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Research in Other Countries => Canada => Topic started by: Valgenie on Thursday 28 July 16 15:45 BST (UK)
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We know Grandad died in Alberta (Calgary) on July 7, 1943, but do not know where he ever lived, to whom he was married Lillian G (someone) and that she died in 1960, but have no idea who she was or even who placed either of them in the grave...so to speak!!! Have sent away for the death certificate , received it, and it has very little information! Is there any way of finding out what he died of, who registered the death etc. etc. Help please !!!! (We are in England)
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Would you like to tell us the name of grandfather, date of birth etc - so that we can look to see what other information might be available ???
Sandra
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so sorry.....grandfather is James Milne Allan, dob October 21, 1877, Kelso, Scotland, seen on a ship's manifest on April 1921, travelling to Quebec, seen on census of 1921, then next known crossing the border for a day on November 5, 1941 from CALGARY TO Eastport, Idaho. Then known as as deceased (source Death Cert.) July 7, 1943.
Amazingly, there is a person (wife) ?? in the grave named Lillian G (and by coincidence his first wife was a Lilian one L who died in England in 1958) anyway second wife died in 1960.
Big Mystery...what had James been doing in Calgary all these years, and who was Lillian G and who knew them? Did they have any children?
V.
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Have you e-mailed The City of Calgary Cemeteries to see what information they hold on the two burials
http://www.calgary.ca/CSPS/Parks/Pages/Cemeteries/Queens-Park-Cemetery.aspx
Sandra
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Canada Form 30 A - 1921 - going to Dauphin Manitoba - Simpson and Mc?????
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/microform-digitization/006003-119.01-e.php?q2=5&q3=496&sqn=831&tt=5185&PHPSESSID=4l2ou4a3nnf264i9glpuv9dp30
Sandra
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Another poster with the same missing grandad -February 2012
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=579781.msg4328912#msg4328912
Sandra
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Amazingly, there is a person (wife) ?? in the grave named Lillian G (and by coincidence his first wife was a Lilian one L who died in England in 1958) anyway second wife died in 1960.
The banns for his marriage to Lilian in 1905 state he was a widower so it looks like wife no 3 in Canada ??? First marriage was 1902 Barton upon Irwell RD
First wifes death
Deaths Dec 1902
Allan Louisa 25 Barton I. 8c 443
She was Louisa Farrimond
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I have found a obituary for James Milne Allan as follows from the Calgary Herald
Allan July 7 James Milne Age 65 years beloved husband of Mrs..Lillian Allan 2206 14A St.W.
Service at the " Little Chapel on the Corner" Friday at 4. Rev Henry Room officiating. Jaques Funeral Home.
Lillian died Dec. 20, 1960 she is interred with James. Burial location is Sec A Block 10 Lot 36
Queens Park Cemetery Calgary. There is no obit for Lillian as she died after James and unless there was other family that is often the case.
Only information they have is date of internment.
If you have a Ancestry membership check the Voters Lists you can find his occupation and because the obit gives a address you should be able to track other places he may have lived in Calgary. The Voters lists are a bit of a hit and miss.
Lilybell
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Can't transcribe the 1911 census but James and Lillian with her sister Getrude Cryer (school mistress) are living at St Mervyn Spennithorne Rd Urmston - it shows a child
Sandra
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Christian Milnes Allan - St Mervyn Spennithorne Rd Urmston - baptised 1 January 1907 - Flixton, St Michael - father James Milne Allan and Mother's name Lilian Allan. 29 Albert Grove. Father was a salesman.
Sandra
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Christian Milner U Allan - Q2 Apr/May/June 1906 - Barton Lancs. 8c 683
Sandra
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Christian M M Allan married September 1932 - George M Pickard - Barton I - 8c 1586
Christian M U Pickard 1907 - passed away March 1948 - Harrow Greater London - 5f 361
Sandra
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Just spoke to the Alberta Archives in regards to death records for Alberta and you can request a long copy of James's death record.
Contact pao.gov.ab.ca. It is a 2 page form 1st page contains medical information and 2nd page is the actual death registration. Only fee involved is for the photo copying.
Records older than 50 years are open records.
When you contact the Archives give your name,contact info and name of person you are researching and his date of death.
Lilybell
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How brilliant everybody, especially about the obit...that is a real clue. Will keep persuing, we did know about the child by second marriage....namely Christian. Now to find out what the heck he was doing in Canada all those years. FYI, he left home one day and never came back, said he was going for cigarettes!!!!
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From Peels Prairie Provinces Henderson Directories Calgary
1930
Allan James M chf clk Man Rolling Mill Co Res 7013 18th Ave
1935
Same info as above but h 1615 16 St E
1939
Same as above
1940
Allan James M acct Man Rolling Mills h 708 15 St w
1943
Allan James M clk Calgary Rolling Mills h 2208 14A St S W
Info for Lillian Allan
1945 Allan Lillian seams H B Co 1235 12 Ave w
1949
Mrs. Lillian Allan seams HBC r 1619 14 Ave W
1952
Mrs. Lillian Allan seams H Williams 1619 14 Ave W
No records found for James Allan before 1930 in Calgary
Lilybell
Lilybell
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https://therecents-d0a57e093a6c32.sharepoint.com/Calgary1939-2001V3/default.aspx#Tile=Calgary1939-2001&View=Calgary1939-2001%20List
This is a pay site but there is an obituary for a Lillian Gordon Allan that you can obtain whose death was in 1960.
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The Calgary Herald- Google News
Allan December 16 Mrs. Lillian Gordon Allan aged 74 years beloved mother of Mrs. Willard ('Rene') Neilson 1623 14 Ave. SW
Services at "The Little Chapel on the Corner" JACQUES Funeral Home Tuesday at 2:15 p.m. Ven. C Swanson officiating.
Lilybell
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Hi,
Just adding on to lilybell's find, there is an expanded obit. for Lillian Dec. 17, 1960. It adds that she
was born in Manchester, England and came to Calgary 31 years ago, also survived by a sister and
brother in England.
Page 42,
https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=Hx6RvaqUy9IC&dat=19601217&printsec=frontpage&hl=en
Cheers,
DB
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Hi,
I wonder if (Rene) is actually Irene. From the Calgary Directories 1931, 1615-16th St. E
address for James there is also an Irene. She stays at that address with James until 1939.
http://peel.library.ualberta.ca/bibliography/2961.26/252.html?qid=peelbib%7Callan+irene%7C%28peelnum%3A002961.26%29%7Cscore
Cheers,
DB
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Billion Graves - Willard J Neilson, Calgary (Queens Park Village) Cemetery, Calgary Alberta. 1911-1990
https://billiongraves.com/grave/Willard-J-Neilson/14623851
and his wife Irene K - 1909 - 2002
Sandra
Added Photograph of a young Willard James Nielson on anc.
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Sorry that I have not been back before to say a huge "Thank you" to all you wonderful folks, my computer was converting to Windows 10, but I am back now and very thankful. Here in England we have been looking for Lillian with 2L's, and think perhaps she and James knew each other before he went off to Canada......stay tuned!!
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In case you haven't seen this ...
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=allan&GSfn=james&GSmn=m&GSbyrel=all&GSdy=1943&GSdyrel=in&GScntry=10&GSob=n&GRid=113170313&df=all&
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Excellent Sandra :) so it is Irene.
There is an Incoming Canadian passenger list on the ship Minnedosa from Liverpool to
Quebec arriving Nov. 22, 1929.
Allan, Lilian age 43 married, b. Manchester, going to husband James Allan, 115 Dorchester
Ave., Selkirk, Man. In Canada before between 1921 -1929 Selkirk, Man.
Allan, Irene age 19, b. Manchester.
UK Outward passenger list shows their last address in UK as c/o Mrs. Knop, 34 Carlton Rd.
Ashton, Ches.
I checked to see if there were a Lilian/Irene on James' passenger list in 1921, but I didn't
spot any.
I also think there is a good possibility that they knew each other before.
Cheers,
DB
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Hi,
Another Incoming Canadian passenger list on the Montroyal from Liverpool to Quebec
arriving July 9, 1926. She is alone this time.
Allan, Lilian age 39, wife, b. Eccles, England, going to husband James, Dorchester Ave.
Selkirk, Man. In Canada before between 1921-1926, Dorchester Ave., Selkirk, nearest relative
from whence you came mother Mrs. Knox, 34 Carlton Road, Ashton on Mersey
UK Outward passenger list shows her last address as 34 Carlton Rd., Ashton on Mersey.
Cheers,
DB
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Hi,
In August 1908 Lillian Gordon Knox married Walter Dowd in the St. Silas Parish, Manchester.
Her father is William Knox.
Canadian Passenger Form 30A on the Minnedosa arriving July 1921, Lilian Gordon Dowd age 34,
widow, b. Eccles, shopkeeper, to be married, going to fiance Neepawa, Manitoba. Nearest relative
from whence you came, father William E. Knox, 34 Carlton Rd, Sale, Cheshire.
Cheers,
DB
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Well done DB - just ahead of me on those ;D
Sandra
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Birth registered as Lily Gorton Knox Sept 1886 Barton L
1891 census for Ardwick Lancashire William 28, Emily 25 and children Lily G 4 and Frederick P 1
Surname Knox
Walter Dowd died in 1918. 1911 British census for Newton Health North Manchester shows Lillian with Walter and daughter Irene (1)
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Canada, Ocean Arrivals (Form 30A), 1919-1924 - Irene Dowd - 1912 Miles Platting- arrived 20 July 1921 - on the Minesdosa - grandfather William Knox - 34 Carlton Rd Sale Cheshire. Destined to Neepawa Manitoba.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miles_Platting
Sandra
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England, Andrews Newspaper Index Cards, 1790-1976 for Irene Dowd - 2 June 1946.
Sandra
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Probate for Walter passed away 5 December 1918 - Probate 24 January 1919
Sandra
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- just ahead of me on those ;D
I was kinda hoping you weren't out tending the herd when I couldn't figure out it was Knox,
not Knop. ;D ;D
It appears James didn't have a hankering for Canadian cigarettes, but a new life.
Cheers,
DB
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1921 census - 1st Street Town of Neepawa Manitoba
James M Allan born Scotland. Aged 43 years - Cafe Prop - lodging with the Farrell Family. Imm 1921.
Sandra
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Hi,
Just adding on to lilybell's find, there is an expanded obit. for Lillian Dec. 17, 1960. It adds that
she
was born in Manchester, England and came to Calgary 31 years ago, also survived by a sister and
brother in England.
Page 42,
https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=Hx6RvaqUy9IC&dat=19601217&printsec=frontpage&hl=en
Cheers,
DB
The brothers of Lillian Gordon Knox - Frederick Pinnington Knox - 26 August 1887 - 7 January 1952 Manchester Lancashire - 10e 447- preceded her in death.
William Edward Knox - 1894 - September 1967 Bucklow Cheshire. 10a 120
and sister Louie Knox - 2 September 1900 - August 1985 - Trafford Manchester. Vol - 39 - 1759
Her father William Edward Knox 1868 passed away September 1947 - 10b 88
Sandra
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Hmmmm, well if Lillian Gordon Howd was travelling to Canada to meet up with her fiance James Milne
Allan, that would have been news to his wife waiting back home, she thought he was still out hunting for a tobacconist!
Thanks everyone for all so far, we are following up with Irene's birth and marriage to Willard Neilson, it seems they had three children. The amount of info you have dug up, has been awesome.
FYI, James Milne Allan's grandson has been searching for his grandfather for years!!! More later!
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Calgary Herald on 08 July 1943:
https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=Hx6RvaqUy9IC&dat=19430708&printsec=frontpage&hl=en
Allan, James Milne. Aged 65 years, beloved husband of Mrs. Lillian Allan, 2206 14A Street W. Services at "The Little Chapel On The Corner" Friday at 4, Rev Henry G. Rees officiating. Jacques Funeral Home.
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Hi Valgenie:
I visited Queens Park Village cemetery in Calgary this afternoon to seek clues at the Allan and Neilson graves.
The headstone for James M. Allan and Lillian G. is becoming overgrown by a fast-growing bush. This is a well-maintained cemetery and I imagine that the bush will be trimmed before it gets completely out-of-control. No clues in adjacent headstones, no recent flowers or other activity.
The Neilson grave is next to the gravestone of Willard's parents (Frank 1878-1962 and Mary Ann 1881-1953). The space between the two headstones contains two decorated concrete flower vases containing synthetic flowers. Between the vases is a statue of a golden retriever.
There is also a flat stone to the left of Willard & Rene's headstone (Elizabeth Neilson 1898 to 1993).
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Lillian's returns from visits to England in 1926 and 1929 are both back to Selkirk Manitoba the home of Manitoba Rolling Mills which was still James employer after he moved to Calgary. There is no sign of a marriage in Manitoba from 1921 to 1936, probably because bigamy was a serious criminal offence back then.
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Willard and Irene were my great grandparents.
They had 3 children Glen, Marilyn and Denise (all still alive),
5 grandchildren and many many great and great great grandchildren :)