RootsChat.Com
Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Denbighshire => Topic started by: malijibic on Tuesday 14 March 17 21:00 GMT (UK)
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follow on from
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=765757.0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=766921.msg6190397#msg6190397
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=765525.0
Trying to find the death of Thomas or Mary I came across the baptism and burial of Mary Rowlands,
illegitimate daughter of Palfrey Rowlands, butcher of Llwynmawr in 1791 at Llansanffraid Glyn Ceiriog. My ggggrandfther was a butcher, at Caernarvon.
Also at Llansanffraid Glyn Ceiriog Mary 1776, daughterof Thomas Rowlands of Llwynmawr, shopkeeper by Mary his wife.
There is an Elizabeth there as well
I would like to think that the Thomas and Mary of Havodgynfawr and of Llwynmawr are the same but my knowledge of the geography of Denbighshire is lacking.
I would appreciate it if anyone with more local knowlede oud give an opinion.
Mawr ddiolch
I have have a feeling that
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I'm sure in one of the threads, I found a marriage/baptism in one of the Glyn traean parishes of Llangollen parish - which included `Llwynmawr - it's on the Glynceiriog side of Pontfadog.
I'll check back.
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Havodgynfawr or Cilcychwyn I think - definitely in the Glyn Traean part of the parish:
The parish is cut into the divisions of LlangollenTraian and Glyn-Traian. The L. T. div. comprises the townships of Llangollen-Abbots, Llangollen-Fawr, Llangollan-Fechan, Bache, Cysyllte, Dinbren, EglynysEagle, Pengwern, Rhysgog, Trevor-Issa, Trevor-Ucha, and Vivod; and the G. T. div. comprises those of Cilcochwin, Crogen-Iddon, Croggen-w-Ladies, Erwallo, Havodgynfawr, Nantygwryd, and Talygarth. Acres, 20,176. Real property, £19,876; of which £2041 are in quarries, £285 in railways, and £50 in gas-works. Pop. in 1851,5,260; in 1861,5,799. Houses, 1,296. The property is subdivided. Sychnaint, or Sycharth, is said to have been the seat of Owen Glendower. The living is a vicarage in the diocese of St. Asaph. Valne, £350. * Patron, the Bishop of St. Asaph. The p. curacies of Pontfadog and Trevor are separate benefices.
http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/descriptions/733570
Sometimes spelled Traian and others Traean!
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What confuses me is the Havodgynfawr bapt are in the parish of Llangollen and the Llwynmawr one ar in Llansantfraid Glyn Ceiriog.
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As far as I can remember, Llwynmawr is in the Hafodgynfor/fawr part of the Glyn Traian. I had school friends from there and there was a pub called The Golden Phaesant that family used to go to occasionally. We children sat in the little sun porch and drank vimto :-\
Read up about Llangollen parish - it's vast - see in my link and on Genuki
I come from that area and know it well!
I did link to the description but you probalby missed it
http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/descriptions/733570
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Genuki ~
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/DEN/Llangollen
The ancient parish of Llangollen was divided into three parts : Llangollen Traean, Trefor Traean, and Glyn Traean.
Llangollen Traean contained the townships of Bachau, Cysylltau, Llangollen Abad, Llangollen Fawr, Llangollen Fechan, Feifod, Pengwern and Rhisgog.
Trefor Traean contained the townships of Cilmediw, Dinbren, Eglwysegl, Trefor Isaf and Trefor Uchaf.
Glyn Traean contained the townships of Cilcochwyn, Crogeniddon, Crogenwladus, Erwallo, Hafodgynfor, Nantygwryd, Pennant and Talygarth.
On 15 April 1848, the whole of Glyn Traean, together with the township of Cysylltau from Llangollen Traean, went to form the new parish of Pontfadog. Cysylltau returned to Llangollen in 1870.
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My Llansantffraid Glynceiriog parish records booklet, from Clwyd FHS states:
'It was originally a chapel to Llangollen'
I had a map once that gave the boundaries but it's missing!
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Your Palrey Rowland refs are in the Glynceiriog records but I think they would have used the nearest chapelry/minister. Llwynmawr is on the boundariy of the townships.
PS - the maps that accompany the St Asaph Notitiae on the Nat Library site might have the boundaries.
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Thank you very,very much for your help,
Diolch yn fawr iawn
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Still can't find my map but to confirm Llwynmawr and Hafodgynfor/fawr ~
On the 1851 and 1861, the townhip of Hafodgynfor contains Llwynmawr
See for eg HO107/2509/560/2 and 1861 RG9/4313/13/3
I assume that it's the same in ther censuses
Hope this helps.
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Apologies for not thanking you for your message , I got side tracked with the census and with the tale of the Cilcychwyn oak. My gran would say that I deserve a good telling off.
Diolch yn fawr
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No problem. I remember when I started reading the Chirk Castle History, I got side tracked by that oak :)