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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: gratuation on Sunday 15 January 17 18:33 GMT (UK)

Title: help with finding Eliza Susannah Browne
Post by: gratuation on Sunday 15 January 17 18:33 GMT (UK)
can i call upon you clever people to help me, Im stuck on this

Eliza susannah browne ( could be brown) was born in poplar 1831 I've got this information from the census but i can't find a birth from her . All i know is she was married to a william richards according to the census.

thanks for reading this
Title: Re: help with finding Eliza Susannah Browne
Post by: Ladyhawk on Sunday 15 January 17 18:49 GMT (UK)
Just in case this helps

Is this their marriage?

27 Oct 1855 St Leonard St Mary, Bromley
William Richards father Joseph
Eliza Susanna Brown father John Brown


Title: Re: help with finding Eliza Susannah Browne
Post by: Ladyhawk on Sunday 15 January 17 18:50 GMT (UK)
There's this baptism

Eliza Susannah Browne
Baptism Date:   1 May 1833 Bromley St Leonard St Mary
Borough:   Tower Hamlets
Father's name:   John Browne occ Mariner
Mother's name: Sarah Browne
Register Type:   Parish Registers
Title: Re: help with finding Eliza Susannah Browne
Post by: Ladyhawk on Sunday 15 January 17 18:56 GMT (UK)
From the marriage cert. of William Richards to Eliza Susannah Browne

Both single
Abode Bromley
Eliza's father John Brown is noted as deceased
Husband Williamís occ ropemaker as is his father Joseph
Witnesses Charles Middleton & James Edwards

Is this the correct couple?

EDITED

occ is Rope maker
Title: Re: help with finding Eliza Susannah Browne
Post by: Ladyhawk on Sunday 15 January 17 18:59 GMT (UK)
Baptism of their son gives father's occupation as a Rope maker

Joseph Clement RICHARDS
Baptism Date:   17 Jan 1858 Limehouse St Anne
Father   William Richards Mother   Eliza Susannah
Register Type:   Parish Registers

GRO indexes indicate mmn BROWN
Joseph Clement RICHARDS   
1858  M Quarter in POPLAR  Volume 01C  Page 640

Added

Private baptism
Susannah Richards
Baptism    26 Aug 1862
FatherWilliam Richards occ ropemaker labourer  Mother   Eliza Susannah
Parish or Poor Law Union:   Ratcliffe
Borough:   Tower Hamlets

can i call upon you clever people to help me, Im stuck on this

Eliza susannah browne ( could be brown) was born in poplar 1831

I've got this information from the census but i can't find a birth from her .

All i know is she was married to a william richards according to the census.


Can you give the details of the censuses you have so we can check against info. already given

Was William Richard's occupation a Rope maker?
Title: Re: help with finding Eliza Susannah Browne
Post by: gratuation on Sunday 15 January 17 19:27 GMT (UK)
thank you clever people knew i could reply on you, is there a maiden name mentioned for Elizas mother anywhere but i now have her fathers name  at least

G

Title: Re: help with finding Eliza Susannah Browne
Post by: Ladyhawk on Monday 16 January 17 18:39 GMT (UK)
is there a maiden name mentioned for Elizas mother anywhere but i now have her fathers name  at least

Will take a look to see if I can find a possible marriage for a John Brown to a Sarah

From the 1871 census RG10; Piece: 574; Folio: 28; Page: 50
There's a widowed William RICHARDS occ Lab. & his 3 children Joseph, Henry & Susannah
are living with Clement 60 & Mary JOHNSON 71

Is this the correct family?

It it is slightly confused as 1871c says William Richards is son-in-law   ???

Eliza Susannah Brown was born 1833 & Mary Ann Brown & John Brown born much earlier

This appears to be Mary's first marriage

1 May 1833 St Leonard St Mary, Bromley
Mary Ann BROWNE to William HAINES
Borough:   Tower Hamlets

And her second marriage

6 Dec 1846 St Dunstan and All Saints, Stepney
Clement John JOHNSON f/a widower father John both occ. Carpenter
Mary Ann HAINES f/a widow father John BROWN occ Mariner
Witnessed by John BROWN (x) & Elisa BROWN

1861 RG 9; Piece: 306; Folio: 61; Page: 19
Clement 47, Mary 57 (1804) Poplar & Mary JOHNSON 20
living with them appears to be her brother John BROWN 50 (1811) Poplar

Will see if I can find anything else and get back to you
Title: Re: help with finding Eliza Susannah Browne
Post by: gratuation on Monday 16 January 17 18:52 GMT (UK)
Hi thank you so much will need to read it again to take it all in

I'm a tad confused I'm sure it will come clear soon thanks for looking this up for me it's very much appreciated
 G
Title: Re: help with finding Eliza Susannah Browne
Post by: Ladyhawk on Monday 16 January 17 20:10 GMT (UK)
I'm a tad confused I'm sure it will come clear soon thanks for looking this up for me it's very much appreciated


Do you agree with the following info. so far?

1833 bpt. Eliza Susannah BROWNE father John occ mariner mother Sarah

1855 Eliza Susanna BROWN father John occ mariner married William RICHARDS

1861 c RG 9; Piece: 301; Folio: 152; Page: 16
        William Richard wife Eliza children Joseph & Henry

birth entries of their children:- mmn from GRO indexes

1858 Poplar Joseph Clement Richards mmn BROWN
1860 Pancras Henry mmn BROWN
1861 Poplar Susanna Richards mmn BROWN
1864 Stepney Eliza Susanna Richards mmn BROWN

death entries

1866 Stepney Eliza S Richards died age 35 (1831)
1867 Poplar  Eliza Susanna Richards died age 2

1871 RG10; Piece: 574; Folio: 28; Page: 50
        William Richards widowed children Joseph, Henry & Susannah living with
        Clement & Mary Ann Johnson

This might be son Henry's baptism although father's occ labourer

Henry Charles Edward Richards
Baptism 13 Nov 1859 Bow Common St Paul
Father William Richards Mother  Eliza Suzanna
Borough:   Tower Hamlets

Thereís an 1886 marriage to a Susan Fletcher
Henry RICHARDS age 20 occ conductor, 78 Culloden St.,
father William Richards occ Ropemaker (deceased)
one witness is Sarah Richards

Title: Re: help with finding Eliza Susannah Browne
Post by: gratuation on Monday 16 January 17 20:32 GMT (UK)
Wow yes that all looks correct
Thanks
G
Title: Re: help with finding Eliza Susannah Browne
Post by: gratuation on Monday 16 January 17 20:41 GMT (UK)
The bit that I'm confused about is who is Eliza  brown born 1833 her father was John but I can't find anything about her mother

Thanks again
G
Title: Re: help with finding Eliza Susannah Browne
Post by: Joseph2 on Tuesday 26 December 17 12:15 GMT (UK)
Hi - I am researching this family and have a tree on Ancestry. I am descended from John Brown & Susannah's daughter Elizabeth Brown who married Joseph James Richards - their son was William Richards who married his cousin Eliza Susanna Brown (as if it wasn't complicated enough!)

I think that Eliza Susanna Brown was the daughter of John Brown's son John Brown and a short-lived marriage to Sarah (nee Spencer) who died before 1841. He could possibly have been a mariner like his father, but later became a blacksmith. He is shown as unmarried on the 1851 census, but he could have been a widower. This may account for him and his (possible) daughter Eliza Susanna living with his mother Susannah and sister Mary Ann in 1841 and subsequently Mary Ann and her second husband Clement Johnson. - however, this is only a theory!!

It does not help matters that there seems to have been 2 'John Brown & Susannah' couples living in close proximity - with baptisms at Stepney and Poplar - all that distinguishes them are the occupations of mariner and labourer - but the entries are inconsistent.

Happy to share info with anyone interested in the Richards & Brown families.
Kind regards and Season's Greetings!