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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Midlothian => Topic started by: BassinghamTerrier on Friday 21 October 16 14:43 BST (UK)
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Hi all
I have recently visited Edinburgh and whilst there I did a little bit of rellie hunting, only to be thwarted! But then again, who isn't?
Anyway, my rellie Alexander Ross was married to Jane Swanson at Canongate Kirk on 5th June 1812; I found the church easily and had a photo taken outside, so no worries on that score.
The problem arises with her address; according to the documentation she was living with her father, George Swanson, at 293 Canongate - which ain't there! Now, my guess is that one of two things account for this:
- The house (probably a tenement) was knocked down to make way for the United Presbyterian Church which was built in 1869 and now houses the Edinburgh School of English
- The house was knocked down as part of the creation of Cranston Street
[I base the above on the fact that the first building on the other side of Cranston Street is number 297 ('World of Nature' shop)].
So my request is two-fold; does anyone know when Cranston Street was created and can therefore pretty much pin down this little issue?
And can anyone supply pictures/maps of Canongate with 293 in situ?
Many thanks in advance,
MT ;)
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Have you tried Scotland's Urban Past?
http://scotlandsurbanpast.org.uk/site/198488/edinburgh-269-293-canongate
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No, sorry. I know not of such sites.
I have very little knowledge of this Scots end of the website or, indeed, of Scotland in general.
I'll follow up on this link though - thanks for your interest and help.
MT ;)
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I also found a reference to this address in 1881:
2 Midcommon Close 293 Canongate
Does that help? :-\
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... another possibility ... numbering may have changed over the years. :)
I don't suppose they were there in any census were they? (you can sometimes narrow down the location via the enumerator's route).
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following up on KGarrad's find:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_closes_on_the_Royal_Mile
http://www.royal-mile.com/closes/close-midcommon.html
It may have been where the church is http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/sidebyside.cfm#zoom=19&lat=55.9511&lon=-3.1832&layers=168&right=BingHyb - looking at the location of Midcommon Close here http://www.royal-mile.com/royalmile-closes.html the location seems to tally with it though it is not too precise (hover your cursor over the name of the Close and it will highlight on the plan)
If you look on google maps streetview Midcommon Close is right beside the church between it and the Wedgewood store, so it looks like you might have been correct MT.
The NLS maps are excellent but for your purposes it might be worth trying to track down a detailed town plan. I'm sure there must be one somewhere. :)
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Thanks for all of the help on here.
I've found Mid Common Close on Google Street View ... for what it's worth! :D
It's a bit close to 267 - the shop on the right - which makes me wonder if Mid Common Close WAS indeed number 293 as KGarrad has intimated.
MT ;)
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Righto, a little further basic (;)) research has revealed that the address of the Edinburgh School of English (the old Presbyterian Church of 1829) is 271 Canongate, so I think that kicks Mid Common Close most definitely into touch as it sits between the church/school and 267, the shop to the right in the picture; 293 Canongate HAD to be further up the Royal Mile, so it's now my bet that it was either where Cranston Street now is or else in the land that was flattened to build the church and its surrounding area.
I'm guessing that the key to this is when Cranston Street was created, because I strongly suspect that 293 was one of a number of houses pulled down to make way for it.
MT ;)
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293 appears to have been where the Christian Institute Hall was 1946-50 map https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/326188/673722/13/101329
1854 map https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/326188/673722/13/100039
Stan
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Now that's interesting, Stan.
I can't access the earlier 1854 map as I need to subscribe to see it in any kind of detail, but the 1945-6 map allows me to clearly see that it would appear to be on the ground used by the Church.
I am also very interested to see that the house numbers extended BACKWARDS down the closes. This may very well prove the point then that 293 Canongate WAS INDEED down Mid Common Close - is that a Close between the red balloon and numbers 289/291? - although with the church being 217 NOW perhaps the properties were indeed renumbered, as Ruskie suggests.
It's all very confusing and annoying! :-\
MT ;)
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This website is a treasure trove of all things Edinburgh www.edinphoto.org.uk :)
Old map of Royal Mile including Canongate here www.edinphoto.org.uk/PP_D/pp_hay_wj_leaflet_royal_mile_map_large.htm
Too late likely for what you need from early 1800s. There are older maps on the site that you could check.
There are also the PO Directories. In later years they included both an alpha list of surnames and an alpha listing of streets (useful for mapping as they showed where streets interjected). www.nls.uk/family-history/directories/post-office/index.cfm?place=Edinburgh
Monica
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Anyway, my rellie Alexander Ross was married to Jane Swanson at Canongate Kirk on 5th June 1812.
Does the original marriage record state specifically that they were married in the kirk building?
Because until the late 19th century it was the norm for a wedding to be held in the bride's home. Weddings in the church itself were very unusual indeed.
So it's far more likely that the wedding was celebrated in 293 Canongate.
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Anyway, my rellie Alexander Ross was married to Jane Swanson at Canongate Kirk on 5th June 1812.
Does the original marriage record state specifically that they were married in the kirk building?
Because until the late 19th century it was the norm for a wedding to be held in the bride's home. Weddings in the church itself were very unusual indeed.
So it's far more likely that the wedding was celebrated in 293 Canongate.
You've got me worried now; I'll have a look and get back to you later ...
MonicaL - thanks for that; I'll check it out! :)
MT ;)
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... Because until the late 19th century it was the norm for a wedding to be held in the bride's home. Weddings in the church itself were very unusual indeed.
So it's far more likely that the wedding was celebrated in 293 Canongate.
You may well be right. The only info I have doesn't look as though it specifies the Kirk itself.
:(
MT ;)
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Hmmm. I wonder whether Jane actually lived in Edinburgh at all, given that her father was in Reay in Caithness. Maybe she came to Edinburgh to get married, and just lodged at 293 Canongate?
If I could work out how to search the online directories at http://digital.nls.uk/directories/ by street, I would look and see what the Edinburgh one tells me.
I can confirm that the 1811-1812 edition does not list Mr Swanson anywhere in Edinburgh, but that isn't definitive as not everyone is listed.
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A couple of sites seem to show 269 - 293 as Tenement/Shops
http://www.scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/record/rcahms/198488/edinburgh-269-293-canongate/rcahms
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Now that's interesting, Stan.
I can't access the earlier 1854 map as I need to subscribe to see it in any kind of detail, but the 1945-6 map allows me to clearly see that it would appear to be on the ground used by the Church.
I am also very interested to see that the house numbers extended BACKWARDS down the closes. This may very well prove the point then that 293 Canongate WAS INDEED down Mid Common Close - is that a Close between the red balloon and numbers 289/291? - although with the church being 217 NOW perhaps the properties were indeed renumbered, as Ruskie suggests.
It's all very confusing and annoying! :-\
MT ;)
I just gave a link to the map as showing the image could be a breach of copyright, and RootsChat policy. RootsChat has its own policy which is that anything that appears to be cut and paste from other websites or programs is removed. I have been advised in the past that to avoid any problems just add the link to wherever you have seen an image, rather than posting the image itself.
Stan
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Point taken, Stan, and offending attachments taken down before official reprimands are forthcoming!
;)
MT ;)
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According to a book I have here on the streets of Edinburgh, Cranston Street was first proposed on 1866 City Improvement map, starting at the entry to Coull's Close and curving westwards over the lower part of Leith Wynd. It got its name in 1874 from Robert Cranston who founded Cranston Temperance Hotels. He was the councillor for Canongate at that time. He may have owned ground west of the street. His son was Lord Provost Robert Cranston in 1891. The northern half of the street disappeared when Waverley Station goods yard adn East Market Street were built in the mid 1890s.
Coul's Close is given as 317 Canongate. Midcommon Close was 295 Canongate.
Nell
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From the 1839-40 street directory here www.archive.org/stream/postofficeannual183940edin#page/146/mode/2up/search/+canongate
Whilst 293 is not showing, 295 is showing, as mentioned above by Nell, by Midcommon Close. 293 would look to be between that Close and Logan Close going by the listing and numbering.
Monica
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I think the numbers have changed. Midcommon close (formerly 295) is just east of The Edinburgh School of English, which now has an address of 271. The World of Nature, which is at the west corner of Cranston Street, now has an address of 297, whereas Cranston/Coull's Close had an address of 317.
The entrance to Midcommon Close can clearly be seen in a Google street scene, in the wall abutting the Edinburgh School of English building. I think it is possible that 293 (or 269 - 293) was the building just east of Midcommon Close.
Ian
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Some good progress has been made I see since my last visit.
Although I have visited Edinburgh I didn't take any notice of the Closes in this area, and am interested to know more about them. :)
Am I correct in assuming that they were used as a side entrance to the dwellings/premises above the shop fronts? Are they "dead ends" or did they run the entire depth of the buildings and give access to dwellings further back from the main street front?
If number 293 Canongate was Mid Common Close, within that address would there have been many seperate addresses, or would they have been defined by 293 a, b, c for example?
If MT's address was 293 Canongate, is that dwelling likely to have fronted Canongate rather than being down Mid Common Close.
Or am I way off the mark here?
I'd love to a stroll there myself to explore. ;D (but that's not going to happen any time soon more's the pity) :'(
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Ruskie, youtube comes in so handy sometimes ::) One of a few, www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqYcuGMGhRg
Monica :)
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Ruskie,
Just thought I would add, the terms Close/Vennel/Alley (which I know in Scotland) are an entrance to (usually) a back (from the main street) with tenements within a closed/enclosed area (no road out the other end), if that makes sense? usually kind of known as a "square".
Annie
Added, Possibly where the name "Close" derives from?
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Thanks Monica and Annie. :)
Very interesting and sort of how I could see them in my mind's eye. There is more variation in size from (alley to square) than I imagined, and they appear to have been occupied by the well to do.
What occupies those closes today? Are they dwellings or businesses or a combination of both? Prime real estate with a price to match I would think. :)
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Ruskie,
On the other hand, we have buildings on Main Streets with Tenement blocks/flats of 4 (or more) on Terraces but the entrance is also known as a "Close" although they have a front & back entrance.
They would be numbered e.g. 4a,4b (bottom), 4c, 4d (top).
Annie
Added, The back entrance/exit would be to the drying green, no road!
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I've more or less answered my own question with some googling, and see that there are a lot of flats in Closes for rent.
Annie, it would be interesting to find out how the term "Close" originated - perhaps it's as simple as residences being within close proximity. :)
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Ruskie,
That sounds feasible...I'd never actually given it a thought until now.
I lived in "Closes" on Streets in my childhood days but the term now just comes under "Flats"
Annie
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From a "Go ogle" search;
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01iq2/
Annie
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Good old Wiki - the obvious first port of call (which I didn't think to check) ::)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_closes_on_the_Royal_Mile
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We're getting into the realms of mediaeval town planning!
The typical mediaeval European town had a main street, often widening in the middle to accommodate church and/or market place. Houses along the street usually had a narrow strip of land extending away from the street at right angles towards the open land outside the town. Often, these strips of land were separated by lanes that gave access between street and open land.
Over time, more houses were built on the strips of land behind the main street, so you got a close extending parallel to the lanes, with houses along them in a line at right angles to the street. It was common for this 'close' to be known by the name of the owner, tenant or occupier of the original strip of land.
Also, in many cases, the town was surrounded by a defensive wall for protection.
The examples that spring to mind include Edinburgh, Montrose, Elgin and Forres in Scotland, Landshut in Bavaria, and Košice and Levoca in Slovakia, but there are thousands of them all over Europe, and if you look carefully at many modern cities you can still see the evidence of the mediaeval layout in spite of developments and redevelopments and intrusion of motor vehicles.
Here http://maps.nls.uk/view/74400028 is a plan of Elgin, which illustrates the classic layout rather well. It also, as a bonus, names the owners of each close.
And http://maps.nls.uk/view/102190471 is a similar plan of Edinburgh, but also shows the sharp contrast between the Old Town and the late 18th century New Town. I like http://maps.nls.uk/view/74414281 for its little drawings of the houses, and for the illustrations of the layouts of the gardens. It also shows that while all the strips of land in Edinburgh itself were pretty much built over, the ones in the Canongate (to the right of the main crossroads) were only just beginning to be filled in. (The NLS web site suggests that this dates from about 1814, but the complete absence of the New Town suggests to me that it has to be earlier.)
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Wow!
What a thread this has become. I'm so pleased that it has thrown up various issues, not least the fact that church marriages up to the late C19th were uncommon. Every day's STILL a learning day, eh?
So many thoughts and ideas in relation to the actual location of 293 and theories as to why or how it would be down Mid Common Close!
I'd like to thank everyone for their help and contributions - I've learned an awful lot about this and town planning in general.
And, to cap it all, I currently live on a Close ...
Cheers to all!
MT ;)
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Fascinating stuff Forfarian. :)
I agree that the map with the houses and gardens is excellent! I could spend hours pouring over it.
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Like you Ruskie I could spend hours with these maps. The "bird's eye view" of Edinburgh is particularly good at capturing the layout and crowded nature of the Old Town.( I am Edinburgh born and bred and have walked a lot of these streets many times but have learned a lot from it already!). Courtesy of Mr Google I think it dates from 1710 (or indeed earlier). Sir George Lockhart who is referred to in the bottom left hand corner was MP for Edinburghshire 1707- 1708 and was involved in the Act of Union.
The article I located states that it is a smaller copy of James Gordon of Rothiemay's 1647 plan of Edinburgh...the original map was engraved by Frederick de Wit, whose name appears in the title. A reduced version was engraved by Andrew Johnson around 1710. Perhaps the date 1814 in the catalogue means that it is a copy of the 1710 engraving.
William
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You are quite right, William.
See http://maps.nls.uk/towns/rec/1026
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Have only just seen this post which has proved very interesting. It interests me as many of my grandfathers rellies lived in the closes. I visited Edinburgh for the second time this year and stayed at the new Premier inn which is at the bottom of Cranston Street. While we were there we went on a tour round Mary Kings close which is situated under the city chambers. The history of the closes was very interesting and well worth a visit. Anyhow whilst the I bought a book "A guide th the royal mile" which is about the closes on the Royal Mile.
Midcommon Close is marked as no public access.
Cranston Street was names in 1874 after Robert Cranston founder of the Cranston Temperance hotels and councillor for Canongate.
Cranston House formerly Canongate Christian Institute (1828-1930) and is now Edinburgh school of English which teaches English as a foreign language.
At the beginning of the booK a CLOSE is stated as being an entry to a tenement, also possibly offering access at the back of the building. At one time there was a gate at the front entrance which
as closed at night. Also describes an alley between two buildings.
Barbara.
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I thought Midcommon Close rang a bell and I have just found some notes of a distant relative who on 1891 census is living at 293 Canongate No 5 Midcommon Close so the whole block was 293 subdivided into numbers Midcommon Close.
The head of the household's occupation was Gas stoker at (I think) New Street gas works which is the next street along from Cranston Street.
Hope this helps unravel the numbering system.
Barbara.
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Ah, that is interesting Barbara. ;)
MT do you only have the one reference to that address relating to your family?
I am wondering if the address was numbered as Barbara's was, though I realise your family lived there a lot earlier than 1891.
Originally, some/all/many of these houses in the Closes seem to have been inhabited by wealthy people, and I expect that they were later divided into smaller dwellings and renumbered as per Barbara's example.
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At the beginning of the book a CLOSE is stated as being an entry to a tenement, also possibly offering access at the back of the building.
That's a slightly inadequate definition, because it begs the question of what a tenement is!
Originally, a tenement was simply a plot of land - such as one of the strips of land leading off at right angles to the street. Later, as the tenement land became built over, it also acquired the meaning of a building with separate housing for several households, all accessed from a common stair.
There could be, and in the case of Edinburgh there usually were, many buildings in a close, and the access would have given access to all of the buildings in that close, not just 'the building'.
I suspect the writer of that definition is thinking of a tenement in terms of a single large building for multiple occupancy, with a passageway at ground level from the street to a piece of ground behind the building where there is a small garden, or more usually a drying green.
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Ah, that is interesting Barbara. ;)
MT do you only have the one reference to that address relating to your family?
I am wondering if the address was numbered as Barbara's was, though I realise your family lived there a lot earlier than 1891.
Originally, some/all/many of these houses in the Closes seem to have been inhabited by wealthy people, and I expect that they were later divided into smaller dwellings and renumbered as per Barbara's example.
Yes, just the one, Ruskie.
It's the marriage which states "Alexander Ross, Gunner in the 2nd Battalion of Royal Artillery Leith Fort, and Jane Swanson No. 293 Canongate, Daughter of George Swanson, Labourer in Reay Caithness, gave up their names for Marriage. Certified by John Lindsay, Gunner in said Batn. and William Buchanan, Private in the Renfrew Militia."
(The above info came from Scotland's People.)
MT ;)
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Well, typed thie earlier but who knows where it went? When we were on the tour of the closes, there were both the poor living (large families of different generations) in one room, basically four walls and also more affluent families living in more luxurious accomodation in the same building. They even had furniture. The actual alleys between the buildings were as wide as if you put both arms out so not much room. Mary Kings close is an actual Close which is lower than the Royal mile which was built higher. It is situated beneath the Edinburgh Chambers. I will look later to see if I can find any earlier mentions of Midcommon Close.
Barbara.
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Visited Mary King's Close only last Tuesday.
Very interesting, although the delivery by our Italian-Scottish guide was a bit off the wall!
MT ;)
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A little more from the book on Edinburgh streets:
Midcommon Close was the middle of three common closes (at nos 287. 295 and 307 Canongate). Each gave 'common' or 'public' access to the High Street of the Canongate. The most easterly was East Common Close (at no 287), also known as Logan's Close and named for the family who owned the property for several generations. James Logan and his son, another James, were clerks of the affairs of the Canongate 1568-1615.
Midcommon Close was also called Middle Common Close or just the Common Close. It was also known as Veitch's after several Edinburgh burgesses who owned the property.
The West Common Close was also known as High School Close.
Now I just need to remember all this ;)
Nell
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Hi Little Nell. Your post is interesting and adds more info to the story of Mid Common close. I actually found East Common Close while looking through a census but wasnt sure if transcribed wrongly. The book I got my information from is called " a guide to the Royal mile" and it goes down the Royal mile from top to bottom. It has been worth buying as have used it quite a bit in the last three weeks since I bought it. I got it as my grandfathers family resided in many of the closes up until early 1900's.
Barbara.
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Just wondering, would Midcommon Close have been at the back of the new Premier Inn on Market street? Stayed there and room was at the back and looked up towards High Street.
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Things changed over the years, it seems. At one time Mid Common Close was an access route from the Canongate to Market Street (although I don't think it was called Market Street at that time.) I think the Premier (Market St.) is behind/North of the building that now houses Wedgewood Restaurant (formerly Morocco Lands).
Ian
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The Premier inn is on Market street and to get to Royal mile you have to come out of door (opposite council offices) and turn left up Cranston street so it seems to me that it is behind where the language school is. There is space between the hotel and buildings on Royal Mile which could have been where Mid Common Close was situated. Just a thought.
Barbara.
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I think you are correct. I was misled by a map which shows Premier on the North side of E. Market street, whereas it is on the south side. The map in the site below shows the hotel and the Edinburgh School of English. If you increase to max. magnification, the names of the buildings will appear.
http://www.geopunk.co.uk/EH8-8/Mid-Common-Close
The entrance to Midcommon Close is in the wall which adjoins the school (the blue line), but I think the close changed in size and content over the years.
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What an interesting map. Have looked at it for quite a while at all the places we visited and places in my family tree. Thanks for that.
Barbara
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Can anyone help.....295 Canongate I have on a birth cert for 1869, above the address it says 'birthy buildings?'.....has anyone heard of this.
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Can you post an extract from the certificate so we can have a look at it?