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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Monaghan => Topic started by: calcinare on Thursday 05 January 17 18:00 GMT (UK)
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Hello. The attached extract comes from an 1847 poor law rate book for Castleblayney. The columns on the right are the standard A/R/P land terms. I would appreciate any help with the below:
1) What does the term "farrick" mean that appears with the name James McMahon?
2) If a name appears twice, should I assume it is two different people rather than one person being associated with two separate plots of land?
3) Some people are referred to as "Mc" as part of their first name. Does this mean "son of", or does it have some other meaning?
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My interpretations :)
[1] I would think that 'farrick' is a way of distinguishing this James McMahon from another one :-\
[2] I don't think that would be a wise assumption
[3] Originally yes, but once surnames became standardised I suspect they were passed on as they were.
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This is a very good piece on understanding Griffith's Valuation, I'd say it's much the same for the rate books.
http://www.leitrim-roscommon.com/GRIFFITH/Griffiths.PDF
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Interesting article, thanks for the link, Sinann.
Josey
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http://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit.com/Griffiths-Valuation.html
Plus
http://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit.com/Richard-Griffiths.html gives excellent explanations on what is what!
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Thank you for those too.
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Was he otherwise known as that, Patrick?
Skoosh.
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Thank you for the GV article links, but after reading them it seems that the terms/style I am having trouble with are specific to the rate book. I have never come across a document like this where people were referred to as "Mc" as part of their first name, and so I am assuming that whatever was being done with the rate book was specific to it. For example, the three Markeys would appear to be related, but why would one be referred to as McPatt if his name was actually Patrick/Patt? If "Mc" was meant to mean "son of Patrick", then I would think that the creator would just use the man's actual name (fyi, no other Patrick Markey / senior appears in the townland).
I think Josey is right about the "farrick" term as there are two James McMahons in the townland I pulled the extract from (fyi, the other just says "James McMahon"). I have no idea what "farrick" means though, and an internet search for once isn't turning up anything. If the author was using this term to differentiate a father from a son, then that would probably mean that multiple appearances of a name like "Robert Eccles" would be referring to a single person associated with multiple parcels of land. Does anything know if that word really means father/son or was some other type of now-obsolete reference?
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From what I read in those links I think the additional term to distinguish 2 people of the same name [the 'agnomen'] might refer to some sort of distinguishing feature - like 'tall' or 'fair' as well as sometimes referring to that person's father's name. Or may even be an occupation - farrier?
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I didn't notice where the Mc was, I would think that is their surname and the second surname is how to tell them apart, perhaps a wife or mother's maiden name. They probably all have the same first name but it is odd it's not listed.
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Any that I found were sons named after their father so Mc Robert Baliey was Robert Bailey's son.
If the 2 were alive in same townland then Jun and Sen were used.
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Thank you all for the feedback!
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Any that I found were sons named after their father so Mc Robert Baliey was Robert Bailey's son.
If the 2 were alive in same townland then Jun and Sen were used.
Not always- senior and junior were often just the designate the older and younger of two men with the same names in a townland. Here's a made up example but there doesn't have to be a blood relationship between Sen. & Jun.-
John Smith (born 1820) and his son John Smith (born 1850) appear in records as Sen. & Jun.
John Smith Sen. (born 1820 died in 1890) so John Smith would be listed without Jun. except-
John Smith (born 1850) has a nephew (born 1875) also called John Smith. So,
John Smith (born 1850) is now John Smith Sen. and his nephew John Smith (born 1875) becomes John Smith Jun.
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and why those writing up the books used names/nicknames to differentiate those with same names