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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Topic started by: pergamond on Saturday 28 January 17 08:02 GMT (UK)
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I am researching George Riddell born about 1817. His cemetery record states that he was born in Camberwell, Wales. I can't find a Camberwell in Wales. Can anyone help, please?
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There is a Camberwell in New South Wales?
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Yes, thanks. But I'm sure it was the country of Wales.The family moved to Scotland soon after.
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Where was he buried. Is the information from the burial register or a headstone
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There's a baptism of a George Riddell in Carmarthen in 1817 - could it be an error on the source of your info?
You say they moved to Scotland soon afterwards - do you have more details of the family - patents, sibs, etc.
* sorry misread the info - but my query still stands.
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Parents are John Riddle and Janet Stafford. Does that fit the Carmarthen birth?
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No - I'll do some more checking.
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Thank you Gadget. Rosie99, George was buried at the Northern Cemetery in Dunedin, Otago in New Zealand in 1882. The info was on the Cemetery Records. It could be inaccurate. His death cert doesn't mention Camberwell, just Wales, as the place of birth.
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From his Death Cert how many years had he been in NZ?
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George had been in NZ for 25 yrs. This fits with the shipping info. He arrived in Otago via Melbourne in Dec 1858 with his wife, child and brother.
Just to add interest, I have found a Robert Riddell born in 1823 in Cardiganshire, Wales, parents John Riddell and Janet Stavert. This Riddell family also moved to Scotland. I can't find any evidence that they were related, although they all lived in a similar part of Scotland.
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Is he the Assistant Shepherd in Sutherland ,in 1851, living with the Robson family :
Lairg
George Riddel, 30, b. Wales
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sorry to bore you with questions but was the Ship "Queen" that George and Family arrived on?
As I found this Riddell ref;
RIDDELL, THOMAS, born at Bonar Bridge, Scotland. Emigrated
to Australia, but, not liking the place, came to Otago in 1858
in the s.s. "Queen." Settlcd at Oan~aru. nlherr he was shepherding for Hon. 3f. Holmes on the Awamoa Estate.
Married in Oamaru. Shifted to Wharepa, buying his brotherin-law's
farm. Shortly after his death Mrs. Riddell shifted
to Balclntl~a.
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RIDDLE, Thomas, born Inverness-shire, Scotland April 26, 1828 arrived s.s. Queen 1858 shepherd, Horseshoe Bush then on Totara estate; last 28 years farming, Warepa. Family, two sons, three daughters
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1851 Census
Edderton, Ross and Cromarty, Scotland
John Riddle, 64, Sheepmanager, born Fedlarte, Roxburgh
Janet Riddle, 54, born Katers, Roxburgh
Thomas Riddle, 22, born Glcarry, inssshire
James Riddle, 20, born Farr, Sutherland
Jane Riddle, 18, born Golspie, Sutherland
Grace Mcintosh, 21
John Henderson, 18
Donald Duff, 21
1841 same place;
John Riddle 55, Shepherd
Janet Riddle 40
John Riddle 20
Helen Riddle 15
Thomas Riddle 12
James Riddle 10
Jane Riddle 7
Name: Jane Riddle
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 6 Mar 1833
Birth Place: Golspie,Sutherland,Scotland
Father: John Riddle
Mother: Janet Stevat
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That family certainly fits with the George Riddle that I found in Lairg on the 1851 in Lairg. Not sure what the family were doing in Wales though - maybe a shepherding job and then returned. Some of my Scottish ancestors moved from Scotland to Wales in 1830s.
Maybe connected to the Sutherland clearances.
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Gadget - yes, I have always presumed that George Riddle, assistant shepherd with the Robson family in Lairg 1851 was the man, in the absence of any other.
Trish - I assumed this was George's Riddle family. Jane is interesting - when I see those facts together Janet Stevat must be my Janet Stafford. And there is a birth 18 Dec 1836 to Janet Stavert and John Riddle, also Golspie Parish. So maybe there is a link here to James Riddell born 1829 to John Riddell and Janet Stavert?? (Riddell/Riddle) I can't find James's birth.
And Trish again - yes, this Thomas is George's brother, and they arrived on the Queen.
What I would really like is is info on the parents John Riddle and Janet Stafford/Stavert/Stevat, and had wondered if the Welsh birth would help. But now I tend to agree with Gadget that it was probably a shepherding job that took them there.
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I've just said Stavert and Stevat aloud (with a soft t) and can hear it as Stafford - try it and see what you think
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Yes, very close in sound. Most probably the same person.
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I've looked on SP but can't see a baptism for Janet in Rox so far.
Do you know when/whereJohn and Janet died?
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No, I've never been able to trace them.
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This might be Janet in 1861
Dearly Burn, Cavers, Rox - wrongly transcribed - should be Wilton
George C Hardie, 39
Elizabeth, 48
Catherine, 74 - wrongly transcribed - should be 14
Margaret, 12
Robert, 9
Thomas, 7
Janet Riddle, 65, sister in law, pauper, b. Cavers, Rx ( Cavers transcribed as Katers in 1851)
Agness Murray, 58
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Oh yes! I was told that Katers was Cavers. So Elizabeth Hardie would have been her sister...?
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I mean Catherine. Catherine Stafford/Stavert/ Stevat.
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Here's a link to the 1861 household:
http://www.scottishindexes.com/61transcript.aspx?houseid=81001032
There are a few deaths registered in Rox - none Cavers (1861-80). These two look possibles, both reg Jedburgh
1867 Age 74 (as Riddell)
1868 Age 75 (-do-)
Might be worth checking on burials.
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The other transcript has Catherine as aged 14 and daughter, so it would be Elizabeth.
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Thanks so much. However it says Janet was unmarried, rather than a widow.
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You might have to look at the original - w is often misread as un
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Thank you Gadget for all your help.
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Just to add that I've found the same family in 1851 and Janet is with them - also as single so it doesn't seem likely - strange that they're the same age and b. same place - what a coincidence :-\
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However a lot could have happened by the time of the 1861 census.
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Sorry, I see what you mean! You mean the Hardie family.
So Janet Stafford/Stevart and Janet Riddle were both born in Cavers at about the same time. I suppose Janet was a common name, and there were quite a few Riddles - they were probably related by marriage.
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John Riddle was born Fodderty, Ross and Cromarty - it's a good way from Roxburghshire - so don't think they were related.
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From the 1851 census John was born in Fedlarte (Jedburgh?), Roxburgh, in 1787.
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Sorry -I was sure Trish's transcription said b. R & C. There are a few possibles for John in Roxburghshire on Family search but not enough info to go on and I'm sure you've looked there.
Re Camberwell- the nearest that I can come up with which is also sheep country is LLandderfel
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/MER/Llandderfel
A non-Welsh pronounciation would be something like Clandervel* I know that some Scots went to that area.
* not how it is pronounced by Welsh people ;D
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That's amazing. Thanks so much. That is probably where the 'Camberwell' came from.
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At least some progress has been made :)
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Definitely. Thanks to both of you. :)