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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Mayo => Topic started by: Westy11 on Friday 14 October 16 23:50 BST (UK)

Title: Are these the same places?
Post by: Westy11 on Friday 14 October 16 23:50 BST (UK)
Honoria Lyons nee Murphy marriage certificate and death certificate have different locations for Honoria's birth.

When Honoria married in 1885 in Queensland Australia she stated her birthplace as Beacon, Co Mayo.  On her death certificate her birthplace was given as Claremorris, Co Mayo.

I do understand there may well have been confusion over her birthplace however her husband was the death informant which assumes closer knowledge.

I have looked for Beacon without success but did locate Claremorris.  Perhaps it was a little town back in 1857 that no longer exists.    ???

Westy
Title: Re: Are these the same places?
Post by: Sinann on Saturday 15 October 16 00:14 BST (UK)
I wonder did they mean Bekan which is a townland not too far from Claremorris.

People often gave the name of the nearest town rather than the name of a townland.

Although it's also close to Ballyhaunis
Title: Re: Are these the same places?
Post by: Sinann on Saturday 15 October 16 00:29 BST (UK)
Spelt both Becan and Bekan as a RC parish.
http://registers.nli.ie/parishes/1050
Title: Re: Are these the same places?
Post by: Westy11 on Saturday 15 October 16 00:31 BST (UK)
Hello Sinann,

That is most likely the correct location.  Honoria was not able to read or write so perhaps what she said was her townland that was then  written phonetically.

Her death certificate may simply state the nearest town?

Your thoughts on my suggestion??

Westy
Title: Re: Are these the same places?
Post by: heywood on Saturday 15 October 16 00:35 BST (UK)
Hello,

This likely baptism doesn't give the townland unfortunately

http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632017#page/95/mode/1up

Honoria Murphy born October 1857

Heywood 
Title: Re: Are these the same places?
Post by: Sinann on Saturday 15 October 16 00:39 BST (UK)
Spellings of Irish place names on records from around the world can be challenging before basic education became the norm.
I would think it highly likely she pronounced it as Beacon and there is no reason the person writing it would question that.

Do you have a date of birth or parents names for her?
She could be in that parish register.
Title: Re: Are these the same places?
Post by: Westy11 on Saturday 15 October 16 00:41 BST (UK)
Hello Sinann,

Honoria's parents were Patrick Murphy a farmer and Sarah Meehan.  Based on the exact age given at her death it seems she was born 11 Oct 1857.

So far I have been unable to find her parents or  any siblings.

Westy
Title: Re: Are these the same places?
Post by: heywood on Saturday 15 October 16 00:42 BST (UK)
The baptism I gave shows father as Patrick Murphy and mother Sarah  ??? (Can't make out the name).

Griffiths Valuation shows Patrick Murphy snr and P M jnr in Tawnagh, Bekan,
http://www.failteromhat.com/griffiths/mayo/bekan.htm
Title: Re: Are these the same places?
Post by: Westy11 on Saturday 15 October 16 00:45 BST (UK)
Hello,

This likely baptism doesn't give the townland unfortunately

http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632017#page/95/mode/1up

Honoria Murphy born October 1857

Heywood


Hello Heywood,

My apologies as I totally missed your post.  I do think you have found Honoria.

The writing is such a relief as some of the other records are so very difficult.

Westy
Title: Re: Are these the same places?
Post by: heywood on Saturday 15 October 16 00:51 BST (UK)
The Catholic parish records also show for Bekan

Anthony Murphy. Baptism   30th January 1859   ,


Patritius (Patrick) Murphy baptism 20 September 1860
Title: Re: Are these the same places?
Post by: Westy11 on Saturday 15 October 16 00:52 BST (UK)
The Griffiths valuation looks good and thank you Heywood. :)

I am hoping against hope to find Honoria's parents marriage.  Patrick Murphy and Sarah Meehan.  I suppose it will be best to find her siblings first so that i can work out an approximate date of marriage which may make the search a little more fruitful.

Westy
Title: Re: Are these the same places?
Post by: Westy11 on Saturday 15 October 16 00:53 BST (UK)
The Catholic parish records also show for Bekan

Anthony Murphy. Baptism   30th January 1859   ,


Patritius (Patrick) Murphy baptism 20 September 1860

Hello Heywood,

Do you have a hyperlink for the baptisms please??

Westy
Title: Re: Are these the same places?
Post by: Sinann on Saturday 15 October 16 00:57 BST (UK)
I missed these last posts as I was hoping to find a civil birth to the same parents as that Baptisim and I thought her surname was Meehan.
Title: Re: Are these the same places?
Post by: heywood on Saturday 15 October 16 00:58 BST (UK)
Here is Anthony - http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632017#page/109/mode/1up

Sarah is shown as Meath.

Interesting marriage in 1856 Patrick Murphy and Sarah Meath.


You can search the baptisms yourself - as you have a birthdate. It is when you don't have a date it is difficult.
Title: Re: Are these the same places?
Post by: heywood on Saturday 15 October 16 01:00 BST (UK)
Marriage is here - not much info - April 1856

http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632016#page/91/mode/1up
Title: Re: Are these the same places?
Post by: heywood on Saturday 15 October 16 01:05 BST (UK)
Baptism of Patrick, September 1860 - mother Meehan.

http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632017#page/136/mode/1up

So are Meath and Meehan the same?

Griffiths Valuation shows both Meade and Meehan in the area.  :-\
Title: Re: Are these the same places?
Post by: Westy11 on Saturday 15 October 16 01:08 BST (UK)
Hello Heywood,

Not that I am aware but then perhaps the priest just rolled out the last letters rather than make it explicit???

Any ideas the relevance of the 2 people listed directly under Patrick Murphy and Sarah at their marriage??

Are they the witnesses?

Westy
Title: Re: Are these the same places?
Post by: heywood on Saturday 15 October 16 01:11 BST (UK)
Yes, it looks like it and you have the sponsors for the children's baptisms to collate and compare. These may help too.
Title: Re: Are these the same places?
Post by: Sinann on Saturday 15 October 16 01:15 BST (UK)
Irish Ancestors only gives Meathe as a variant of Meath.
Title: Re: Are these the same places?
Post by: Rosinish on Saturday 15 October 16 01:25 BST (UK)
It could be an Irish (Gaelic) spelling of the name Meath/Meehan although not a good example?
I'm surprised Meechan hasn't popped up though.
The name may have been misheard?
Is Meath on the actual cert. or is it a transcription?

I have something similar, my relative, after arriving in Scotland was Cullen but I have also seen Cullinan for her father.

Annie



Title: Re: Are these the same places?
Post by: Sinann on Saturday 15 October 16 01:30 BST (UK)
It could be an Irish (Gaelic) spelling of the name Meath/Meehan although not a good example?
I'm surprised Meechan hasn't popped up though.
The name may have been misheard?
Is Meath on the actual cert. or is it a transcription?

I have something similar, my relative, after arriving in Scotland was Cullen but I have also seen Cullinan for her father.

Annie





It's the parish register in Ireland, just look at the links.
Title: Re: Are these the same places?
Post by: Sinann on Saturday 15 October 16 01:40 BST (UK)
Meath and Meehan are on the same page in the same handwriting on the page the marriage is on, I think you need to look at the priest for each Baptisim and see if the same man uses the two names.
A change of priest could mean a new priest wasn't familiar with the name Meath and wrote Meehan instead.
Although they don't sound alike do they?
Title: Re: Are these the same places?
Post by: hallmark on Saturday 15 October 16 02:07 BST (UK)
The printed Roman Catholic Marriage Register in Latin reads as follows, with * for handwritten dates and names: Anno * die * mensis * natus [f-nata] et anno * die * baptizatus [f.-baptizata] est * filius [f-fila] * (olim * )conjugum. a me *. Patrinus fuit *. Matrina fuit *.

The English translation from the Catholic Family Historianís Handbook is as follows: In the year * on the * day of the month of * was born and in the year * on the * day of the month of * was baptised [name of child] the son/daughter of [parentís names] (formerly [motherís maiden name]) a married couple. by me [name of priest]. The godfather was [name of godfather]. The godmother was [name of godmother].
Title: Re: Are these the same places?
Post by: hallmark on Saturday 15 October 16 02:09 BST (UK)
Meath  =  Meade  ??      http://www.rootschat.com/links/01inx/
Title: Re: Are these the same places?
Post by: Rosinish on Saturday 15 October 16 02:34 BST (UK)
It's the parish register in Ireland, just look at the links.

Yep, missed that, home late & flying through posts.

Agree with
 
Meath and Meehan are on the same page in the same handwriting on the page the marriage is on, I think you need to look at the priest for each Baptisim and see if the same man uses the two names.
A change of priest could mean a new priest wasn't familiar with the name Meath and wrote Meehan instead.
Although they don't sound alike do they?

I think a look at all siblings is in order to decide as there may have been a change of name for whatever reason?

Annie
Title: Re: Are these the same places?
Post by: heywood on Saturday 15 October 16 08:46 BST (UK)

I think this is a summary:
Marriage 1856 Patrick Murphy and Sarah Meath. Witnesses John Murphy and Bridget Delaney

Birth 1857 Honoria - mother Sarah Meehan. (Australian records also have Meehan) sponsors Anthony Murphy and Maria Meehan

Birth 1859 Anthony - mother Sarah Meath - sponsors James Tristan  ??? and Honoria Murphy

**Now I had Anthony as birth in January 1859 but it is 1858 on the register. If that were so it is too close to Honoria's birth  ::)
However, looking at the register, it would seem to be an error by the priest.

Birth 1860 Patrick - mother Sarah Meehan.  Sponsors Michael Meehan and Maria Murphy

Griffiths Valuation shows Meade and Meehan in the parish.

The Marias are likely to be Mary.
Title: Re: Are these the same places?
Post by: Westy11 on Saturday 15 October 16 12:47 BST (UK)
Hello Heywood,  Annie, Sinann & Hallmark

Thanks so much for your efforts.  I have been out babysitting and just back in to see the amount of progress and contributions made by each of you and I am very grateful.  ;D

I will 'get my head' around the progress you have made and I thank you. :-*

Westy
Title: Re: Are these the same places?
Post by: hallmark on Saturday 15 October 16 13:34 BST (UK)
Re: Are these the same places?

It is not a place but a maiden name!! See other entries on page
Title: Re: Are these the same places?
Post by: heywood on Saturday 15 October 16 13:57 BST (UK)
Re: Are these the same places?

It is not a place but a maiden name!! See other entries on page

 ???

The thread is concerned with place names but that was resolved and we have just moved on to the maiden names.