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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: brendariani on Saturday 01 April 17 13:04 BST (UK)
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Hi I am trying to find information on my Grandmother's family. My grandmother Mary Leonard was born 29 March 1903 approx in Killeshandra, Co Cavan. Her Mother was Ellen Collins born around 1881 in Co Monaghan whose Mother was Margaret Delaney born approx 1847 in Co Cork. My grandmother Mary Leonard's father was Thomas Leonard (I think) who disappeared at his wife's (Ellen) funeral and was never seen or heard from again. I don't have any birth or marriage records. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks in advance. Brenda
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Other thread....
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=757873.msg6081175#msg6081175
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Apologises, I hadn't realised I enquired on this site previously. I have still not found a birth record for my Grandmother or marriage for Ellen Collins. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks brenda
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Hi,
I found these, see below.
I did see one birth for Margaret the next sibling but it had Gilmore as the Mothers maiden name BUT, it was the same address and Thomas and Ellen the parents.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1905/01793/1703592.pdf
(My relative was so excited at the birth of his twins, when asked Mothers maiden name he put his Mothers maiden name. I sat and wondered and then I searched by that name and got it)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1907/01707/1676574.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1909/01611/1646256.pdf
1911 census
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cavan/Arvagh/Longford_Street/319377/
It took a while to find the info.
Notice that one of the records is registered in Carrick-on-Shannon (County Leitrim)
Maggsie
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That is great news, thanks so much. So Thomas Leonard's Mother's maiden name was Gilmore? Can you tell me anything about him and his parents?Still no birth record for my Grandmother Mary who was 8 years old in the 1911 census?
Much appreciated.
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No I am not saying it was Gilmore, it's just that Gilmore was put as the maiden name but the names of the parents were the same as Thomas and Ellen and same address, it may be a mistake.
Are the birth dates and Name the correct ones?
Please check.......
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie
I am not in Ancestry now, but that would be the place to search, it gives matched info to help with searching.
Maggsie
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Hi,
I found these, see below.
I did see one birth for Margaret the next sibling but it had Gilmore as the Mothers maiden name BUT, it was the same address and Thomas and Ellen the parents.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1905/01793/1703592.pdf
There is a baptism in Killeshandra on Jan 02 1905 of a Maggie Leonard
Parents Thomas LEONARD and Ellen COLLINS
address Arva, Co. Cavan
Sponsors Michael HANNON and Ann WALSHE
which ties with the birth Maggsie found
I would say that the name GILMORE was written completely in error for whatever reason
The Head of the family on the 1911 census was a Thomas LEONARD as shown on the cover form LINK (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001693102/)
confirming births found
This could possibly be the birth of
Mary COLLINS Nov 14 1891 LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1891/02367/1883771.pdf)
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Many thanks. On Mary Collins birth record is her father listed as Thomas Collins? Can you tell me her Mother's maiden name please. I can't make it out. Thank you.
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Not sure which thread to post on here. The information might already be posted.
1901 shows a Thomas Leonard who is a Dealer, born Monaghan and lodging in Armagh.
You might want to make a note.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Armagh/Tandragee_Urban/Market_Street/1021351/
Heywood
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Here is a 1911 Thomas who is a Pedlar. He says he has 4 children.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Fermanagh/Enniskillen_North/Queen_s_Street/516494/
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Seems possible as he did have 4 children in 1911 with Ellen Leonard. Although he is the head of the household in 1911 in Longford street. Is it possible he could have lived between the two. I think he was a bit older than Ellen. Apparently my Grandmother told my Mum he used to go away for weekends. Then he disappeared at Ellens funeral. My Grandmother never saw him again.
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Although he is named as head in 1911 on the cover of the form, he is not included in the household. I suppose as a Pedlar he would travel about. I do think him a likely candidate especially with him filling in the children details.
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Does it tell his age?
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1901 and 1911 are consistent for the Thomas Leonard who is lodging - 30yrs and 40 yrs -so born about 1871 - just click on the links I posted.
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Seems possible as he did have 4 children in 1911 with Ellen Leonard. Although he is the head of the household in 1911 in Longford street. Is it possible he could have lived between the two. I think he was a bit older than Ellen. Apparently my Grandmother told my Mum he used to go away for weekends. Then he disappeared at Ellens funeral. My Grandmother never saw him again.
On the 1929 death record in Monaghan of the Ellen LEONARD she is described as married
This would imply her husband was known to be alive at that time
If Thomas LEONARD was from the border region and died in the North of Ireland after 1929 his death record would be with GRONI Click here for LINK (https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/introduction-groni-and-its-records)
There is also a Prison record for Thomas LEONARD
Oct 13 1923 in Mountjoy Dublin
Age 52; Height 5' 11"; Hair Bro/Grey; Eyes Grey; Complexion Fresh
Born Strabane; Address Arva, Co. Cavan; Next of Kin Ellen LEONARD, wife; Occupation Pedlar
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That's great! Is there anyway I can view this record? Is it possible to get these records also? Many thanks
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Prison re ords?
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That's great, myluck! :)
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That's great! Is there anyway I can view this record? Is it possible to get these records also? Many thanks
The record I found was on Findmypast.ie (paid site)
The original page of the register is scanned and visible online
There were several records for the name Thomas LEONARD
There is an 1868 birth on April 25 1868 in Strabane LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1868/03441/2263585.pdf) based on the names of their children I would have preferred to see different parent's names but the father's occupation is Dealer which could tie with Pedlar
If the census records located are Thomas, he was not consistent with his place of birth
Thomas COLLINS and Margaret "not known" were the names on the birth record of Mary COLLINS and tie in with two of the children's names
Remembering they had at least one child who died (from the 1911 census) I would keep Patrick and Mary in mind for the parents of Thomas
Now for some added information
Ellen COLLINS m James GILMORE in Beragh, Co. Tyrone on Oct 15 1898 LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1898/10435/5799612.pdf)
Her father was Thomas from Arvagh; his Thomas from Enniskillen according to another site
This is probably where the name GILMORE came from on Margaret's birth record
Birth of Annie GILMORE Jan 27 1900 LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1900/02007/1771264.pdf)
Father serving in South Africa; Private 1st Batt Royal Irish Fusiliers
Annie died on March 21 1902 in Killeshandra LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1902/05702/4607815.pdf)
The informant was her mother Ellen GILMOR which implies she had not remarried at this time
so I think that this is Ellen on the 1901 census - LINK (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Cavan/Killeshandra/Yewer_Lane/1064298/)
Possible spouse
There is an army record for a James GILMORE of the Royal Irish Inniskillens
Father shown as Thomas; no wife or children listed; regiment# 2791
He died at Netley (Southampton) 31.01.00
Unfortunately I still cannot see a marriage for Ellen to Thomas LEONARD
when they should have logically married between March 1902 (death of Annie) and March 1903 (birth of Mary)
nor a birth record for Mary LEONARD 29.03.1903
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That's interesting. My Mum mentioned a family member said there was a James which we thought was Leonard. and thought he was my Grandmothers father and the rest of the siblings were Thomas Leonards. My Mum thought they were brothers and James died and Ellen married his brother Thomas. When I asked my Mum about it a few weeks ago, she said she didn't think it was true. Maybe their was some confusion surrounding what actually happened. Would there be a marriage for Thomas and Ellen years later? Would my Grandmother be under the name Gilmore if her Mother Ellen hadn't remarried Thomas by the time of her birth? We didn't know anything about young Annie. Thanks so much I am shocked completely and very interested😀
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Also my Mum mentioned she didn't know whether her Mum's true birthday was March or May. I don't know if this helps. Many thanks
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I have had a look for births and marriages using GILMORE with no luck so far
As Margaret was baptised in Killeshandra and the family seem to have been consistently in this area around that period I would contact the church and ask do they have a baptism for Mary. Then you would have a starting point with a fairly accurate date of birth (sometimes children were registered with different dates for different reasons)
I don't see anything to indicate that James GILMORE and Thomas LEONARD were related
There are some births later than 1911 to Thomas LEONARD and Ellen COLLINS
on www.irishgenealogy.ie are Joseph May 05 1911 & Ellen Oct 02 1913
There is an online family tree that state there was also Peter 1917; John 1920; Bridget 1922
In 1911 Ellen stated that she had had one child that died and this was probably Annie as I cannot see a LEONARD birth/death match.
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Thank you! No they were not brothers. I don't think the family really knew much about the first marriage. They are Ellen and Thomas's children after 1911. They had a son who died also, I think his name was Joe, (Joseph) then they had another and named him Joe also. Can you tell me how I can find the family tree please? I really appreciate your help.
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Thank you! No they were not brothers. I don't think the family really knew much about the first marriage. They are Ellen and Thomas's children after 1911. They had a son who died also, I think his name was Joe, (Joseph) then they had another and named him Joe also. Can you tell me how I can find the family tree please? I really appreciate your help.
The tree I saw is on ancestry but has a few anomolies - I would recheck any information that you find there ;)
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Hi I wondered if you coukd find a birth record for Bridget Theresa Leinard born 1922 to Ellen please?
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Hi I wondered if you coukd find a birth record for Bridget Theresa Leinard born 1922 to Ellen please?
See
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/civil-records/help/what-civil-records-are-on-line
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In Hallmark's link you will see that the free site does not show births after 1916 (i.e. less than 100 years old)
On a paid site I had a search but it only gives the civil reference that would allow you order the certificate LINK (https://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Apply-for-Certificates.aspx)
There is only one birth in Cavan of a Bridget LEONARD in 1922.
The Reference is Cavan District, Quarter 2, Volume 3, Page 57
The mother's maiden name is not shown on these records and without seeing the record you cannot be sure that it is the correct person
There are many LEONARD births in Cavan between 1915 and 1925
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Hi Brenda,
My wife is the granddaughter of the Bridget Theresa Leonard that you are searching for a birth record for! We are so excited to have found your posts this evening as we too have had many questions about her Leonard family. Sadly, Bridget died young, at the age of 28, after travelling to Canada as a war bride, accompanied by her two young daughters. We would be excited to share any and all info that we have with you and look forward to learning more about your Grandmother Mary's story!
I am just crossing my fingers that you see this soon as the anticipation of your response is great!
Douglas and Lisa Cochrane
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Hi Dougal and Lisa
I cannot believe I got a response, I am so excited. My Mum was talking about Bridget just a few weeks ago and was telling me her husband told my Grandmther she was heartbroken as she missed my Grandmother so much. My Grandmother was heartbroken when she died.
I have just gotten up for work, so I will contact you when I get home.. My Mum will be so excited.
I f you could send me your email address privately that would be great.
Look forward to speaking with you both soon.
Brenda
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Good morning Brenda
Good to hear from you - very excited. Our e-mail address is (*). We are looking forward to hearing from you.
Sincerely,
Douglas and Lisa Cochrane
(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy, to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
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Hi Douglas and Lisa. Thank you for your email address.
I will message you after work. I rang my Mum on my break and she is so delighted from you. 😀
Speak later.
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Hi, I ondered if anyone can help. I am looking for information on my great uncle John Leonard who was born in 1920 to parents Thomas Leonard and Ellen Collins
In Killeshandra, Arva Co Cavan.
Many thanks
Brenda
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Hi M. Not sure if I sent you a pm properly. Thank you for information. I look very much like if you would contact the tree owner. Would it be possible to find a birth record for John?
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There is a death record for a John Leonard, Arva, Co. Cavan 15th December 1942 aged 43
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1942/04674/4245204.pdf
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That's great! Is there anyway I can view this record? Is it possible to get these records also? Many thanks
He was imprisoned for 'demanding money by threats' :-X