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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: Chris Cameron on Friday 24 February 17 20:36 GMT (UK)
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I'm trying to locate information on my Great-Great-Grandmother, Elizabeth Ann Jackson. She married my Great-Great-Grandfather (Thomas Thornhill Neagle) in 1862, in Napier. She claimed to be "of age" and born in New Zealand, which would give her year of birth as 1841. However, in her death record, she claimed to be 19 at the time of her marriage.
She died in 1936 in Napier. We believe her father was William Jackson, who is described as a "mariner". We believe she had a sister Caroline and that her mother was Margaret Ann Jackson (nee Hunt). We have information regarding baptism records from Auckland around 1843 for Caroline and Elizabeth Jackson.
We haven't been able to locate any information to confirm her date or place of birth, or any additional details regarding her parents.
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Hello Chriscamnz and welcome to Rootschat....... :)
Might this be the birth of Elizabeth's child?
1876/2705 Neagle Herbert Elizabeth Ann Thomas
This link gives details of information collected at a birth registration, in this case from 12. 10. 1875.
https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/dataCollected/birth
If you order a printout (cheaper than a certificate, may contain more information and can be e-mailed) you may obtain more information than you already have. :)
Minniehaha.
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My Great Grandfather is Herbert's older brother, Thomas William Neagle, born in 1863.
I have the BDM records for the birth of Thomas and Herbert, as well as the 1862 marriage record. Unfortunately, as they both declared themselves 'of age', they weren't required to provide parental details at the time of their marriage.
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Hello,
If Herbert was born in 1876* and you have his birth record, this should provide the following details...
Mother
Name and maiden surname
Age
Birthplace
*Or is this not the correct Herbert?
Minniehaha.
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"...William Jackson, who is described as a "mariner". Where are you seeing this reference?
What names do you see for witnesses on the marriage record, 1862?
Hawkes Bay Weekly Times Apr 1867 p80
The cutter Elizabeth Ann, Captain JACKSON, of Auckland, was totally wrecked at the Tairua Saw Mills on 23rd ult....all hands saved.
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Does this birth belong to your Elizabeth Ann?
1878/12952 Neagle Bertha Jane Annie Thomas
If so, the mother's details (as listed above) must surely show on the registration document......
Minniehaha.
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Hello Chriscamnz
Gosh, she certainly lived to a ripe old age. :)
NZ BDM has her age as 97 years ... and a cemetery record (Park Island) says she died on 4 October 1936 - aged 98 years.
Were you aware that she used the names "Annie Elizabeth NEAGLE" ? [Her death registration and the cemetery listing both show this ... as well as electoral roll listings.
* Given that she lived so long, it seems very likely that her longevity would have been acknowledged... and also perhaps her length of residency in the Hawkes Bay.
* Have you tried looking for a published obituary? Or maybe there are notes for the old settlers in a Hawkes Bay repository ?
~ Lu
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Posted in 2012........
http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.neagle/83.2/mb.ashx
"Married Elizabeth Anne Jackson in Napier 03 November 1862.
Elizabeth Anne was apparently born in Coromandel, New Zealand 13 May 1841".
Additional:
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Jackson-19904
Minniehaha.
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Thanks for the comments.
We are fully aware of the different names that Ann has gone by at various times. To answer other questions
1. Ann's death record gives her father as Jackson, with occupation sailor.
2. I haven't seen that shipwreck information, I'll look into it further.
3. The witnesses for the marriage of Thomas and Ann are Samuel Taylor (Labourer) and Elizabeth Mill or Miller
4. The birth of Herbert in 1876, gives Ann's age as 36, with her place of birth as Auckland. This ties with the probably baptism record that I'm aware of. This would place her year of birth as 1840, and make her of "full age" at her marriage in 1862, but at the time of her death, they gave her age at marriage as 19 (not of age) and place of birth as coromandel. Being 97 in 1936, would give her a birth year of 1839, which would make her 23 at the time of her marriage!
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The following is what I've been told by a woman whose husband is, we believe, descended from Elizabeth's sister.
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found in the Auckland library, in the Catholic register for 1844 (in Latin):
9 Mai - 22 Mai 1841 - Anna - Willelmus Jackson - Maria Anna Hunt - Joannus Fare & Maria Fogarty - J Bap petit Jean (?)
9 Mai - 29 Februa - Carola - Willelmus Jackson - Maria Anna Hunt - Joannus Fare & Maria Fogarty - J Bap petit Jean (?)
So - sisters, both baptised the same day, born to William & Mary Anne Jackson nee Hunt, godparents John(?) Fare & Mary Fogarty. Unfortunately this was pre-internet, & I probably wouldn't have been allowed to take photos. There is also a mention of Sara Jane (Sara Joanna), baptised May 1846 aged 3 months, also in the Catholic register, Auckland, but she is not listed on Mary Anne's death certificate, so maybe she died very young.
I also have an entry for a marriage between William Jackson (mariner) & Mary Anne Hunt on 4 September 1841 at St Pauls C of E church, Auckland. I must have seen the certificate, as I have written that neither could write, & the vicar was John Frederick Churton.
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Hello...
If you've not got them, here are the notices for Annie Elizabeth NEAGLE.
Of no real help as regards her parents but I was in Napier today.
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J Bap petit Jean (?)
Fr Jean-Baptiste PETIT-JEAN
https://mariststudies.org/docs/Jean-Baptiste_Petit-Jean (https://mariststudies.org/docs/Jean-Baptiste_Petit-Jean)
Regards
Beg
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Thanks for that information.
Elizabeth's husband's electoral roll details, in the 1870s, give his qualification, to vote, as "town sections 211 & 213, Clive". I know where modern Clive is, but don't know how to map the historical town sections onto the modern map.
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1870, District Highways Act......
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/HBH18701011.2.20?query=clive
Minniehaha.
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Thanks, I drove through Clive late last year, I'd like to know how the town sections from the 1870s map onto the modern township.
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Auckland Star 29 Nov 1897 p8
JACKSON-On November 28, at the residence of her daughter. Mrs J. MERRICK, St Marys Road, Ponsonby. Eliza, relict of the late James JACKSON, Sergeant E.1.E,, and only daughter of the late John FAIR, Esq., Klenkility, Cork. Ireland ; aged 64 years. R.I.P.— Thames and Home papers please copy. The funeral will leave St. Mary s Road for "Waikomiti to-morrow (Tuesday) at 2.30 p.m. Friends please accept this intimation.
New Zealand Herald 10 Nov 1884 p2
..obit Mrs Maurice KELLY of the Wade........arrived in the colony 1841 with first husband John FAIR....
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JACKSON, ELIZA JANE
Plot : ROMAN CATHOLIC DIVISION B Row 1, Plot 40
Interment Type: Burial
Title: MRS
Surname : JACKSON
Given Names: ELIZA JANE
Age : 63
Gender : Female
Occupation: WIDOW
Date Of Death : 28-Nov-1897
Date Of Burial : 30-Nov-1897
Funeral Director : C LITTLE & SONS LIMITED
Head Stone Details : N/A
The records for C Little and sons LTD are held at the Auckland central library indexes are in research room and the order books are across in the Sir George Grey Special Collections.
The order books have a lot of valuable information in them as they are the handwritten notes made by the FD
Cheers Janette
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town sections 211 & 213, Clive
Clive survey map from 1878
Cnr Pitt Street and Richmond Street
http://tinyurl.com/gs29rjz (http://tinyurl.com/gs29rjz)
Regards
Beg
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Fantastic, thanks, I've searched several times and haven't found that :(.
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JACKSON, ELIZA JANE
Plot : ROMAN CATHOLIC DIVISION B Row 1, Plot 40
Date Of Death : 28-Nov-1897
Waikumete Cemetery records
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9P1-Y9SH-L?mode=g&i=27&cc=2365063 (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9P1-Y9SH-L?mode=g&i=27&cc=2365063)
Same plot... husband James JACKSON ?
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9P1-Y9S6-G?mode=g&i=25&cc=2365063 (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9P1-Y9S6-G?mode=g&i=25&cc=2365063)
James JACKSON - Death Notice
http://tinyurl.com/zlejau7 (http://tinyurl.com/zlejau7)
(Why are we searching this JACKSON line. Is this something to do with a FAIR/FARE connection? See reply #14)
Regards
Beg
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Not sure, my Elizabeth Ann Neagle, née Jackson, was definitely in Napier.
Auckland baptism records suggest her parents were William and Mary (née Hunt) Jackson. When the birth of her youngest son was registered, she gave her place of birth as Auckland, but her obituary and death record say Coromandel. My father says he was always told she was born in the Coromandel.
Her death record says her father was Jackson, sailor. The baptism record says William Jackson, mariner. The date in the baptism record aligns with her being of full age when she married my great-great-grandfather in 1862.
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So Wivenhoe and Janette must have a theory that William JACKSON (mariner) and James JACKSON (RoyalArtillery Sgt) are related, possibly siblings.
Would be nice cos an artillery man is usually pretty easy to trace ... (famous last words)
Regards
Beg
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Ooops sorry I was just giving the cemetery record after Wivenhoe posted the PP death notice
Cheers Janette
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She died in 1936 in Napier. We believe her father was William Jackson, who is described as a "mariner". We believe she had a sister Caroline and that her mother was Margaret Ann Jackson (nee Hunt). We have information regarding baptism records from Auckland around 1843 for Caroline and Elizabeth Jackson.
Auckland baptism records suggest her parents were William and Mary (née Hunt) Jackson.
Why the difference with the supposed mother's name ?
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I tend to go with Mary Ann, but I have seen one reference which describes his wife as "Margaret (sic) Ann Jackson".
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... an artillery man is usually pretty easy to trace
From the thread "JACKSON and FAIR"
"According to details on his discharge papers, James JACKSON (No. 2156) enlisted as a Gunner in the EIC*** artillery, at Westminster, in 1843.
His regiment was Madras Artillery, 1st Battalion Artillery.
They were stationed in Secunderabad 1842-1854 - and in Kamptee 1854-1855.
Also in Aden in 1846 for the defence of the garrison"
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/INDIA/2015-08/1440412544 (http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/INDIA/2015-08/1440412544)
*** EIC = East India Company
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Worth looking at the discharge papers on FindMyPast.
Regards
Beg
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Worth looking at the discharge papers on FindMyPast.
Hi again...
Have been on FindMyPast and seen the discharge papers of the James JACKSON mentioned above (who may or may not be the James JACKSON mentioned by Wivenhoe and, if he is, may or may not be related to your William JACKSON)
James JACKSON was born in 1819 in the parish of Charlton (Chorlton?) in Manchester, Lancashire. He was a bricklayer by trade. He enlisted in 1843 so may well have been at home for the 1841 census. He was discharged in 1862.
"Manchester" and "1862" both tie in nicely with the Waikumete burial record in reply #18
Maybe ask on the Lancashire board for help in finding his family. Would be nice if he had a brother William who went off to sea.
Regards
Beg
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(Why are we searching this JACKSON line. Is this something to do with a FAIR/FARE connection? See reply #14)
Auckland Star 29 Nov 1897 p8
JACKSON-On November 28, at the residence of her daughter. Mrs J. MERRICK, St Marys Road, Ponsonby. Eliza, relict of the late James JACKSON, Sergeant E.1.E,, and only daughter of the late John FAIR, Esq., Klenkility, Cork. Ireland ; aged 64 years.
New Zealand Herald 10 Nov 1884 p2
..obit Mrs Maurice KELLY of the Wade........arrived in the colony 1841 with first husband John FAIR....
From the thread "JACKSON and FAIR"
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/INDIA/2015-08/1440412544 (http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/INDIA/2015-08/1440412544)
At reply # 14 - both death notices refer to a "John FAIR" :
First is "late John FAIR of Klenkility, Cork, Ireland" - the father of Eliza, wife of James JACKSON.
[Nothing to suggest that this John FAIR was ever in New Zealand ?]
* And the researcher (JACKSON/ FAIR thread at Rootsweb) states that Eliza and James Jackson came to New Zealand in early 1864.
* The daughter of Eliza, Mrs J. MERRICK, was Caroline Agnes JACKSON born 17 Oct. 1855 , India (baptised at Kamptee).
Would doubt that the John FAIR of Cork, Ireland, was the person appearing as a sponsor in the 1844 Auckland baptism records of the daughters of William JACKSON and Mary Ann(e) HUNT.
Can't see any obvious connection, or information to suggest, that William JACKSON is linked to James JACKSON ???
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I do however think the Mrs Maurice KELLY of Wade (former wife of John FAIR - arrived 1841), is the Mary FOGARTY co-sponsor with John FAIR of the JACKSON daughters (1844).
See following >
~ Lu
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New Zealand Herald 10 Nov 1884 p2
..obit Mrs Maurice KELLY of the Wade........arrived in the colony 1841 with first husband John FAIR....
Mrs Maurice KELLY was ... Mary KELLY - died 30 October 1884 - aged 70 years.
It is unknown what became of John FAIR (death not yet found) ... or whether in fact Mary was his legitimate wife ?
There is though sufficient info in accessible records to show that Mary KELLY (or FAIR) was the mother of children with the surnames FAIR and KELLY.
"Early Auckland Births" shows >
8 October 1849 - KELLY - Patrick Thomas
F : Morris - sawyer M : Mary nee FOGARTY
19 April 1855 - KELLY - David
F : Maurice - sawyer of Okawitta ? M : Mary nee FOGARTY.
[The child David is buried with his mother at Auckland. Other children John and Margaret FAIR also buried same.]
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http://www.aucklandcity.govt.nz/dbtw-wpd/symondsst/sscem.html
Use above link to access Mary KELLY and FAIR burials.
~ Lu
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Do you have a copy of the 'Intention to Marry' document in respect of Elizabeth Jackson & Thomas Neagle? If not, you could request a look up.
Here is the information you can expect to find on the document; in particular, the age of the bride & groom to be.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=714246.0
Minniehaha.
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Hi Chris Cameron,
I can have a look for this Intention to Marry Notice that Minniehaha referred to. Because it took place prior to 1880 it should be indexed.
Thomas Thornhill NEAGLE to Elizabeth Ann JACKSON, 1862, at Napier.
Spades
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Thanks, I wasn't aware of this document and have now submitted an online request to Archives NZ.
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No worries.
Spades
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It is unknown what became of John FAIR (death not yet found)
Possibly died before 1848...
"The late John FAIR..." mentioned in 1848, along with Mary FAIR and Maurice KELLY
Scroll to bottom of the page
http://tinyurl.com/j9edqzk (http://tinyurl.com/j9edqzk)
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For some reason John and Mary FAIR (early settlers of Albany) were mentioned in an article on page 34 of the Central Leader, May 26 1981. Held at Auckland Library.
NZ Card Index
http://www.aucklandcity.govt.nz/dbtw-wpd/nzcardindex/ (http://www.aucklandcity.govt.nz/dbtw-wpd/nzcardindex/)
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Also saw this in the NZ Card Index. Your William ?
William JACKSON
Claimed land bought at Kaipara pre-1840.
His Old land Claim (no. 1351) is held at National Archives, Wellington
http://tinyurl.com/gvk2tot (http://tinyurl.com/gvk2tot)
Held at Wellington Archives...
Old Land Claims Commission
No.1351 - William JACKSON - Kaipara
https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=18462251 (https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=18462251)
Regards
Beg
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I've finally got a copy of the Intention to Marry, which doesn't shed much more light on things. It confirms her age at the time of her marriage, which is different to what was declared at her death, and tells us the occupations her and Thomas. It also gives us the streets they lived in at the time of their marriage.
Interestingly, in PapersPast, I have also found an inbound shipping passenger list, for 1874, showing that Mrs Neagle and family (5) arrived from Wairoa. i didn't find a matching outbound passenger list. At the same time (1870s), Thomas was on the electoral role because he owned two sections in Clive. I've also found reference to the Neagle children in the school prize giving articles in the local newspapers of the time.
Wairoa had a sawmill and a whaling station in the 1800s. Family "legend" has it that Annie's father was a sailor in the whaling industry, but there are also references to a Jackson involved with the sawmill.
Annie's death record describes her father as "Jackson (sailor)" and through other information we always believed he died in 1860, so why was she returning, with her children, from Wairoa in 1874?
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EDIT .........., so why was she returning, with her children, from Wairoa in 1874?
Hello.
Don't forget in the period you are researching, the way to travel was via the coast. Most early settlers of Poverty Bay and Hawkes Bay did business in Auckland, more so than Wellington. While local press may record "in bound" from the vessel's previous port visited, those in bound may have joined the vessel at Auckland [etc] on it's scheduled trip south.
- Alan.
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I've finally got a copy of the Intention to Marry, which doesn't shed much more light on things. It confirms her age at the time of her marriage, which is different to what was declared at her death, and tells us the occupations her and Thomas. It also gives us the streets they lived in at the time of their marriage.
Would you be kind enough to post here, the details as given in the Intention to Marry Notice, please ?
~ Lu
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I'll try and answer both the questions here. We don't know any of Elizabeth Ann Jackson's history before she was married. From other information we believe (but haven't confirmed) that her parents were William Jackson and Mary Ann Jackson (nee Hunt).
I'm interested in the Hawkes Bay Area as
1. Elizabeth Ann Jackson's death record states she was born in the Coromandel
2. Elizabeth and Thomas were married in Napier
3. All records of their married life (children, electoral roll etc.) are based in Napier
4. Elizabeth Ann and Thomas were both buried in Napier
5. Elizabeth Ann's death record states her father was a sailor
6. Family legend says that Elizabeth Ann's father was involved in whaling
Intention to Marry details
Thomas Neagle (we know he was a soldier in the British army, discharged in Napier)
Ann Jackson
Spinster
Domestic Servant
Age 22 (placing her year of birth around 1840, which ties in with other information we've found)
Dwelling Place: Tennyson St, Napier
Length of Residence: 2 years
Place where marriage to be solemnised: Episcopalian Church, Napier (believed to be the original St John the Evangelist)
Date of Certificate 25 October 1862
Officiating Minister Revd N W St Hill
Their marriage certificate states that they were married on 3 November 1862. Witnessed by Samuel Taylor, Labourer, Napier and Elizabeth [I can't make out the last name].