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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Kerry => Topic started by: dragonlady403 on Saturday 28 January 17 12:05 GMT (UK)
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Good day, I wonder if someone could plse assist with providing a resource/info to learn more about a job/position title in Kerry around 1850?
My gr grandmother's father Patrick O'Connor (wife Ellen Fenton/Fegneighty) was listed as a Waterworks Timekeeper on her death certificate.
I haven't nailed down exactly where they lived in Kerry, other than the fact her obit states "she was born 7 miles from killarney". So I assume her father worked somewhere in that location. ???
Does anyone know where he is likely to have worked with that job title?
Thanks as always and regards,
Carol
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Did Patrick's daughter die in 1850? Unfortunately, civil registration of deaths didn't start until 1864 in Ireland.
This Hansard report mentions Waterworks in Killarney being constructed but it's 1884-
http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1884/jul/18/public-health-ireland-killarney
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Luckily some records are easily found ;)
Johanna O'Connor born 1852- parents Patrick Connor & Ellen Finaghty- see here (https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/a847dc0238001?b=https%3A%2F%2Fchurchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie%2Fchurchrecords%2Fsearch.jsp%3Fname2fm%3Dellen%26name2l%3Dfenton%26namefm%3Dpatrick%26namel%3Do%2527connor%26location%3Dkerry%26yyfrom%3D%26yyto%3D%26submit%3DSearch%26sort%3D%26pageSize%3D100%26diocese%3D%26parish%3D%26century%3D1800%26decade%3D%26ddBfrom%3D%26ddMfrom%3D%26ddDfrom%3D%26mmBfrom%3D%26mmMfrom%3D%26mmDfrom%3D%26yyBfrom%3D%26yyMfrom%3D%26yyDfrom%3D%26ddBto%3D%26ddMto%3D%26ddDto%3D%26mmBto%3D%26mmMto%3D%26mmDto%3D%26yyBto%3D%26yyMto%3D%26yyDto%3D%26locationB%3D%26locationM%3D%26locationD%3D%26member0%3D%26member1%3D%26member2%3D%26member3%3D%26member4%3D%26member5%3D%26member6%3D%26member7%3D%26member8%3D%26member9%3D%26namef0%3D%26namef1%3D%26namef2%3D%26namef3%3D%26namef4%3D%26namef5%3D%26namef6%3D%26namef7%3D%26namef8%3D%26namef9%3D%26namel0%3D%26namel1%3D%26namel2%3D%26namel3%3D%26namel4%3D%26namel5%3D%26namel6%3D%26namel7%3D%26namel8%3D%26namel9%3D%26keyword%3D%26event%3DB)
Patrick born 1855- see here (https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/587c690238206?b=https%3A%2F%2Fchurchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie%2Fchurchrecords%2Fsearch.jsp%3Fname2fm%3Dellen%26name2l%3Dfenton%26namefm%3Dpatrick%26namel%3Do%2527connor%26location%3Dkerry%26yyfrom%3D%26yyto%3D%26submit%3DSearch%26sort%3D%26pageSize%3D100%26diocese%3D%26parish%3D%26century%3D1800%26decade%3D%26ddBfrom%3D%26ddMfrom%3D%26ddDfrom%3D%26mmBfrom%3D%26mmMfrom%3D%26mmDfrom%3D%26yyBfrom%3D%26yyMfrom%3D%26yyDfrom%3D%26ddBto%3D%26ddMto%3D%26ddDto%3D%26mmBto%3D%26mmMto%3D%26mmDto%3D%26yyBto%3D%26yyMto%3D%26yyDto%3D%26locationB%3D%26locationM%3D%26locationD%3D%26member0%3D%26member1%3D%26member2%3D%26member3%3D%26member4%3D%26member5%3D%26member6%3D%26member7%3D%26member8%3D%26member9%3D%26namef0%3D%26namef1%3D%26namef2%3D%26namef3%3D%26namef4%3D%26namef5%3D%26namef6%3D%26namef7%3D%26namef8%3D%26namef9%3D%26namel0%3D%26namel1%3D%26namel2%3D%26namel3%3D%26namel4%3D%26namel5%3D%26namel6%3D%26namel7%3D%26namel8%3D%26namel9%3D%26keyword%3D%26event%3DB)
Anne born 1849- see here (https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/3e24550237760?b=https%3A%2F%2Fchurchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie%2Fchurchrecords%2Fsearch.jsp%3Fname2fm%3Dellen%26name2l%3Dfenton%26namefm%3Dpatrick%26namel%3Do%2527connor%26location%3Dkerry%26yyfrom%3D%26yyto%3D%26submit%3DSearch%26sort%3D%26pageSize%3D100%26diocese%3D%26parish%3D%26century%3D1800%26decade%3D%26ddBfrom%3D%26ddMfrom%3D%26ddDfrom%3D%26mmBfrom%3D%26mmMfrom%3D%26mmDfrom%3D%26yyBfrom%3D%26yyMfrom%3D%26yyDfrom%3D%26ddBto%3D%26ddMto%3D%26ddDto%3D%26mmBto%3D%26mmMto%3D%26mmDto%3D%26yyBto%3D%26yyMto%3D%26yyDto%3D%26locationB%3D%26locationM%3D%26locationD%3D%26member0%3D%26member1%3D%26member2%3D%26member3%3D%26member4%3D%26member5%3D%26member6%3D%26member7%3D%26member8%3D%26member9%3D%26namef0%3D%26namef1%3D%26namef2%3D%26namef3%3D%26namef4%3D%26namef5%3D%26namef6%3D%26namef7%3D%26namef8%3D%26namef9%3D%26namel0%3D%26namel1%3D%26namel2%3D%26namel3%3D%26namel4%3D%26namel5%3D%26namel6%3D%26namel7%3D%26namel8%3D%26namel9%3D%26keyword%3D%26event%3DB)
Timothy born 1842- see here (https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/c89ba90236865?b=https%3A%2F%2Fchurchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie%2Fchurchrecords%2Fsearch.jsp%3Fname2fm%3Dellen%26name2l%3Dfenton%26namefm%3Dpatrick%26namel%3Do%2527connor%26location%3Dkerry%26yyfrom%3D%26yyto%3D%26submit%3DSearch%26sort%3D%26pageSize%3D100%26diocese%3D%26parish%3D%26century%3D1800%26decade%3D%26ddBfrom%3D%26ddMfrom%3D%26ddDfrom%3D%26mmBfrom%3D%26mmMfrom%3D%26mmDfrom%3D%26yyBfrom%3D%26yyMfrom%3D%26yyDfrom%3D%26ddBto%3D%26ddMto%3D%26ddDto%3D%26mmBto%3D%26mmMto%3D%26mmDto%3D%26yyBto%3D%26yyMto%3D%26yyDto%3D%26locationB%3D%26locationM%3D%26locationD%3D%26member0%3D%26member1%3D%26member2%3D%26member3%3D%26member4%3D%26member5%3D%26member6%3D%26member7%3D%26member8%3D%26member9%3D%26namef0%3D%26namef1%3D%26namef2%3D%26namef3%3D%26namef4%3D%26namef5%3D%26namef6%3D%26namef7%3D%26namef8%3D%26namef9%3D%26namel0%3D%26namel1%3D%26namel2%3D%26namel3%3D%26namel4%3D%26namel5%3D%26namel6%3D%26namel7%3D%26namel8%3D%26namel9%3D%26keyword%3D%26event%3DB)
Ellen born 1839- see here (https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/a041a10235986?b=https%3A%2F%2Fchurchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie%2Fchurchrecords%2Fsearch.jsp%3Fname2fm%3Dellen%26name2l%3Dfenton%26namefm%3Dpatrick%26namel%3Do%2527connor%26location%3Dkerry%26yyfrom%3D%26yyto%3D%26submit%3DSearch%26sort%3D%26pageSize%3D100%26diocese%3D%26parish%3D%26century%3D1800%26decade%3D%26ddBfrom%3D%26ddMfrom%3D%26ddDfrom%3D%26mmBfrom%3D%26mmMfrom%3D%26mmDfrom%3D%26yyBfrom%3D%26yyMfrom%3D%26yyDfrom%3D%26ddBto%3D%26ddMto%3D%26ddDto%3D%26mmBto%3D%26mmMto%3D%26mmDto%3D%26yyBto%3D%26yyMto%3D%26yyDto%3D%26locationB%3D%26locationM%3D%26locationD%3D%26member0%3D%26member1%3D%26member2%3D%26member3%3D%26member4%3D%26member5%3D%26member6%3D%26member7%3D%26member8%3D%26member9%3D%26namef0%3D%26namef1%3D%26namef2%3D%26namef3%3D%26namef4%3D%26namef5%3D%26namef6%3D%26namef7%3D%26namef8%3D%26namef9%3D%26namel0%3D%26namel1%3D%26namel2%3D%26namel3%3D%26namel4%3D%26namel5%3D%26namel6%3D%26namel7%3D%26namel8%3D%26namel9%3D%26keyword%3D%26event%3DB)
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Mary born 1845- see here (https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/63dcbd0237364?b=https%3A%2F%2Fchurchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie%2Fchurchrecords%2Fsearch.jsp%3Fname2fm%3Dellen%26name2l%3Dfenton%26namefm%3Dpatrick%26namel%3Do%2527connor%26location%3Dkerry%26yyfrom%3D%26yyto%3D%26submit%3DSearch%26sort%3D%26pageSize%3D100%26diocese%3D%26parish%3D%26century%3D1800%26decade%3D%26ddBfrom%3D%26ddMfrom%3D%26ddDfrom%3D%26mmBfrom%3D%26mmMfrom%3D%26mmDfrom%3D%26yyBfrom%3D%26yyMfrom%3D%26yyDfrom%3D%26ddBto%3D%26ddMto%3D%26ddDto%3D%26mmBto%3D%26mmMto%3D%26mmDto%3D%26yyBto%3D%26yyMto%3D%26yyDto%3D%26locationB%3D%26locationM%3D%26locationD%3D%26member0%3D%26member1%3D%26member2%3D%26member3%3D%26member4%3D%26member5%3D%26member6%3D%26member7%3D%26member8%3D%26member9%3D%26namef0%3D%26namef1%3D%26namef2%3D%26namef3%3D%26namef4%3D%26namef5%3D%26namef6%3D%26namef7%3D%26namef8%3D%26namef9%3D%26namel0%3D%26namel1%3D%26namel2%3D%26namel3%3D%26namel4%3D%26namel5%3D%26namel6%3D%26namel7%3D%26namel8%3D%26namel9%3D%26keyword%3D%26event%3DB)
Daniel born 1841- see here (https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/10b2350236424?b=https%3A%2F%2Fchurchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie%2Fchurchrecords%2Fsearch.jsp%3Fname2fm%3Dellen%26name2l%3Dfenton%26namefm%3Dpatrick%26namel%3Do%2527connor%26location%3Dkerry%26yyfrom%3D%26yyto%3D%26submit%3DSearch%26sort%3D%26pageSize%3D100%26diocese%3D%26parish%3D%26century%3D1800%26decade%3D%26ddBfrom%3D%26ddMfrom%3D%26ddDfrom%3D%26mmBfrom%3D%26mmMfrom%3D%26mmDfrom%3D%26yyBfrom%3D%26yyMfrom%3D%26yyDfrom%3D%26ddBto%3D%26ddMto%3D%26ddDto%3D%26mmBto%3D%26mmMto%3D%26mmDto%3D%26yyBto%3D%26yyMto%3D%26yyDto%3D%26locationB%3D%26locationM%3D%26locationD%3D%26member0%3D%26member1%3D%26member2%3D%26member3%3D%26member4%3D%26member5%3D%26member6%3D%26member7%3D%26member8%3D%26member9%3D%26namef0%3D%26namef1%3D%26namef2%3D%26namef3%3D%26namef4%3D%26namef5%3D%26namef6%3D%26namef7%3D%26namef8%3D%26namef9%3D%26namel0%3D%26namel1%3D%26namel2%3D%26namel3%3D%26namel4%3D%26namel5%3D%26namel6%3D%26namel7%3D%26namel8%3D%26namel9%3D%26keyword%3D%26event%3DB)
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Sorry I should clarify:
She was born Johanna Ellen O'Connor abt 1856 (7 miles from Killarney in County Kerry).
I believe I have most of her siblings (some of whom also ended up in NZ).
She died in Wellington NZ in 1938.
I'm trying to track more info for her parents.
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I think the townland was Kilnanare (Killarney Poor Law Union/civil registration district-
https://www.townlands.ie/kerry/magunihy/kilnanare/kilnanare/kilnanare/
According to Google Maps it's about 10 miles from Killarney.
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I realise you are looking for details of her parents but your initial post only mentioned the date 1850 and we do need to do various searches to locate records on the family.
It's possible the baptism I posted for Johanna born 1852 is her. That record, and the baptisms of siblings, give us a townland name to work with which is one of the key bits of information needed for tracing families in Ireland.
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Yes I agree Aghadowey.. sorry I wasn't specific enough in my first post. Thanks for your patience!
I have thought about Kilnanare (and possibly Firies?) as options... but I haven't been able to figure out what a waterworks timekeeper would be doing in the area. I note there is a large lake called Lough Leane in the area.. I wonder if Patrick may have been employed working there.
I am making my first trip to Ireland in a few weeks (to Castleisland which is where her husband is from) and had hoped to do a bit more work on her family whilst, there so nailing down their location would be most helpful:)
Regards, Carol
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Here's a Patrick Connor died 1898 age 82 from Kealnanare- registrered by grandson Michael-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1898/05835/4652489.pdf
Looks like grandson Michael in Kilnanare in 1901- father Timothy-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Kerry/Kilnanare/Kilnanare/1417783
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Kerry/Kilnanare/Kilnanare/290316
More to come...
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That looks like you're on the right path!!! Super.
Gotta run and pickup grandkids (goodbye to peace and quiet for 24 hours!) BBS. Thanks:)
Regards Carol
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Timothy died 1906-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1906/05551/4557340.pdf
I suspect that if Patrick was timekeeper at waterworks that it was after 1884 when the Killarney one was built.
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That Patrick O'Connor was listed as a farmer died 1898 Johanna's father was a timekeeper. Not sure if they are the same or perhaps just related?
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Johanna died in 1938 which is when his profession was listed.
I assumed (yes I know!) that his last position would have been as a timekeeper because that's what he was listed as historically. That being said, he could have left his position with the Waterworks, bought some land and become a "farmer" I suppose.
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Is there an occupation for her father on Johanna's marriage certificate?
Are you interested in tracing the family forward or just back in time?
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No there was nothing on the marriage cert from NZ. It doesn't even list their parents. I have extensive info going forward... it's going back from Johanna and her husband Daniel Murphy that I am working on.
Regards, Carol
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Just as an aside... Johanna's husband Daniel Murphy is from Castleisland... I've recently discovered this area was considered a "hotbed of insurgency" during the "Troubles".
There was an O'Connor in the area that was mired in an "incident"... I am working my way around this scenario as well.
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That link to Timothy O'Connor seems quite plausible! The name of the informant is an O'Riordan of Keelnanare.... I recall seeing that surname as a sponsor for a couple of Patrick and Ellen's children.
Can you interpret the writing for his cause of death?
Regards, Carol
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I do know that when Johanna was married in NZ it was witnessed by a Michael O'Connor. I have assumed that was her older brother. It that is correct and I have the correct Michael O'Connor, they had a brother Timothy who died in NZ.
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Timothy died 1906-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1906/05551/4557340.pdf
Cause of death- Diarrhea six days no med[ical] att[endant]
I do know that when Johanna was married in NZ it was witnessed by a Michael O'Connor. I have assumed that was her older brother. It that is correct and I have the correct Michael O'Connor, they had a brother Timothy who died in NZ.
If I've got the correct family then Johanna's brother Timothy died in Ireland as above :-\
Might be worth checking in N.Z. for that Michael & Timothy O'Connor to see if you can establish the names of their parents.
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Ok I feretted around to see if I had a death cert for Michael O'Connor. No I don't ---so will follow up on that today if I can.
Johanna went to Blenheim NZ where she married Daniel Murphy. A witness was Michael O'Connor (Blenheim was a VERY small place back then)... this is further info I have on him:
"Mr. Michael O'Connor , Proprietor of “Brookby,” was born on the 29th of September, 1839, near the
Lakes of Killarney, County Kerry, Ireland. He came to New Zealand in the year 1861'.
His sister Johanna arrived in NZ around 1874 (the year Michael O'Connor married Margaret Murphy -- I did wonder if Margaret was related to Johanna's husband Daniel-- in Blenheim).
If this is indeed Johanna's elder brother-- their brother Timothy was definitely in NZ, because there is information linking Michael and Timothy to a specific farm in NZ.
I thought the info I had to link them was fairly strong --but will see if I can obtain his death cert.
Regards, Carol
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Aghadowey - I've ordered the death printouts for Michael O'Connor and Margaret Murphy from NZBDM.
I should have them in a day or two... will follow up on this thread to confirm whether or not he is indeed Johanna's older brother. This should sort out the Timothy O'Connor question as well.
I will keep this thread open until I receive them if that's ok with you and the Administrator?
Regards, Carol
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Hi Aghadowey.. Ok so I managed to locate and obtain copies of the NZ death certs for Michael O'Connor and his wife Margaret Murphy.
Michael is definitely Johanna's older brother... so this would mean it was his brother Timothy in NZ as well, because as far as I can tell, he inherited his brother's farm Brookby, but subsequently lost it in a bankruptcy situation.
Michael had a son Timothy, but he would have been too young for the bankruptcy case. So I think his brother Timothy also lived and died in NZ.
I will be in Kerry in a few days and have spoken to the Castleisland and Tralee libraries who have been exceptionally helpful:) I will visit with them to see what else I can "unearth".
Thanks for your help! ;D
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Will have another look later to see if there's any other clues ;)
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Ta very much!! I'm going to Kerry in a few days. I spoke to the Historian at Tralee Library so I'm hoping to get a bit more info whilst there.
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My gr grandmother's father Patrick O'Connor (wife Ellen Fenton/Fegneighty) was listed as a Waterworks Timekeeper on her death certificate.
/quote]
HI Carol, I came across this myself-it means he was the payroll clerk at the Waterworks. He kept track of the time everyone worked. Hope that helps.
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Thanks FRIRISH.. I know they were near Firies at one point so I guess the waterworks would be in Killarney. I will see if I can check that out.
Thanks:)
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A time keeper was the forerunner of what we now know as the payroll dept.! So you will find this occupation in all sorts of workplaces-my relly was one at a steamship company. So the original name meant the person who kept record of everyone's work time in essence a clerk.