RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Kirkcudbrightshire => Topic started by: Marie Baker on Monday 06 March 17 23:24 GMT (UK)
-
I would be so grateful for help with this conundrum.
My great great grandfather John Thomson was born 1821 New Abbey, Kirkudbrightshire.
he Married Janet/Jennet Laurie,and had 9 children,Robert,Samuel,Joseph(my great GF) William,James,Elizabeth, Mary,John,and David.All born New abbey/Troqueer.Joseph and William both stone masons.
23 May 1874 Joseph married Jane Wilford in Bradford.
My Grandfather John born Bradford 1875.
Joseph died aged 31 in New abbey,December 1878.Jane Wilford remarried 1882.
I have found a death cert. on Scotlands people which fits Josephs death and all the details, parents etc, BUT, his wife is given as Jane Newlands. Has anyone any further information as I am now totally confused!
-
Hi Marie,
You don't say who the informant was?
Annie
-
Sorry, the informant was his Father, John,present at death.
-
Hi
It's not all that uncommon for wrong names to be given on death certificates, so it's possible that John gave the wrong surname for his daughter in law.
Have you traced Jane Wilford back to see if there is a Newland connection or could any of your Gt grandfathe's brothers have married a Newland?
Gadget
-
Hi again
I've just been looking at the death cert.
What is inteesting is where the brackets are placed. To me it reads:
(married to Jane
(Newlands)
It could possibly be that John didn't know her maiden surname and said Jane living at Newlands. There are a few places called Newlands - I've found one in Dumfriesshire but have not looked at older maps of the area.
Attached is a clip of the entry ~
-
Hi Marie
I note that in the 1871 census there is a probable entry for Joseph Thomson in Bradford - a mason, unmarried age 23 and born in Scotland. The entry immediately below his is for a John Newlands, also a stone mason, age 31, unmarried and born Scotland. Coincidence?
William
-
This may be the connection:
There is a possible marriage of John Newlands to Mary Wilford in Bradford Jul - Sep 1872. He appears to have died in 1880- there is an entry in the probate calendar for him. Might Mary Wilford have been Jane's sister?
William
-
Mother's maiden name given as Wilford on GRO index for John b. 1875.
-
Might Mary Wilford have been Jane's sister?
William
A Mary K and a Jane Wilford (sisters) in Dewsbury on the 1871 ~ RG10/4587/46/39
-
Mary Newlands remarried after John Newlands death
March 15 1881 Tong St James, Parish of Birstal
Charles North Bachelor Tin Smith Worker
Mary Newlands Widow Father's name Thomas Wilford (Veterinary Surgeon). I note that Thomas Wilford is recorded as a castrator in various censuses - I would imagine that veterinary surgeon looks better on a marriage cert!
Mary Wilford is a servant in Bradford in the 1871 census.
William
-
We need info from Jane and Joseph's marriage certificate.
-
There is an online tree which has Jane's father as Thomas and following through the censuses, she seems to have a sister Mary. Jane born 1855, Scalfold, Leicestershire. Second marriage to Thomas Dickinson.
-
The tree looks pretty thorough so it seems that the best explanation is that John, snr, wasn't sure of Jane's maiden name and knew of John and Mary Newlands. The extra bracket on the death cert possibly signifying a pause/uncertainty.
-
Mary North can be found in the censuses 1881 and 1901 (cannot see her in 1891)
1881 age 30 b Selford, Leics.
1901 age 39 b Scalford, Leics. (eldest son called Wilford North b 1882)
So ages are a bit out but place of birth is the same as Jane's - feel pretty sure that she is the Newlands - Wilford connection.
William
-
William ~ the tree that I refer to in my previous post quite clearly shows the relationship.
I don't tend to trust online trees but this one is thoroughly researched, giving census, BMD and probate details.
-
Given that I worked it out without reference to any trees and have arrived at the same conclusions, I agree that the tree to which you refer, and which I can now see, seems sound.
William
-
8)
-
Thank you so much for your help everyone, that seems to have solved that mystery, and now I know I definitely have the correct Joseph. Greatly appreciated.