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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Roxburghshire => Topic started by: pergamond on Saturday 18 February 17 09:17 GMT (UK)

Title: Reading an 1851 census record
Post by: pergamond on Saturday 18 February 17 09:17 GMT (UK)
Hi, I'm trying to read the handwriting on an 1851 census, and wondered if someone who knows old Roxburgh place names might be able to help. John Riddle aged 64 born about 1787 in ....? Roxburgh. It has been transcribed as Fedlarte, but I can't find any reference to that name in the past.

The census was taken in Edderton, Ross and Cromarty. I have a copy of the census record, but find the handwriting difficult to decipher.
Title: Re: Reading an 1851 census record
Post by: Gadget on Saturday 18 February 17 09:21 GMT (UK)
Hi

Is it possible for you to put up a  snip of the entry - just the relevant bit, please?

Gadget
Title: Re: Reading an 1851 census record
Post by: pergamond on Saturday 18 February 17 09:24 GMT (UK)
Hi Gadget - I would if I could, but I don't really know how to do that, sorry.
Title: Re: Reading an 1851 census record
Post by: Gadget on Saturday 18 February 17 09:36 GMT (UK)
Attached - the first letter may be a J. Will have a look around a map

Added - I see that Cavers has been spelt with a K
Title: Re: Reading an 1851 census record
Post by: pergamond on Saturday 18 February 17 09:46 GMT (UK)
Thanks Gadget. That was clever of you. I look forward to seeing what you can discover!
Title: Re: Reading an 1851 census record
Post by: Gadget on Saturday 18 February 17 09:47 GMT (UK)
The first part certainly looks like Jed but no way is the second part burgh . I wonder if he said it something like 'Jedbar' and it was written down as Jedbart  :-\

Added - the first letter matches other Js on the page.
Title: Re: Reading an 1851 census record
Post by: Gadget on Saturday 18 February 17 10:00 GMT (UK)
I've been looking through the list of placenames in Roxburgh on the ScotlandsPlaces site and the only others than Jedburgh that look anything like are

Jed neuk
Jedhead
Jedbank

(nothing in the OPR bpts either  :-\   )
Title: Re: Reading an 1851 census record
Post by: Gadget on Saturday 18 February 17 10:05 GMT (UK)
Been looking at another map and took a walk along the Jed Water - think it's this Old Jeddart

http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?x=366870&y=614535&z=120&sv=366870,614535&st=4&ar=y&mapp=map.srf&searchp=ids.srf&dn=802&ax=366870&ay=614535&lm=0

Added - it was called Old Jedward on older maps:

http://maps.nls.uk/view/74428485#zoom=6&lat=7804&lon=6904&layers=BT
Title: Re: Reading an 1851 census record
Post by: hdw on Saturday 18 February 17 16:07 GMT (UK)
I tried looking on Scotlandspeople for a John Riddle born between 1780 and 1790 in Roxburghshire, using the Fuzzy Matching option to cover all variant spellings, and the only hit was John "Riddel", born and baptised on 29th March 1786 at Kelso to William Riddel and his spouse Isobel Lang. So the strange-looking place-name is presumably in Kelso parish.

Harry

copyright image removed
Title: Re: Reading an 1851 census record
Post by: Gadget on Saturday 18 February 17 16:22 GMT (UK)
. So the strange-looking place-name is presumably in Kelso parish.

Harry

Not necessarily. The relevant baptism might not have survived - I think it was also the time of tax on register entries. You'd need to check that this was the same John Riddle/Riddel.

It looks like Jeddart and there is a Jeddart south of Jedburgh (in Jedburgh parish), as I show on the maps.

Gadget
Title: Re: Reading an 1851 census record
Post by: Gadget on Saturday 18 February 17 16:49 GMT (UK)
Have checked on another site and it has been transcribed as Jeddart there as well.  The confusion is the long tail of the g on Invergordon in the entry above.
Title: Re: Reading an 1851 census record
Post by: Gadget on Saturday 18 February 17 19:12 GMT (UK)
pergamond ~

I've just been re-reading your other thread about the family in Wales

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=763927.0

I wondered why I had some refs to Riddells in my previous searches, etc.

Do you have a full list of John and Janet's children in birth order. I see George, Thomas and John. I've found another bptism for John circa 1788  in Kirkton, Rox - father John. 

Gadget
Title: Re: Reading an 1851 census record
Post by: pergamond on Saturday 18 February 17 21:44 GMT (UK)
Thank you so much Gadget - the birthplace will probably have been Jeddart. I was definitely confused by the tail from the 'g' above!

We think that these are the children, in order - John, George, Robert, Jessie (Janet), Walter, Helen, Thomas, Thomas, James, Jane, and Mary.

I'll look for the 1788 baptism in Kirkton.
The 1786 bap in Kelso to William and Isobel is unlikely to be my John, as the names are not in the family. There is a bap in Roberton 1788, father Robert Riddell, and one in Hobkirk 1784, father Walter Riddell.
Title: Re: Reading an 1851 census record
Post by: pergamond on Saturday 18 February 17 21:45 GMT (UK)
And thanks Harry for your contribution. :)
Title: Re: Reading an 1851 census record
Post by: Gadget on Saturday 18 February 17 22:51 GMT (UK)
Here's the Kirkton one:


Kirkton records
February 1788  - Jno Riddel of Newtown, a child baptised - named John

I saw it first on FS - https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VQH8-FYP

It took a while to find onSP - the  search paarametrs are not what they were  :-\


added -forgot to say that there was another John in Jedburgh in 1841 of same age - a candle maker, wife was Marget. They had a daughter Isobel if I remember rightly. He was dead by 1851.
Title: Re: Reading an 1851 census record
Post by: pergamond on Saturday 18 February 17 22:53 GMT (UK)
Thanks. Yes, I've found that! Unpredictable.
Title: Re: Reading an 1851 census record
Post by: M Carter on Tuesday 21 February 17 15:52 GMT (UK)
 The 1851 census reads Jedhart ie the town of Jedburgh   Jedburgh folk pronounce Jedburgh as Jedhart.
M Carter
Title: Re: Reading an 1851 census record
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 21 February 17 15:59 GMT (UK)
Yep - as in Jeddart Justice:

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/jeddart_justice
Title: Re: Reading an 1851 census record
Post by: pergamond on Tuesday 21 February 17 20:56 GMT (UK)
That is so interesting!
Title: Re: Reading an 1851 census record
Post by: terianne on Wednesday 22 February 17 15:41 GMT (UK)
basically means - Jedburgh  - in our dialect its still called  Jedhart/Jeddart by the locals