Group as they have transcribed a lot of monumental inscriptions for various cemeteries in the area. Membership is c£12 a year so not expensive. They may also have members in the area who can help.
http://www.sfhg.org.uk
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Thanks for your replies Dawn and sillgen, the Sussex Family History Group will be worth checking into!
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Just a thought, as they are both buried in the same plot then if there is a monument/headstone then that will identify both persons so I'd think only the initial fee would be applicable. I'd think the further person fee is if they are in a different grave.
Definitely sensible to clarify which section they meant, JD or RD, as they are likely to be some ways apart.
Even if there isn't a monument or headstone then a photo of the grave site is worth having to add to their records in your files, I've done that with several of my ancestors.
If you want a plan of the cemetery Google Brighton & Hove cemetery, click on Family history research of burial & cremation records | Brighton.... goes to Live events & communities. Click Cemeteries on left hand side, click Hove cemetery, scroll down to Hove cemetery, Old Shoreham Road and click on A sectional plan of Hove cemeteries is available to view (PDF879KB). Sorry couldn't get direct page URL. Area JD is near the Old Shoreham Road just to the right of the centre line and RD near the top left hand corner immediately next to the Old Shoreham Road.
www.bing.com/maps aerial view gives you a good idea of how many graves had monuments/headstones in each area.
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Thank you artifis, some good information. I contacted Woodvale again and they clarified/confirmed the section as RD number 47 and also said their records do not indicate whether there is or isn't a memorial stone. Yes, on the cemetery map I see section RD is on the south side immediately next to the Old Shoreham Road. And thanks for your suggestion, through Bing/Google maps I was able to see both an aerial view and a street view of section RD. The Google street view especially gives a real sense of walking along the footpath and looking over the low wall right onto the graves in section RD, so close but alas (I am) so far away.. in Canada! Before I consider requesting Woodvale to go out to take a photo (and you're right since they are buried in the same plot there would likely be only the initial fee) I will, as sillgen suggested, also contact the Sussex Family History Group to inquire about membership and what that might provide, as perhaps they would take a photo and have other information about my ancestors as well.
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Interesting that many of the plots alongside the pathway appear to be north-south orientated rather than east-west. Also interesting that some appear to be either family plots or double burials with the graves alongside one another rather than one above the other. You might therefore be lucky and there is a headstone.
SFHG worth a try and if you have many ancestors in Sussex the annual membership fee gives you unlimited access to all its baptisms/burials in its parish records on line. Its marriage index is currently on CD only.
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Hi,
If you're OK waiting for a couple of weeks I'll go and have a look for you but it would be after we break up for the School holidays ... I'm a teacher and it's a bit busy at the moment! If no one else gets there before - I can go during the week beginning 11th July - I live just over the Downs and am often down that way so it wouldn't be a problem (I know the cemetery well!).
Liz :)
PS Definitely become a member of SFHG though if you have an interest in Sussex ancestors!
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artifis, thanks for your further input, much appreciated.
Liz, that is just wonderful! Thank you so very much for your offer to go to the cemetery and of course I don't mind waiting at all until it's convenient for you, I couldn't have hoped for anything better! I do hope there is a gravestone there for you to discover. I'm sure William Mondelet would have had prestige among the community. I did find an Aug 2, 1913 article in the British Medical Journal (annual meeting notes) giving details about his being part of a group of 20 people who embarked from Brighton on a 4-hr cruise over to Boulogne, France for a ceremony with other (French) medical men. Once there, they met at the town hall, sipped champagne and Dr Mondelet of Hove expressed sentiments (in French) on behalf of those who had made the voyage.
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That sounds very promising treeshaker, someone of his importance in the community is certainly likely to have had either a memorial or a headstone.
I don't know what Brighton & Hove Council's approach is but unfortunately a many cemeteries if a headstone or monument starts to lean it is taken down for 'safety' and either stored in a spot remote from the grave or thrown away. Seeing from the aerial and birds eye views there does seem to be lot of headstones and monuments still standing and I know it's the same for the cemeteries surrounding the crematoria off Lewes Road when my mother and father in law lie.
The parish church where my ancestors from the early 1700s are buried has a policy of clearing any 'suspected' unsafe headstone/monument and simply throwing them away, all in the drive to get a flat area that can be mown by sit on motor mowers. They're also interring cremation remains over older burials - some only 75 years old - and taking down monuments/headstones to facilitate this. Shame for ancestry researchers now and in the future - this church under its current rector seems to have a totally cavalier attitude to its predecessors.
I will be interested to see what Liz can find as I have a friend just starting on her family research who has ancestors buried there for several generations.
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Hello treeshaker,
My gt gt grandmother is buried in this area of Hove cemetery (died 1903). Three of her children are buried with her. I enquired about the grave when I lived in Hove. Like you, the council gave me the plot numbers and a map but they don't hold information on gravestones.
I went to visit and was astounded to find a beautiful monument with much writing on it. Hove cemetery has some wonderful monuments and it is fascinating to spend time there looking round. There are some very interesting people buried there. I used to think it would be good material for a book. I had plans but they came to nothing.
One recommendation would be that whoever goes to look and take a photo needs to have the official cemetery map with them.
Jo.
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artifis, how unfortunate that some old monuments are being removed and/or thrown away as in the case of the parish church you mentioned, I do hope your ancestors' headstones which go back to the early 1700's still remain, what a treasure.
Jo, what a wonderful experience that must have been when you visited Hove south cemetery and discovered a beautiful monument with much writing to your gt gt grandmother and three of her children. If you would have written that book about some of the interesting people buried at Hove, which no doubt would likely have included photos of their monuments, how I would have loved to have read it! If not a full book, perhaps you will still put something together at some point?
The RD section where the Mondelets are buried does look (from the aerial and street view photos) like it has a lot of monuments still standing and it will be great to hear what Liz discovers when she goes there in a couple of weeks.
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Hello treeshaker,
Yes, I was amazed to find the monument, plus the fact three of her children were buried with her. It was good to send photos to her descendants in New Zealand.
I wondered whether you had pursued other sources of information on your ancestors. I should think there must be some information in the Susses Archives. Also, as a prominent person, have you found an obituary for him?
Jo.
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Thanks Jo, although I am now registered online with the Keep, the only thing that comes up in a search for "Mondelet" is a Deed of Covenant permitting William Henry Mondelet to practise as a surgeon in Brighton (dated 30 Jan 1906). I imagine there may have been mention of him in the Brighton/Hove newspapers over the years and possibly an obituary but it looks like newspapers can only be viewed on microfilm in person. On Ancestry I've found his 1884 London marriage to Elizabeth Elsie Payne, so far no record of them on 1891 census, on 1901 census he and Elizabeth are living in Brighton at 9 St George's Place (including a servant named Annie Marriette), on 1911 census they are living in Hove at 3 Blatchington Road. I did find an 1894 Obstetrical Society London mention where he was elected as a Fellow of the Society his address being 1 Gladstone Terrace, Brighton. Also found on Ancestry his death index of 1921 (4th quarter) and the 10 Feb 1942 death record for Elizabeth Mondelet with mention from her 1940 will that she is a Nursing Home Proprietress at 45 Norton Road, Hove and wishes to be buried at Hove Cemetery with late husband William Henry Mondelet. That is what led me to posting on here to see if I might find someone who could take a photo of their gravesite hopefully with a headstone still standing and will await Liz's findings on that in a couple weeks. Thanks for your interest and input.
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It is a small world as my ancestors lived a little further along Blatchington Road, Hove, for some years!
There should be an obituary for William Mondelet. The street directories which are online for some years, show he lived at 3 Blatchington Road until 1918 at least.
I live a long distance from Hove at the moment but in the event I return for a visit, I will see what I can find for you.
Jo.
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Jo, it sure is a small world with your ancestors having lived a little further along Blatchington Road in Hove. If that was during the time that the Mondelets also lived there, then perhaps they even knew each other! And thanks, it would be great if you were able to find an obituary for William Mondelet (in the event you ever returned to Hove). His burial date was 18 October 1921 so, if an obituary does exist, it would likely have been published around that time and would hopefully give his death date among other info. Once Liz goes to the cemetery, and if a headstone exists, it might have his actual death date as well.
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Found it! Will post more later and let you have photos when I get home ;D
Liz
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Hi,
I found myself over Hove way at lunch time so called in at the Cemetery and it was really very easy to find the Mondelet grave. It is large and unusual in that it has never had a headstone as such - rather the shield shaped stone which is supported by a block on the actual grave. The lead letters are not very robust and some have become misshapen, but I think you can read all it says quite clearly. The date of death is definitely 1921 even though the number 1 is missing, the mark on the stone is unmistakable. Also, the first E of Mondelet is written as a B for some reason? The grave is sited North-South.
I took 8 photos in all and if you send me a PM with your email address I can email them to you.
Liz (in sunny Sussex 8) )
PS I have just taken a screenshot from one of the photos - they are better than that!
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Liz, that's wonderful that you found the grave and what an interesting marker. Yes, I will send you a PM with my email address as I am anxious to see all the photos you took. Thanks so much once again, the forum is wonderful and thanks to all who have been so helpful!
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Hi
Just come across this post so sorry for being so uselessly late. I live just around the corner from Hove cemetery so if anyone wants any photos just let me know.
Denis
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Hi Denis
That's a kind and generous offer.
You may want to start a separate topic on the Sussex Resources board where it will be seen by others who aren't specifically reading this topic now it has got to 3 pages.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/sussex-resources-offers/
Dawn
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Hullo Treeshaker; I don't know if you will see my post on this old thread.
You couldn't find your William Mondelet in the 1891 census, but I have a precise location for him. Between 1890 and 1891 he was living in private living quarters, attached to a livery stable at 186 Lewes Road, presumably with his wife - your great, great aunt. This I glean from the street directories - see http://mhms.org.uk/directories/pages-1891-image-203. These were adjacent to Gladstone Terrace where you have found him in 1894. He actually moved to no. 1 Gladstone Terrace in 1892, and I last see him there in 1899. It seems that he was running a medical practice from the address, as in that year another surgeon was also living there, and subsequent surgeons are recorded over the years.
I hope this helps!
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Hi Anna
Welcome to Rootschat ;D
Treeshaker hasn't been online here since 2016.
As they didn't reply to the last replies, they won't get an email notification that you have posted but I can send a personal message and hope they come back soon.
Dawn
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Thank you Dawn, that would be much appreciated. I did see no activity from Treeshaker since 2016, but presumably because I am new here I cannot send PMs. Thank you for doing this on my behalf :-)
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I know that new members don't always come back here as soon as you have after their 1st post.
You do have enough posts now to be able to send a personal message if you want to.
http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
Happy hunting.
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Thank you BrightonAnna for that great piece of information and for including the link to the street directory page, it's now another little piece of the puzzle I can add to my Mondelet collection, so very much appreciated!