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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Topic started by: Jenfur on Monday 05 December 16 16:37 GMT (UK)
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Hi everyone
I hope this is the right place to post & that someone can help me.
I have a number of postcards from my Welsh great-grandmother's collection which I'm sure will hold a big key to my family history - only the handwriting is often difficult to read and not speaking Welsh myself makes it almost impossible.
Is anyone able to translate the attached postcard, written by my GG Grandmother to her daughter?
Thanks in advance!
Jen
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Starting with "Shop M N Jones y wraig ar ferch ar y drws..." on left hand edge :
MN Jones ‘s siop the wife and daughteron the dress the dress & hosier
Home Saturday if fit and well in (in top left corner above “This Space”)
Main text:
Dear children I’m sending you this from Pant Gwyn
Office today It’s hail stoning heavily it’s splendid now
Your mother is collecting copper and lead in the old works
We were at Morris’s house yesterday
We are still on the march. towards Bwlch Tocyn this afternoon here are my sister An & children Gwen and family are asking about you
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Thank you so so much!!
That's really interesting - I'm going to look through my other postcards later to see if that clears anything up. Do you think that the card was written by their father instead, as it mentions their mother? And am I right that it doesn't suggest how Gwen is related to them?
Thanks
Jen
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I got as far as 'Dear Children' and 'Home Saturday all being well' and then found that Sam had translated so..
Not sure if you have the family but they're on the 1901 and later at 8 Church Road
RG13/5034/86/34
8 Church Road, Aberdare
Griffith Williams, 34, coal hewer
Sarah, w, 37, b. do
Jane, d, 15
William, s, 12
Sarah A, d, 9
All born Caernarfon except Sarah A who was born Aberdare
Gadget
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Hi Gadget
Thanks for your message.
I have the family in Aberdare, its going backwards that I've struggled with. I've found that Griffith was actually Griffith Jones and when he married Sarah Williams, he took her last name - but I have no idea why and have never come across this before.
I've traced Sarah back and she has a sister called Ann so I imagine its her family that she's talking about and visiting. Griffith's residence at the time of their marriage was Vrondeg, Rhostryfan and in the 1881 census there is a Williams family there with a daughter called Gwen, who I've tracked later to Pant Gwyn Office - but I don't know how she's related (assuming she is). I was hoping she was from Griffith's family as I can't find anything about him prior to his marriage.
I have some postcards written to him from 'Bet' that start "Dear Cousin" so I will try to scan and post one of these later, if someone could help with translation in case they hold the key.
Ramble over! Thanks again
Jen
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Hi Jen
What was Griffith's father's name (e.g. was it William Jones or John William)? . It could be that it was patronymic and Griffith decided to go for Williams. I had quite a few juggles with patronymics around Bala and Llangower. Also, can you track Gwen via her marriage?
Busy today but I do like a puzzle in North Wales.
Gadget
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I'm very grateful of any help - I'm fed up with this North Wales puzzle!
Griffith's father was - wait for it - Griffith Jones.
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I can't find a marriage record for Gwen. She was living at Pant Gwyn Office as a servant to Cadwaladr Williams in 1911 - she was Gwen Ellen and I can't see any marriage that ties in.
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I see that Gwen Ellen was daughter of a Griffith Williams (widower, aged 36) on the 1881. Have you anything else on this family?
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Hi Gadget
I don't have much else and don't have the info to hand. I've found the family in the 1871 census - there's Griffith and his wife Jane and a son named Griffith (born about 1867 because I remember he tied in with my Griffith, except he was a Williams not a Jones!) and Gwen Ellen. I've also found them in 1891 where Griffith has remarried another Jane - I believe Jane Hughes, whose age ties in with her being the Jane Hughes that was their domestic servant in 1881, but that's a guess.
There's a death for a potential Gwen Ellen Williams in 1950 from Carnarvon but I don't know for sure if this is her and it doesn't really help me in working backwards. I'm really stumped how to find a connection with the family and Griffith Jones, unless they're related to Sarah, as they're Williamses.
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Hi everyone, back again.
Is anyone able to very kindly translate these two postcards? These are from Bet whom I believe is Griffith's cousin - hopefully there's a mention in them that will help me out!
Thanks in advance
Jen
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First of the 2 cards:
Modryb Mary sydd yn rhoi hwn i ? jane
Auntie Mary is giving this to ? you Jane
Dear Jennie I’ve waited a long time for word from you my dear love to say how things are and things like that. I’m very busy no 20 year old horse will rush me in the up here in the North. Must be very busy since it’s very likely that I’ll be on the water a month from today. Willlie Nantlle’s been ill in his bed from Monday to last Thursday and he won’t be back this night the poor thing he’s not half strong. A Myriad (or a thousnad) regards from me (cofion fyrdd iwan atat) Bet
I am having a lovely time here yum yum and i’ll bring you ???
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Second card
Dear cousin and all the family
Thank you very much for your kind invitation to us there I don’t believe that my aunt and uncle will come you will find out again when I will come there. This is Owen who brings the card send if it will have arrived safely. A thousand (or myriad) regards Bet
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Thank you so much for translating those! I expect Auntie Mary was a Williams or Jones, knowing my family and my luck. I wonder who Willie Nantlle was? Something to try and find out.
Thanks again
Jen
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Hi Jen
Here is a map indicating the location of Nantlle - not far from Llandwrog or Llanwnda
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01j0c/
Also this link from Genuki
http://www.nantlle.com/nantlle-english.htm
I've beenchecking up on Gwen Ellen's family - have gone back to 1851 - not sure if you have them ~
Griffith Williams, father of Gwen Ellen, with his parents in 1851
1851 HO107/2515/188/12
Pen(y)lan ucha, Llandwrog
William Williams, 37, Ag Lab, b. Llandwrog
Elinor, w, 38, b. Clynog
Griffith, s, 8
Hugh, s, 6,
William, s, 4
Thomas, s,1
All children b. Llandwrog
Gadget
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Hi Gadget
Thanks for the info. Can I ask how you're sure they're the correct family for Griffith?
I'll have a look later to try to link them into my tree but I'm guessing it's more likely they're on Sarah's side. I think Bet is my biggest clue as she writes directly to Griffith and calls him cousin.
Thanks again
Jen
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This is where I got to before my eyes gave up!
You have mentioned Gwen Ellen in the 1881 as daughter to Griffith Williams ~
RG11/5564/105/8 - Vron Deg
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Going back to 1871 (RG10/5714/70/7)
Tan y waen, Llanwnda
Griffith Williams, 28, slate quarrier, b. Llandwrog
Jane, w, 31, b. Aberdaron
Griffith, s, 3, b. Llanwnda
Gwen, d, 2 mths, b. do
Sidney Williams,female, relation, 18, domestic servant, b. Aberdaron
1861: RG9/4338/59/7
Penylan, Llanwnda
William Williams, 44, Ag Lab, b. Llandwrog
Ellen, w, 45, b. Clynog
Griffith, s, 17, slate quarrier, b. Llanwnda
Hugh, s, 15, do, b. Llanwrog
William, s, 12, do, b. do
Thomas, s,10, scholar, b. do
Edward, s, 8, do, b. do
And 1851 - as previous post.
1851 HO107/2515/188/12
Pen(y) lan ucha, Llandwrog
William Williams, 37, Ag Lab, b. Llandwrog
Elinor, w, 38, b. Clynog
Griffith, s, 8
Hugh, s, 6,
William, s, 4
Thomas, s,1
All children b. Llandwrog
I always take relationships with a pinch of salt until proven - my father referred to practically everyone in the village where I grew up as 'cousins'. Many of them were but very distantly!
Added - Caernarfonshire has the highest % of Williams of any county in Wales - it looks as if Sidney in 1871 might be related to Jane rather than Griffith!
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Age is out a bit, but there's a Sydney Williams born in 1848 on the 1891 Census incorrectly transcribed as a man - but daughter to a Lewis Williams age 71 born Aberdaron 1814 married to Catherine Williams aged 77 living at Morfa Bach Aberdaron.
Registration district Pwllheli RG12 Piece number 4653 Folio 6 Page 5
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Hi both
Thanks for the info. I'll try to look into Sidney Williams and going further with Griffith Williams' family to try and find the connection but with so many Williams and so many names being repeated, it's probably not going to be easy. I'm crossing my fingers for a really unusual name one of these days!
I've attached the last few postcards from Bet that I have, if anyone doesn't mind translating one last time? I would accept a distant cousin but I'm sooo hopeful she's more direct - I'm really stumped where to go from here if this draws a blank.
If these aren't any use, does anyone know what I can do next to trace Griffith Jones?
Thanks in advance
Jen
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Last 2 postcards
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First card
dear cousin
This is where I am at the moment. I have been in Porthmadoc for a fortnight I'm waiting a word to say whether Owen is coming over and if he is we'll come there together, you'll hear again, I'm afraid you'll think I've forgotten about you but I'm not coming there like a bad half crown some day. Uncle and Aunt send their very warm regards. Please accept my best wishes to you all, this is short [?] from Bet
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card 4
Dear cousins (Welsh states a male and a female cousins)
I’m on the train going to Talysarn from America, what do you think of that, we’ll see each other before long, Best wishes from Bet
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No 2
Dear family
a quick word to let you know that the little boy and I are alright, and the jolly [?] have just finished a good supper of ?? [possible something lamb] and red cabbage. a thousand wishes to you. Bet
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Thank you guys, you're amazing!
I'm determined to crack this mystery - off to research.