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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Tipperary => Topic started by: healyjfch on Thursday 25 August 16 11:20 BST (UK)
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Two Saul brothers were allowed to stay in Kilkenny Workhouse on their walk from Dublin to Clonmel, Co Tipperary c 1850 The boys were age 11 and 14 Their parents abandoned them in Dublin telling them to go back home to Clonmel. The parents were emigrating.
Some of the Workhouse buildings survive and are incorporated into the Mac Donagh Shopping centre.
Any info on Saul Descendants would be welcome
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There were only two SAULs listed in Tipperary in 1901, both nuns from Cork - LINK (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/results.jsp?searchMoreVisible=false&census_year=1901&surname=saul&firstname=&county19011911=Tipperary&county1821=&county1831=&county1841=&county1851=&barony=&parish=&ward=&townland=&houseNumber=&familyId=&ded=&age=&sex=&search=Search&ageInMonths=&relationToHead=&religion=&education=&occupation=&marriageStatus=&yearsMarried=&birthplace=&nativeCountry=&language=&deafdumb=&causeOfDeath=&yearOfDeath=&familiesNumber=&malesNumber=&femalesNumber=&maleServNumber=&femaleServNumber=&estChurchNumber=&romanCatNumber=&presbNumber=&protNumber=&marriageYears=&childrenBorn=&childrenLiving=)
and one in Kilkenny that was born in England - LINK (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/results.jsp?searchMoreVisible=false&census_year=1901&surname=saul&firstname=&county19011911=Kilkenny&county1821=&county1831=&county1841=&county1851=&parish=&ward=&barony=&townland=&houseNumber=&ded=&age=&sex=&search=Search&ageInMonths=&relationToHead=&religion=&education=&occupation=&marriageStatus=&yearsMarried=&birthplace=&nativeCountry=&language=&deafdumb=&causeOfDeath=&yearOfDeath=&familiesNumber=&malesNumber=&femalesNumber=&maleServNumber=&femaleServNumber=&estChurchNumber=&romanCatNumber=&presbNumber=&protNumber=&marriageYears=&childrenBorn=&childrenLiving=)
In total there are 122 people named SAUL but none born in Tipperary or Kilkenny - LINK (http://firstname)
implying that your SAULs must have (1) moved elsewhere (2) excluded from the census for some reason or (3) died without issue
Do you have first names and parents names to see if we can locate them - baptismal records could give marriage details if any
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Hi healyjfch,
I searched for the 2 boys using the ages and found a Patrick 1834 (went to the USA)
The other James 1837 (went to Scotland)
These boys were born in Clonmel to an Andrew Saul and Margaret Wallace.
Then I found a John born 1827 in Clonmel, this result was from using the parent’s names.
I checked for the records for Andrew and found him in New York in 1860 married to a Jane.
I searched for a Margaret Saul and found one in a workhouse in London (the only one listed in the world) this was in 1851.
It may not be them but these were my findings. (I use 9 sites)
Maggsie
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Hi healyjfch,
I searched for the 2 boys using the ages and found a Patrick 1834 (went to the USA)
The other James 1837 (went to Scotland)
These boys were born in Clonmel to an Andrew Saul and Margaret Wallace.
Then I found a John born 1827 in Clonmel, this result was from using the parent’s names.
I checked for the records for Andrew and found him in New York in 1860 married to a Jane.
I searched for a Margaret Saul and found one in a workhouse in London (the only one listed in the world) this was in 1851.
It may not be them but these were my findings. (I use 9 sites)
Maggsie
This very much looks like the family in question. Is it possible to name the parish in Clonmel and
or parents address at time of Baptisms ?
Thanks for all the replies
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Hi,
St Mary's Clonmel as a Parish is in the town of Clonmel.
But they may have lived either side of the river. This is the problem I have found over many years.
You usually see 2 records, one says St Mary's Tipperary and the other St Mary's Waterford.
In the Tithe records to 1837 nil results for Saul.
In the Griffiths Valuation 1837 to 1864 there is a Mary Saul living in FETHARD in 1850, this is north of Clonmel.
She is the only Saul name in Tipperary South.
In Waterford nil results for Saul.
Searching for an Andrew Saul all over Ireland, nil results.
Possibly this Mary Saul was the grandmother of the boys.
To make it easier for you this link below is the page from the Parish book. It doesn't state the address.
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632164#page/44/mode/1up
I know there is a few if's and but's for this finding but this is the nearest.
I have sent a message to a tree owner, as yet no reply.
I went back to the birth records and found Andrew Saul, 2 records one in Tipperary and one in Waterford, same information and was the only result for an Andrew Saul.
I will send a Private Message to you.
Maggsie
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Regarding the Andrew Saul mentioned above who lived in Newburgh, New York, there is a death notice in the New York Herald from 4 Dec. 1881 that can be seen at www.fultonhistory.com.
"SAUL - At Oakshade, California, October 30, JAMES B. SAUL, brother of John Saul of Washington, D.C., and the late Andrew Saul of Newburg, at the age of 52 years."
There was a John Saul in Washington, DC in that time frame who was apparently a well-known horticulturist, but he was born Co. Cork. He seems to be the one from the death notice.
http://www.sil.si.edu/SILPublications/seeds/sauljohn.html
https://midletonwith1d.wordpress.com/2015/08/01/from-castlemartyr-to-the-white-house-john-saul-horticulturist/
I'm guessing that these folks don't fit with the ones you're looking for, but at least maybe it can help to rule that Andrew out.
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Hi folks I am currently working on a project that involves marking the Saul brothers and I am keen to identify the family. The two boys appeared in Kilkenny workhouse in June 1842. The account from the time said that their parents had emigrated to Sydney. The article in the Kilkenny Journal implies John was born in c.1827 and Patrick in c.1829. Therefore the John Saul born in 1827 is almost certainly the same John.
I think is extremely unlikely that the Patrick who emigrated to the USA in 1837 is the same individual.
I was wondering could you private message me Maggsie. I found the thread somewhat confusing. Is John the child of Andrew Saul and Margaret Wallace?
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Thanks Maggsie. I have found out quite a lot about the family where they went. However I cant verify the elusive John - the son born in 1827. I have tried several sites and the nli baptism registry all to no avail.
Thanks
B
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Thanks Maggsie. I have found out quite a lot about the family where they went. However I cant verify the elusive John - the son born in 1827. I have tried several sites and the nli baptism registry all to no avail.
Thanks
B
Unfortunately, information sent by Personal Message means that others reading the topic/trying to help have absolutely no idea what's going on. Unless details are about living people, contain personal details (email addresses, for example) or are of a sensitive nature then there's really no reason to use PM.
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I have said this before,
I do PM as some of my info. is deleted by the moderator.
It's ok though as I don't search to help others info anymore.
I will keep viewing the site and send PM to point them where to look.
Maggsie
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My advice to BBrennan still stands.
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Rachel Saul; Quaker;
Congregation Year; 1817
Register Type; Disownments & Testimonials-Tipperary
Religious Society of Friends in Ireland Archives.
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Thanks Maggsie. I have found out quite a lot about the family where they went. However I cant verify the elusive John - the son born in 1827. I have tried several sites and the nli baptism registry all to no avail.
Thanks
B
There is a Gaol Record as follows:
John Saul Place of Origin Tipperary Arrival Year NSW 1851 Ship Samuel Boddington. Date of Admission 13/6/1856. Gaol Newcastle New South Wales Australia. Sentence 3 months hard labour to Lunatic Asylum