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Research in Other Countries => South Africa => Topic started by: Wexflyer on Wednesday 18 January 17 02:44 GMT (UK)
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My great-uncle Bartholomew Walsh was blown up (by the British) at a place called "Zand River Farm" outside Bethlehem, in December 1900. Is there any way to determine exactly where that is/was?
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I found this http://za.geoview.info/sand_river,957776
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And this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sand_River_Convention
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I found this http://za.geoview.info/sand_river,957776
Thanks for the links. There is a Zand or Sand River in SA, but it is far from Bethlehem. The particular farm where my great-uncle came to grief was specifically stated to be outside Bethlehem.
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Hi
You might find this link of interest then:
http://www.warmuseum.ca/cwm/exhibitions/boer/battlezandriver_e.shtml
Bethlehem is a town in the Free State about 250km from Bloemfontein
and this one, I think this may be your man
Walsh B 5871 Private 1st Battalion
Demise: Killed accidentally 30 Dec 1900
Place: Zand River Farm Nr
Source: In Memoriam by S Watt Royal Irish Regiment
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Walsh B 5871 Private 1st Battalion
Demise: Killed accidentally 30 Dec 1900
Place: Zand River Farm Nr
Source: In Memoriam by S Watt Royal Irish Regiment
Yes, that is him. Blown up by a British shell...
I was also aware that there was a battle at the Zand River in 1900, but my understanding is that this "Zand River Farm" is at a distance from the actual Zand River.
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There are 4 Zandrivier farms listed on the Boer War database, two of which are in the Free State one in the Bethlehem area the other in Senekal district which is a town situated on the banks of the Sand River.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senekal.
It is possible that the farm was used as a military base, many were.
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Could it be coincidence? Zand River battle was in early 1900, your man's death was December 1900 - not necessarily a connection.
Zand River Farm could be just a name - like the name of any other farm in South Africa - "Madrid" or "Sunnyside" or "Stocklands".
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Could it be coincidence? Zand River battle was in early 1900, your man's death was December 1900 - not necessarily a connection.
Zand River Farm could be just a name - like the name of any other farm in South Africa - "Madrid" or "Sunnyside" or "Stocklands".
Yes. To be clear, I think that "Zand River" is just the name of the farm, and that it is not directly connected to or located at the river of the same name.
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There are 4 Zandrivier farms listed on the Boer War database, two of which are in the Free State one in the Bethlehem area the other in Senekal district which is a town situated on the banks of the Sand River.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senekal.
It is possible that the farm was used as a military base, many were.
Indeed, a reference work I consulted on the location of British army regiments lists "Zand River Farm" as a base during the Boer War. But of course it does not say exactly where that farm is or was. Can you point me to that Boer War database? The one in the Bethlehem area is the one I want. Thanks.
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Is it possible to trace the movements of his regiment at that time to get a better idea of the actual area?
I use this one it is very informative, where I found your man.
www.angloboerwar.com
and this one where I found the farm listings
http://www2.lib.uct.ac.za/mss/bccd/
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Is it possible to trace the movements of his regiment at that time to get a better idea of the actual area?
Thanks for the reference. I have a copy of the regimental history, but it does not mention the incident in which he died, or the location. Using his date of death, I did find reference to fighting at this location on the day he died on a web page for a different regiment. Several British soldiers were killed in action there on the same date.
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Senekal is only 68 from Bethlehem. It may be that at one time it was all one farm....
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Have found a reference to Zandrivier Farm in 1852 which gives it's location as being halfway between Bloemfontein and the Vaal River. The Vaal River forms the boundary between the Free State and what was then the Transvaal. Looking at a map it would put it more or less in the area of Senekal.
Parts of Bethlehem suburbs are listed on title deeds as being part of the farm Zandrivier.
I hope you can read the article:
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Have found a reference to Zandrivier Farm in 1852 which gives it's location as being halfway between Bloemfontein and the Vaal River.....
I hope you can read the article:
Thank you, much obliged! I can read the article.
I have always wondered if poor old Barty (Bartholomew) was buried on the farm. I would love to visit sometime.
One last question. In Ireland farms ranges from a few acres (small) to tens of acres (medium) to maybe 100-200 acres (largest). By contrast, I get the feeling that the South African farms may be many kilometers in extent! Is that correct?
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By British standards our farms are very large, even the small ones. Our commecial farms can be many thousand hectares and a small farm only 1 000 hectares. So the distance of 68km from Senekal to Bethlehem could indeed have been one farm.
I think the farm, as many have as urban sprawl continues, been portioned up to accomodate the spreading towns and cities.
I can't find a grave for him, but there are many small graveyards and photographing and transcribing them is an ongoing task, especially the small farm graveyards.
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... the distance of 68km from Senekal to Bethlehem could indeed have been one farm....
I can't find a grave for him, but there are many small graveyards and photographing and transcribing them is an ongoing task, especially the small farm graveyards.
That is astonishing. I guessed the farms in SA would belarger, but would never have thought they could be that large. 68 km is about the entire breadth of my native Co. Wexford!
As for a grave, a few years ago someone sent me a link to a list of British army burials in Bethlehem. Bartholomew Walsh was not among them. Given how he died, I wonder if there was anything left to bury.
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It is quite a sight to see especially driving throught the Free State which is so flat you can see tomorrow comming and these fields of mielies(corn) and sunflowers that to stretch for miles on either side of the road. The sunflowers are particularly spectacular when the entire field is in bloom. In Natal, where I live, it is mainly dairy farms with herds of about 400 cows, but the Eastern Cape can have around 500 cows, these provinces having more water than the inland ones.
There are many memorials to the War, I'm checking a site now to see if he pops up on any of the plaques that were erected.
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Before we close on this subject, I just thought I should point out something that I think is remarkable. Bartholomew (Barty) Walsh was killed just two days before the end of the 19th century, with the Famine Queen (Victoria) still on the throne in England. Today, 117 years later, several of his nieces, including my mother, are thankfully still with us.
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Have checked all the Boer memorials for British soldiers that have to date been transcribed and Bartholomew isn't amongst them. But as said it is an ongoing task so if you want to you can check this site www.eggsa.org to see if he doesn't appear in the future.
Wonderful to have family still around, make good use of their knowledge of the family history before it's too late. ;)
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There was a farm named Zandrivier which was owned by a Mr. de Jongh in the late 1800's / early 1900's situated approximately 35kms from Bethlehem on the road to Bloemfontein. The farm is now the site of a village called Paul Roux.
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Hi Wexflyer, the farm is by the town of Paul Roux, the town was only founded in 1909, so before then the nearest settlement to the farm was Bethlehem. The farm is linked to the sand river which is in the vicinity and must either border it or run through it.
This is a map from the demarcation board:
http://www.demarcation.org.za/index.php/downloads/statistics/free-state-5/fs192-2/9481-fs192-2011/file (http://www.demarcation.org.za/index.php/downloads/statistics/free-state-5/fs192-2/9481-fs192-2011/file)
I suspect that little if any of the farm remains. It looks like the town has taken over at least part if not all of it.
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Hi Wexflyer, the farm is by the town of Paul Roux, the town was only founded in 1909, so before then the nearest settlement to the farm was Bethlehem. The farm is linked to the sand river which is in the vicinity and must either border it or run through it.
This is a map from the demarcation board:
http://www.demarcation.org.za/index.php/downloads/statistics/free-state-5/fs192-2/9481-fs192-2011/file (http://www.demarcation.org.za/index.php/downloads/statistics/free-state-5/fs192-2/9481-fs192-2011/file)
I suspect that little if any of the farm remains. It looks like the town has taken over at least part if not all of it.
I really must apologize for not having thanked you for this at the time, I was distracted. Much appreciated.
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There was a farm named Zandrivier which was owned by a Mr. de Jongh in the late 1800's / early 1900's situated approximately 35kms from Bethlehem on the road to Bloemfontein. The farm is now the site of a village called Paul Roux.
I really must apologize for not having thanked you for this at the time, I was distracted. Much appreciated.