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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Stirlingshire => Topic started by: amac1210 on Sunday 15 January 17 02:19 GMT (UK)
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I've been researching my roots and found I descend from the Stark family (1600s-1700s) in Kilsyth. I wonder if anyone has any information on these guys? I want to get the family tree to extend farther back. Specifically I descend from a woman named Jean Stark (born 23 June 1711) who married James Strathearn in Kilsyth 9 June 1734. Jean herself was "begotten in fornication" as her parish birth record shows to William Stark and Janet Baird who don't seem to have married afterwards at all. She was "presented by John Graham" and witnesses included John Young and John ?. There are three possible William Starks who could fit the bill as her dad, one born in early 1660s (but would be a bit old!), another born c. 1676, and one born c. 1687 in Kilsyth. Working with the last one, he is the son of an Alexander Stark on "Banton" - a village nearby - whose wife is unknown. Alexander was born c. 1662. It is possible he also had a child named Agnes Stark (born c.1683) "in fornication" with a woman named Giles Adam, but there is no way of knowing if it is the same man. However records only show himself and his own father, also named Alexander Stark. I have no information of this elder Alexander, also of Banton, who would have likely been born c.1620s-1640s. What I do know however is that he had a son named James born c. 1660. I am also aware that there was a James Stark, described as "Baillie" or "Chamberlain" to the Viscount of Kilsyth, witnessing to the Baptism of Sarah Stark daughter of Alexander Stark of Banton in 1714. This is odd with the date, and could be a third generation Alexander. Anyhow, further research showed that James Stark began running the estate entirely that had been owned by the Viscount - when he fled the country. James went bankrupt within two years and thereafter worked in the York Buildings Company. I'm thinking he may be a son or grandson of James Stark son of Alexander Stark I of Banton? It is very difficult to piece this together and I've ran dry of sources. I could be wrong with the William Stark I chose to go with and it's all educated guessing with these records.
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The Viscount who fled the country would be the Jacobite William Livingston of Kilsyth.
Skoosh.
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Yes that's correct. His own story is an interesting one, if tragic. James Stark was his Chamberlain and looked after his estate after his departure.
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Not much help but I recognise some of these names in Kilsyth. One of my 4x grt grandmothers was Elizabeth Stark who married in Kilsyth in 1759. I haven't found her birth yet. One of my 5x grt grandmothers was Mary Strahearn who had a daughter with David Kirkwood in 1795. I have a John Graham but slightly later having a family around 1800.
I'll keep your family in mind and let you know if I come up with any links but it sounds like you are further ahead in your research than I am.
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It seems pretty likely we're distantly related. They don't seem to be huge families and I reckon we could possibly find a real connection. I'll bear the names in mind, though at present I'm not doing any major research except via this website. It would be interesting to see your own line going back to them.
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I took a very cursory look at Scotland's People there. There isn't any trace of a record for an Elizabeth Stark marrying in 1759 in Kilsyth. What was her husband's name? Nor was there any record for a birth in Kilsyth that would fit that marriage date - unless she married in her late 40s. Similarly, there is no record at all for a Mary Strathearn born in the era. I think this may be a case of records that simply haven't been digitised unfortunately. Only route to an answer would be the National Archives. What sources did you use for these marriages?
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Do you know I can't find it on SP either. It's from notes I took when at NRH about 8/9 years ago. It's not beyond possibility I've made a mistake. I haven't worked on this line for quite a bit. I was rushing when I replied earlier I'll look back again.
Now I have everything in front of me I'll lay out what I have:
My grt grt grandfather Alexander Dunn died on 30 Jun 1875 in Kilsyth. His death certificate gave his parents as Alexander Dunn and Jean Motherwell. Alexander jnr was married to Agnes Bankier daughter of James Bankier and Margaret Laing, she died in 1864.
There is a baptism for Alexander Dun son of Alexander Dun and Jean Motherwell in Kilsyth on 27 Jun 1806. There is a marriage for an Alexander Dun to a Jean Moderal in St Ninian's on 1 Nov 1801. Alexander's baptism gives William Dun and Elizabeth Stark as his parents. He was baptised in Kilsyth but his parent's marriage was actually in Falkirk (sorry, important lesson to me, don't get excited when you hear familiar names and not check properly).
The Strahearn was also an oops moment for me. She is listed as the mother of my 4x grt grandmother Elizabeth Kirkwood on Elizabeth's death cert in 1875. This line did not marry into my Kilsyth line until 1929 and I do not know for sure where Mary was from :-[.
The Graham's come from Margaret Graham Hay, wife of Alexander Dunn jnr. Margaret was born in Cumbernauld in 1858 to Peter Hay and Mary Ann Cochrane. Peter was the son of Robert Hay and MArgaret Graham. Margaret's death cert in 1865 (died Kilsyth) gave her parents as John Graham and Isabella Stirling. Margaret would have been born about 1800 so my John Graham was born last half of 1700s.
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Thanks for all the info there. I'll look into it in a bit. There seems to have been a fair amount of travel in the 17th-18th centuries. My last Strathearn ancestor, was John Strathearn of Tamfin. Now, no trace of a Tamfin anywhere I can find on Google - so I assumed this may be Carfin. Carfin is a fair bit away from Kilsyth however. Not sure how far Banton is from Kilsyth. Nevertheless, these potential movements don't surprise me either. Janet Strathearn (the daughter of Jean Stark and James Strathearn) married James Porteous in Edinburgh and my own line then is focused on a village near Edinburgh named Colinton. Come the mid 1800s, they move to Glasgow.
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any local Lannisters or Baratheons ?
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From the Parish Registers of Kilsyth, on Scotland's People, I can't see a single birth record for Lannisters or Baratheons. Not to say there weren't people with those surnames, not all has been digitised.
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Hi
Banton is a 5 minute car drive from Kilsyth.
Marguerite.
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Interestingly, Alexander STARK of Kilsyth was a witness at my x6 great grandfather's birth in 1688 (see https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Miller-41678 (https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Miller-41678)). However, I have not been able to determine a link between the STARK/Miller family. Have you come across this name in your research?
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I'm not too sure Kreilla. There may well be a connection but no way of confirming that. I know that William Stark had a child outwith marriage with Janet Baird years later in 1711. This was Jean Stark, my ancestor. So if Alexander Stark of Banton is William's father, then there could be a connection with your witnesses since I notice there is also a William Baird alongside Alexander. It's very tenuous but not much to go on?
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The natives pronounce this Ban-tone with the emphasis on tone!
Skoosh.
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From the Parish Registers of Kilsyth, on Scotland's People, I can't see a single birth record for Lannisters or Baratheons. Not to say there weren't people with those surnames, not all has been digitised.
All of the surviving parish registers of the Church of Scotland and the Roman Catholic Church, and some of the surviving registers of the free and dissenting churches, has been digitised. What has not been digitised is a very small proportion of what survives.
The surnames Lannister and Baratheon appear to be almost entirely fictitious. Why did you think they occurred in Kilsyth and Banton, and what connection do they have to the Stark family?
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The Lannister and Baratheon post is a Game of Thrones joke, since there are characters with the surname Stark in that series as well. Not too funny I might add!
I have noticed legal records on the National Records of Scotland regarding Alexander Stark of Banton, dating from as far back as 1687. This was regarding the estate of the Viscount Kilsyth.
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Oh dear ....... :-X
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My 3rd great grandfather is James Stark, birth ABT 1787 • Kilsyth, Stirlingshire, Scotland, death 25 JUN 1864 • Esquesing Township, Halton County, Ontario, Canada. I Know he had several siblings, including Alexander, Andrew, John, Joseph, Helen (Gillies)(married to James...immigrated to Lanark County, Ontario, Canada) and Ann (possibly more but I am confident about this). James was a cousin to Rev. Alexander Stark (1786-1881) and Rev Joseph Stark (1798-1877), both ministers with the Free Church of Scotland. Their siblings were James (?-abt 1826), Janet (1784-1856) and Robert (1802-?). Their father was Alexander Stark (?-abt 1826) and their mother Elizabeth Nisbet. Another family of cousins were James and Joseph. I have their father's name as James but I am not 100% sure of that. I also have a nephew John, who immigrated to Canada (Kingston, Ontario) in the 1820s. I have found birth records for Alexander and Elizabeth Stark's family but I can't seem to find anything for my 3rd great grandfather or his siblings to identify their parents. Can anyone provide suggestions. Since I am in Canada my research has been almost completely through Ancestry. If anyone has an Ancestry account you can find more about what I have in my tree (djdevine6).
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Can anyone provide suggestions. Since I am in Canada my research has been almost completely through Ancestry.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=714261.0
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amac 1210
There is no need for you to venture into the wilds of Lanarkshire to find Tamfin, it is located barely a mile to the east and north of Banton (http://maps.nls.uk/view/91578896#) (Map Ref NS773799).
Shown as Tomfyne, it appeared on earlier maps as Tomfin.http://maps.nls.uk/view/74983761 and is marked on the Timothy Pont map of 1583-86 (http://maps.nls.uk/view/00002329).
If you Google "NLS Maps", this will take you to the National Library of Scotland site, and you can spend many hours/days looking at their fantastic collection of maps (for free).
For older information (pre OS), the old county maps are a great resource.
Good luck in your quest
Istrice
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Thanks to advice I received after posting my earlier message about my 3rd GG James Stark, I researched using Scotland's People and am very confident his parents were John Stark (born 1740) and Elizabeth Livingston (born 1747), both from Kilsyth parish. John's parents would seem to be James Stark (born 1710) and Marrion Baird (born 1717), both from Kilsyth parish. John appears to be the son of Archbald Stark and Jean Stark (presumably this is her married name; maiden name unknown if different). Archbald and Jean had four children, James, Kathrin, Jean, and Alexander. It seems that the birth year of Archbald and Jean's daughter Jean (1714) is different than the one being sought by amac1210 (1711). There was also a brother Alexander in this family, baptized in 1716. I could not find any record of an Archbald Stark in Kilsyth Parish but there was one in Glasgow and one in Cardcross (Dunbarton). The Glasgow one, which is most likely, was baptized in 1687 and he had a brother James baptized in 1869 (son to James Stark and Kathrin Hamilton).
I know it's a lot of info and I have not looked at the original source documents yet, but I am hoping someone will know enough about the family to either confirm I am on the right track or tell me where I may have taken a wrong turn.
Dave
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John appears to be the son of Archbald Stark and Jean Stark (presumably this is her married name; maiden name unknown if different).
Her maiden surname is almost certainly also Stark. Married women in Scotland do not lose their own surnames; they are referred to in legal documents as xxx yyy or zzz, where xxx is their given name, yyy their maiden name and zzz their husband's surname. This is why you get the mother's surname in Scottish baptism records if you get a mother's name at all.