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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: deejayEn on Tuesday 10 January 17 18:05 GMT (UK)

Title: Baptism of Irish ancestor - cant read the words
Post by: deejayEn on Tuesday 10 January 17 18:05 GMT (UK)
I have finally managed to trace my ancestor back to Ireland where my grandmother said her mother's family originally came from. I have found a baptism record for Patrick Higgins born in Dublin in 1783 at St Andrew's Church in Dublin City. The page is very faded but it is readable - he is the fifth one the page. I understand that his and his father's name have been abbreviated to Patte but what I can't read are the words after that. It looks like St Maa what I assume is an address beginning with R or K - does anyone know what it says?

Also are their any experts on Irish records who would help me to get further back or point me in the right direction. I was told that Patrick was a mariner but there is no occupation listed here. Can I find out more?
Title: Re: Baptism of Irish ancestor - cant read the words
Post by: DavidJP on Tuesday 10 January 17 18:12 GMT (UK)
Hi,

I see:

Patte Higgins   Patte & Anne    St Maa?    Kinchelagh

Hope this helps.

Kind regards

David
Title: Re: Baptism of Irish ancestor - cant read the words
Post by: crisane on Tuesday 10 January 17 18:41 GMT (UK)
I think the word before Ann is 'lattet' and as the entry appears to be written in Latin 'latet' means 'unknown'
So looking at the other  entries they appear to have two parents names but yours only has Ann. So father unknown?
Or am I way off beam :) which is very likely
Title: Re: Baptism of Irish ancestor - cant read the words
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 10 January 17 19:27 GMT (UK)
Hello,
Patt et (and) Anna or Anne.

Usually after the parents names, there would be the sponsors and thus is often shown as SS - you can see it on some others.
I wonder if Maa is Maria with a surname Kinchelagh which might be a variation of Kinsella  :-\
Although other entries show a full name Maria  ???

Heywood
Title: Re: Baptism of Irish ancestor - cant read the words
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 10 January 17 19:49 GMT (UK)
I was just looking for the record but not on the sites I searched.
However, Irish genealogy has the transcript so I thought I would see if there were any Kinchelagh records to support.
There is a marriage for Maa Kinshelagh and Berns Martin  :)

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01j8v/
Title: Re: Baptism of Irish ancestor - cant read the words
Post by: Sinann on Tuesday 10 January 17 19:52 GMT (UK)
Hello,
Patt et (and) Anna or Anne.

Usually after the parents names, there would be the sponsors and thus is often shown as SS - you can see it on some others.
I wonder if Maa is Maria with a surname Kinchelagh which might be a variation of Kinsella  :-\
Although other entries show a full name Maria  ???

Heywood
The transcriber pretty much agrees with you
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01j8w/
Title: Re: Baptism of Irish ancestor - cant read the words
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 10 January 17 20:00 GMT (UK)
Hi Sinann,

Yes I found that afterwards - see my post. I looked on nli site and then Irish genealogy for the record to see if there were any others to compare with back and forth.

Just had a look in indexes - lots of Maa names  ??? Do you know what that would be? Is it May or Mary do you think?
Title: Re: Baptism of Irish ancestor - cant read the words
Post by: Sinann on Tuesday 10 January 17 20:18 GMT (UK)
Yes I noticed, we were clearly typing at the same time.
I've never come across Maa before.
Title: Re: Baptism of Irish ancestor - cant read the words
Post by: Sinann on Tuesday 10 January 17 20:33 GMT (UK)
Not sure I have the correct birth, address is different but there is a Maa Dillon in Galway in 1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Galway/Killeroran/Killian__Barony_/1390611/
They have a son, think his name is Thomas, there is a birth that fits his age and mother is Maria
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1885/02643/1974808.pdf

Need to be sure that is the correct birth though.

This is the parents of this birth in 1911, note mother in laws name.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Galway/Killeroran/Ballygar_Town/467477/
There are no Dillon's in Ballygar in 1901 and they don't seem to be in Killian in 1911 so looks good for Maa being Maria.
I think.....
Title: Re: Baptism of Irish ancestor - cant read the words
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 10 January 17 23:05 GMT (UK)
This looks a strong possibility for Patt Higgins marriage to Anne

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01j8z/

Looking at Irish Genealogy, Maa seems to be very popular in Dublin in 1700s
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01j90/

Interesting but as she is only likely to be a sponsor, we may be digressing. ;)

I first looked thinking she could be a relative.
Title: Re: Baptism of Irish ancestor - cant read the words
Post by: horselydown86 on Wednesday 11 January 17 03:26 GMT (UK)
The name Maa has a contraction mark above the second a.

While I'm not familiar with Irish practice, I would say it is almost certainly Ma(ri)a.

He didn't write it in full because he was running out of space to fit Kinchelagh into the line.
Title: Re: Baptism of Irish ancestor - cant read the words
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 11 January 17 09:05 GMT (UK)
The name Maa has a contraction mark above the second a.

While I'm not familiar with Irish practice, I would say it is almost certainly Ma(ri)a.

He didn't write it in full because he was running out of space to fit Kinchelagh into the line.

Thanks. I wondered about the accent/mark. It was the numbers of entries which puzzled me too. Lots of contractions! I see Patt though  ( with double 't') so often and never think about that.
Title: Re: Baptism of Irish ancestor - cant read the words
Post by: deejayEn on Wednesday 11 January 17 16:43 GMT (UK)
Thanks for all you help - it's much appreciated.