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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Denbighshire => Topic started by: wrjones on Sunday 26 March 17 18:16 BST (UK)

Title: Mary Ann Jones?
Post by: wrjones on Sunday 26 March 17 18:16 BST (UK)
Catherine Jones is given as born in Llangollen in c 1863 and living with Mother Mary Ann Jones and sister M? in Trever Ucha Denbighshire in the 1871 Census.The status of this Mary Ann is a little puzzling as she may be given as unmarried in the 1871 Census?However where Catherine is given as born in 1864 in the 1891 Census it appears she is given as a Widow?

In any event she is given as born in c 1835 in Llansantfraidd Merioneth in the 1871 Census.Returning to the 1891 Census I'm very much interested in the  Grandaughter of Mary Ann's given as Alice Jones Jones.She was in fact born as an Alice Rory Jones.I presume that Catherine is her Mother?

Regards
William Russell Jones.
Title: Re: Mary Ann Jones?
Post by: keyboard86 on Sunday 26 March 17 19:41 BST (UK)
Hi the Alice Rory Jones b 1884 I believe has been mistranscribed and should be this baptism, or then again, maybe the baptism has been mistranscribed:-

Alice ROSY Jones born 18th May 1884 baptism 18th April 1885 Llangollen Father Saphy? occ Cabinet Maker Mother Catherine address Mill Street ( The Street where in 1871/1881/1891 the Jones family were living)

The sister "M" is Minnie Morris Jones June qtr 1866 Corwen v11b page 454 No mothers maiden name shown.
Keyboard86

EDIT in 1881 census Mary Ann aged 50 is Single
Census Ref RG11/5540/83/12

Also note that Alice Rory Jones married a Samuel Jones 1907 Wrexham.
Title: Re: Mary Ann Jones?
Post by: wrjones on Sunday 26 March 17 23:45 BST (UK)
Thanks,yes Alice did marry Samuel in 1907.I met with a descendant of the couple earlier today.Now Samuel's father was a Henry Jones born in 1850.In the 1871 Census he shows with a brother George born in 1865.

Going back to my contact,she was rather mournful when I seen her earlier today,thinking she had no living relatives.However within an hour of our meeting after reviewing all the Census entries I was talking to the Great-Grandson of the George Jones.This George's son George Millward Jones born in 1905 was to go on to marry my relative.

Regards
William Russell Jones.
Title: Re: Mary Ann Jones?
Post by: keyboard86 on Tuesday 28 March 17 12:45 BST (UK)
Hi still puzzling who is this SAPHY occ Cabinet Maker shown as father of Alice Rory and why is Alice, Jones Jones on census?

What happened to and why middle name Morris for Minnie Morris Jones b 1866 Corwen?
Keyboard86
Title: Re: Mary Ann Jones?
Post by: wrjones on Tuesday 28 March 17 13:06 BST (UK)
Hi still puzzling who is this SAPHY occ Cabinet Maker shown as father of Alice Rory and why is Alice Jones Jones on census?

What happened to and why middle name Morris for Minnie Morris Jones b 1866 Corwen?
Keyboard86

I'd agree it is puzzling though these may only be shall we say nominal details!The name Rory is a bit puzzling too.

Regards
William Russell Jones.
Title: Re: Mary Ann Jones?
Post by: wrjones on Friday 31 March 17 08:27 BST (UK)
Thanks,yes Alice did marry Samuel in 1907.I met with a descendant of the couple earlier today.Now Samuel's father was a Henry Jones born in 1850.In the 1871 Census he shows with a brother George born in 1865.

Going back to my contact,she was rather mournful when I seen her earlier today,thinking she had no living relatives.However within an hour of our meeting after reviewing all the Census entries I was talking to the Great-Grandson of the George Jones.This George's son George Millward Jones born in 1905 was to go on to marry my relative.

Regards
William Russell Jones.

in that 1871 Census George is showing with a sister given as "Elmty" born in c 1869.This sister is only shown in the 1871 Census though clearly there is some doubt about her Christin name?One other loose end to tie up is that I can't find George in the 1881 Census?In the 1891 Census he has married a Phoebe(Davies).

Regards
William Russell Jones.
Title: Re: Mary Ann Jones?
Post by: keyboard86 on Friday 31 March 17 14:03 BST (UK)
Hi again, this is the only 1871 census I can locate with what could be George b c 1865 and sister Elm** b 1869, No Henry though?

Sarah Jones 46 Widow
Elias 20
Hannah 10
George 6
Elmy 2
All born Ruabon
Residing at Jolly Bank, Coed Christionydd?
Census ref RG10/5652/108/24

If not this one, can you supply details of the one you have?
Keyboard86
Title: Re: Mary Ann Jones?
Post by: wrjones on Friday 31 March 17 14:12 BST (UK)
Hi again, this is the only 1871 census I can locate with what could be George b c 1865 and sister Elm** b 1869, No Henry though?

Sarah Jones 46 Widow
Elias 20
Hannah 10
George 6
Elmy 2
All born Ruabon
Residing at Jolly Bank, Coed Christionydd?
Census ref RG10/5652/108/24

If not this one, can you supply details of the one you have?
Keyboard86

Yes thats the one thanks.

Regards
William Russell Jones.
Title: Re: Mary Ann Jones?
Post by: keyboard86 on Friday 31 March 17 14:26 BST (UK)
 ??? But Henry b c 1850 is shown as Elias?
Keyboard86
Title: Re: Mary Ann Jones?
Post by: wrjones on Friday 31 March 17 14:30 BST (UK)
??? But Henry b c 1850 is shown as Elias?
Keyboard86

The connection with Henry is that Sarah's daughter Louisa was to marry Henry.

Regards
William Russell Jones.
Title: Re: Mary Ann Jones?
Post by: keyboard86 on Friday 31 March 17 14:33 BST (UK)
Hi I am only going on your earlier post where you state Henry b c 1850 is with a brother George b c 1865 and shown together on the 1871?
Keyboard86
Title: Re: Mary Ann Jones?
Post by: wrjones on Friday 31 March 17 14:40 BST (UK)
Thanks,yes Alice did marry Samuel in 1907.I met with a descendant of the couple earlier today.Now Samuel's father was a Henry Jones born in 1850.In the 1871 Census he shows with a brother George born in 1865.

Going back to my contact,she was rather mournful when I seen her earlier today,thinking she had no living relatives.However within an hour of our meeting after reviewing all the Census entries I was talking to the Great-Grandson of the George Jones.This George's son George Millward Jones born in 1905 was to go on to marry my relative.

Regards
William Russell Jones.

Surprised i hadn't noticed this earlier but it is an error.Elias(1851) is a brother-in-law of course to Henry.

Regards
William Russell Jones.
Title: Re: Mary Ann Jones?
Post by: keyboard86 on Friday 31 March 17 14:51 BST (UK)
So George is a brother in law as well?
Keyboard86
Title: Re: Mary Ann Jones?
Post by: wrjones on Friday 31 March 17 14:53 BST (UK)
So George is a brother in law as well?
Keyboard86

Thats right,I wish I could find George too in 1881?

Regards
William Russell Jones.
Title: Re: Mary Ann Jones?
Post by: keyboard86 on Friday 31 March 17 14:58 BST (UK)
 :) OK so family in 1861 census :-

Sarah Jones 34 Widow
John 12
Elias 10
Louisa 14
Hannah 0
Residing at Well Street, Ruabon
Census ref RG09/4281/44/36
Keyboard86

PS so if Sarah was a Widow in 1861/71 who were parents of George & Elm***?
Title: Re: Mary Ann Jones?
Post by: wrjones on Friday 31 March 17 15:30 BST (UK)
:) OK so family in 1861 census :-

Sarah Jones 34 Widow
John 12
Elias 10
Louisa 14
Hannah 0
Residing at Well Street, Ruabon
Census ref RG09/4281/44/36
Keyboard86

PS so if Sarah was a Widow in 1861/71 who were parents of George & Elm***?

I'm almost certain that the sister born in c 1869 was in fact Elizabeth born in 1868.Sarah's maiden name was Richards.Ii've a hunch too that she was to go on to marry a Richard Ellis Jones at Wrexham St Giles in 1890.a George Jones was a witness.

Regards
William Russell Jones.
Title: Re: Mary Ann Jones?
Post by: despair on Friday 31 March 17 15:49 BST (UK)
There is a family at RG11/5514/97/24 in Cefn Bychan,Ruabon in 1881 that has a Henry Jones(1851) and George Jones(1865),brother in law.

Regards
Roger
Title: Re: Mary Ann Jones?
Post by: wrjones on Friday 31 March 17 16:03 BST (UK)
There is a family at RG11/5514/97/24 in Cefn Bychan,Ruabon in 1881 that has a Henry Jones(1851) and George Jones(1865),brother in law.

Regards
Roger

Thanks Roger.

Regards
William Russell Jones.
Title: Re: Mary Ann Jones?
Post by: keyboard86 on Friday 31 March 17 17:41 BST (UK)
Hi again, so the family in 1851 looks like this :-

Elias Jones 32 occ Collier
Sarah 25
Lewisa 4
John 2
Residing at Cefn Mawr. Ruabon
Census ref HO107/2503/170/36

Possible death for Elias September qtr 1852 Wrexham v11b page 203 aged 33

So same query, who were parents of Hannah 1861, George 1865 and Elm** 1869?
Keyboard86
Title: Re: Mary Ann Jones?
Post by: wrjones on Friday 31 March 17 18:00 BST (UK)
I've found no further info on Hannah.George married a Phoebe Davies in a Civil Marriage.It should be Elizabeth born in 1868 in Cefn Bychan.Now I'm almost certain she married a Richard Ellis Jones at Wrexham St Gilees in 1890.Her father is stated to be a Joseph Jones.Though I had heard whispers that she had children the second time with a Joseph Jones,I'm yet to find a marriage for them apart from an extreme outsider in the Holywell District in 1859,which is again given as a Civil Marriage on North Wales BMD.

Regards
William Russell Jones.
Title: Re: Mary Ann Jones?
Post by: wrjones on Friday 31 March 17 18:12 BST (UK)
I think its been mentioned as otherwise but I think its unclear as to whether Sarah is given as married or not in 1861?

Regards
William Russell Jones.
Title: Re: Mary Ann Jones?
Post by: keyboard86 on Friday 31 March 17 18:24 BST (UK)
I think its been mentioned as otherwise but I think its unclear as to whether Sarah is given as married or not in 1861?

Regards
William Russell Jones.

Hi again, looking at original to be honest suspect shown as still married?
Was Sarah aged 57 Widow occ Greengrocer or Huxter b Cefn Mawr in 1881?
Census ref RG11/5514/63/12
Keyboard86
Title: Re: Mary Ann Jones?
Post by: wrjones on Friday 31 March 17 18:26 BST (UK)
I think its been mentioned as otherwise but I think its unclear as to whether Sarah is given as married or not in 1861?

Regards
William Russell Jones.

Hi again, looking at original to be honest suspect shown as still married?
Was Sarah aged 57 Widow occ Greengrocer or Huxter b Cefn Mawr in 1881?
Census ref RG11/5514/63/12
Keyboard86

I'm referring to the 1861 entry.

Regards
William Russell Jones.
Title: Re: Mary Ann Jones?
Post by: keyboard86 on Friday 31 March 17 18:29 BST (UK)
 :) The original I looked at was the 1861 with eg Elias aged 10?
Keyboard86
Title: Re: Mary Ann Jones?
Post by: wrjones on Friday 31 March 17 18:33 BST (UK)
:) The original I looked at was the 1861 with eg Elias aged 10?
Keyboard86

That would be the entry.Don't really fancy the 1881 entry for Sarah with the location of the entry.If she was still alive I believe she'd still be in Cefn Bychan.

Regards
William Russell Jones