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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: Helen13 on Tuesday 28 March 17 04:52 BST (UK)
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Hi
I am trying to work out the family of Emma Lucy RICE and the family that she married into.
I know that Emma Lucy RICE is the daughter of William RICE and Mary Jane HORNER. She was born in 1878 and died in 1952 in London.
In 1916 I have found a marriage index for Emma Lucy RICE to James PORTWAY and Cornelius Van BURN/BUREN. So who did she marry? Are they the same person?
In 1952 Emma's name on the death index is Emma Lucy Van Buren PORTWAY.
So is there a name change concerning her husband ? ???
Please can I have help tracing this family. I do not know which name to research - James PORTWAY or Cornelius Van BUREN. :-\
I have no idea if they have any children.
Many thanks in advance
Helen
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I suspect it's a name change to James Portway
Can find two possible children with the surname Portway
James C Portway Mothers maiden name Rice Sept Qtr 1917 Hackney 1b 542
Philip E Portway Mothers maiden name Rice Jun Qtr 1922 Hackney 1b 718
Can't post details of 1939 Register but it would be worth looking at and does confirm the younger son is theirs. I think I would invest in Lucy's marriage cert to get her spouses detials in terms of age/father etc
Kay
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Here is a birth for you to check out.
James Cornelius Van Portway. Born 1886 Hackney London. Birth Quarter 1
Volume 1B ,page 567.
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Here is a birth for you to check out.
James Cornelius Van Portway. Born 1886 Hackney London. Birth Quarter 1
Volume 1B ,page 567.
Interesting - On the Electoral Register 1936 there is a James Cornelius Portway with Emma Lucy Portway living at 18 Chippendale Street, Hackney
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If it is the right person James Cornelius Van Portway b 1886 has a twin sister Alice Maud listed on the GRO Birth Index with the same ref number and mothers' maiden name Mears
Alice Maud married Thomas Sidney Bruce on 4 Dec 1910 at All Saints, Clapton Park -father listed as James Van Portway - a Dealer
In 1901 there is this family in Hackney ?? :-\
Jas Portway 48 Boarder - Insurance Agent -Islington
Jas Portway 15 Hackney
Alice Portway 15 Hackney
Eliza Portway 45 Bow
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Here is a possible child for this family.
James Cornelius Van B Portway born 1917 Hackney.
Marriage 1958 Hackney.
Spouse Renee Dick born 1918.
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Hi All
Thank you for the replies. I am very appreciative of all the information. I will now look for the death of James Cornelius Van PORTWAY.
Are James Cornelius Van B PORTWAY born 1917 in Hackney and James C PORTWAY born 1917 the same person but registered twice?
Many thanks
Helen
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Are James Cornelius Van B PORTWAY born 1917 in Hackney and James C PORTWAY born 1917 the same person but registered twice?
I think they are the same person but normamac posted details of a online family tree
There is a death of a James Cornelius Van B Portway Jun Qtr 1979 - Harlow - Birth listed as 18 Jul 1917
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Hi Kaye
Thank you for your reply.
I am not having any luck finding Emma's husbands death that fit under James PORTWAY after 1936.
You have kindly found the death of their son James.
Thanks Helen
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I haven't found a death for the elder James either sadly I can't see his possible family either pre 1901 or where the surname BUREN would fit in if it is the right family :-\
I still think you really need Emma Lucy's marriage cert to confirm the husbands details
Kay
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Hi Kay
Thank you for your time and help with looking at this family.
I will put the marriage certificate on my wish list because at present I can not afford to get it.
Emma Lucy RICE is part of the family that I am trying to follow from her grandfather William RICE (born 1814 Plymouth Devon) who is the brother of my 2nd great grandfather George RICE. (born 1822 Plymouth Devon).
Thanks Helen
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Hi Helen13
Emma Lucy Rice married James Cornelius van Buren Portway. Are you a relative? Are you interested in knowing more about forebears like I am?
Regards
Lynn10
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Hi Lynn
Thank you for your reply.
I am trying to sort out the family of Emma Lucy RICE and her husband plus Emma's siblings.
I am related to Emma Lucy RICE and I am interested at finding out more about her family and her children with her husband James Cornelius van Buren PORTWAY.
So can we compare notes or look at researching this family together?
Regards Helen
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Can't post 1911, however they are still in Hackney.
It led me to this
John Portway married Elizabeth Mears 1874 in West Ham, he died 1880 age 34 registration Shoreditch.
1881, 79 Morning Lane, St John Hackney
Elizabeth Portway widow age 24 born Stepney boot machinist
George age 3 born Shoreditch
Elizabeth 2 born Shoreditch
William 1 month born Hackney
Using new GRO index all the above children have mothers maiden name of Mears, George reg. Shoreditch 1877, Elizabeth reg. Shoreditch 1879, William re. Hackney 1881. Plus a John reg. Hackney 1876.
Followed by James C Van Portway with sister Alice Maud 1886 at Hackney.
Hint son William age 30 is with them in 1911. and James senior being a fish dealer.
corrected from son George to William age 30
Still need to find them 1891
So is James Portway a brother of John Portway and they could not legally marry.
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Elizabeth Portway was buried Chingford Mount Cemetery 23 August 1911 age 56.
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Son John Portway born 1876 son of John and Elizabeth.
1881 census he is with George Burford and his wife Clara nee Mears (married 1880)
address 35 Blackston? Road Hackney, John Portway nephew age 5.
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This family may be worth a look as the origin of John & possibly James van Buren/Portway.
1851 census: HO107/1537/527/25
17 Wilks Place, Shoreditch
Frederick Buren Head Mar 37 Silver polisher
Sarah do Wife 35
Frederick do Son 11
Elizabeth do Daur 10
Mary A do Daur 7
John H do Son 5
Letitia do Daur 2
Elizabeth ?? Visitor U 43 Independent
All born Shoreditch.
Actually forget that - looking at the birth registrations I think their surname was actually BUNN
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Another possible lead - this Portway family uses the given name "Vann" on a couple of the sons' baptisms.
1891 census, Highbury Hill, Islington
Samuel W Portway Head M Solicitor's managing clerk London Kingsland
Mary E Wife 30 Sunderland
Eugene W W V do Son 11 Dalston (baptised Eugene William Woodhead Vann Portway)
Elizabeth H T do Daur 10 Islington (baptised Elizabeth Harriet Thornton Portway)
Arthur C R do Son 8 Highbury (Arthur Christopher Rolls Portway)
Samuel A F V do Son 6 Highbury (baptised Samuel Albert Frank Vann Portway)
Clement C F do Son 5 Highbury (Clement Charles Fawkes Portway)
Esmond S do Son 2 Highbury (Esmond Shackleton Portway)
Looking back, the Vann in this family seems to come from Samuel's mother's maiden name - he was a son of Samuel George Portway and Mary Ann Vann, married at St Paul's Canonbury on 5 August 1855.
Possibly another red herring?
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I think this is the family in 1891: RG12/200/13/19.
85 Mandeville St, Hackney
James GRANBY Head Mar 38 Fish porter London Islington
Elizabeth do Wife 36 Bromley by Bow
Elizabeth PORTWAY Stepdaur 12 Hackney (some transcriptions say PORTNOY)
George do Stepson 13 Errand boy Hackney
John do Stepson 15 Fish dealer Hackney
William do Stepson 10 Hackney
Alice V do Stepdaur 5 Hackney
James V do Stepson 5 Hackney
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Baptisms (C of E, Hackney) for some of the early Portway children:
2 Aug 1883
Elizabeth Portway, born 2 Mar 1879
William Henry Portway, born 12 Mar 1881
Parents: John (a sawyer) and Elizabeth, of 94 Chalgrove Rd.
Also on the same date: Alice Mears, born 25 July 1875, dau of Napoleon and Elizabeth, 94 Chalgrove Rd.
16 Aug 1883
George Portway, born 7 May 1877. Parents John (a sawyer) and Elizabeth, of 94 Chalgrove Rd.
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I think this is the family in 1891: RG12/200/13/19.
85 Mandeville St, Hackney
James GRANBY Head Mar 38 Fish porter London Islington
Elizabeth do Wife 36 Bromley by Bow
Elizabeth PORTWAY Stepdaur 12 Hackney (some transcriptions say PORTNOY)
George do Stepson 13 Errand boy Hackney
John do Stepson 15 Fish dealer Hackney
William do Stepson 10 Hackney
Alice V do Stepdaur 5 Hackney
James V do Stepson 5 Hackney
In light of this I am wondering whether Elizabeth's twins Alice and James were the result of a brief relationship (perhaps with a Mr van Buren??) after the death of her husband John Portway in 1880 and before she got together with James Granby (later aka Portway). Alternatively James may have been their natural father despite their being described as his stepchildren in the 1891 census.
James Granby appears on electoral registers at 85 Mandeville St, Hackney, 1890-1895. He is a bit mysterious other than that. Perhaps he was a man of many aliases.
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Looking at the possible paternity of Elizabeth's twins, I note that there was a Van Buren family in Hackney at the relevant time headed in 1871 by George van Buren (45 b Cheltenham) and his wife Sarah nee Parkes. (RG10/324/61/44).
One of their sons was Cornelius Martinus van Bu(u)ren born 28 Sep 1854 in Islington. He married Fanny Sleep in Plymouth in 1876, and by 1881 they were at 9 Poole Rd, Hackney. Cornelius is recorded in 1881 as a fish buyer.
He then disappears. Did he father Elizabeth Portway's twins and then die or do a runner - or is he the same person we later see with Elizabeth as James Granby and James Portway?
Cornelius's wife Fanny remarried ("widow") in Cardiff 26 Dec 1892, to Robert Mills.
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Hi All
Thank you for the further replies. I will have to look at all the information and continue to sort out this family.
Helen :)
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Hello Helen
Emma and JC were my grandparents, but both died before I was born.
Are you a connection of F Rice who was in Manley, NSW in the late 1940s when he was writing very friendly letters to my parents. The letters mentioned "Mum". Would this have been Emma?
Bye for now
Lynn
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Hi Lynn
Thank you for your last reply. It is possible that we are cousins through Emma Lucy RICE.
I would like to compare my notes with information that you may know. When you send one more message to this forum, it then allows us to use the personal message system so we can also send messages privately off this site.
I have I think Emma's birth date and death year and I have two birth years for JC.
I think that Emma had three sons. F RICE is query her eldest. I do not have much information on him. He is with his mother in 1911 and 1939 if I have the correct F RICE. I have not been able to trace him, so I was interested that he was to be in Australia.
Some members of my RICE family go to Australia prior to 1914 and do not have any children. They would have been 2nd cousins to Emma RICE.
Do you have any information on Emma's Family? Her parents and her brothers and sisters? I am still looking for her younger brother William G RICE born 1881.
Also I would like your thoughts on JC's family.
Look forward to discussing this family some more.
Bye for now
Helen
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Hi Helen
If we may be cousins, which of Emma's children was your Mother or Father?
F Rice was Fred or Frederick, I am not sure how old he was. I only really know about Emma and JC's two sons. JC junior (Jack) born 1917 and my Dad, Philip Edward born 1922.
I think Jack might have gone to Aus, but not sure and think he might have died in England. My parents intended to go to Aus to join him, but didn't.
I'm a newbie to family tracing and the only thing I managed to find which might have been JC senior's death was one at sea in 1923.
Look forward to hearing from you
Lynn