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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Armagh => Topic started by: richardanthony on Sunday 19 March 17 14:41 GMT (UK)
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Trying to find details of my grandfather James Flynn and grand mother Mary Caldwell. From his service records in the pioneer corps he was born on 1 August 1903. Would like to confirm birth dates and parents names etc.
My father was Thomas James Flynn [deceased]. He was born at Gillis Row [off Loughlea Road] on 14/03/1929. His parents were James Flynn and Mary Cauldwell. [may be spelt as calwell, caldwell, culwell etc]
He was married to Mary Cauldwell on 5th November 1928 at St Patricks Armagh aged 25 years and was a labourer living at Primrose Hill [Primrose street]. His father was also called James Flynn and was deceased at the time he got married. Mary Cauldwell was 24 years old and was living at Gillis Row and her father was Thomas Caldwell. The witnesses were Francis and Annie Campbell and the priest was Rev Eugene O’Callaghan.
Mary Flynn [nee Cauldwell] died 01/03/1937 aged 33 years from influenza. she was living at Gillis Row.
James Flynn joined the Pioneer Corps in 22 January 1940. His date of birth was given as 1 August 1903 but not sure if this is reliable. He served in France and was originally reported as killed in action but later reported as injured he made his way back to Dunkirk and arrived back in England . He was discharged on medical grounds on 11 September 1941. I am not sure when he returned to Armagh. He was accidentally killed falling down stairs in a public house in Thomas Street whilst living at Dobbin Street.
My dad lived with an aunt when his dad was in sevices and after he died, I think on banbrooke hill but i dont know her name. She had her own children and one boy sufferred from bad asthma.
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There don't seem to be any births for a Flynn in any of the N.I. counties on 1 Aug.1903. It's possible he was registered with a different surname or the date is incorrect.
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perhaps the date he gave the army was wrong. Is there any other way to find this.His father was also called james.
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Closest I can find in 1911 census is James Finn born Scotland living Primrose St.-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Armagh/Armagh_South_Urban/Primrose_Street/325012
Hopefully someone else will have more luck finding him
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Thanks that's thrown another hat in the ring, i hadnt considered they had moved to ireland. I know James lived in primrose street [or primrose hill as it was known locally according to an armagh historian] just before he married Mary Caldwell as its on the marriage certificate.
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Do you have a copy of the civil certificate for the 1928 marriage? you said father James Flynn listed as deceased but is there any occupation listed there?
Closest I can find in 1911 census is James Finn born Scotland living Primrose St.-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Armagh/Armagh_South_Urban/Primrose_Street/325012
There is a death for a Susan Flynn (age 59) 6 Jan.1936 Armagh district.
Also James O'Flynn, tramp (July 1908) & James Flynn, tramp (February 1909) up at court for being drunk
May be not all connected or anything to do with your family but there aren't that many Flynns in Armagh :-\
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Yes he is listed as being [dec] labourer
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Not much help then :-\
I tried to find Primrose St., etc. in Valuation books (which go up to c1929) to see if any familiar names there (might have been staying with relatives when he got married) but can't even find that street. Hopefully someone who known Armagh better will have some ideas
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You need to search under 'Corporation' (don't ask me why, though). Primrose Street 1910 to 1921, for example, is in book Reference: VAL/12/B/10/7B (1910 - 1921), starting at page 93.
On a quick scan through, I can see a 'Susan Flynn', at map ref 28c, local number 34, from what looks to be 1914, which looks to have changed to another person in 1916 (and someone before Susan too, albeit not James).
There may be other Flynn entries I've missed.
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You need to search under 'Corporation' (don't ask me why, though). Primrose Street 1910 to 1921, for example, is in book Reference: VAL/12/B/10/7B (1910 - 1921), starting at page 93.
On a quick scan through, I can see a 'Susan Flynn', at map ref 28c, local number 34, from what looks to be 1914, which looks to have changed to another person in 1916 (and someone before Susan too, albeit not James).
There may be other Flynn entries I've missed.
Susan Flynn at #14 in 1921-1931 book :)
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i found her at number 22 primrose street entry at 1914 down? not sure what the down means but all observations entries on that page have that.
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i found her at number 22 primrose street entry at 1914 down? not sure what the down means but all observations entries on that page have that.
Think it means those houses were knocked down around 1914
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I think the name on the 1911 census was wrong so i am fairly certain it was susan flynn and not finn [she couldnt read and write] According to the census she was married for 10 years so a date of approx 1901 for the marriage and she had 3 children born only two alive by 1911 census. Just the mystery as to why the two children were born in scotland and then returned to armagh. She was born in Co leitrim.
I managed to find two children james and john flynn born in 1903 and 1906 in bonhill [near loch lomond] registration district [civil registration of birth] but no catholic records
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It wasn't uncommon to find people moving back and forth between Scotland and Ireland (especially eastern counties of Ulster). Scottish birth certificates list date and place of parents' marriage and Scottish marriages list names of both sets of parents...
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Bonhill district shows 2 marriages for James Flynn- 1 in 1898 and other in 1901- still just speculation.
Wonder if that James Flynn born 1903 Bonhill was born 1 August 1903?
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larceny, by means of trick, of a pair of boots, James Flynn, Primrose Hill. Armagh, was, at the local sessions yesterday, sentenced to fourteen days’ imprisonment.
per Northern Whig, 22 August 1924
also Thomas Flynn, of Primrose Hill, Armagh, who pleaded guilty to a charge of having stolen a woman’s bicycle, was sent to Borstal for three years
per Belfast Newsletter. 13 Jan 1944
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thanks very much. I can access these newspapers at my local library so will get a copy.
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Derry Journal, 26 July 1937- ARMAGH ASYLUM PATIENT ESCAPES ... The patient was captured after an exciting chase by James Flynn, an unemployed mill worker, ...
Northern Whig, 4 July 1930- A youth named James Francis Flynn, of no fixed address, charged at Armagh Petty Sessions with stealing a watch and chain from John Hughes, of Roughan, pleaded guilty, and was sentenced to 6 months' imprisonment.
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mind if i ask how you are searching for these as i have looked at newspaper archives but never found that much
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Flynn as surname & Primrose or Armagh as keywords ;)
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which archive? I use british newspapers via the local library.
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Should work there ;)
Death certificate for Susan Flynn (I have a few credits at the moment)-
6 Jan.1936 Primrose Hill, Susan Flynn, female, widow, 59 years, widow of James Flynn baker, bronchitis 14[?] days, Mary Flynn present at death Gillis Row, registered 14 Jan.1936
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I think the name on the 1911 census was wrong so i am fairly certain it was susan flynn and not finn [she couldnt read and write] According to the census she was married for 10 years so a date of approx 1901 for the marriage and she had 3 children born only two alive by 1911 census. Just the mystery as to why the two children were born in scotland and then returned to armagh. She was born in Co leitrim.
I managed to find two children james and john flynn born in 1903 and 1906 in bonhill [near loch lomond] registration district [civil registration of birth] but no catholic records
Those were likely born to a James Flynn who married a Rose Ann Jackson at Bonhill in 1898, or Rosina Harkins in 1901.
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Many Thanks
The irish part works. Mary Flynn at Gillis row was my grandmother [nee Caldwell] so that all adds up
For the scottish bit it might be back to the drawing board. I was hoping james and john were sons of james and susan. I suppose something may have happened to first wife and he went back to ireland with children and remarried. Its never easy is it.
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Since you have an exact date for 1903 it might be worth spending a few credits on Scotland's People to see if the James born there in 1903 has similar date of birth.
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From the new Scottish thread-
There is a census for 1901 ...
Lodging House, 6 Baker Street, Hawick, Roxburghshire.
James Finn, 38, Baker (Journeyman)b Ireland
Susan Finn, 28, wife, formerly Waitress
James Finn, 18 mths, son, b Jennbartern, Dunshe ???