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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Mayo => Topic started by: Bob Queensland on Wednesday 05 April 17 04:42 BST (UK)

Title: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Wednesday 05 April 17 04:42 BST (UK)
 :) I am a Robert Bingham, son of Robert Roland, my Grandfather Robert John came to Australia in 1911and was a son of Arthur Shaen Bingham of Doolough Lodge whose father was William Bingham Esq of Bay View near Binghamstown.
I have found court proceedings including William's father Major Denis and him defending libel charges from Rev Lyons in Dublin in 1830's however I still can not find William's birth information ie DOB, place of birth and Mother etc.
I have found that Major Denis was officially only to have daughters however he worked closely with William for many years until his own death in 1842.
Any directions to William's details would be appreciated
Bob
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Regorian on Wednesday 05 April 17 08:35 BST (UK)
Might be worth looking at these:-

http://www.thepeerage.com/p22444.htm.

http://landedestates.nuigalway.ie/LandedEstates/jsp/estate-show.jsp?id=279.

Bingham is the family name of the Lord Lucan family who had estates in Ireland and once on the Thames in SW london.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Wednesday 05 April 17 09:59 BST (UK)
Thanks for the suggestions and references
I have already pursued them but still have no firm information on Arthur's father William Bingham of Bay View House Binghamstown.
I believe he was an illegitimate son of Major Denis Bingham of Bingham Castle Binghamstown.
Still searching for Date and Place of birth, Date of Death and location of grave if anyone can assist
Regards
Bob
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Sinann on Wednesday 05 April 17 11:11 BST (UK)
I can see Denis Bingham marriage to Elizabeth Nash 1846
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01jve/
And the birth of daughter Viola 1865 (you have to wonder if that date is correct)
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F5Z6-LNL
And daughter Adelaide 1847
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01jvf/

So when do you think William was born?
Was he older or younger than the girls.

That's not the correct Denis is it, just noticed you said he died 1842.

Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Sinann on Wednesday 05 April 17 11:37 BST (UK)
Than you give the wives names and dates, there are just so many Bingham's using the same names.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 05 April 17 11:39 BST (UK)
The Mayo Binghams by Theresa Bingham-Daly

ISBN:    1858214378
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 05 April 17 11:40 BST (UK)
Memoirs of the Binghams,  edited by C. R. B. Barrett.

Published / Created:    London, Spottiswoode, 1915
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 05 April 17 11:42 BST (UK)
Peers and plebs :two families in a changing world /

Main Creator:    Bingham, Madeleine, Baroness Clanmorris.

ISBN:    0049200445
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 05 April 17 11:53 BST (UK)
 Location:                        Binghamstown, Belmullet, Kilmore, Mayo
Click for Google map:      54.209745 N, -10.035894 W
Number of headstones:    16 legible headstones
Date range:                    1866 to 1975 (observed)
Recorded:                       all legible headstones photographed June 2013


Binghamstown Cemetery Headstones
This old protestant cemetery is located at the north end of Binghamstown on the Belmullet peninsula, about 150 yards west of the main R313 road.  It is surrounded by a high stone wall which is crumbling in places.

The cemetery was very overgrown with brambles and nettles.  Some of the headstones bear the surname Bingham, from which the town derives its name

BINGHAM, Benjamin Henry George 1879, 
BINGHAM, Bentinck Agliomby 1917, 
BINGHAM, Geraldine Eileen 2000, 
BINGHAM, Henry 1894, 
BINGHAM, Henry Shaen 1975, 
BINGHAM, Margaret Theresa 1875, 
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Wednesday 05 April 17 12:29 BST (UK)
Hello helpers
Major Denis Bingham died in 1842.. I do not know when he was born or his wife .... one of his daughters (no real sons).. I assume eldest, Anne married her cousin Robert Augustus Bingham in 1817 ... and had several offspring ... Denis built his castle and the village of Binghamstown in 1795 ... I believe William, Denis's illegitimate son, was born about 1765 .... who had my g grandfather Arthur Shaen Bingham (1830 - 1915) who lived at Doolough Lodge with his family including my grandfather Robert John Bingham (born 1871).
Most of the gravestones in Belmullet cemetery I believe to be children of Gerald and Augusta Cecilia Bingham (married 1877)
The Denis Bingham married to Elizabeth Nash in 1846 was one of Major Denis Bingham's grandsons.
Both published books Mayo Bingham's and Memoirs of the Binghams do not memtion the William line except to say William was Denis's son but not by law, also shows his involvement in landlord business alongside Maj Denis Bingham.
Thank you guys so far ... still seeking
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Wednesday 05 April 17 12:41 BST (UK)
Oops ... although I had read William to be born to Maj Denis about 1765 ... I believe his birth would have to be around 1788 - 1800 for him to father my g grandfather Arthur (born 1830)
Just a thought ...
Further info ... Arthur's wife was Maria Hanson Savage (daughter of Robert Savage) married 1854 in Belmullet.
Thanks
 :)
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Wednesday 05 April 17 12:46 BST (UK)
Another thought ... Since Maj Denis father Henry was married to Letitia Daly in Oct 1761 ... the date about 1765 may have been referring to Maj Denis's birth date and not William's...
My apologies ... Regards
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 05 April 17 12:57 BST (UK)
Yes it is getting rather confusing!!
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 05 April 17 13:04 BST (UK)
Sir Richard left no male issue, and the representation of the family devolved on the eldest son of his brother George.

    HENRY BINGHAM, Esq. of Castlebar, the son of George Bingham, Esq. Governor of Sligo, who was killed in 1595, as already noticed. This Henry was created a baronet of Nova Scotia in 1632. He married a daughter of Mr. Daniel Byrne of Cavanteely, a clothier or Merchant tailor in Dublin, and the sister of Sir Gregory Byrne the ancestor of the baron de Tabley. John Bingham, Esq. of Foxford, in the County of Mayo, the brother of this Henry, is the ancestor of Lord Clanmorris, and of the late Major Bingham of Bingham Castle. Sir Henry Bingham was succeeded by his eldest son
    SIR GEORGE BINGHAM, who was succeeded by his eldest son
    SIR HENRY, who died without issue, and was succeeded by his half-brother
    SIR GEORGE BINGHAM, who was succeeded by his eldest son
    SIR JOHN BINGHAM. He was Governor and representative in parliament of the County of Mayo.  He married Anne, daughter of Agmondesham Vesey, Esq. grand-niece of the celebrated Patrick Sarsfield, Earl of Lucan. He was an officer of rank on the side of King James in the battle of Aughrim, and contributed to the success of William, by deserting his colors in the brunt of the battle. He died in 1749, and was succeeded by his eldest son
    SIR JOHN BINGHAM, who represented the County of Mayo in Parliament, but dying without issue in 1752, the title devolved upon his brother
    SIR CHARLES BINGHAM, M.P. for the County of Mayo, who was raised to the Peerage on the 24th of July, 1776, in the dignity of Baron Lucan of Castlebar, and advanced to the Earldom of Lucan 6th October, 1795. He married, in 1760, Margaret, daughter and sole heir of John Smith, Esq. of Cannon's Leigh, County of Devon, and Andrees, County of Somerset. He died on the 29th of March, 1799, and was succeeded by his eldest son
    RICHARD BINGHAM, Earl and Baron of Lucan. He was born 6th December, 1764, and married on the 26th of May, 1794, Lady Elizabeth Belasyse, third daughter and co-heir of Henry, last Earl of Fauconberg, by whom he had issue
    GEORGE CHARLES BINGHAM, the present Earl of Lucan, who, following the example of his ancestors, has removed all the Burkes and O'Malleys off his lands, and commenced a system of agriculture, by which (though he may perish in the attempt, being overwhelmed by the rates necessary to support his hostages detained in the poor law prisons of Westport and Castlebar,) he will do more to reduce the Queen's subjects in Mayo, in the reign of Victoria, than his ancestor Sir George, or the Governor Sir Richard, had done in the reign of Elizabeth.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Wednesday 05 April 17 14:14 BST (UK)
 :)Thank you for your last details
I'll have to sit down and digest the information
I had been looking to Henry who married Arthur Shaen's daughter Francis Elizabeth in 1738. Their son Henry passed the County Mayo estates to his sons Henry and my Maj Denis ... I had thought the Sir George to Sir John line would eventually move along to Lady Lavinia Bingham who married George Spencer 1781 then on through the Spencer Line etc.
Soory mate ... i'll go away and chart your information alongside mine
Thanking you 8)
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 05 April 17 14:38 BST (UK)
Denis only had 2 daughters.... could William be father of Robert Augustus, his son in law??
.
Forgot Source to previous post..  http://www.ucc.ie/celt/published/E610005-001/
.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 05 April 17 14:46 BST (UK)
Scrap that...he was Henry's son
.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Thursday 06 April 17 08:42 BST (UK)
Thanks anyway mate ... Shame it shows no wife for Maj Denis either.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Thursday 06 April 17 08:53 BST (UK)
Hi helpers .. seems that my stumbling block is Maj Denis wife? around 1790 ish and Williams birth record maybe at Ballina or Belmullet
PS Can't find many Bingham graves of the time .. were they exhumed and reburned elsewhere away from Belmullet pennisula??
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Thursday 06 April 17 08:54 BST (UK)
oops ... reburied elsewhere
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hanes teulu on Thursday 06 April 17 09:34 BST (UK)
Newspapers online  http://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/search/advanced

Search under "denis bingham" in "The phrase"

Check the snippets for the Mayo Constitution, 16 March 1847 or The Dublin Evening Mail 19 March 1847. The articles mention children born 1842 and 1845.

This is a subscription site and the same range of newspapers is available via Find My Past
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Thursday 06 April 17 10:45 BST (UK)
I will explore your suggestions ... have found William in court case with Denis in 1833 ... still reading ...
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Thursday 06 April 17 12:44 BST (UK)
Sorry guys ... still can't find Maj Denis Bingham wife and William's birth ... thanks and still looking
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: myluck! on Thursday 06 April 17 12:52 BST (UK)
:) I am a Robert Bingham, son of Robert Roland, my Grandfather Robert John came to Australia in 1911and was a son of Arthur Shaen Bingham of Doolough Lodge whose father was William Bingham Esq of Bay View near Binghamstown.

Have you found that Arthur Shaen Bingham had two sons named Robert John?
As at least one named Robert John  died aged 2 months in 1869 and is buried with his mother in Belmullet

Inscription detail
In/ loving memory/ of/ Maria Hanson/ the beloved wife of Arthur Shaen Bingham/ who died on the 5th of March 1899/ aged 64 years/ (7 lines prayer)/ also her son/ Robert John/ who died on the12th Sept 1869/ aged 2 months
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Thursday 06 April 17 13:24 BST (UK)
Yes thanks .. the other Robert John died in first few months ... interesting that Arthur does not appear to be buried with her and Robert ... My Robert John went to Dublin to Brown Thomas as a Draper apprentice/assistant in 1901 census ... my area of very poor info is William and Denis ... Arthur and my grandfathers siblings and their lives I have found through the help you guys have given
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Thursday 06 April 17 16:45 BST (UK)
Do you know if Shaen is on your line??
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Thursday 06 April 17 17:09 BST (UK)
Denis Bingham was born in 1818.2 He was the son of Robert Augustus Bingham and Anne Bingham.1,2 He married Elizabeth Elinor Nash, daughter of Arthur Nash, in 1846.2 He died in 1902.2
     He lived at Bingham Castle, Belmullet, County Mayo, Ireland.3 He held the office of Justice of the Peace (J.P.)3
Children of Denis Bingham and Elizabeth Elinor Nash

    Viola Alexandra Bingham+4
    Adelaide Elizabeth Bingham3 d. 1882
    Constance Letitia Anne Bingham2 d. c 1884
    Denis George Charles Arthur Bingham+2 b. 1849, d. 1876
    Gerald Henry Bingham2 b. 1855
    Richard Lionel Nash Bingham2 b. 1856, d. bt 1899 - 1901

Citations

    [S37] BP2003 volume 1, page 794. See link for full details for this source. Hereinafter cited as. [S37]
    [S339] Descendants of William the Conqueror, online http://www.william1.co.uk/. Hereinafter cited as Descendants of William the Conqueror.
    [S47] BIFR1976 page 216. See link for full details for this source. Hereinafter cited as. [S47]
    [S47] BIFR1976. [S47]

http://www.thepeerage.com/p22444.htm
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Thursday 06 April 17 17:23 BST (UK)
Latitia Daly, Md. 1760, Henry Bingham, of Newbrook, Co. Mayo, + 1790.
A1. John Bingham, 1st Baron Clanmorris of Newbrook (1800), M.P., * 1762, + 1821, Md. 1791, Hon. Anne Maria Yelverton, * 1775, + 1865, d. of Barry Yelverton, 1st Viscount Avenmore.

    B1. Charles Barry Bingham, 2nd Baron Clanmorris of Newbrook, * 1796, + 1829, Md. 1816, Sarah Lambert, d. of Walter Lambert, of Castle Lambert, Co. Galway.
    B2. Denis Arthur Bingham, 3rd Baron Clanmorris of Newbrook, * 1808, + 1847, Md. 1825, Maria Helena Persse, + 1899 (aged 96), d. of Robert Persse, of Roxborough, Co. Galway.
        C1. John Charles Robert Bingham, 4th Baron Clanmorris of Newbrook, * 1826, + 1876, Md. 1849, Sarah Selina Persse, + 1907, d. of Burton Persse, of Moyode Castle, Co. Galway.
            D1. John George Barry Bingham, 5th Baron Clanmorris of Newbrook, * 1852, + 1916, Md. 1878, Matilda Catherine Maude Ward, + 1941, d. of Robert Edward Ward, of Bangor Castle, Co. Down.
                E1. Arthur Maurice R
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Thursday 06 April 17 17:50 BST (UK)
Denis Arthur Bingham, Hon., * 1829, + 1897, Md. 1864, Eugenie Colette Gabriele de Lacretelle, of Burgundy, France, + 1893.

    D1. Jeanne Aimée Bingham, of Paris, France.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Thursday 06 April 17 18:09 BST (UK)
Absentee
.
.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hanes teulu on Thursday 06 April 17 18:29 BST (UK)
Scotland's People

Denis Arthur Bingham married Maria Helena Persse on 1 May 1825 in the Parish of Portpatrick
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Saturday 08 April 17 02:49 BST (UK)
Thank you for your help ... unfortunately the Major Denis I'm after was the father of the Anne who married the Robert Augustus 's (his brother Henry's son) ... the families did live at Bingham Castle. I believe Major Denis birth has to be around 1760 ish ... Shaen family was two generations prior to Major Denis (his grandfather John (about 1738 married Francis Elizabeth Shaen - heiress to Shaen Estates)
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Saturday 08 April 17 02:59 BST (UK)
Hi Hallmark
Your thread on Denis Arthur married to Maria Persse is correct however I believe he is son to John (married to Yelverton). John (1762 - 1821) was a brother to Major Denis as was Henry (1743? - 1789)
Thanking you
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Saturday 08 April 17 09:00 BST (UK)
:) I am a Robert Bingham, son of Robert Roland, my Grandfather Robert John came to Australia in 1911and was a son of Arthur Shaen Bingham of Doolough Lodge whose father was William Bingham Esq of Bay View near Binghamstown.
I have found court proceedings including William's father Major Denis and him defending libel charges from Rev Lyons in Dublin in 1830's however I still can not find William's birth information ie DOB, place of birth and Mother etc.
I have found that Major Denis was officially only to have daughters however he worked closely with William for many years until his own death in 1842.
Any directions to William's details would be appreciated
Bob
If you look at the lines you will see they were MP's etc and some of them married in England.

There is "William of Philadelphia" who was US Congressman etc, and died in Somerset, can he be the William you're looking for?
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: aghadowey on Saturday 08 April 17 09:07 BST (UK)
If you look at the lines you will see they were MP's etc and some of them married in England.
There is "William of Philadelphia" who was US Congressman etc, and died in Somerset, can he be the William you're looking for?

William's father was William Bingham, a saddler and merchant in Philadelphia-
http://www.archives.upenn.edu/people/1700s/bingham_wm.html
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Saturday 08 April 17 09:33 BST (UK)
Thanks but sadly no ... my William Bingham Esq spent his life in and around the Belmullet Peninsula assisting the management of Major Denis Bingham's estates from about 1790s through to 1860s, I believe his son was my g grandfather Arthur Shaen Bingham of Doolough Lodge (Arthur "gentleman" "landowner"confirmed on 1901 and 1911 census search and on all his children's birth entries in Belmullet)
William appears alongside Maj Denis in a famous libel Dublin court proceeding in 1833 as reported in Dublin newspapers. He is listed as "son but not in law" I assume an "illegitimate son"
I will chase the USA link in case ... again any assistance welcomed
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Saturday 08 April 17 12:06 BST (UK)
Thank you for your help ... unfortunately the Major Denis I'm after was the father of the Anne who married the Robert Augustus 's (his brother Henry's son) ... the families did live at Bingham Castle. I believe Major Denis birth has to be around 1760 ish ... Shaen family was two generations prior to Major Denis (his grandfather John (about 1738 married Francis Elizabeth Shaen - heiress to Shaen Estates)

Strange that Denis' Wife gets no mention on Pedigree!! You say he had 2 daughters but Pedigree shows Ann and "Other Daughters" implying more.

His father married Letitia Daly Dec 1761, 1st son John b. 1762, and Denis was 3rd son so b.1765ish

Grandfather John   married Francis Elizabeth Shaen 1 June 1738
.
.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Saturday 08 April 17 14:24 BST (UK)
.....and a contradiction that he only had 1 child here!!
.
.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hanes teulu on Saturday 08 April 17 16:08 BST (UK)
Plenty of reports about the 1833 court case most of which mention "... William Bingham, the son of Major Bingham, who can never be his heir-at-law... ".
An exception is The Roscommon Journal & Western Imperial Reporter which mentions "... Major Bingham and his natural son Wm ...". It also mentions "... Major Bingham is a Protestant, William Bingham is a Protestant ...".

Out of interest is this the Major Bingham that fought a duel with a Mr O'Donel in 1801? 
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Sunday 09 April 17 23:48 BST (UK)
Thanking you all so far ... Major Denis was prominent to having duelled with many ... I believe the "Major" was a stretching of the truth in army service. Its amazing that there are holes in the documents on Denis's wife, birth details on William details on Bingham Castle (I am also still trying to find photographs of it)
I have sent a letter to the present owner of Doolough Lodge to secure more information on life and times of Arthur and grandfather Robert John... again thanks from OZ
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Sinann on Monday 10 April 17 00:21 BST (UK)
Only grass covered foundations remain, but is this a drawing of it? Binghamstown Castle.
https://seeingthewoods.org/2014/07/07/the-long-history-of-going-wild-in-erris-ireland/
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 10 April 17 00:57 BST (UK)
Well he got house in Tuam, didn't go to Erris until he was 30 and probably either married or had children "somewhere". She ,ay have been a commoner and not worthy of a mention.

He was in Military.... but where??
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 10 April 17 01:12 BST (UK)
Thanking you all so far ... Major Denis was prominent to having duelled with many ... I believe the "Major" was a stretching of the truth in army service. Its amazing that there are holes in the documents on Denis's wife, birth details on William details on Bingham Castle (I am also still trying to find photographs of it)
I have sent a letter to the present owner of Doolough Lodge to secure more information on life and times of Arthur and grandfather Robert John... again thanks from OZ

Picture.
.
.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Monday 10 April 17 06:59 BST (UK)
Thanks for the picture Hallmark ... had only the sketch Sinann displayed. The picture looks about 1920 by the model of car and a bit boarded up ... are there any others .. interior or furnishing etc ... probably a bit much to ask ... was this picture one of a series or part of an article?
Thanking you Hallmark and Sinann... another piece for the jigsaw
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hanes teulu on Monday 10 April 17 08:40 BST (UK)
A list of the officers of the army and marines; with an index; A succession of colonels; andd a list of the officers of the army and marines on half pay
Author - Great Britain, Army
Date Published - 1789

Rank - Lieutenant
Name - Denis Bingham
Date entered rank in Regiment - 30 May 1788

Wiki mentions the regiment being transferred to the Irish establishment 1746 (known then as the Duke of Shrewsbury's Regiment of Horse) and transferred to the British establishment 1788 as the 5th regiment of Dragoon Guards.

There's reference here
http://www.ebooksread.com/authors-eng/rose-elizabeth-mccalmont/memoirs-of-the-binghams-acc/page-11-memoirs-of-the-binghams-acc.shtml

(Posed question about the duel having seen several newspaper references and then finding a description by the O'Donel side)   
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Monday 10 April 17 08:47 BST (UK)
Hi guys ... well done Hanes Teulu I had been lead to believe that "Major" Bingham made the rank of only a Lt in 5th Dragoon Guards....thanks .. also William Esq of Bay View is mentioned as one of the three seats on the peninsula, the others Major Denis of Bingham Castle and that of Rev Lyons of Binghamstown House (a rented property) in 1820 ... a thought ... was there a will from Major Denis to William Esq that found it's way to Arthur Shaen Bingham holding a large acreage portion of the Shaen estate in the Landedestates listings... 
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: dathai on Monday 10 April 17 09:11 BST (UK)
Some Will's and Probate also off line at the moment
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01jwa/
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 10 April 17 10:25 BST (UK)
So where were the 5th regiment of Dragoon Guards before he went to Erris 1796 aged about 30?

What records did the keep??
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Monday 10 April 17 10:51 BST (UK)
Denis ... his father Henry's 3rd son seemed a favoured one over Henry ... maybe because of him being in the 5th Dragoon Guards through 1788 -90ish ... they were moved to Ireland in 1766 from England I believe.
I haven't found records of his movements ... only that he built Binghamstown and Castle in 1796 ... maybe just after he arrived in Mayo ..... Henry the father passed away about 1790 and Denis would have received his inheritance directly afterwards..... Denis died from shooting accident in 1842 and I am currently searching for the wording of a will to William or his son Arthur..... contagious stuff this is
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Tuesday 11 April 17 00:21 BST (UK)
Hi helpers ... just a thought ...Major Denis  daughter Anne was married to Robert Augustus Bingham in 1817 ... would Denis wife name be on marriage docs ..... or Anne's birth docs .... I know a long shot
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hanes teulu on Tuesday 11 April 17 07:55 BST (UK)
London Gazette

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/12633/page/157  (see col 1)
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/12996/page/270  (see col 2)
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Sinann on Tuesday 11 April 17 08:19 BST (UK)
Hi helpers ... just a thought ...Major Denis  daughter Anne was married to Robert Augustus Bingham in 1817 ... would Denis wife name be on marriage docs ..... or Anne's birth docs .... I know a long shot
Not even father's names on the marriage
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01jwf/
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Tuesday 11 April 17 08:41 BST (UK)
Thanks ... I assume Cornet is similar to a Second Lt .... and a Lt in 1788 in Ireland... Thought ..event occurred about two months after the First Fleet of convicts set up the first British settlement in Sydney Australia.
Interesting that no parent details on Anne and Robert's marriage ...... Did William's marriage turn up? ...Again thanks guys
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 11 April 17 16:59 BST (UK)

Interesting that no parent details on Anne and Robert's marriage ....
.
Image just so others don't have to go through the rigmarole of that stupid Captcha thingy....

What is showing there doesn't mean the full details aren't on the actual Cert....



Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 11 April 17 17:42 BST (UK)
NASH family on the Mullet. English/Protestant "colonists" who rented land from Sir Arthur Shaen in the Barony of Erris. First located in Bangor, Erris, later moved to a home near LEAM(e) Lough on the Mullet. One branch married into the Bingham family -- Elizabeth.

 read "Within the Mullet" by Rita Nolan? A member of the Nash family sued Denis Bingham in 1811. The judgement in the case was published in the Freeman's Journal.


https://www.ancestry.ie/boards/thread.aspx?m=7862&p=localities.britisles.ireland.may.general&dc=50

_________________

They certainly kept Marriage details secret.... 
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Wednesday 12 April 17 00:52 BST (UK)
I think this is the marriage of John Bingham (son of Rt Hon Henry and Anne Vesey) and Frances Elizabeth Shaen in 1737, they being the parents of Henry who married Letitia Daly in 1761,the parents of my Major Denis, his brothers Henry and John. You are right parent details are a little scarce, may have to order the complete details from one of the ancestry sites to find wife of Denis and/or mothers details for birth of William, however still can't find his marriage location or date (had thought William's wife was Maria Houston but I have found no documents to prove the information) This is a very difficult part of my ancestry to find.... however thanking you guys for your contributions
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 12 April 17 01:10 BST (UK)
What makes you think William's wife was Maria Houston??

You're probably aware your Denis' father was buried in the adjoining chapel, is that still there?? are others there??
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 12 April 17 01:59 BST (UK)
Denis had land in other Counties..... Marriage Settlement for daughter
.
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Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Wednesday 12 April 17 05:30 BST (UK)
Not Denis's daughter .... This is very difficult to read and appears to be made out as a marriage inheritance for Harriet Bingham (Major Denis's brother Henry's youngest daughter to the husband Ben Jennings) son of Geo Jennings in 1818. The Lands listed are from many counties and maybe parts of the original Shaen Estates passed down to Henry from from his father etc etc. I don't understand why Denis was making the contract , Henry the father may have passed away by that time. Interesting that Denis's daughter Anne married Henry's son Robert Augustus the year before. The name Maria Houston was written on a tree started my another relative but I have not been able to find proof for it. There are confirmed graves at Binghamstown for Henry and others of his family but no Denis, William of my g grandfather Arthur. Was there another marriage settlement made out by Denis for his daughter Anne or William at your source... kind regards
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Wednesday 12 April 17 05:38 BST (UK)
I did read about an inscription for his father's gravestone at Bingham Castle taht had a Daly reference scratched out ..... however I believe the site of the castle is but a foundation covered in grass .... trying to make letter contact with residents of Doolough Lodge and Binghamstown to ascertain whether the gravestone still exists or re interned elsewhere ... hard to get straight responses..
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Wednesday 12 April 17 05:42 BST (UK)
Yes .. Robert Augustus and Anne's son Denis married Elizabeth Nash in 1846 and lived at Bingham Castle
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 12 April 17 08:38 BST (UK)
A member of the Nash family sued Denis Bingham in 1811
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 12 April 17 08:39 BST (UK)
Denis was Harriet's Legal Guardian!
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 12 April 17 08:40 BST (UK)
I did read about an inscription for his father's gravestone at Bingham Castle taht had a Daly reference scratched out ..... however I believe the site of the castle is but a foundation covered in grass .... trying to make letter contact with residents of Doolough Lodge and Binghamstown to ascertain whether the gravestone still exists or re interned elsewhere ... hard to get straight responses..


Epitaph
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Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 12 April 17 09:34 BST (UK)
Harriett is described as daughter of Henry, late of Dublin!! So what property did he have in Dublin??
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Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Wednesday 12 April 17 13:33 BST (UK)
Thanks Hallmark ... late evening over here ... I'll study your last and figure out Henry's property in Dublin ... I believe he may have been mainly an absentee landlord ... however most of his descendants on Denis's Anne side tended to live at Bingham Castle ...... also my grandfather Robert John moved to Dublin prior 1901 to become a draper and his brother Arthur William (married to Margaret Bury in 1896) moved to live in Dublin also his sister Jane ended up married to John Claxton in 1889 with children at Dysart House near Dublin ... I'll check ... I am still seeking William birth and mother??... Denis seemed to have kept heaps to himself back then ..Again thanks
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Wednesday 12 April 17 13:41 BST (UK)
Just a quicky.. Henry's sisters appear in Landedestates living near Dublin at 3 Marcello Towers at Dalkey (apparently originally defensive towers sold off relatively cheaply mid 1800's and refurbished as residences) ... anyway off now
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Wednesday 12 April 17 13:48 BST (UK)
Oops .. not Henry's sisters ... Anne and Robert Augustus's daughters Anne and Letitia (at Dalkey) in 1876 .. sorry
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 12 April 17 14:07 BST (UK)
Yes I know you are seeking William birth and mother.. but like I said he was 30 when he went to Erris and quite possibly married elsewhere!!
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hanes teulu on Wednesday 12 April 17 17:54 BST (UK)
Dublin Courier, 8 July 1761
The undermentioned gentlemen, who were not in the last PARLIAMENT, are returned to represent the following places in the new PARLIAMENT

Amongst those listed -
Borough of Tuam, Henry Bingham of Castleburke

Wd. this be Denis' father?
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 12 April 17 19:30 BST (UK)
Just a quicky.. Henry's sisters appear in Landedestates living near Dublin at 3 Marcello Towers at Dalkey (apparently originally defensive towers sold off relatively cheaply mid 1800's and refurbished as residences) ... anyway off now
and a property in Donnybrook
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Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 12 April 17 19:58 BST (UK)
..and Drumcondra
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Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 12 April 17 20:14 BST (UK)
Kilmore mentioned on same item
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Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Thursday 13 April 17 11:34 BST (UK)
Henry could quite possibly be Denis's father Henry... Henry married about same time 29 Oct 1761 to Letitia Daly ... therefore could have had the three sons John, Henry and Denis over the following five yearsish .. oops there were also about six daughters.... so a Dublin based family .... one of the daughters Anne married Chrisopher St George in 1778 ....... could William have been born to Denis in Dublin prior to 1790s arrival in Belmullet Peninsula and the building of Bingham Castle and Binghamstown.... Kilmore seems to have some relevance?? Also Denis's brother Henry was the first Lord Clanmorris ... where would that be ... Tuam??... I couldn't find the birth of William in Dublin records of 1780s ... I'll try again for Baptisms ... St Peters or St Marys... records seem hard to find... your last JPG does it continue on to Denis
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Thursday 13 April 17 11:36 BST (UK)
Sorry ... Hallmark ...thank you again heaps
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Thursday 13 April 17 11:42 BST (UK)
One more ... Newbrook comes up over and over again .. Henry's father Henry and his father John married to Frances Shaen in 1738 and his father Henry .. I'll continue Google Mapping
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Thursday 13 April 17 12:03 BST (UK)
Hi guys ...I have just ordered "Mayo Binghams" by Teresa Bingham-Daly as I can not find a copy in our library system over here in Qld ... hope it may shine a little light on what I am seeking re William and Arthur Shaen Binghams and help our search .. thanks again
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Thursday 13 April 17 16:26 BST (UK)
How well do you speak Gaelic?

http://www.duchas.ie/en/cbes/4428006/4367460
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hanes teulu on Thursday 13 April 17 19:49 BST (UK)
Queensland,
You've mentioned the 1833 case. William also featured prominently in an 1843 court case re. alleged forging of a will. Reported widely in the Irish press eg.

The Dublin Evening Mail, 25 July 1843, -
"...The late Major Bingham left four or five children ... The magistrates said ....they would issue a warrant for the apprehension of William Bingham as soon as information were lodged against him ".



 

 
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hanes teulu on Thursday 13 April 17 20:02 BST (UK)
Marriage of one of " ... the four or five children"

Lately at Bingham Castle, in the County of Mayo, V B Fowler, Esq, of Mecklenburg Street, Dublin, to Louisa, third daughter of Major Bingham, of Bingham Castle and niece to Lord Clanmorris".
(Bells' Weekly Messenger, 27 Sep 1818)
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Thursday 13 April 17 22:48 BST (UK)
A member of the Nash family sued Denis Bingham in 1811.... WHY??
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Thursday 13 April 17 23:01 BST (UK)
Denis, an Englishman......
https://archive.org/stream/sketchesinerris00otwagoog
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Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Thursday 13 April 17 23:34 BST (UK)
Thanks Hanes and Hallmark ....another of Maj Denis daughters accounted for ....I had read about the false Maj Denis will (a Captain Bingham initiated it but was supposedly authorised by William)..... I'm trying to translate the Gailic text ..all dutch to me ....I dont know of 1818 with Nash family other than family allowed to live rent free near Castle and one of daughters to marry young Denis in 1846.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Friday 14 April 17 01:03 BST (UK)
Sketches in Erris seems a good read .. was it set about 1830s ... Gives a good description of Maj Denis ... his military stance and landlord stature at least until the town of Belmullet took away any wealth left at Binghamstown.... no love lost between Catholic Priest Lyons and him at the time .....still looking at Dublin for Williams birth ?? .. Thanks
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Friday 14 April 17 03:31 BST (UK)
Hi Hallmark... are you thinking Denis to be born in England not Ireland ??
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hanes teulu on Friday 14 April 17 09:35 BST (UK)
A member of the Nash family sued Denis Bingham in 1811.... WHY??

Saunder's Newsletter, 5 Dec 1811

"... On 2nd October 1809, Mr Nash. likewise of Mayo and, it would appear, likewise a magistrate, was taken into custody on information sworn before Mr Bingham by Atkinson, a revenue officer .... No ____  ? of indictment could be founded upon the informations, and he was, of course, discharged ...".

" ...Mr Nash then made application to the Crown of King's Bench for a conditional order for a criminal offence against Mr Bingham for malicious arrest and imprisonment ..."

"The sentence of the Court, ..... , was that Mr Bingham should pay to the King a fine of 300l, be imprisoned three calendar months and give security to be of the peace, himself in 100l and two sureties of 500l ..."
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Friday 14 April 17 10:08 BST (UK)
Hi Hallmark... are you thinking Denis to be born in England not Ireland ??

Yes.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Friday 14 April 17 10:13 BST (UK)
Ok .. I'll try the Dorset Binghams around Melcombe for a little while ... hanes .. did Denis serve time??
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Friday 14 April 17 10:56 BST (UK)
He was a Major, so where did he train??
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Friday 14 April 17 11:22 BST (UK)
Hayes found the information below
Rank - Lieutenant
Name - Denis Bingham
Date entered rank in Regiment - 30 May 1788

Wiki mentions the regiment being transferred to the Irish establishment 1746 (known then as the Duke of Shrewsbury's Regiment of Horse) and transferred to the British establishment 1788 as the 5th regiment of Dragoon Guards.

Seems to be a British unit operating in Ireland .... read a piece in your attachment "Sketches in Erris" that the author was relating a story of Denis in uniform on a grey charger in 1799... author stated a Brigade Major of Yoemanry who came from Sligo ..... we have found a commission of Lt only so far.... the story describes an incident four years after establishing Binghamstown as a landlord... a bit confusing
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hanes teulu on Friday 14 April 17 11:29 BST (UK)
Cannot confirm his serving time. However, immediately following the judgement
 
Belfast Commercial Journal, 18 Dec 1811
"With respect to the Magisterial Delinquent Denis Bingham, Esq, the Chancellor did not think it necessary to observe the same ceremony.** Immediately after the judgement of the Court of King's Bench had been passed, sentencing Mr Bingham to pay a fine of £300, and to be imprisoned for three calendar months, the Chancellor issued a supersedeat, withdrawing the Commission of the Peace from him (Mr Bingham) and ordered it to be served forthwith by the proper officer"

** - (the Magisterial Delinquent Lord Louth was allowed to resign rather than have his Commission withdrawn)

Re. his military status, recently read something about a "troop of horse cavalry" (get the feeling he might have been part of some local militia). For example, in 1796 Captain John Bingham set up a force called "The Carra Corps of light Infantry" 
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hanes teulu on Friday 14 April 17 11:45 BST (UK)
He was sentenced to serve his time in the " ... gaol of Kilmainham ...".

The reference I found to "cavalry corps" was part of the 1811 trial -

"Mr Henry Nash, who was then a very young lad, entered into the cavalry corps of Mr Bingham". This could be the 14th or 5th regt of dragoons identified earlier. The trial also introduced an Ensign Everard of the Mayo Militia - doesn't identify Denis as part of that force but possibly by implication?.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Friday 14 April 17 11:58 BST (UK)
Hi Hanes ... hard to identify some of the facts ... His brother was John and could have been in Corp together , In the piece in "Sketches in Erris" the author mentions his was a corp of Yowmans (malitia I assume)and that he was a brigade Major ... I also note that Denis's grandson Denis (born 1818) was also made a JP in Mayo.
Hallmark is seeking a record of service to trace back to Denis birthplace and DOB .. I have been lead to believe to be about 1765 and maybe in England or Dublin ... can't get a definite direction yet ... thanks guys
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Friday 14 April 17 12:04 BST (UK)
Also John went on to become MP for Tuam and 1st Baron of Clanmorris ... politics must be a bit of a game  with the Bingham ancestors  ...
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Friday 14 April 17 12:50 BST (UK)
They have certainly been around a long time!!

Date of earlier deed   17 Mar 1639
Date of current deed   3 Jul 1710 


£5502:10s to BINGHAM Henry of   Foxford, Co Mayo for half the manor of Castlehassett, Bys Lurg & Coolkernan, Co Fermanagh, granted by ROYAL_FAMILY   Charles (I)   of    King of England by Letters Patent dated 7 Mar 14 to BINGHAM    Henry   of   Foxford, Co Mayo holds the property with HAMILTON   Deborah   of   Crevenish, Co Fermanagh   widow Subject to Quit Rent & half £250 pa payable to for her life. BINGHAM   Henry   of   Foxford, Co Mayo has lawful title & power

http://irishdeedsindex.net/mem.php?memorial=1358
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Friday 14 April 17 12:53 BST (UK)
Wexford Lands

Comment for person [1]    BINGHAM   Charles   :transfer of certain lands in Co Wexford

http://irishdeedsindex.net/mem.php?memorial=166290
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Friday 14 April 17 13:00 BST (UK)
BINGHAM   Henry   Esq   Cloghran House, Dublin  http://irishdeedsindex.net/mem.php?memorial=324765

8 Aug 1796  BAIRD   John   Rector of Cloghran, Dublin leased to BINGHAM   Henry of   Cloghran House, Dublin the tythes on 64.5 acres of Shieldsville & Newman's holdings [now Dublin Airport] for the remainder 
BAIRD   John   Rector of Cloghran, Dublin incumbency
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Friday 14 April 17 13:17 BST (UK)
http://irishdeedsindex.net/mem.php?memorial=14885

Marriage between BINGHAM   John   of Castlebar, Co Mayo & VESEY Anne, eldest daughter of  VESEY   Agmondisham   of   Lucan, Co Dublin.

Her portion £5000 in lieu of her moiety of premises belonging to her in reversion,
947a at Lucan,
301a, By Newcastle, Co Dublin,
258a By Clare, Co Kildare,
98a By Salt, said Co,
also £26:0s:3 3/4d pa rent charges & her share of impropriate tythes, King's Co.

BINGHAM   John putting up property in Co Mayo, part of the estates left him by his uncle, clear yearly value £250, for use of said Anne during her lifetime, & also granting Vesey £250 pa from specified properties, in trust for VESEY   Anne for her lifetime for jointure & dower, providing her with a clear annual income of £500.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hanes teulu on Friday 14 April 17 19:29 BST (UK)
The Irish Court Registry for the Year of Our Lord 1794
I - ...
II - ...
III - The Ecclesiastical, Civil and Military Departments of the State, and the Lists thereof (Including the Militia)

The Militia is the Constitutional Force of the Kingdom; it amounts to 16000 men when full raised according to the Proportion of Population of each County, and is divided into thirty eight regiments, one for each of the thirty Counties, two for the County of Cork, two for the County of Mayo and one for each of the Cities of Dublin, Cork and Limerick, and the Town and County of Drogheda. In consequence of a late Act of Parliament they are almost all embodied, and their priority of rank was settled by Balot (sic) in the Treasury Chambers of the Castle the 8th of last August, and are as follows

List of the Militia of Ireland
N.B - where the names of the Officers are not inserted it is because either they have not beeen announced in the Gazette, or the Regiment not embodied -

1. Monaghan, 240 men
2. Tyrone, 560 men
........ &c
30. South Mayo, 350 men
Captains - Thomas B Lindsey, Denis Bingham, Edmund Kirwan, John Edward Browne
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Friday 14 April 17 20:53 BST (UK)
14th dragoons to 5th

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/12996/page/270
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Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Saturday 15 April 17 00:06 BST (UK)
Hanes ... at least now we have Denis as a Captain in 1794 .. maybe he did make Major before 1818.
Are we looking for Denis in Dublin now?
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Saturday 15 April 17 00:08 BST (UK)
Anne Vesey would be Maj Denis's great grandmother I think
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Saturday 15 April 17 07:34 BST (UK)
Hi guys .... A bit of research today ....keep coming back to Ireland and Mayo area ..... Denis's father and mother living at Newbrook House in the townland of Bellanaloob and parish of Robeen ... commonly known as town of Robeen in county Mayo .... family had been there since 1726 .... direct brothers and sisters born around 1760's, father Henry married Letitia Daly there in 28 Oct 1761 ..... all inherited Bingham half of Shaen estates .... still can not find graves or birth records ... were they destroyed as part of Irish independence??? ... very few Bingham graves can I find ?
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Saturday 15 April 17 09:40 BST (UK)
BIRTHS, DEATHS AND MARRIAGES FROM ASSORTED NEWSPAPERS.

19TH OCTOBER 1832.

BIRTHS.


On Friday, in Mallow, the lady of H. BINGHAM, esq., of a daughter.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Saturday 15 April 17 09:44 BST (UK)
COURT OF CHANCERY--LATE ELOPEMENT--On the motion of Mr. WHITE, his Lordship was pleased to confirm the Master's Report on the Marriage in Scotland, between the Hon. Denis Arthur BINGHAM, a minor, and Miss Maria PERSSE, of Roxborough, in the County of Galway; and his Lordship was also pleased to order that the parties should again go through the ceremony, which accordingly took place on Saturday last, the 23d inst., in St. Anne's Church. The minor has been allowed an annuity of £2,000 per annum until his minority shall have ceased, and thus the proceedings of Dowager Lady Clanmorris, have proved completely abortive.

Cavan Herald
Published in Cavan, county Cavan

August 2, 1825
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Saturday 15 April 17 09:46 BST (UK)
The Times
London, Middlesex, England
Aug 4, 1826

IRISH ASSIZES
GALWAY, JULY 29
CROWN COURT.

     Thos. Dillon Lambert, and John Wm. Browne, Esqrs., the Hon. Denis Arthur Bingham, Patrick O'Connor, Roderick O'Connor, David Wilson and John Blake, Esqrs. were put to the bar, charged with the wilful murder of Jeremiah Sullivan.
     The indictment, upon which a true bill had been found on the preceding day, charged that Thomas Dillon Lambert did, on the 28th day of June, in the 7th year of his present Majesty's reign, wilfully and maliciously discharge a pistol loaded with a leaden ball at the person of Jeremiah Sullivan, thereby inflicting upon him a mortal wound, of which he languished and died; and that the said Denis Arthur Bingham, and the several other prisoners arraigned, were then and there aiding and assisting the said Thomas Dillon Lambert. The prisoners pleaded "not guilty."
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Saturday 15 April 17 09:51 BST (UK)
https://archive.org/details/journalsiegepar00binggoog
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Saturday 15 April 17 09:53 BST (UK)
Full name Denis Arthur Bingham

Born November 6, 1829, Newbrook, Co Mayo, Ireland

Died July 8, 1897, Cheltenham, Gloucestershire (aged 67 years 244 days)

Major teams Gentlemen of England  http://www.espncricinfo.com/southafrica/content/player/10444.html
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Saturday 15 April 17 10:14 BST (UK)
Hi and thanks for the info Hallmark... however the Hon Denis is the younger son of Maj Denis's brother John. Hon Denis did marry Maria Persse in 1825 when he was about 17 years old ...they had heaps of children
The murder trial would have been him also at 18 ... it may have been a duel with so many witnesses and/or accomplices ... I think ... Maj Denis was also listed as having been central to many duels .. The Maj he died from a shooting in 1842 .. I wonder?
The H Bingham having a daughter ... I can not fit the date into any persons on my tree so far .. seems pretty hard to get back to the preceding generation... Birth and marriage Maj Denis and maybe Williams birth ... still looking at Newbrook
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: dathai on Saturday 15 April 17 10:26 BST (UK)
Came across this in Limerick paper dont know the title or date as its in pdf cant give a link i'm hopeless on computer but
Maria youngest daughter of the late Major Bingham of Bingham Castle,Co Mayo,her address was given as Wolverton House,Dalkey
so found a death in Rathdown 1871 age 66
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01jx3/
also on the death notices was a Abraham Evans age 22 died in Limerick also 1871
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01jx4/

there is also this will for that address
http://census.nationalarchives.ie/search/wr/details.jsp?id=IRE/ORIG/WILL/REG/28469
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Saturday 15 April 17 10:45 BST (UK)
Hi Hallmark ... interesting reading on Siege of Paris ... Denis (born 1829) is grandson to Maj Denis's brother John and Hon Denis is John's son .....complicated hey
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Saturday 15 April 17 11:08 BST (UK)
Hi Hallmark ... I've entered Maria (1805 - 1871) as one of Maj Denis daughters on my draft tree .. interesting that his daughter Anne had a Maria who married a George D'Arcy in about the same era .. also Anne had two daughters Anne (4768 acres) and Letitia (12525 acres) both living in Dalkey Dublin in 1876.... seem to be getting closer to the Maj
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Saturday 15 April 17 11:32 BST (UK)
The will of Henry that passed away at Walverton House Dalkey... his wife was Louisa and son was Arthur and he was a Major General in his majesty Army, I would think his line would have broken away at Henry Bingham marrying Anne Vesey or from Major Charles Bingham marrying Marie Blennerhassett both at mid 1600's and in Ireland near Dublin.... I don't think anyone in my Maj Denis line reached those dizzy military heights... I'll still pencil in Maria ... you said she was daughter to Maj Denis ... thanks another piece in the puzzle
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: dathai on Saturday 15 April 17 12:12 BST (UK)
Sorry i did not say Maria was daughter to Major Denis i said daughter of Major Bingham
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Saturday 15 April 17 12:49 BST (UK)
No worries Dathai .. there was only one Major Bingham at Bingham Castle ..... the Major Denis Bingham we are searching for ... thanks mate
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Saturday 15 April 17 14:09 BST (UK)
Not your line but not many buried in Ireland...

http://moorecs.com/MOORE/HTMLFiles/HTMLFiles_09/P3847.html#Source1576542257
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Saturday 15 April 17 15:00 BST (UK)
True Hallmark ... do you think my line could also be buried away from Ireland ... do you have access to a similar listing for my line ....still seems hard to get info on my line .... Maj Denis seems very secretive compared to his brother John
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: dathai on Saturday 15 April 17 15:08 BST (UK)
ever hear of a Robert
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FG6M-62P

daughter Harriett born 1865 Annagh House
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1865/03559/2310408.pdf

http://landedestates.nuigalway.ie/LandedEstates/jsp/estate-show.jsp?id=339
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Saturday 15 April 17 19:20 BST (UK)
Ancestry.co.uk is free for UK/Ireland until Monday..

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01jxb/
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: dathai on Saturday 15 April 17 21:22 BST (UK)
Two Henry Bingham's in the lineage St George of Tyrone,Galway.One was Louisa wife of Henry Bingham.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01jxc/

http://www.abandonedireland.com/ty.html

http://www.irelandoldnews.com/obits/obidxb.htm
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Saturday 15 April 17 22:15 BST (UK)
Stuff like this on Ancestry
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Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Sunday 16 April 17 06:03 BST (UK)
Hi Dathai
Thanks for Robert ... Maj Denis Binghams son in law .... Henry was his and Anne's son and Margaret McGrale was his first wife ... Harriet one of 7 daughters... family buried in Binghamstown Cemetery
My line goes the another way from Major Denis Bingham to his illegitimate son William @ Bay View House Binghamstown and Arthur Shaen Bingham at Doolough Lodge in Gweesala to us eventually in Australia.
The other ..... St George and Tyrone line is from Maj Denis's brothers side, married into Yelvertons ... daughters married St George and Tyrone lines .... sorry but I do love the picture of Tyrone House in ruin, what a terrible waste conflict causes
Hallmark ... have tried free ancestry a couple of times but it somehow knows I'm not in Ireland or UK .....but thanks for the info ... still up against a brick wall with Denis to William ... keep smiling

Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Sunday 16 April 17 09:02 BST (UK)
Just a little info if it helps ... William Bingham Esq son of Major Denis Bingham was a master mason of lodge 1264..."master of erris"
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hanes teulu on Sunday 16 April 17 09:19 BST (UK)
Arthur Shean Bingham's 1854 marriage notice in the paper has him as the " ... son of the late William Bingham"

Dublin Evening Mail, 9 Feb 1848
DEATHS - January 29th, at Bayview, of malignant fever, William Bingham, Esq, a magistrate of the County of Mayo

No age given in the notice
 
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Sunday 16 April 17 12:02 BST (UK)
Arthur Shean Bingham's 1854 marriage notice in the paper has him as the " ... son of the late William Bingham"

Dublin Evening Mail, 9 Feb 1848
DEATHS - January 29th, at Bayview, of malignant fever, William Bingham, Esq, a magistrate of the County of Mayo

No age given in the notice
 

Not on Civil Registers.
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Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Sunday 16 April 17 12:38 BST (UK)
Thanks Guys ... now have a date of Death on William that I didnt have before ... any leads on place of burial to chase birth date on gravestone inscription etc ..interesting that the death is not in civil records .... had two locations for Bay View either near Binghamstown or Ballina ... any ideas ... I still find this branch's dates and bodies hard to locate ... would William's birth date give us Major Denis and/or William's mother or have too many Irish records of the time been destroyed?
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Sunday 16 April 17 12:41 BST (UK)
Oops William's Lodge 1264 was in Ballina
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Sunday 16 April 17 13:57 BST (UK)
Hi Dathai
Thanks for Robert ... Maj 
Hallmark ... have tried free ancestry a couple of times but it somehow knows I'm not in Ireland or UK .....but thanks for the info ... still up against a brick wall with Denis to William ... keep smiling



You don't need to take out a Sub, just be registered and have username on the co.uk one.

Know plenty of people in Oz that use the free days.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hanes teulu on Sunday 16 April 17 14:25 BST (UK)
Looking at old Irish maps I see that Bingham Castle included a Chapel of Ease (yet to date these maps). Perhaps that was Williams's resting place? Married there perhaps? Wonder what happened to any records - would they be with the parent chapel?

Had been searching for Bayview in that area (not yet found). In an 1843 court case involving William he mentions the Belmullet Post master not forwarding a certain item. He also mentioned living in Castlebar 1834/1835.

P.S - re. Denis' elevation to Major, I'm beginning to think he got there in less time than it's going to take me/us to work out how he did it!!   
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hanes teulu on Sunday 16 April 17 14:32 BST (UK)
Thanks Guys ... now have a date of Death on William that I didnt have before ... any leads on place of burial to chase birth date on gravestone inscription etc ..interesting that the death is not in civil records .... had two locations for Bay View either near Binghamstown or Ballina ... any ideas ... I still find this branch's dates and bodies hard to locate ... would William's birth date give us Major Denis and/or William's mother or have too many Irish records of the time been destroyed?



Re. Civil records, death index begins 1864
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Sunday 16 April 17 15:32 BST (UK)
A large high tomb over a vault ':-

Sacred to the memory of The Right Honorable JOHN
CHARLES SMITH DE BURGH BINGHAM | Lord Baron Clan-
morris of Newbrook in the County of Mayo | A Noble-
man distinguished for the possession of those many
eminent virtues which adorn life | whether we consider
him in the Character of | a husband, father, Landlord
or friend. | The language of panegyric is too often
unworthily displayed in the unornamental inscription |
But the sincere and universal regret which still accom-
panies the recollection | of this estimable nobleman |
sufficiently testifies how fully he discharged his duties
both to God and man. His Lordship died on the 10th
May 1821 in the 56th year of his age | and this monu-
ment is erected by his affectionate and sorrowful Widow
ANNA BARONESS CLANMORRIS | as a memorial of conjugal
affection.
_____

'A very large high tomb over a vault ':-

Beneath | Are mingled in their kindred dust with those
of her beloved parent | The Right Honorable JOHN LORD
BARON CLANMORRIS | The Ashes of | The Honorable
CAROLINE AGLIONBY BINGHAM | A Young Lady | whose
exalted purity of mind, personal charms | and vigorous
and Cultivated understanding | rendered her at once a
Delight and Ornament to her Family. | On the 20th day
of April 1821 she was called to | a better world | At
the early age of 15 years | there to receive the reward
due to | Innocence and Virtue.

http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ire/mayo/cemeteries/hollymount-mem.txt
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Sunday 16 April 17 16:07 BST (UK)
http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1883/may/04/ireland-state-aided-emigration#S3V0278P0_18830504_HOC_57

IRELAND—STATE-AIDED EMIGRATION
HC Deb 04 May 1883 vol 278 cc1867-70
.......whether it is true that among the persons emigrated by the "Phœnician" on the 27th ult. was a young gentleman, Mr. Richard Bingham, son of Mr. Denis Bingham, J.P. of Bingham Castle, and whether, after the Viceroy, Earl Spencer, had paid a visit to his father, this young gentleman was provided on board the ship with special accommodation, and has obtained his passage gratis; whether thirty-six persons from the Newport Union have been left behind, ......... 
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Sunday 16 April 17 16:08 BST (UK)
Ann Bingham aged 81

William Bingham died May 1893 aged 83

http://irishgraveyards.ie/plot.php?plotno=292&yardid=432&section=B
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hanes teulu on Sunday 16 April 17 16:19 BST (UK)
Google Books

A topographic Dictionary of Ireland; comprising the several Counties of ...." etc; published 1837

Subscribers
Bingham, Major Denis, J.P., Bingham Castle, Belmullet, Co. Mayo
Bingham, William Esq, Bay-view, Binghamstown, Co. Mayo

"Binghamstown - or Saleen ... consists of one long street indifferently built; it commands a good view of Saleen Bay .... The parish church, a neat plain edifice, is situated in the village, in which is also an R.C. Chapel""

The only dwelling in Binghamstown marked on Old Irish maps is "Binghamstown House". Have seen elsewhere occupied by Lloyd?   
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hanes teulu on Sunday 16 April 17 17:37 BST (UK)
Church of Ireland Records (check out the 1922 loss of records in the Dublin fire)

https://www.ireland.anglican.org/cmsfiles/pdf/AboutUs/library/registers/ParishRegistersTable.pdf

Denis and William have been described as "Protestants" - Anglican probably?

P.S. - Aaaaaaaagh!! - just switched tele on to watch snooker and who was playing but Stuart BINGHAM - is there no escape?
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Sunday 16 April 17 20:43 BST (UK)
jennings
.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Sunday 16 April 17 20:50 BST (UK)
http://www.historicalballinrobe.com/page/the_ruins_of_cloonagashel_-_ballinrobe_co_mayo
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Monday 17 April 17 11:49 BST (UK)
Hi Hallmark ... Thanks .. your feeling that this is my William (1810 - May 1893) ... would the Anne be therefore Major Denis Bingham"s daughter who married Robert Augustus (her cousin) ... well done I'll pencil the info in ... looks like Castlebar's the place for the family plots .... again Thanks heaps
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Monday 17 April 17 12:21 BST (UK)
Hanes ....I believe there were graves including Maj Denis Bingham's father Henry's with inscription at Bingham Castle ie Chapel however most accounts list the Castle as no more than some overgrown foundation stones .... had thought the remains may have been re interned elsewhere ... they don't appear to be at the Binghamstown cemetery as they are later generations .... maybe Castlebar may still uncover more ... yes the Binghams tend to pop up anywhere ... I note the negative flavour between the Bourkes and the Binghams ...
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 17 April 17 16:13 BST (UK)
Hi Hallmark ... Thanks .. your feeling that this is my William (1810 - May 1893) ... would the Anne be therefore Major Denis Bingham"s daughter who married Robert Augustus (her cousin) ... well done I'll pencil the info in ... looks like Castlebar's the place for the family plots .... again Thanks heaps

?? No.... it MIGHT be your William. Depends on what the Inscriptions says as to who Ann is!!
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hanes teulu on Monday 17 April 17 17:49 BST (UK)
Memorials of the Dead:Galway & Mayo Transcriptions (FindMyPast)

Memorial Details - "Pray for the soul of/William Bingham/who died 13 may 1893/aged 83 years/also his wife Anne died/4th Jun 1881 aged 62 years"

Burial Place - Castlebar Old

Burial Place Type - Graveyard

Location - Just outside the town on the Westport Road .... All the memorials have been transcribed ... and are in the Castlebar County Library.

Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hanes teulu on Monday 17 April 17 20:39 BST (UK)
Trusting in the accuracy of the 1848 newspaper report of the death of William Bingham of Bayview , a "status" reflected in the newspaper marriage notice of his son Arthur Shean Bingham in 1854, very intrigued to spot

"CONVERSIONS
On the 6th inst. (the Feast of the Epiphany) Miss Bingham, third daughter of the late Mr William Bingham, solemnly abjured the errors of Protestantism and was received into the Catholic fold by the Rev. P. Malone at the town chapel, Belmullet. Miss Bingham's two eldest sisters were previously received into the Catholic Church ...".
(several newspaper reports January 1855)

Not sure what records would be kept of such a such a ceremony. On the basis it might involve baptism I checked the Catholic Registers for Belmullet around that time - but drew a blank


 
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Tuesday 18 April 17 04:27 BST (UK)
Hi guys ... 1848 death of William of Bay View seems to hold more water at this time....an age at death from the newspaper may help with his birth......I don't know of any children for William except my Arthur Shaen Bingham, who at current count had 10 children.... thanks
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: dathai on Tuesday 18 April 17 08:18 BST (UK)
Rev Patrick Malone
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Tuesday 18 April 17 10:54 BST (UK)
Hi Dahal .... sorry but after reading attachment can't seem to find aspect you refer to
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: dathai on Tuesday 18 April 17 11:37 BST (UK)
See reply 141 re Conversions

Dathai
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Tuesday 18 April 17 12:49 BST (UK)
Hi Dathai ... yes ..I will pencil Arthur with three sisters ... date 1855 would appear aligned to about twenty odd years old when compared to Arthur the brother born about 1830 .. maybe preparation for marriages .. thanks
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hanes teulu on Wednesday 19 April 17 09:21 BST (UK)
The parish registers for Belmullet can be found here   http://registers.nli.ie

There's an entry around Sep 1854 that reads "6th, The Rev'd Pat'k Malone, P P of Belmullet" which fits the newspaper item.

I have confirmed that conversion includes baptism and have rechecked Belmullet from 1848 - 1856. (began in '48 on basis the elder sisters would not have considered such a step while their father was alive). Cannot spot the name Bingham - though reading the lists is not easy. Suggest you double check and widen the search! The newspaper item refers to 6th Jan (1855)".

If the baptism were recorded would parents' names be included in these circumstances?

Another search option is to look for a Belmullet marriage. Unfortunately, the marriage records begin 1858 - which leaves a gap of 3 years into which a Miss Bingham marriage might easily have fallen.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: dathai on Wednesday 19 April 17 09:45 BST (UK)
Yes Hanes the priest would have recorded parents names in an adult baptism , i recently found a marriage in Bray for one of the wife's ancestor's but it was tough to make out her mothers name as the priest had crammed it up against one of the lines in the parent box on the marriage register i read it as Buckley from Chester so with her being English i thought to myself she might be protestant and went back through the Bray baptism register from the date of the marriage and found her at age 22 getting baptised a few weeks before her marriage and found her mother to be Burtill not Buckley.

see reply 10 here
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=768506.msg6212753#msg6212753
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 19 April 17 09:56 BST (UK)
Trusting in the accuracy of the 1848 newspaper report of the death of William Bingham of Bayview , a "status" reflected in the newspaper marriage notice of his son Arthur Shean Bingham in 1854, very intrigued to spot

"CONVERSIONS
On the 6th inst. (the Feast of the Epiphany) Miss Bingham, third daughter of the late Mr William Bingham, solemnly abjured the errors of Protestantism and was received into the Catholic fold by the Rev. P. Malone at the town chapel, Belmullet. Miss Bingham's two eldest sisters were previously received into the Catholic Church ...".
(several newspaper reports January 1855)

 

Strengthens my hunch that Denis' wife was "ignored" on Pedigree because she was RC!! Children followed her faith????

Just a hunch.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Wednesday 19 April 17 10:29 BST (UK)
Search may be a bit late ie 1855,  would have thought to find parents ... either births or baptisms and marriages of offspring .... looking for Maj Denis and his wife's name then births around 1790ish - 1805 to cover his offspring of several daughters and William, including marriages for same around 1810 - 1830, (his daughter Anne was married to Robert Augustus Bingham at St Peters in Dublin 27 Jul 1817 but his wife's name was not recorded if I remember correctly) ... finding Maj Denis or William's wives names is proving quite difficult....any ideas when or where Maj Denis may have been married ... I'm assuming 1790 -1800 to match Anne's birth (died 1881 @ 81 yrs) ... again thanks guys
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Wednesday 19 April 17 10:40 BST (UK)
Hi Hallmark ... there was a real hate relationship between Maj Denis and RC Rev Lyons through to as least the late 1830s especially the Dublin court case in 1833 including William's participation, I would think Denis would not have married a RC as he also promoted his own chapel of Church of Ireland and reluctantly allowed Lyons to have ground or accommodation in Binghamstown at the time.Is there any newspaper records of Denis's death through shooting incident 1842.... maybe a reference to a widow
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hanes teulu on Wednesday 19 April 17 18:48 BST (UK)
Dathai,
Thanks for the response.
The reason I asked the question about recording parents' names related to -
(a) they were Protestant
(b) the father (William) was deceased

It's possible Miss Bingham's details are recorded but simply somewhere in the register, not chronoligically. ie 6th Jan 1855.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hanes teulu on Wednesday 19 April 17 19:25 BST (UK)
Search may be a bit late ie 1855,  would have thought to find parents ... either births or baptisms and marriages of offspring .... looking for Maj Denis and his wife's name then births around 1790ish - 1805 to cover his offspring of several daughters and William, including marriages for same around 1810 - 1830,
Bob Queensland
Have you done ANY research into what Irish records are available re. the period you mention above?
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: conahy calling on Thursday 20 April 17 20:44 BST (UK)
How well do you speak Gaelic?

http://www.duchas.ie/en/cbes/4428006/4367460

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/irish-language/
If you need help translating Irish, you can post it on the "Irish Language" board. :)
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Saturday 22 April 17 15:14 BST (UK)
14th dragoons to 5th

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/12996/page/270
.
.

Well the 14th Dragoons got around, and Denis was about 23 when he changed to 5th, so where were they??
He was about 30 when he went to Erris!
.
.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Saturday 22 April 17 15:16 BST (UK)
transfer
.
.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Saturday 22 April 17 15:48 BST (UK)
5th Dragoons
.
.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Saturday 22 April 17 16:02 BST (UK)
Germany..
.
.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Saturday 22 April 17 19:04 BST (UK)


Had been searching for Bayview in that area (not yet found).
 

Bayview

.
.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Tuesday 25 April 17 12:05 BST (UK)
Hi helpers ... have just completed "Mayo Binghams" and there were still no links between Maj Denis Bingham and William Bingham Esq of Bay View. I have Births Marriages and Deaths documentation as far back as Arthur Shaen Bingham's marriage to Maria Savage on 20 Jul 1854 .... have confirmed Arthur's children including my grandfather Robert John and am awaiting correspondence from Doolough Lodge owner the partner of a descendant of my grandfather's sister Annie Matilda and marriage to William John Shaw on 29 Aug 1906.
My research into gravesites of Maj Denis and William throughout Mayo and Dublin has yet to produce a place ... it also appears that the old graves at old Bingham Castle site were desecrated and lay below areas of current overgrowth with no visible headstones ... Maj Denis may have been one of them. 
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Tuesday 25 April 17 12:17 BST (UK)
Hi again ... sorry for recent absence ... from "Peerage" and similar records the lines through Maj Denis Bingham's official line ie daughter Anne etc is very well documented ... marriage notices .. wills etc. I have now been concentrating my searching for evidence of the passing of ownership of Shaen estate acreages from Maj Denis through wills or Dublin newspapers to William and Arthur as listed in 1876 Landedgentry records for Erris Bingham Estates.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Tuesday 25 April 17 12:24 BST (UK)
Yes ... it has been almost impossible to research Irish records of 1790 to 1830 period ..
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 25 April 17 14:45 BST (UK)
Denis, 1853, in Chancery
.
.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 25 April 17 14:47 BST (UK)
William, Curraghboy
.
.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 25 April 17 14:51 BST (UK)
Denis renting from Ann...
.
.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 25 April 17 14:52 BST (UK)
Denis renting from Ann...
.
.

Image
.
.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 25 April 17 15:27 BST (UK)
Hi helpers ... 
My research into gravesites of Maj Denis and William throughout Mayo and Dublin has yet to produce a place ... it also appears that the old graves at old Bingham Castle site were desecrated and lay below areas of current overgrowth with no visible headstones ... Maj Denis may have been one of them. 
.
Might have also been buried in the Chapel adjoining Castle alongside father...
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 25 April 17 15:45 BST (UK)
Will
.
.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Wednesday 26 April 17 06:31 BST (UK)
Thanks Hallmark .... Henry the father left Maj Denis a large estate with home at Tuam .... no mention of William therefore born post 1790 ... The 1853 rentals appear as that of Anne and Robert Augusta's son Denis ... some 11 years after the death of Maj Denis who could possibly have been buried with his father at the chapel of the ruined and destroyed Bingham Castle of the 1920's however I would have expected that the rest of the Bingham family would have saved the graves and re-buried somewhere if they were Henry and Maj Denis's
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Wednesday 26 April 17 06:41 BST (UK)
I note two gravesites at Kilmore in receipts .... would they be at Curraghboy
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 26 April 17 09:43 BST (UK)
I note two gravesites at Kilmore in receipts .... would they be at Curraghboy
Trouble is there's a Kilmore in Mayo and Kilmore in Dublin and they were in both.

What happened to estates in Roscommon, King's Co and Westmeath?
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Wednesday 26 April 17 10:48 BST (UK)
Thanks Hallmark ... I'll do some research on the above estates ... although my focus is aligned to Gweesala and Doolough Lodge for Arthur and Bay View for William..... The Curraghboy sale was in one of your previous threads with Anne holding a piece for her lifetime as part of settlement.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Wednesday 26 April 17 11:02 BST (UK)
I believe Bingham remains at Galway were re-interred in the grounds of the Church of Ireland, Ardrahan..... has anyone a listing for Ardrahan ... seeking Maj Denis (1842) and father Henry (1789)
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 26 April 17 11:14 BST (UK)
http://historicgraves.com/graveyard/ardrahan/ga-ahan?page=1
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 26 April 17 11:29 BST (UK)
If they did have gravestones they probably wouldn't have lasted too long!

In 1882 the small farmland of Doolough, Mayo was in turmoil. “Many evictions had taken place in the preceding years in which the tenants were shown little mercy. At the time, the United Irish League were very active, some turning to arms to force the landlord to relinquish their estates.”1  Others were pushing to consolidate the hundreds of small subdivided farms, which were too small to sustain families, into larger workable pieces of land.

On October 3, 1881, one of the landlords Arthur Shaen Bingham who owned much of the land in Doolough and was on “bad terms” with many of his tenants was shot at while returning to Doolough from Belmullet.  He had evicted many of his tenants from their farms. Some suspects were arrested, but later released, and he was given police protection

So, if the United Irishmen wanted them out then out they would have gone!

You saw the photo of Castle with car outside, so almost a Century later.... IF they were buried in the adjacent Chapel then not too many would have been concerned about who was buried there, so their remains could easily still be there among the ruins.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Thursday 27 April 17 08:37 BST (UK)
Hi Hallmark ... thanks for Ardrahan... Binghams all seem to be from Lord Clanmorris lines although appears to have many illegible headstones
Re Doolough Lodge ... Arthur and family was still in residence in 1911 census and as in previous threads Arthur's wife and infant Robert John had graves at Belmullet.
Must have been really difficult times for all especially the Bingham landlords
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Thursday 27 April 17 08:46 BST (UK)
What state is the Chapel adjoining Castle in today? Does it still exist?
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Thursday 27 April 17 08:57 BST (UK)
In the 1830s, Major Bingham established Binghamstown, two miles south of Belmullet. This latter had a
better location, and took trade from Binghamstown.

Bingham put a gate across the road and tolled cattle driven to Belmullet. The Irish name for Binghamstown is ‘An GeataMór’ (The Large Gate). To avoid a toll, people drove cattle through the fields.

www.gaeltacht.info/files/3-culture/3-briefs/docs/BX4-The-Barony-of-Erris-EN.pdf
 
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Thursday 27 April 17 09:23 BST (UK)
An email to Deirdre might be rewarding..

http://www.mayococo.ie/en/NaSeirbhisi/Heritage/BuiltHeritage/ProtectedStructures/
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Thursday 27 April 17 09:28 BST (UK)
In 1795 Richard Bingham built his castle at Elly Bay.  It was built Castellated Style with the offices and gardens commensurating with the full extent of the building.  Built on the northern reaches of Elly Bay, today nothing substantial survives of Bingham Castle except for low grass covered foundations. 

A portion of the Castle was deliberately pulled down in 1929.  The remainder was subsequently removed over a period of years and the stone used to build later dwellings in the locality.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Thursday 27 April 17 11:34 BST (UK)
Hi Hallmark ... found the Bingham Castle Chapel of Ease location from historic ordinance map however not even a ruin is left ... only foundation stones of castle ... have to explore more with local inhabitants
Maj Bingham built Binghamstown and Castle in 1796 I believe... I will send Deirdre an email .. Thanks
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Thursday 27 April 17 11:44 BST (UK)
I have also read that Sir Richard built the castle in 1796 but his life does not go anywhere near that period ... he lived and died two hundred years prior ... he may have surveyed and laid a foundation for a castle when searching for the Spanish Armada because he had positioned his men on the west coast near Elly Bay, a pretty bay Sir Richard says he was taken by its beauty ... rumour has it that Maj Denis may have used this site or foundation to build his castle in 1796
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 01 May 17 11:19 BST (UK)
Major Bingham, having inherited almost half of Erris from his mother, formerly Frances Shaen, came to live here about 1796.

 After he married Elizabeth Nash of Cloontakilla, he began to settle at Bangor and built a dwelling house on a hillside overlooking the road. He later built Bingham Lodge on the western side of the town.

http://www.mayo-ireland.ie/en/towns-villages/bangor/bangor-history-brief-bangor.html
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 01 May 17 11:23 BST (UK)
This contradicts the above..

http://www.thepeerage.com/p22444.htm

Denis Bingham was born in 1818. He was the son of Robert Augustus Bingham and Anne Bingham.  He married Elizabeth Elinor Nash, daughter of Arthur Nash, in 1846  He died in 1902
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 01 May 17 12:45 BST (UK)
"Major" Denis Bingham died in a shooting accident in the first half of the nineteenth century.
The castle was destroyed by the IRA in 1925.

He also owned a "town" house in Binghamstown, about ten miles from the castle. Denis Bingham had fallen on hard times before he died.

At one stage he let Binghamstown house to the local Catholic priest. Later he operated Binghamstown
House as a brothel.

http://newsfeed.rootsweb.com/th/read/BINGHAM/2000-01/0947737390
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 01 May 17 13:32 BST (UK)
So... Denis was "of Dublin"
.
.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 01 May 17 13:46 BST (UK)
pt 2
.
.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 01 May 17 13:57 BST (UK)
Denis Bingham was a direct descendant of Sir Arthur Shaen, Baronet, by his wife, Susanna Shaen.

The Right Honorable Robert, Lord Clonbrock was a descendant of Susanna Shaen by her second husband, Robert Dillon.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Tuesday 02 May 17 06:59 BST (UK)
Hi Hallmark ... thanking you ... still digesting your information
So far .. Maj Denis living in Dublin Dec 1792 .... married to Elizabeth Nash of Cloontakilla who must have been from previous generations to the Elinor Elizabeth Nash who married Maj Denis's grandson Denis in 1846 (maybe a distant relative)??? ... Maj Denis was a descendant of the marriage of John Bingham to Frances Shaen (half heiress to Shaen Estates) one of two daughters of Sir Arthur and Susanne Shaen.... I did read about Binghamstown House ... it was leased to RC Rev Lyons prior ... maybe brothel a type of payback after Dublin libel court cases of 1833....sorry but am finding legibility and grammar of the writings difficult to decipher at the moment ... a purchase of land??
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Tuesday 02 May 17 07:07 BST (UK)
Hi guys ... still trying to link the 1662 acres owned in 1876 by my great grandfather Arthur Shaen Bingham to part of the Shaen Estate inherited by Maj Denis Bingham (Illegitimate son William - Great Great Grandfather still difficult and almost impossible to find birth information)
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 02 May 17 11:44 BST (UK)
Sir Arthur Shaen married first, Jane, daughter of Sir Samuel Hele, Baronet of Fleet, Co. Devon but by her had no issue.

He married secondly, Susanna, daughter of Morgan Magan, Esq. of Togherstown, Co. Westmeath and by her had three daughters, two who survived him when he died 24 June 1725.

The eldest daughter, Frances Shaen married 1 June 1738, John Bingham of Newport, Co. Mayo, a descendant of Sir Henry Bingham, former Governor of Connaught. The youngest daughter, Susanna, married twice, first in 1739 to James Wynne of Hazelbrook, Co. Sligo, who died in 1748 without issue.

She married secondly, 23 February 1750, Henry Boyle Carter of Castle Martin, Co. Kildare and great grandson of Thomas Carter, distinguished in the service of King William.
 
Susanna Shaen Carter survived her husband and died at her residence. North Saint George St., Dublin, October 1807, at a very advanced age.

Susanna Magan Shaen married Robert Dillon of Clonbrock following the death of her husband and subsequently became the grandmother of the first Lord Clonbrock.

A deed of release made the 14th of December 1792 between the Right Honorable Robert, Lord Clonbrock, Denis Bingham, Esquire and John Bournes of Stonefield, Gentleman, reveals that the lands of Carrownaglough (Stonefield) were granted to John of Stonefield for the sum of £240.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 02 May 17 11:51 BST (UK)
"Major" Denis Bingham died in a shooting accident in the first half of the nineteenth century.

The castle was destroyed by the IRA in 1925 and there is a reasonable chance Denis was buried there and the IRA wouldn't have been concerned about moving gravestones etc in the Chapel!

Quite the opposite and they were most likely locals.....
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Tuesday 02 May 17 12:06 BST (UK)
Thank you Hallmark .. I'll have to plan a journey to the area and explore the remains of the site to satisfy my quest to discover my g g g grandfathers gravesite ....I have recorded your information into the Shaen roots of my family as I still chase William and his linkage ....:)
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hanes teulu on Tuesday 02 May 17 19:25 BST (UK)
Denis did serve time -
DUBLIN KILMAINHAM PRISON GENERAL REGISTER 1789-1814

Name - Denis Bingham, age - 50, height - 5ft 9 inches, Committed by - Court of King's Bench, When committed - 28th November 1811, When discharged - 27th February 1812, Charged with - blank (although FindMyPast has incorrectly transcribed offence of previous prisoner), Sentence - Three Mths Impris, Fined £300 and to find security. 
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hanes teulu on Tuesday 02 May 17 19:39 BST (UK)
The following advert appeared 18 times between Feb and Aug 1792 in a Dublin newspaper

TO BE SOLD - the fee simple of the following lands; Tarfaghane, Sefken, Raigh, Tallahans, Drumreach, Ballymachfkeren, Carne, Forclogh, Terracmace, Arnagh, Emblicafk, Cloontekelly, Glancullen, Shranaploy, Leanaragh, Bellagelly, Roflduagh, Barrufky, Enver, Glancaftle, Drummullet, Donlagh, Carrowtige, Carroclogh, Dolough, Emblekeg, Barneagh, Lean, Knockbane, Alnebrocky, Sraghnekelly,, lying in the half Barony of Erris, and County of mayo, now set for upwards of £500 a year. No rents in Ireland are better paid or more secure.
Application may be made to D. Bingham, Efq., No. 2, Little Britain Street, or George Jenings, Efq., No 6, Skinner Row, where every satisfactory information respecting title may be had.

(have used character "f" to represent old "s")
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Wednesday 03 May 17 05:12 BST (UK)
Thanks Hallmark ... thats interesting .. makes his birth 1761ish and sale of lands advertised prior to building Bingham Castle and Binghamstown ... I wonder how much was sold .... may have got sufficient sold to finance his buildings etc ..... also my G Grandfather Arthur Shaen Bingham had a fair bit in Doolough around the Lodge I believe.... three months ... couldn't have been too heavy an offence??
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 03 May 17 09:23 BST (UK)
Thanks Hallmark ... thats interesting .. makes his birth 1761ish and sale of lands advertised prior to building Bingham Castle and Binghamstown ... 

See Reply #36  his father married 1761 and he wasn't 1st son!
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Wednesday 03 May 17 14:50 BST (UK)
Hi Hallmark ... yes I have Maj Denis father as Henry having sons John Henry and Denis and about seven daughters
Have just found William's wife was Maria Houston Bingham departed 22 Nov 1899 @ 99yrs WESTERN PEOPLE Dec 1899 Obituary for her (my grandfather Robert John attended the funeral)....... and my Grandfather's brother Denis's wife Ursula G Bingham death in 4 Mar 1934 @ 50 years ... both died at Doolough Lodge and buried at Bingham family burial ground at Belmullet ... still to locate grave
 Still have Maj Denis and unknown wife on my search list
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Wednesday 03 May 17 14:55 BST (UK)
Hi Hallmark ... I believe Maggsie may have William's mother and detail ... do you have contact with Maggsie as she has not answered previous thread ... maybe Maj Denis mistress??
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 03 May 17 17:39 BST (UK)
No don't have contact, but a lot of replies are cryptic instead of posting what was found!
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 03 May 17 19:09 BST (UK)
I have been following all this with interest but not that closely as there is such a lot of information - well done to hallmark for lots of the research plus all the other posters. Such a lot of detail!
At times I have looked the people or information up - I posted on the other thread a while ago.
I am curious because I can't find the death of Maria Houston Bingham in 1899. I have no access to the obituary so just relying on Bob's information.
Did she die in Doolough?

Heywood
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 03 May 17 19:58 BST (UK)
I have been following all this with interest but not that closely as there is such a lot of information - well done to hallmark for lots of the research plus all the other posters. Such a lot of detail!
At times I have looked the people or information up - I posted on the other thread a while ago.
I am curious because I can't find the death of Maria Houston Bingham in 1899. I have no access to the obituary so just relying on Bob's information.
Did she die in Doolough?

Heywood

Haven't crossed checked Civil Reg for this...

Name      MARTHA M [?] BINGHAM[?]
Address   13 [UNCLEAR] ROAD
Age   91
Date of Death   21 October 1898
Occupation   N/R

on irishgenealogy Church Records. No Image yet.

Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 03 May 17 20:00 BST (UK)
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01k1e/  link to above.

Some became RC
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 03 May 17 20:02 BST (UK)
....... and this is her C of I   ;D

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01k1f/
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 03 May 17 20:12 BST (UK)
I don't think that is Maria Houston Bingham though. The age and date of death are different  :-\
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 03 May 17 20:14 BST (UK)
Area - DUBLIN (COI) , Parish/Church/Congregation - ST. MARY

Marriage of WILLIAM BINGHAM of N/R and ELIZA FRANKLIN of N/R on 29 January 1825

https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=d-277-3-1-009
.
.

Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 03 May 17 20:15 BST (UK)
I don't think that is Maria Houston Bingham though. The age and date of death are different  :-\

No worries, I presume all these have been checked anyway.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 03 May 17 20:15 BST (UK)
....... and this is her C of I   ;D

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01k1f/

Hedging her bets  ;)
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 03 May 17 20:20 BST (UK)
....... and this is her C of I   ;D

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01k1f/

Hedging her bets  ;)

..or keep the 2 sides of family happy if mixed marriage   ;D
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 03 May 17 20:37 BST (UK)
"other" register... ? ?
.
,
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 03 May 17 21:30 BST (UK)
Eileen
.
.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Thursday 04 May 17 00:19 BST (UK)
Hi Haywood..... I received an email from an inquiry to Mayo Library historic staff and they sent me the newspaper cuttings for obituaries for several Binghams ... one was Maria Houston in "The Western People" Saturday December 2 1899 .... she died aged 99 yrs in the Doolough Lodge residence of Arthur Shean Bingham, my grandfathers place of birth ... I read from the text that she was widow of the late William Bingham Esq JP of Bayview House.. her actual date of death being 22 Nov 1899 ... funeral arrangements by Mr George Flynn of Imperial Hotel Ballina..... Thanks for your continued help guys
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Thursday 04 May 17 00:37 BST (UK)
Have you tried  http://www.GenesReunited.co.uk/searchbna you get snippets like


BINGHAM-Oct. 11, at 3 Bay View Irishtown, Denls G. C. A. Blng6am, eldest son of Deals Binghan, Bingham Castle, county Mayo, 
Freeman's Journal Dublin, Republic of Ireland  13 Oct 1876

John, second son of James Taylor, E*q , Villa Park, county Dublin, to Isabella, only child of Henry Bingham, E»q., and granddaughter of th« late Henry Bingham, Esq., Woodville, Killester.


At Bayview, of malignant fever, William Bingham, E89, DD' years a magistrate of that county. 
Freeman's Journal Dublin, Republic of Ireland    10 Feb 1848


http://www.GenesReunited.co.uk/searchbna/results?memberlastsubclass=none&searchhistorykey=0&keywords=bingham&county=dublin%2c%20republic%20of%20ireland&type=familynotice

Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Thursday 04 May 17 11:33 BST (UK)
The other register for Denis around the 1846 of this marriage notation .... Our Maj Denis was dead for 4 years by then .... I assume this entry is for Grandson Denis marriage to Nash in 1846 ... however thanks Hallmark
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Thursday 04 May 17 11:35 BST (UK)
I have Williams death from other sources .... love to find his mother and birth record ... maybe a Major Denis listed on it ???
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Thursday 04 May 17 14:55 BST (UK)
The other register for Denis around the 1846 of this marriage notation .... Our Maj Denis was dead for 4 years by then .... I assume this entry is for Grandson Denis marriage to Nash in 1846 ... however thanks Hallmark

So what is meant by "other register"??

That was what I was pointing out!!!
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Thursday 04 May 17 14:56 BST (UK)
Have you tried  http://www.GenesReunited.co.uk/searchbna you get snippets..... ??
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Thursday 04 May 17 14:57 BST (UK)
I have Williams death from other sources .... love to find his mother and birth record ... maybe a Major Denis listed on it ???

What sources??

No point in trying to help while you keep stuff to yourself!!
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Friday 05 May 17 10:48 BST (UK)
Hi Hallmark ... My apologies, I do appreciate your valued help ... by chance I had read a death notice in a Dublin Newspaper for William .. similar to the snippet you mentioned ... it also stated Bayview 29 Jan 1848 died at aged 50yrs of maliignant fever and an ex magistrate ... it seemed to fit :)
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Friday 05 May 17 11:12 BST (UK)
Bayview, Dublin?
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Friday 05 May 17 12:05 BST (UK)
Only mentioned Bayview without a county I'm afraid .....I would have thought Bayview to be in County Mayo closer to Belmullet peninsula for William to have worked at or near Binghamstown... I still haven't found an exact location even using 1830's Ordinance Maps
 
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Friday 05 May 17 12:28 BST (UK)
Hi Hallmark .. just reading through William"s wife Maria obituary .... she was buried in the Cross Cemetery in Belmullet in the family plot of the Protestant Church ... I would believe William would have been also buried there ... I'm awaiting further details of persons buried there from the Deirdre link at Mayo County Library and Protected Structures you furnished me ... this group had a funeral procession from Doulough Lodge to Belmullet, a distance of eight miles
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Friday 05 May 17 14:14 BST (UK)
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/woman-73-dies-in-mayo-house-fire-caused-by-candles-after-blackout-1.243738

Mrs McAndrew, whose maiden name was Bingham, was the last in line of the family which gave the tiny village of Binghamstown its name.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Saturday 06 May 17 08:53 BST (UK)
Hi Hallmark ... I believe Eileen was trying to have Binghamstown House recognized for its heritage value by the Belmullet Council, County Mayo ... I am trying to see where she fits in ...makes her birth in 1944... don't think she is in my line through William to Arthur and my Grandfather Robert ... as I have most Robert's brothers and sisters accounted for ....maybe through Robert Augustus and Anne side descendants ... as I have mainly chased the male heir side.... I was hoping to contact her for photos etc .... another Bingham I have emailed without answer yet has been Theresa Bingham-Daly of "Mayo Bingham" fame who I believe has retired back to Binghamstown, she lists herself as GGG Granddaughter of Maj Denis ... again thanks
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Tirjenkin on Sunday 07 May 17 23:37 BST (UK)
Re William Bingham, his marriage in 1825 to Maria Houston, daughter of Arthur Houston of Drum (near Binghamstown) is recorded in the Registry of Deeds, Dublin (memorial no. 809/491/545827). As part of the agreement, some lands held by Denis Bingham in the Mullet and in Doolough were placed in trust for William Bingham, as well as lands in Doolough  and Gortmore held by Arthur Houston.
One parcel of land was in the townland of Curraboy, by Saleen Harbour (to the south of Binghamstown) and it was here that William erected stores, also a dwelling house (Bay View) which was approx ¼ mile east of the harbour. The harbour enterprise was not particularly successful, so in early 1848 he leased the stores for use as an auxiliary workhouse and got the post of workhouse superintendent. This proved his undoing: he contracted fever and died later that year.
His widow Maria and her family (four daughters and two sons) continued to live at Bayview and she was still there in 1883, but by 1887 she was living in Doolough Lodge with her son Arthur and his family. Her eldest son, Willy, who immigrated to Australia in 1860, kept in regular contact and many of her letters to Willy have survived, thanks to his great grandson, Ian Phelan, now deceased.


Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Monday 08 May 17 10:57 BST (UK)
Hi Tirjenkin ... absolutely brilliant ... if possible could you also send us a link to the source of your information ... it answers many questions we have had until now ... also provides a link to Major Denis Bingham of Bingham Castle .... is Bayview house still standing and by chance would you have a resting place for Major Denis, William or Arthur ... sorry my mind is running
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 08 May 17 11:38 BST (UK)
They are all online....

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJ7-3SGG-T?i=338&cat=185720

Starts on  right hand page and all of next page!
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 08 May 17 11:40 BST (UK)
Snippet
.
.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 08 May 17 11:56 BST (UK)
One parcel of land was in the townland of Curraboy, by Saleen Harbour (to the south of Binghamstown) and it was here that William erected stores, also a dwelling house (Bay View) which was approx ¼ mile east of the harbour....

https://www.google.ie/maps/@54.1934988,-10.0386675,3a,75y,270h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2HcTHtzvhWT1ZiERHKAT-A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

no sign of any old house
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Monday 08 May 17 12:01 BST (UK)
Hi again Tirjenkin ... the letters to Ian Phelan from "Willy" ... is there still a linkage for access to Willy's life and descendants in Australia ... Willy's brother Arthur's son Robert John my grandfather traveled 1st class to Sydney Australia in 1911... Thanks heaps
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Monday 08 May 17 12:05 BST (UK)
Thanks also Hallmark ... I have downloaded the sections and am translating into plain english at the moment... this document actually is the first piece to link William to Major Denis as his son and shows a positive location for Bayview ... it also allows me to look for a descendant in Australia I had no knowledge of.. well done :)
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 08 May 17 12:09 BST (UK)
Ahh OK, it was just his grave you were looking for initially.

Did Denis leave a Will in whatever year he died?
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Monday 08 May 17 12:12 BST (UK)
Hi Hallmark ... true .. I couldn't see any either ... old stone wall behind the newer house but at least a good location to put on my itinerary for my trip to Ireland next year.... I would wonder the background of the protected harbour ... stores site was made into a workhouse ??
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Monday 08 May 17 12:15 BST (UK)
No will I know of ... this doc closest found so far... marriage grant ... you are right the graves are the ultimate destination of my searching
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Monday 08 May 17 12:27 BST (UK)
All I have is a shooting accident in 1842
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 08 May 17 13:15 BST (UK)
All I have is a shooting accident in 1842

You have...

"... in early 1848 he leased the stores for use as an auxiliary workhouse and got the post of workhouse superintendent. This proved his undoing: he contracted fever and died later that year. .."

You have his father buried in Chapel adjoining Castle..... so where do you expect Denis to be buried??

Having evicted and starved locals during the Famine, been distributor of relief food from America during Famine, where tenants had to hand in their leases to get food, or be allowed into workhouses giving up their bits of land, he wasn't a liked man.....

Buried in a Cemetery he'd have been dug up!
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Tirjenkin on Monday 08 May 17 21:42 BST (UK)
Re graveyards I have found very few surviving inscriptions in the protestant graveyards on the Mullet; erosion and vandalism have taken their toll. I was shown one informative headstone in Cross Abbey graveyard (not far from Binghamstown), a Houston stone:

SACRED
to the memory of
A Houstn Esqr Mrs
E Parkr Miss D P this
Monument is erectd
by Mrs M Houston
alias Crump the
belovd wife of sd
A H the dearly
belovd Daughtr of
sd    A OMalhy the
dear Sistr of DP
May their souls
RIP AMEN


(thats roughly how the inscription is laid out)

Refers to Arthur Houston and others; stone erected by his widow. (This is the same Arthur Houston as in the Marriage Settlement)

I have a photo which I'll post separately


Pob Hwyl!!
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Tirjenkin on Monday 08 May 17 23:38 BST (UK)
No joy with the photo, I'll try again another time. Re the Phelan letters, I have photocopies of most of them, so I'll get them scanned and send them on. Are you familiar with Rita Nolan's book "Within the Mullet"? There's a few extracts from those letters scattered through a few chapters; its a vexing book though, as it has no index.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Tuesday 09 May 17 11:53 BST (UK)
Hi Hallmark ... William dying of fever in 1848 .. I would guess his resting place to be similar to his wife, and son Arthur's wife and infant child at Cross Graveyard Protestant Cemetery in the family plot in Belmullet.
I would also guess that Major Denis (1842 death) to have his resting place at the destroyed (1925ish) Bingham Castle and Chapel site along with his father Henry .... what do you think ... Its going to be a difficult task to prove though..... as I don't think any remnants now exist
Seems from Tirjenkin that legible headstones may be also very difficult to chase ... I have read most of "Within the Mullet" and all of "Mayo Binghams", the first difficult to reference and the second aligned to Major Denis through daughter Anne line of the family. ... Love to read a few of the letters to help in a later search closer to home (Aust)
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Friday 12 May 17 11:38 BST (UK)
Hi Hallmark ... Thanking you for all your research help ... I believe we have gone as far as we can ... the old cross graveyard at Belmullet with its unreadable stones and the ruin of Bingham Castle may keep their residents from our eyes .. again thanks heaps
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: brionne on Friday 12 May 17 12:12 BST (UK)
Have not yet read this post completely but notice that Reply 237 by Tirjenkin has a grave inscription quoted which mentions,possibly an O Malley family member from Ballina Co Mayo,which is not far away from your area.A very elderly well connected lady by the name of O Malley lived in a small country house on The Quay Ballina 1980s this date may be wrong,but unfortunately lost her life in a fire.
 A O Malhy.     Not much help but may trigger another direction of research , Brionne
 
   
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Monday 15 May 17 12:42 BST (UK)
Hi Brionne ... the Bingham line is our main aspect ... looking for any grave-sites or records of inscriptions etc from Major Denis Bingham of about 1842, his death and the William branch of the family.
Again thank you
We have travelled as far as we can at present with the help of the fellow members of this great site.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 15 May 17 14:34 BST (UK)
You can see he wouldn't have been too popular... With 1000's dying/starving he robbed their food!!

Amongst the most active of these were Major Bingham and his son William; and there were now in Court the letters of William, .admitting that potatoes sent over for the relief of the poor were used as seed- potatoes in planting lands belonging to Major Bingham.


With Cholera/Typhus rampant when he died going anywhere near a graveyard would be the last thing anyone would do.

You can see O'Connell targeted him! Hence the Lyons case.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 15 May 17 14:47 BST (UK)
So now you'll have somewhere to stay...

The house was part of the Bingham estate and my husband, whose mother was a Bingham, is the last person from that family to live here permanently. He is hugely knowledgeable about local history and is happy to talk (when he is not working).

https://www.airbnb.co.uk/rooms/5109249
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Monday 15 May 17 15:07 BST (UK)
Hi Hallmark ... Thanks for all the info ... now time to start planning the trip .. a bit nervous about being a bingham especially on this line and the history ... I have just put some emails out to Mayo Council and historic groups should they identify any graves that are legible etc ... We have eighteen months to arrange all so plenty of time ... Have to make contact with the family at the Airbnb .. sounds informative
Kind regards ...
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: amac1210 on Tuesday 26 September 17 16:38 BST (UK)
Hi,

I have some information on the Binghams which may or may not be new to you. My Great-Great Uncle Anthony Kelly was a servant working at the house of Arthur Shane Bingham in 1901. He is listed on that census alongside a woman named Barbara Dean and a woman named Bridget Sally.

Residents of a house 5 in Doolough (Rathill, Mayo):
Bingham   Arthur Shane   71   Male   Head of Family   Church of Ireland
Bingham   Ellen   38   Female   Daughter   Church of Ireland
Bingham   Denis   34   Male   Son   Church of Ireland
Bingham   Annie   25   Female   Daughter   Church of Ireland
Dean   Barbara   88   Female   Servant   Roman Catholic
Kelly   Anthony   18   Male   Servant   Roman Catholic
Sally   Bridget   18   Female   Servant   Roman Catholic

What I can tell you is that my Great-Great Aunt, Anthony's sister, had a child named Denis Bingham. On his birth record, the name is Denis Kelly since he was illegitimate. He was born 28th July 1904, at Mingmore with his mother listed as Maria (her name is Mary on other records) and his Aunt Margaret Kelly also present. It is on the 1911 census we see his surname as Bingham. He lived with his Grandparents on the Kelly side of the family at that point. Given the connection with Anthony Kelly, I suspect Mary/Maria must have come into contact with the elder Denis Bingham and had a son by him. Or indeed another one of the Binghams? This would have been scandalous at the time no doubt. I have no idea what his later life involved.

I can also say that from what I know Arthur Shane Bingham had a reputation of conflict with the R.C. tenants, having one of them shot in the 1870s-1880s apparently. He himself suffered an assassination attempt in 1881. This makes me question how friendly Anthony Kelly and the family would have been with the Binghams? I know the Kellys were on the side of the IRA later on in the 1910s-1920s. It's all an interesting history. Anyway, I'm interested if you know yourself about this illegitimate child Denis?

Cheers,
Tony
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Tuesday 10 October 17 00:10 BST (UK)
Hi Tony .. All new ground for my studies ... interesting information. Knew about the assassination attempt. Wonder what happened to this Dennis .. Thanks for the info .. Bob
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Tuesday 10 October 17 03:05 BST (UK)
Hi again Tony ... I also note Denis Bingham married Ursela Eager in 1908 and had no children to this marriage .....he cared for his nieces (Shaw) and nephew (Shaw) after (Annie Matilda) his sister's death in 1919 until he died in 1938 ... just a bit of extra info .. cheers Bob
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Tuesday 10 October 17 03:10 BST (UK)
Hi again Tony ... true to form my line originated from Arthur's father William the illegitimate son of Major Denis Bingham of Bingham Castle (It was destroyed by the IRA around 1920).... Cheers from down under Bob
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: amac1210 on Tuesday 10 October 17 17:27 BST (UK)
Hi Bob,

Some things to consider there then! It would seem very likely my Denis Bingham is your Denis' son, but through illegitimate pregnancy. It was suggested to me by the family and some other RootsChat members that it is likely this child was conceived through rape. If so that is very sad for both our families. I can tell you for a fact that Anthony Kelly's children were raped themselves, by "Black and Tans", in the '10s and '20s. However, we'll never know in this case and I wouldn't want to judge people on speculative scandal. I would hope this was an innocent love affair between Denis and Mary Kelly. The positive we know is that it seems there is a connection! I can't find anything on my  younger Denis after that, and it is possible the name was changed to Kelly - but you'd have relations in my own extended family if he left descendants.

There is a family story about a house being burnt down during the Troubles. It is thought that my Great-Great Uncle Anthony Kelly may have participated in that. It sounds like the burning of the Bingham's Castle would have attracted a lot of support in the Catholic community, and especially from Anthony Kelly who had served the family for many years at Doolough. Like I said he was no supporter of the Binghams, quite the opposite!

Hope this is of interest.

My Best,

Tony

Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: amac1210 on Tuesday 10 October 17 17:53 BST (UK)
Further to my last message Bob,

Do you have any photographs of Arthur Shane Bingham and his son Denis Bingham? These would be very interesting to see and I can try and find some older photographs of young Denis and other relations.

p.s. your family does seem very interesting. I read up on their origins, they came from the old Shayn Baronets - hence Arthur's middle name. That family can be traced link-by-link to an aristocrat sent to Ireland by Queen Elizabeth I who was the Monarch that really began the whole "Troubles". The conflict between Catholic Ireland and Protestant Britain was much older than the 20th century. But coming back to this noble, who you descend from directly, his own folks can be traced back again link-by-link to the ancient Royalty of England and Scotland and indeed Ireland! Hope that's interesting.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 10 October 17 18:24 BST (UK)
Why not just contact the Binghans at the B&B??
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Wednesday 11 October 17 05:45 BST (UK)
Hi Tony .. The line is rich in royal influence ... one link had also lead through to the Earl of Spencer (Princess Diane) line.  I have traced the my line back through to the Normans via a Richard de Buisli, the family later purchased property at Bingham England then changed surname to de Bingham .... I'm afraid I haven't been able to obtain any photos prior to my own father here in Australia ... I have been in communication with the present owner Colin Mellet at Doolough Lodge, the partner of a descendant of Annie Matilda Bingham who married William Shaw, to see if any archival photos of the kids growing up at the lodge but so far no luck ... Thanks for your info ... may have to go incognito when we explore Mayo Ireland in 2019 ... I dearly want to see the castle's foundation stones and other family infrastructure that may have survived the turbulent times ... again thanks for your input, cheers Bob and Marilyn
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Wednesday 11 October 17 05:48 BST (UK)
Hi Hallmark .. a bit lazy I'm afraid contact with the airbnb is still on my to do list.. I was hoping Colin may have been able to supply relevant infofrom the days at Doolough Lodge .. Cheers Bob
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Wednesday 11 October 17 06:05 BST (UK)
Hi Hallmark ... just sent off communication to Lucy at airbnb suggested, I'll wait for a response .. cheers Bob
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Connaught on Friday 15 June 18 11:22 BST (UK)
Hi Bob

Just been browsing this website for family information and came across this thread. I would also be a GG-Grandson of Arthur Shean Bingham of Doolough Lodge. I had been unsuccessful in connecting him to Major Dennis and suspected something illegitimate somewhere!
Attached is another view of Binghamstown Castle from an old family postcard and a rather faded copy of two newspaper reports of Arthur's assassination from a family album.
Trust this finds you well, and I hope your search has been fruitful.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Connaught on Friday 15 June 18 12:43 BST (UK)
Ops! I think I should have inserted those as thumbnails  ???
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Tuesday 19 June 18 11:25 BST (UK)
Oops ...internet very poor here ... just acknowledging have your photos ...thanks mate ....l ll make a better contact in a few days ...kind regards  Bob Bingham ....maybe a distant relative hey ... :)
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 19 June 18 11:57 BST (UK)
Did you email B& B?

Any luck?
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Connaught on Tuesday 19 June 18 12:20 BST (UK)
Oops ...internet very poor here ... just acknowledging have your photos ...thanks mate ....l ll make a better contact in a few days ...kind regards  Bob Bingham ....maybe a distant relative hey ... :)

Thanks Bob - Arthur's daughter Susan was my Great Grandmother - I'll leave you to work out the relationship!!!
John (Connaught)
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Monday 25 June 18 04:11 BST (UK)
Hi John
At last a reliable internet location ... been travelling OZ this last two months
Again thanks for the information. I didn't have Susan as a sister of Arthur Shaen Bingham, I have William (Willy) who went to OZ in 1860, Anne who married into the Rowan family, Ellen , Houston , Matilda who married McLaughlin and settled in USA, and Dina who married Lavelle and also went to USA to Ohio ...
Could you fill me in on your line from Susan so I can include the information on my spreadsheet.
You mentioned a photograph of Arthur Shaen Bingham, love to see it
Until next time .. Kind regards Bob 
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Monday 25 June 18 08:56 BST (UK)
Hi john  ...
Again oops ... I read your last as Arthur's sister but should have read daughter ... The information I have puts Arthur Shaen bingham's sons and daughters as follows: Samuel Bingham (1859-1946) married cousin Matilda sailed to Chicago, Jane Bingham (1862-1934) married John Claxton lived at Dysart House, Ellie Bingham (1863-1950) lived at Doolough Lodge (Spinster), Arthur Bingham (1866-1911?) married Margaret Bury lived in Dublin, Denis Bingham (1867-1938) married Ursela Eager lived at Doolough Lodge, Robert John (1889-1869) died as infant, my Robert John Bingham (1871-1933) married Sarah Allen in Sydney, and Annie Matilda Bingham (1875-1919) married William Shaw..... I have no Susan .... do you have a link I don't have.
Till next reply .. Kind regards Bob Bingham
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Monday 25 June 18 09:09 BST (UK)
Hi Hallmark ... been a while .. yes I did contact AirB&B but a dead end ... I will still be going to Ireland in a year or two but will tour in a motorhome instead .. there's so much for us to explore both in Ireland and other links into Dorset UK ... Still sourcing William's mother and Maj Denis link ... have memoranda land gifts from Maj Denis Bingham and Arthur Houston upon William Bingham marriage to Maria Houston but that is the only proof of a rather type link... kind regards Bob
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Connaught on Monday 25 June 18 12:35 BST (UK)
Hi Hallmark ... been a while .. yes I did contact AirB&B but a dead end ... I will still be going to Ireland in a year or two but will tour in a motorhome instead .. there's so much for us to explore both in Ireland and other links into Dorset UK ... Still sourcing William's mother and Maj Denis link ... have memoranda land gifts from Maj Denis Bingham and Arthur Houston upon William Bingham marriage to Maria Houston but that is the only proof of a rather type link... kind regards Bob

Hi Bob – I appear to have lost the Australian branch of the family…sorry about that!!!  ???
My records are from some newspaper cuttings (obituaries etc) and notes my parents made when they were trying to interest us in the family history some years ago. I wonder if Mother didn’t realise there were two Robert Johns?
I have Arthur Shean Bingham family as follows:
Annie – My parents new her decendents
Ellen - Unmarried
Dennis -Married Ursula, no family
Susan Maria* b.1864 – Married John Hinchliff, moved to Yorkshire.
Jane – Married John Claxton (As a small boy I knew their son also Arthur - see photo)
Arthur – Married Margaret Bury (As a small boy I met their son Bev Bingham)
Robert John – Died at 2 months.
Samuel – Chicago
Robert John – Your branch – I have no record of at all.

*Susan Maria Bingham b. 8th March1856 / married 21st October 1879 / died 7th April 1932
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Connaught on Monday 25 June 18 12:41 BST (UK)
Hi John
At last a reliable internet location ... been travelling OZ this last two months
Again thanks for the information. I didn't have Susan as a sister of Arthur Shaen Bingham, I have William (Willy) who went to OZ in 1860, Anne who married into the Rowan family, Ellen , Houston , Matilda who married McLaughlin and settled in USA, and Dina who married Lavelle and also went to USA to Ohio ...
Could you fill me in on your line from Susan so I can include the information on my spreadsheet.
You mentioned a photograph of Arthur Shaen Bingham, love to see it
Until next time .. Kind regards Bob

Photo of John Claxton's grave, wife Jane and son Arthur who I remember seeing when I was a small boy.
Photo of Arthur Shean Bingham (seated) with my GGrandfather John Hinchliff. No date but I wondered if it was when John married Susan Bingham October 1879?
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Tuesday 26 June 18 04:45 BST (UK)
Hi John
Thanks for the photos, I have been looking for Arthur Shaen's Grave for a long time and his photo is great. I'll place your information into my research ... good to have another member of the family to fit into the jigsaw, I'll try to send you a spreadsheet attachment including our line in OZ. Susan's marriage prior to 1901 Census maybe why I have missed her. Robert John my Grandfather had a daughter Jean and a son Robert Roland my father, who married a teacher Daphne McMahon and had two sons Myself and Peter and a daughter Michelle. I married M T and had two sons S and B ... S is married to a japanese girl S and has lived in O Japan for many years  he has two children (our grandchildren)  ... he races, builds and exports performance vehicles all over the world. My son B is in the army and is an avionics technician working on choppers and drones. M and I have been retired for over ten years now and travel extensively. One of my brothers sons is an electrician and his family has lived in London for over ten years.... anyway enough for now ....  cheers and welcome ... Bob
OOPS .. can't send an excel sheet ...
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Tuesday 26 June 18 04:59 BST (UK)
Hi John ... a thought ... John looks a bit older than at his marriage to Susan when she was 15 or 16.
I didn't realise that Jane called her son Arthur Shaen. Do you have any details on my great grandfather's Arthur Shaen Bingham  gravesite. ... again thanks Bob
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Tuesday 26 June 18 06:07 BST (UK)
Oops again .... sorry John ... Susan was 24 at marriage to John so you may be right on timeframe of the photo of Arthur and John ...regards Bob
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Connaught on Tuesday 26 June 18 10:24 BST (UK)
Hi John ... a thought ... John looks a bit older than at his marriage to Susan when she was 15 or 16.
I didn't realise that Jane called her son Arthur Shaen. Do you have any details on my great grandfather's Arthur Shaen Bingham  gravesite. ... again thanks Bob

Morning Bob - our ancestors don't appear to have had much imagination with forenames as the same names are repeated generation after generation!
Arthur Shaen Bingham's obituary just states that the funeral cortege went from Doolough to Belmullet, however his wife's obituary refers to "The Protestant Cemetery" Belmullet. Can we assume they were buried together?
Arthur's mother, Mrs Maria Houston Bingham, obituary refers to her as "the relict" (widow) of William Bingham of Bay View House, she died at Doolough but was buried at Cross Cemetery. There appears to be a New Cross Cemetery now but the old one I think is on the coast, west of Binghamstown
Unfortunately Google Maps has that area (West of Binghamstown) under cloud!!! #
Kind regards
John
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 26 June 18 10:42 BST (UK)
http://goldenlangan.com/graves-bt/BINGHAM,%20Benjamin%20Henry%20George%201879,%20BT.JPG

http://goldenlangan.com/graves-bt/BINGHAM,%20Bentinck%20Agliomby%201917,%20BT.JPG

http://goldenlangan.com/graves-bt/BINGHAM,%20Geraldine%20Eileen%202000,%20BT.JPG

http://goldenlangan.com/graves-bt/BINGHAM,%20Henry%201894,%20BT.JPG

http://goldenlangan.com/graves-bt/BINGHAM,%20Henry%20Shaen%201975,%20BT.JPG

http://goldenlangan.com/graves-bt/BINGHAM,%20Margaret%20Theresa%201875,%20BT.JPG
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Connaught on Tuesday 26 June 18 11:50 BST (UK)
Hi John
Thanks for the photos, I have been looking for Arthur Shaen's Grave for a long time and his photo is great. I'll place your information into my research ... good to have another member of the family to fit into the jigsaw, I'll try to send you a spreadsheet attachment including our line in OZ. Susan's marriage prior to 1901 Census maybe why I have missed her. Robert John my Grandfather had a daughter Jean and a son Robert Roland my father, who married a teacher Daphne McMahon and had two sons Myself and Peter and a daughter Michelle. I married M T and had two sons S and B ... S is married to a japanese girl S and has lived in O Japan for many years  he has two children (our grandchildren)  ... he races, builds and exports performance vehicles all over the world. My son B is in the army and is an avionics technician working on choppers and drones. M and I have been retired for over ten years now and travel extensively. One of my brothers sons is an electrician and his family has lived in London for over ten years.... anyway enough for now ....  cheers and welcome ... Bob
OOPS .. can't send an excel sheet ...
Our branch gets complicated. Susan married John Hinchliff from Yorkshire, there are family stories of how they met. One of their sons was a butcher/in the meat trade and traveled to Ireland with work where he met........Emily Claxton, cousin (?) of Jane & John. They married and moved back to Yorkshire, but returned to Ireland to take over the farm when Emily's brother emigrated to Canada in the early1900's.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Tuesday 26 June 18 12:33 BST (UK)
Hi John
Your line is an interest to us . We have several cuttings and birth and marriage certificates back to Arthur also that we will send on later. Have sent you our spreadsheet for perusual. Late evening here in OZ catch up again soon
Regards
Bob
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Tuesday 26 June 18 13:08 BST (UK)
Hi John .. Thanks for your cemetery assistance ... I have similar info but on Google Maps etc Old Cross and Protestant Cemetery in Bulmullet is still hiding from us .. may have to go there in person to explore .. again thanks ... off to bed now .. catch up tomorrow Bob
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 26 June 18 13:38 BST (UK)
Cross Abbey Graveyard Headstones
This very old graveyard is situated on a hill in the grounds of the Cross Abbey ruins and is surrounded by the Atlantic ocean on three sides.  It commands spectacular views of a beautiful sandy beach to the south-west, and several small islands (including Inishglora) about a mile away.  It is just a few hundred yards west of the new Cross cemetery and a few more hundred yards from the old Belderra graveyard.

Most of the graves have no legible markers or the headstones are too old and weathered to be read.

Number of headstones:    60+ legible headstones
Date range:                    1830 to 1975 (observed)
Recorded:                       all legible headstones photographed June 2013

No Binghams!!
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Connaught on Tuesday 26 June 18 17:18 BST (UK)
Cross Abbey Graveyard Headstones
This very old graveyard is situated on a hill in the grounds of the Cross Abbey ruins and is surrounded by the Atlantic ocean on three sides.  It commands spectacular views of a beautiful sandy beach to the south-west, and several small islands (including Inishglora) about a mile away.  It is just a few hundred yards west of the new Cross cemetery and a few more hundred yards from the old Belderra graveyard.

Most of the graves have no legible markers or the headstones are too old and weathered to be read.

Number of headstones:    60+ legible headstones
Date range:                    1830 to 1975 (observed)
Recorded:                       all legible headstones photographed June 2013

No Binghams!!

Thanks Hallmark - I was over in Belmullet and Binghamstown a few years ago but didn't explore that far........Next time!
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Connaught on Tuesday 03 July 18 16:18 BST (UK)
Cross Abbey Graveyard Headstones
This very old graveyard is situated on a hill in the grounds of the Cross Abbey ruins and is surrounded by the Atlantic ocean on three sides. 

No Binghams!!

Hi Hallmark

I have found a reference in my notes to "Kilcommon Erris Cemetry" as a possible burial site for Arthur Shean Bingham. Do you have any information on this burial site?
Thanks
John
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 03 July 18 19:08 BST (UK)
I don't... there was the g/stone posted from some Cemetery, somewhere. 

is this him?
.
.
.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Connaught on Tuesday 03 July 18 22:51 BST (UK)
I don't... there was the g/stone posted from some Cemetery, somewhere. 

is this him?


No, that's Daughter and Son-in-law buried in Maryborough/Port Laoise.

Thanks
John
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 03 July 18 23:06 BST (UK)
Cross Abbey Graveyard Headstones
This very old graveyard is situated on a hill in the grounds of the Cross Abbey ruins and is surrounded by the Atlantic ocean on three sides. 

No Binghams!!

Hi Hallmark

I have found a reference in my notes to "Kilcommon Erris Cemetry" as a possible burial site for Arthur Shean Bingham. Do you have any information on this burial site?
Thanks
John

References to Kilcommon Erris cemetery
https://www.cwgc.org/find-a-cemetery/cemetery/2069349/kilcommon-erris-church-of-ireland-churchyard/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/16132340@N07/12388858773
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 03 July 18 23:55 BST (UK)
Cross Abbey Graveyard Headstones
This very old graveyard is situated on a hill in the grounds of the Cross Abbey ruins and is surrounded by the Atlantic ocean on three sides. 

No Binghams!!

Hi Hallmark

I have found a reference in my notes to "Kilcommon Erris Cemetry" as a possible burial site for Arthur Shean Bingham. Do you have any information on this burial site?
Thanks
John


Have you not searched on golden langan?  Very few Binghams!!

Dozens of Cemeteries....

  1    Abbey, Ballina
  2    Addergoole
  3    Ardagh
  4    Ballinahaglish
  5    Ballinglen
  6    Ballycastle
  7    Ballycroy
  8    Ballysakeery
  9    Bangor
  10  Belderrig
  11  Binghamstown
  12  Bofeenaun
  13  Bonniconlon
  14  Bonnifinglas
  15  Carne
  16  Claggan
  17  Cloghans
  18  Colony, Achill
  19  Craggagh
  20  Cross Abbey
  21  Cross, Belderra
  22  Cross, new
  23  Crossmolina
  24  Crosspatrick
  25  Curraunboy
  26  Doohooma
  27  Doonfeeny
  28  Emlybeg
  29  Fahy
  30  Fallmore
  31  Geesala
  32  Glenamoy
  33  Glencastle, main
  34  Glencastle, new
  35  Glencastle, old
  36  Holy Trinity, Achill
  37  Inver
  38  Kilbelfad
  39  Kilbride
  40  Kilcummin
  41  Kildownet, new
  42  Kildownet, old
  43  Kilfian, new
  44  Kilfian, old
  45  Kilgalligan
  46  Kilgarvan
  47  Killala
  48  Killeen old
  49  Killogeary
  50  Kilmurray
  51  Kiltane
  52  Lacken new
  53  Lacken old
  54  Leigue, Ballina
  55  Lisheen
  56  Moygawnagh new
  57  Moygawnagh old
  58  Mullafarry
  59  Mullafarry old
  60  Pollatomish
  61  Rathfran
  62  Rathreagh
  63  Slievemore main
  64  Slievemore new
  65  Slievemore old
  66  Straide Abbey
  67  Straide Church
  68  Straide new
  69  Straide old
  70  St Johns, Ballyc.
  71  St Marys, Xmolina
  72  St Michaels Bal'na
  73  St Patricks, Killala
  74  St Thomas, Achill
  75  Teampall Maol
  76  Templemore
  77  Termoncarragh
  78  Toomore new
  79  Toomore old


  Ballycastle Deaths
  Ballycastle Marriages
  Bonnifinglas Burials
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 03 July 18 23:57 BST (UK)
http://goldenlangan.com/graves-bt/BINGHAM,%20Benjamin%20Henry%20George%201879,%20BT.JPG

http://goldenlangan.com/graves-bt/BINGHAM,%20Bentinck%20Agliomby%201917,%20BT.JPG

http://goldenlangan.com/graves-bt/BINGHAM,%20Geraldine%20Eileen%202000,%20BT.JPG

http://goldenlangan.com/graves-bt/BINGHAM,%20Henry%201894,%20BT.JPG

http://goldenlangan.com/graves-bt/BINGHAM,%20Henry%20Shaen%201975,%20BT.JPG

http://goldenlangan.com/graves-bt/BINGHAM,%20Margaret%20Theresa%201875,%20BT.JPG




Not too many more on goldenlangan!!
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 04 July 18 07:20 BST (UK)
Connaught,
Perhaps you just made a note of the area rather than the cemetery itself.

Heywood

Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Connaught on Wednesday 04 July 18 10:07 BST (UK)
Connaught,
Perhaps you just made a note of the area rather than the cemetery itself.

Heywood

Thanks to both of you for the information. I'm using some old notes which were passed to me and are a bit vague!!
Thanks
John
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Kathleenmary on Monday 07 January 19 21:00 GMT (UK)
Hi Bob
Major Denis Bingham married Katherine Geraghty sister of Bridget who married Edward Kelly in maybe 1775.
Edward was overseer for Bingham and travelled with him from Newbrook to West Mayo to organise the estates there. The two girls were daughters of farm workers on the estates in West Mayo.
 Katherine was known as Kitty and was Roman Catholic. As far as I know they had one daughter....

The two men worked closely together until Edward’s eldest son Thomas was involved in the 1798 Rebellion. Edward and Denis Were alienated from this time. I dont know how this affected Bridget and Katherine’s relationship but the clues to your William may be found via Katherine..
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Tuesday 15 January 19 07:05 GMT (UK)
Hi Kathleen
Thanks great news
Major Denis Bingham'a only daughter was recognised as Anne who married her 1st cousin Robert Augustus Bingham. My GG Grandfather William was Major Denis's illegitimate son and was recognised in many pieces of correspondence as working closely with Major Denis, I have no birth cert for William but believe he was born prior to Anne in late 1780's or early 1790's. Did your info have any link to a earlier relationship of Major Denis, I have a Kelly in William's staff list, and also in his son's residence at Doulough Lodge in early 1800's. Probably a pretty common name though. I was lead to believe a Kelly tried to assassinate Arthur.
Again Thanks, your info gives me a new line of investigation.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Kathleenmary on Wednesday 16 January 19 01:53 GMT (UK)
Hi Bob

I don't have any history about Denis Bingham's life before he went to Erris, only that my ancestor Edward Kelly went with him to be his steward and look after his holdings in Erris. I believe the two went up from Newbrook where the other Binghams were. Earlier Kellys may have been in Castlebar but I don't know. Of course there are Kellys everywhere! On my line there were none in Erris/Belmullet until Edward went up with Bingham.

Edward and Denis were estranged after the 1796 rebellion that saw Edward's son Thomas (25 years) transported to Barbados for his role in that uprising. Thomas died of yellow fever while working the sugar plantations there.

Unlikely that any one from that family continued to work for the Bingham's.

I don't know anything about the sisters, Katherine and Bridget Geraghty and would very much like to. Not sure where to start with them...Katherine must have known of William's existence! Her descendants may know something. Stay in touch.




Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 16 January 19 07:57 GMT (UK)
Has anyone searched Wills/Deeds/Marriage Settlements etc?

These are from  Grantor index  B 1708-1729

or one could start from the latest ones 1925-1929  and go back in time!!

As per   https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=765484.0

.
.
.

Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 16 January 19 08:09 GMT (UK)
1925-1929 ones.......


j]
b
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 16 January 19 10:28 GMT (UK)
Just doodling.....


This gets one the date of an earlier Marriage Settlement of 1825....plus snippets of information!

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSK3-9SSM-5?i=260&cat=185720
m
m
n
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Wednesday 16 January 19 11:21 GMT (UK)
 :) Hi Hallmark and KathleenMary
Thanks again for your input
I have the deed for the Marriage Settlement of 1825 where Major Denis Bingham deeds property etc to his son William Bingham on his marriage to Maria Houston.
Your thread has given me some extra bits to add to my files, trustee a Colonel in India in 1859. I assume that is a Lord Clanmorris, a Henry Bingham, Major Denis's brother?
William died in 1848.
The info from KathleenMary has given me a new direction for Major Denis wife? I still haven't found mother of William or his birth cert. I don't think Katherine (nee Geraghty) would have been William's mother. I'll look into the Geraghty sisters to find dates etc to match or not match William.
Regards Bob
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 16 January 19 11:40 GMT (UK)
Birth Certs start 1864!
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Wednesday 16 January 19 11:42 GMT (UK)
Hi Hallmark
Just doodling also
The deed you posted I think refers to the trustee of the 1825 Deed on the marriage of my GGG Grandfather William Bingham (deceased) to Maria Houston, but it mentions his sons William and my GG Grandfather Arthur. William quickly immigrated to Australia in 1860, just after the date of your deed. I haven't been able to download the rest of the deed you posted to see what was the outcome.
Regards Bob again
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Wednesday 16 January 19 11:45 GMT (UK)
Hi Hallmark
Thanks again
Williams birth was around 1790 so I will have to explore church records or other civil records
Kinnd regards
Bob
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 16 January 19 12:04 GMT (UK)
Arthur S is "now the eldest son"..... were there older sons who died??
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Wednesday 16 January 19 13:23 GMT (UK)
Hi Hallmark
Not that I am aware of.
I had thought William jnr to be older than Arthur by two years. On a third son Houston I have no inf. The other four siblings were girls. My line came from Arthur.
Regards Bob
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 16 January 19 13:27 GMT (UK)
Just think the wording is "strange"!
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 16 January 19 13:30 GMT (UK)
m
m
m
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Wednesday 16 January 19 14:44 GMT (UK)
Hi Hallmark
I agree, i'll confirm dates of birth again, I have nothing on Houston may have been eldest and died??
but then William jnr would have to be younger than Arthur. I'll sleep on it
Thanks
Bob
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Thursday 17 January 19 03:52 GMT (UK)
Hi KathleenMary
Just for info for you, probably a bit of gossip.
Anthony Kelly jnr was a servant at Doolough Lodge working for my G Grandfather Arthur Shean Bingham in 1901 census. His sister Maria Kelly on 28 Jul 1904 had a child to Arthur's son Denis Bingham, she called the boy Denis Bingham Kelly, Margaret Kelly (mother or sister) was at birth. Margaret had twins Rose and John on 17 Apr 1905. (Denis Bingham later married Ursala Eagar in 1908 and had no offstring.) A Kelly decendent gave me this info in a previous post. I confirmed birth of Denis Bingham Kelly. Love to find out more about the Geraghty sisters.
Kind regards
Keep in touch Bob
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Thursday 17 January 19 04:00 GMT (UK)
Hi Hallmark
I had been led to believe William the older brother of Arthur immigrated to Australia in 1860, he may have left in 1859 (it took a few months to get to Oz then) which would leave the "now the eldest son" statement to have more weight. I'll look for his passage details to confirm date of his leaving.
Thanks again
Bob
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Wednesday 23 January 19 04:58 GMT (UK)
Hi Hallmark
Have you access to the other parts of the memorial (Deed) above. I am keen to read the settlement and how it affected the two sons, William (younger) and Arthur (eldest).
I was wondering whether it may have caused a split and William's relocation to Australia.
Thank you in advance
Bob
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 23 January 19 06:59 GMT (UK)
I posted a direct Link to it!
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Wednesday 23 January 19 09:15 GMT (UK)
Hi Hallmark
Thank you, found your link, printed the info and am currently digesting the material.
Kind regards
Bob
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Kathleenmary on Wednesday 31 July 19 12:02 BST (UK)
Williams mother was Katherine Geraghty, William was born before Denis and Katherine were married so could not inherit. There were problems because Katherine was Catholic..Denis a Protestant. I have just come across some more of my own family history from this time. William was not recognised despite the fact that Katherine and Denis later married and had Anne. Often there is no mention of William at all...a bit sad really.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Thursday 01 August 19 08:06 BST (UK)
Hi Kathleenmary
Been a while, great to hear from you, Thank you for Maj Denis wife, Katherine Geraghty, William's mother. Have been unable to find marriage date or location. William born pre marriage explains a bit especially her being Catholic, did she come from the area around Binghamstown or further afield. I don't seem to be able to find her or her background.
Again many thanks
Bob
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Kathleenmary on Friday 02 August 19 00:50 BST (UK)
Hi Bob

Katherine was from the area I believe. My Ancestor married Katherine's sister Bridget. Unfortunately I believe the church burned down with all the records so dates are a bit hard to confirm. Katherine was very young maybe around 18 when they met...strange there were only two children William and Anne. I believe William was granted some of the Estate...

There are Geraghtys still around Bellmullet I think. I would like to now more about the sisters as well and have seen some info on the families on other sites...but nothing concrete. There have been may "Kittys" My ancestor Edward Kelly and Bridget had a few children...unlike the Geraghtys, the Kellys were not from that area as Edward travelled up with major Denis. I am not related to the other Kellys you mentioned. Cheers.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Tuesday 06 August 19 06:02 BST (UK)
Hi KathleenMary
Thanks  … William did receive substantial property from Major Denis, most lost in government forced sales, there are two properties that still exist, one Doolough Lodge at Geesala currently restored and in extended family hands. William and his family members were mostly ignored as he was held as illegitimate by Anne's side of the family centred at Bingham castle near Binghamstown. I'll keep looking for the Geraghty sisters' background and confirmed information on weddings, births etc. My preliminary research hasn't found the sisters in Bellmullet but with your information I'll keep at it. Any info on William's birth may lead to finding the Geraghty clan.
Cheers til next time  … Bob
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: amac1210 on Sunday 01 September 19 21:26 BST (UK)
Hi Bob,

Noticed some of these later posts, all quite interesting. Never knew about an Edward Kelly who came to Belmullet with Denis, may be a distant connection. No way of knowing that right now though. Still no progress on finding out the fate of my Denis Bingham - or Denis Kelly. Possibly died in infancy. I have however found a photograph of Mary "Mariah" Kelly, who had that child with your Denis. She is ostensibly with another husband or partner, and it was taken in the 1950s. I spoke with relatives who met her and the husband, he was quite stand off-ish by most accounts, while she would take them in for tea. They lived in Fife before passing away. She came over around 1949, for the funeral of her sister Rose Shevlin, who died in October of that year. That's just some of what I've managed to ascertain from some of my relatives and from the records. Where do you think we could find a photo of Arthur Shane Bingham, or Denis Bingham? Would add to the records, and be interesting to see.

Cheers,

Anthony
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Friday 06 September 19 10:41 BST (UK)
Hi Almac
Attached is the only picture I have of Arthur Shaen Bingham, Denis was his son.
I haven't persued the Kelly link too far. I'm concentrating on Major Denis wife, grandmother of Arthur, a Geraghty I believe.
Till next time
Bob
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Friday 06 September 19 10:45 BST (UK)
Hi Amac
I did find a document on Denis Bingham Kelly's birth, witnessed by another Kelly, either older sister or mother.
I'll chase up a copy for you in the near future
Cheers
Bob
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: amac1210 on Sunday 08 September 19 14:17 BST (UK)
Hello Bob,

Thank-you so much for that photograph. He would have known my great-grand uncle Anthony Kelly personally, and Mary "Mariah" Kelly too. It's hard to say what that relationship would have been. I'll pass this on to some relatives for them to see. If you ever find a picture of his son Denis, please do pass that on also! If you like I will send a photograph of Mary Kelly along also. It was taken when she was about 50-60 years old though.

Best Wishes,

Anthony
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Royrodgers45 on Friday 27 September 19 22:15 BST (UK)
Hi Everyone. Very Interested to see this photo.
My grandmother worked in the house in Doolough Lodge at Geesala as a maid around 1900 or so. Story is that she became pregnant by Arthur's son Dennis. My grandfathers birth was registered as Dennis Bingham. He later changed it to the family name of Gaughan.
The account is verifiable as the census in 1901 shows a Dennis Bingham infant being raised in my Gaughan families household in Geesala,  later in the next census he has changed his name to Dennis Gaughan. so it seems there might be more than one illegitimate child belonging to Arthur's son Dennis.
Dennis Bingham went on to live in Scotland and New York, USA. before returning to Dublin Ireland. Where we live now.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Monday 30 September 19 12:37 BST (UK)
Wow, I had learnt of a Denis Bingham (Kelly) born to a servant Kelly's sister, now a Gaughan with another Denis Bingham infant. Denis seemed to have been a busy guy before he married Ursula in 1908.
I knew he looked after his sister Matilda's kids after she and husband died. A distant line still lives at the lodge and it looks beautiful in the pictures I received. I'll confirm the info and include it in my expanding family file. Thanks.
I hope to spend a few months in Ireland to retrace my roots in a year or so.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Royrodgers45 on Monday 30 September 19 17:34 BST (UK)
Hi Bob. Here are the census entries for the area. you can see in the 1901 census a 3 year old Denis Bingham child   living in the Gaughan household. In the later census he is entered as a 14 year old Denis Gaughan.  My mother (his daughter) told me that he decided to change it back himself. You can see that it is the Same household. Hope this is of some assistance. we went down some years ago and met with a next door neighbor of my family who would have been alive when he was a child. she confirmed the story and told us that there were more than one illegitimate child in the area linked to the Bingham family.
My great grand mother left my grandfather behind and went to live in New York. My mother met her as a young child when she went to live there in the 1920's. The family stayed in New York for a number of years but eventual came back to live in Dublin.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Royrodgers45 on Monday 30 September 19 17:41 BST (UK)
Hi Bob just a note in relation to the above as it can be quite confusing. The original house No 46 was his Gaughan grandfathers house. When his mother moved to the states he was taken in by relatives in this second house no 33.
 
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Tuesday 01 October 19 13:08 BST (UK)
Thanks for the information and the Census, another piece of Bingham history to add to my growing archive, I may have to spend a lot more time in Ireland to fully appreciate my roots. I may have to go as a Smith to keep below the local radar LOL. Its interesting that Denis Bingham's marriage to Ursula in 1908 produced no offspring, may have run out of energy by then.   
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Tuesday 01 October 19 13:16 BST (UK)
Just another observation, was Denis a son to the daughter Annie, if so I note that her brother John must have taken him in as his own in the second census as I see no Annie.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Tuesday 01 October 19 13:19 BST (UK)
oops, of course she had gone to the states.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 01 October 19 15:34 BST (UK)
Hi Amac
I did find a document on Denis Bingham Kelly's birth, witnessed by another Kelly, either older sister or mother.
I'll chase up a copy for you in the near future
Cheers
Bob


Michael Bingham Kelly

http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ire/dublin/photos/tombstones/mt-jerome-65/target119.html


any relation??
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 02 October 19 09:04 BST (UK)


I think at this stage, with so much posted, that it would be easier for someone trying to help to keep their eye on the ball at a table-tennis final at the Olympics than trying to keep track on the Binghams via what has been posted in Deeds etc.


e.g You have Wm going to Oz in 1860 when Wm bro of Arthur in Deed is dead by 1859.

Same Wm or not??

From memory... I posted a Will for one of them and it goes to Denis.  plus something about Denis being 30 before he went to Mayo  plus some Deed about "Denis of Dublin" in late 1700 and I think something about him being in Militia abroad.

Then some Deed about Houstons, with referral to an earlier Deed.

At this stage is it possible to just line them up and post a basic tree with just names/dates in time line? 

Short and Sweet collated from what has been posted.



Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 02 October 19 09:18 BST (UK)



This probaly fits "somewhere"!

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSNJ-KXQW?i=169&cat=185720


Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 02 October 19 09:20 BST (UK)
Hi Hallmark
Have you access to the other parts of the memorial (Deed) above. I am keen to read the settlement and how it affected the two sons, William (younger) and Arthur (eldest).
I was wondering whether it may have caused a split and William's relocation to Australia.
Thank you in advance
Bob


Isn't Wm deceased by time of Deed??


Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 02 October 19 10:20 BST (UK)


The 1859 snippet posted mentions an earlier Deed of 1825

An 1826 Deed mentions an earlier one of 1822   :o
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJ7-3SGG-T?i=338&cat=185720


Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 02 October 19 10:33 BST (UK)



Do these Binghams in Dublin connect to your lot?


Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 02 October 19 10:36 BST (UK)


https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJW-JSZG-Z?i=304&cat=185720

Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 02 October 19 11:04 BST (UK)



This 1826 one ties the 3 Bingham brothers together (Denis, Henry in Dublin and Lord Lucan's lot) and also Harriet... with the Daly's being mentioned (think there was an earlier Daly/Bingham marriage), no mention of DeVichi (grrr)

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJW-VW8?i=294&cat=185720





Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 02 October 19 11:04 BST (UK)


,

Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 02 October 19 12:50 BST (UK)



Denis of Dublin.....with Kelly!

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJW-VT8?i=56&cat=185720

Same 'Kelly of Mayo'??  ?





Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Wednesday 02 October 19 14:34 BST (UK)

Only doodling while having a coffee..... not online all day looking  ;D 

_________________________________________


They certainly had a lot of townlands...what a list!!


The 1794 Deed refers to earlier one of 1752 from Walker to John Bingham then to Denis/Henry/Robert

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJW-P5YK?i=163


Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: amac1210 on Sunday 06 October 19 22:54 BST (UK)
Truly fascinating. I feel that it can't be coincidence Anthony Kelly worked in Doolough with Arthur Shaen Bingham, and Edward Kelly had connections to Major Denis Bingham. Perhaps a positive relationship, but I can't be sure how Edward might link in with Anthony. The absence of records makes it speculative - all I have is an elder Anthony Kelly (c.1838-1911) and his wife Annie Carey (c.1852-1935). They had big family, and Anthony was fifty odds when his last child was born - Rose Kelly (1889-1949). Young Anthony's wife Ellen O'Donnell died young, and he was left struggling. In the end Rose gave him a house with lottery winnings, and his people came over to Scotland too. On old Anthony and Annie's wedding, we have a woman named Rose Kelly as witness - perhaps Anthony's mother? Nothing more - for all I know Edward could have been a brother. It then implies a Roscommon origin - from these records you posted - and not a Mayo origin. That's really quite interesting for us. Hope more is unearthed here.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 07 October 19 09:25 BST (UK)


In Bingham's stuff it refers to his properties in Roscommon,  and from memory Galway and Leitrim.






Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 07 October 19 09:29 BST (UK)
Truly fascinating. I feel that it can't be coincidence Anthony Kelly worked in Doolough with Arthur Shaen Bingham, and Edward Kelly had connections to Major Denis Bingham. Perhaps a positive relationship, but I can't be sure how Edward might link in with Anthony. The absence of records makes it speculative - all I have is an elder Anthony Kelly (c.1838-1911) and his wife Annie Carey (c.1852-1935). They had big family, and Anthony was fifty odds when his last child was born - Rose Kelly (1889-1949). Young Anthony's wife Ellen O'Donnell died young, and he was left struggling. In the end Rose gave him a house with lottery winnings, and his people came over to Scotland too. On old Anthony and Annie's wedding, we have a woman named Rose Kelly as witness - perhaps Anthony's mother? Nothing more - for all I know Edward could have been a brother. It then implies a Roscommon origin - from these records you posted - and not a Mayo origin. That's really quite interesting for us. Hope more is unearthed here.


Wouldn't be surprised if there are Kelly to Kelly Deeds/Marriage Agreements or even Kelly to Bingham



Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 07 October 19 09:37 BST (UK)


Henry Bingham was certainly high up the ladder being one of His Majesties Privy Council in Ireland.


Didn't a Bingham marry a Vesci/De Vesci ??






Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 07 October 19 09:45 BST (UK)



Denis with Kelly in Galway! Wheeling and dealing the the Frenches and St Georges....

He was 30, of Dublin, when he went Binghamstown and had been in Army abroad as per previous stuff posted, so was he married before he went Binghamstown?



Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 07 October 19 09:55 BST (UK)


From what I can gather from snippets posted the Generations are


G.1  John

G.2 Henry of Mayo

G.3  Henry of Mayo and Killester,
      "Lord Lucan" Robert, 
       Denis.


but not certain.

and then to Denis in question.







 
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 07 October 19 09:59 BST (UK)


I got John to be the eldest from this....

But like I said it would be easier to keep an eye on a table tennis ball that trying to work out timeline for everything without even a basic tree being posted.

Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 07 October 19 10:01 BST (UK)


John


Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 07 October 19 10:12 BST (UK)


Often wondered where Arthur Shaen Bingham got his name from.


We know Binghams married Houstons.....  but Arthur Shane from Athlone leased something like 300 acres to these Houstons in 1700's, wouldn't be surprised if he was named after this Arthur Shane, must have a look to see who was Arthur Shane's wife ( a Houston?? )


Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 07 October 19 10:31 BST (UK)


Dillon mentioned here is same as one in Galway Deed with Bingham and Kelly


Most probably of Castle Dillon








Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 07 October 19 10:42 BST (UK)




Exemplifications of recovery concerning members of the Kelly family relating to lands in Cos. Galway and Roscommon, 1701-1804.   

Dublin: National Library of Ireland, D. 26,724-26,728

Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 07 October 19 10:45 BST (UK)


Pedigree of O'Kelly and Kelly with descent from Art Mac Con, father of Cormac Mac Art, Princes of Imaine, Chiefs of the name, of Gallach and Mullaghmore, of Aghrim, of Clogher, of Athleague, and Cargins and Castle Ruby in Co. Roscommon, of Fedane in Co. Galway and of Castlegar and Woodstock, Co. Mayo, A.D.195 -- 1841.

Dublin: National Library of Ireland, Genealogical Office: Ms.175, pp.12-24
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 07 October 19 10:46 BST (UK)



Pedigree of Denis O'Farrell (born O'Kelly) of Cambo, Co. Roscommon, of Clonlyon, Co. Galway, of Aghrane, Co. Galway and Sckryne, Co. Roscommon, c.1325 -- 1755.


 Dublin: National Library of Ireland, Genealogical Office: Ms.162, pp.98-100


Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 07 October 19 10:49 BST (UK)



Pedigree of O'Kelly of Gort and Killahan, Co. Roscommon, c.1600 -- c.1750.


Dublin: National Library of Ireland, Genealogical Office: Ms.165, p.400


Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 07 October 19 11:01 BST (UK)
From what I can gather from snippets posted the Generations are


G.1  John

G.2 Henry of Mayo

G.3  Henry of Mayo and Killester,
      "Lord Lucan" Robert,
       Denis of Bingham Castle.


but not certain.

and then to Denis in question who died in Dublin. as posted.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 07 October 19 11:08 BST (UK)
Hi Amac
I did find a document on Denis Bingham Kelly's birth, witnessed by another Kelly, either older sister or mother.
I'll chase up a copy for you in the near future
Cheers
Bob


Michael Bingham Kelly

http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ire/dublin/photos/tombstones/mt-jerome-65/target119.html


any relation??



??
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 07 October 19 11:16 BST (UK)



Report of the trial of an action for libel, had before Baron Sir Wm. Cusack Smith, Baronet, at nisi prius, in the Court of Exchequer, ... the 11th of December, 1833, wherein the Rev. J.P. Lyons, Parish Priest of Kilmore, Barony of Erris, and County Mayo, was plaintiff,
and Major Bingham, William Bingham, Esq. and Patrick Lavelle, were defendants.  Lyons was represented by Daniel O'Connell

Provenance:    In vol. stamped: O'Kelley Gift


JP 5657    Manuscripts Reading Room Special Access    Joly Collection


Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 07 October 19 11:18 BST (UK)



Deeds to lands in Kilmore, Co. Roscommon of the Ormsby and Bingham families, 1738-1892.


Belfast: Belfast Public Record Office, D. 896 (Contd.)


Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 07 October 19 11:23 BST (UK)



Letter from Captain Denis Bingham to Colonel Maurice Moore containing recollections of George Henry Moore, with covering letter from Louisa Lawley informing Colonel Moore that she has forwarded the letter from Bingham and that her husband Frank Lawley is ill,
1896 January 27 & February 10.

Main Creator:    Bingham, D. (Denis), 1829-1897


Envelope in Captain Denis Bingham's hand and addressed to: "Maurice G. Moore / Barracks Boyle / Co. Roscommon / Ireland".



Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 07 October 19 11:24 BST (UK)

Letter from Captain Denis Bingham to Colonel Maurice Moore
NLI Call Number:    MS 8,489/1/1 (Manuscripts Reading Room)
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 07 October 19 11:26 BST (UK)


 The marriages of the Bonapartes /
by Bingham, D. (Denis), 1829-1897
Published / Created: 1881.

https://archive.org/details/marriagesbonapa00binggoog/page/n14
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 07 October 19 11:27 BST (UK)



Communion prayers of Jane Lady Bingham (née Cuff), with a list of family obits, 17th c.

Dublin: Trinity College Library, Ms. 4460 (E.6.15)


Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 07 October 19 11:29 BST (UK)



Sir R. Bingham's letter concerning his march in Connaught 17th century copy.
Dublin: Trinity College Library, Ms. 734 (G. 4. 12): (Extract)


Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 07 October 19 11:31 BST (UK)



Request of Sir R. Bingham that his brother (John Bingham) be given leave to come to England and also his nephew Thomas Bingham who was vice-constable of Athlone 1598.

NLI MS_UR_010724
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 07 October 19 11:35 BST (UK)



Briefs in the Chancery case, 1870, of Daniel v. Bingham, relating to mortgage.

Dublin: Public Record Office, M. 3681 (a,b)


Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 07 October 19 12:06 BST (UK)


Often wondered where Arthur Shaen Bingham got his name from.


We know Binghams married Houstons.....  but Arthur Shane from Athlone leased something like 300 acres to these Houstons in 1700's, wouldn't be surprised if he was named after this Arthur Shane, must have a look to see who was Arthur Shane's wife ( a Houston?? )


Grrrrr 2001 acres....

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSNJ-B93J-3?i=381&cat=185720




Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: amac1210 on Monday 07 October 19 12:17 BST (UK)
Yes he descends from Sir. Arthur Shayn - the Tudor government created the Shayn Baronets in Ireland. This is just their way of saying that he was a descendant.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Monday 07 October 19 12:51 BST (UK)
Hi Guys … Tried to answer before … don't know what happened … try again
The Arthur Shaen does come from his GGG Grandfather when John Bingham married Frances Elizabeth Shaen in 1738 daughter of Sir Arthur Shaen (a very large landowner in Ireland at the time)
The Edward Kelly who accompanied Major Denis on his many trips to Elly Bay was a trusted foreman and apparently no relation to the Anthony Kelly servant at Doolough Lodge. Arthurs wife was a Maria Hanson Savage in 1854 however his father William married a Maria Houston in 1825.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Monday 07 October 19 12:56 BST (UK)
Again .. Thanks
My interest has moved to authenticate major Denis Bingham wife?
Recent communication suggests a Catherine "Kitty" Geraghty (an RC) with my William born prior to wedlock and Bingham Castle Anne born after wedlock. Catherine was sister to Bridget Geraghty who married Edward Kelly, Denis's foreman. My original focus was an Elizabeth Nash of Clookakilla but equally can't find proof.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 07 October 19 13:09 BST (UK)
Yes he descends from Sir. Arthur Shayn - the Tudor government created the Shayn Baronets in Ireland. This is just their way of saying that he was a descendant.

I know....are there Marriage agreements?  Wills?  Deeds?

Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 07 October 19 13:12 BST (UK)


Wouldn't be surprised if the Kelly/French mentioned here are part of the ones in Galway Deed


Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Monday 07 October 19 13:15 BST (UK)
Hi Hallmark,
Sorry but no so far, the event is hidden very well, a marriage below status and religion maybe.
You mentioned a Denis death in Dublin. Would that have been 1842, a duel maybe.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 07 October 19 13:20 BST (UK)


No, the one who died Bay View, Irishtown, Dublin posted a few days ago



Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 07 October 19 13:31 BST (UK)


Wouldn't be surprised if the Kelly/French mentioned here are part of the ones in Galway Deed


...and wouldn't be surprised in the least if they are part of this lot!

http://landedestates.nuigalway.ie/LandedEstates/jsp/estate-show.jsp?id=1226


Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Monday 07 October 19 13:35 BST (UK)
Hi Hallmark
Wow … the first two are too early and I don't recognise Tucker or Bermingham.
Bodkin married Denis's brother Henry in 1792, Yelverton married John, Denis's other brother in 1791
Burke has me thinking ?? Burke in 1794 … the date is close to the era … could that be a marriage to Denis, the writing is difficult to read, those it say his first name .. and does it read late remaining son of the late Henry Bingham of Newbrook.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 07 October 19 13:40 BST (UK)


All very major players... they wouldn't have married a pencil-sharpener named Kelly!


Kelly had Status!


Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 07 October 19 13:43 BST (UK)


Yelverton

Lord Chief Baron of the Exchequer!!
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 07 October 19 13:44 BST (UK)



Parker

Rear Admiral
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Monday 07 October 19 13:53 BST (UK)
I noticed that John was an MP and his daughters also married the Yelverton family members
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Monday 07 October 19 13:54 BST (UK)
and daughter Anne to French St George
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Monday 07 October 19 13:59 BST (UK)
On the notices you showed us, is the first listed Surname the male, I noticed Burke first and Bingham second, could that be one of Henry's daughters to Burke .. and not my Denis … just thinking aloud
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 07 October 19 13:59 BST (UK)


http://landedestates.ie/LandedEstates/jsp/property-show.jsp?id=608 
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 07 October 19 14:02 BST (UK)
Yes he descends from Sir. Arthur Shayn - the Tudor government created the Shayn Baronets in Ireland. This is just their way of saying that he was a descendant.


Sir James Shaen, Surveyor General of Ireland, left his estates to his son Sir Arthur Shaen, who had 2 daughters and heiresses. One daughter, Frances, married Sir John Bingham of Newbrook, county Mayo in 1738 and the other daughter, Susannah, married Henry Boyle Carter of Castle Martin, county Kildare in 1750.

http://landedestates.ie/LandedEstates/jsp/family-show.jsp?id=436
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 07 October 19 14:09 BST (UK)
Hi Hallmark
Wow … the first two are too early and I don't recognise Tucker or Bermingham.
Bodkin married Denis's brother Henry in 1792, Yelverton married John, Denis's other brother in 1791
Burke has me thinking ?? Burke in 1794 … the date is close to the era … could that be a marriage to Denis, the writing is difficult to read, those it say his first name .. and does it read late remaining son of the late Henry Bingham of Newbrook.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Monday 07 October 19 14:22 BST (UK)
Found the Bermingham to Bingham in 1745. On the Earl of Lucan Line, Sir John's daughter Jane to Thomas an MP, her brother Charles's daughter Lavina  went on to marry the first Earl of Spencer and Diana's Spencer's ancestor.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 07 October 19 14:27 BST (UK)
Found the Bermingham to Bingham in 1745. On the Earl of Lucan Line, Sir John's daughter Jane to Thomas an MP, her brother Charles's daughter Lavina  went on to marry the first Earl of Spencer and Diana's Spencer's ancestor.


Indeed they do.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Monday 07 October 19 14:28 BST (UK)
Thanks … anyone of three of Henry's daughters, probably Anne … alias not my Denis.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 07 October 19 14:31 BST (UK)



and you'll find the St Georges here along with French..... so Kelly wasn't a commoner either!!
http://landedestates.ie/LandedEstates/jsp/family-list.jsp?letter=S

(The first Kelly!)


Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 07 October 19 14:52 BST (UK)
14th dragoons to 5th

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/12996/page/270
.
.

Well the 14th Dragoons got around, and Denis was about 23 when he changed to 5th, so where were they??
He was about 30 when he went to Erris!
.
.

m
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 07 October 19 14:54 BST (UK)
Hi Hallmark ... My apologies, I do appreciate your valued help ... by chance I had read a death notice in a Dublin Newspaper for William .. similar to the snippet you mentioned ... it also stated Bayview 29 Jan 1848 died at aged 50yrs of maliignant fever and an ex magistrate ... it seemed to fit :)


Did you ever find out which Bayview??


Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Monday 07 October 19 14:57 BST (UK)
Well that was like a who's who in the zoo …
Just a quicky to outline the part of the tree:
G1 Brothers John (Lord Clanmorris of Newbrook), Henry and my Major Denis (1760ish to 1842)
G2 Henry (1743-1789) married to Letitia Daly in 1761.
G3 John married Frances Elizabeth Shaen in 1738 (He had seven sisters and one brother Henry)
G4 Rt Hon Henry married Anne Vesey in 1726 (Lord Justice of Ireland) two sisters two brothers
G5 Major Charles married Marie Blennerhassatt in 1690
G6 John (MP for Mayo and Castlebar)
G7 Sir George (1540-15990 married Cicely Martin (Military Governor of Sligo) Brother to Sir Richard (Marshal of Ireland)
G8 Sir Robert (died 1561) married to Alice Coker
That's more than enough to send one to sleep … Thanks
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Monday 07 October 19 14:59 BST (UK)
Hi Hallmark
Bayview is in mayo near Elly Bay … nothing is left of the house … William's wife lived the later part of her life with Arthur at Doolough Lodge not far away.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 07 October 19 15:04 BST (UK)


Not the Bayview in Dublin so, where Denis died.


Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 07 October 19 15:08 BST (UK)
Thanks … anyone of three of Henry's daughters, probably Anne … alias not my Denis.


Not Anne!   She married a St George
and it wouldn't surprise me if that is her St George hubby wheeling and dealing in the Galway Deed posted today, with Kelly and French!


Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Monday 07 October 19 15:16 BST (UK)
I think he must have got married between 1794 and 1799 in or around Binghamstown Mayo. I think the death of his father Henry in 1789 sparked the spending and building component of his life and convinced him to leave the army as a Captain in the local Yewman Corps, retired as a Major. I think this part of his life hinged between Newbrook and Binghamstown.
Most Bingham weddings tend to be held in Dublin at St Peter's and funerals tend to be held in Belmullet at the old Protestant Cemetery .. Cross?? overlooking the ocean. I haven't had much luck with his daughter Anne's birth, my William's birth, Denis's marriage … it seems that these facts were deliberately hidden?? from the family??
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Monday 07 October 19 15:19 BST (UK)
John's daughter Anne married a St George, I have nothing on Henry's Anne's marriage … so many Annes, Johns and Henrys hey
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Monday 07 October 19 15:23 BST (UK)
With Denis the only statements that I read in the Bingham Memoirs are his death due to a shooting accident in 1842 at age 70, no funeral notice, no location of the accident Zip Nothing
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 07 October 19 15:33 BST (UK)
John's daughter Anne married a St George, I have nothing on Henry's Anne's marriage … so many Annes, Johns and Henrys hey


Must be 2 Annes marrying a St George so. In Henry's 1789 Will he left £2500 to his eldest daughter Anne St George (since deceased)
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Monday 07 October 19 15:42 BST (UK)
Recalling previous threads, in 1794 Denis Bingham was a captain in a militia in Mayo with 350 personnel.
I don't think he was in Germany and may have returned after Holland in 1794… that's if he actually went there for the full duration with the 14th or at all, above information puts him as a Lt with the 5th in 1788 after having been in the 14th previously.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 07 October 19 16:03 BST (UK)
John's daughter Anne married a St George, I have nothing on Henry's Anne's marriage … so many Annes, Johns and Henrys hey

In reply#73 you say...

Henry married about same time 29 Oct 1761 to Letitia Daly ... therefore could have had the three sons John, Henry and Denis over the following five yearsish .. oops there were also about six daughters.... so a Dublin based family .... one of the daughters Anne married Chrisopher St George in 1778 .......


So were there two??

Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: amac1210 on Monday 07 October 19 16:10 BST (UK)
Firstly, no idea about Michael Bingham Kelly - that link doesn't work that you sent. What dates are there for him?

Secondly, I am not sure of Anthony Kelly's origins. Given these dates it is possible Edward was his grandfather, or a great-uncle, the records simply don't help us due to lack of documentation apparently. There aren't an enormous amount of Kellys either, so that going back a few hundred years a common ancestry is likely. I read an old Belmullet history book that confirms the O'Kelly Clan arrived from Roscommon and Galway into Belmullet. They previously held lands in Roscommon and Galway since the Middle Ages - and fought in the 15th century against the O'Donnell family of Donegal, in alliance with Mayo Burkes.

Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 07 October 19 16:15 BST (UK)


Indeed they did!

Well connected, not commoners.


Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: amac1210 on Monday 07 October 19 16:43 BST (UK)
Well saying that many of them ended up farmers, who struggled for a living! Fortunes change and not all of them were well off. It is frustrating because I don't think I'm going to solve Anthony's parentage, his marriage isn't recorded civally, and the Church record doesn't name parents. Not straightforward. Will leave it here for now, but this is very interesting material.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 07 October 19 17:59 BST (UK)


Talk about being well connected.... French, Ussher, St Lawrence


Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 07 October 19 18:09 BST (UK)


m
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Monday 07 October 19 18:20 BST (UK)
Well saying that many of them ended up farmers, who struggled for a living! Fortunes change and not all of them were well off. It is frustrating because I don't think I'm going to solve Anthony's parentage, his marriage isn't recorded civally, and the Church record doesn't name parents. Not straightforward. Will leave it here for now, but this is very interesting material.


No problem.  Was going to post the Kellys on the French/Bingham Pedigree.

They even go to a family in Caledon, Co. Tyrone I was looking for..... ;D  Will chase these up tomorrow. 

Time for a coffee in Grafton St now... then a pint of two of the Black stuff at train station.  ;D


Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Tuesday 08 October 19 06:41 BST (UK)
Hi Hallmark .. my mistake .. I had peerage give Christopher French St George to Anne but took it as John's daughter, have corrected my records now, my Denis's Anne married Henry's Robert Augustus (1st cousin) to maintain Bingham lineage at Bingham's Castle, shame he hadn't kept the lineage with my William.
Thanks … Thomas and Brown in Grafton Street Dublin was where my Robert John became a draper, probably near your coffee shop.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Tuesday 08 October 19 06:45 BST (UK)
Many Binghams Marriages and Baptisms at St Peter's Dublin and funerals for my side at Protestant Church and graveyard … maybe old Cross with illegible headstones. Can't find Denis or William in any place.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 08 October 19 07:48 BST (UK)


So when you visit Mayo don't tell people you are researching Binghams.... tell them you're researching your Kellys and Gerathys   ;D

No interest whatsoever in "any of that Bingham lot"

It can be amazing what local people will tell you once they know you're not a fan of the Binghams! Get 2 or 3 locals in a pub telling you how bad they were and just leave them to it 

Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 08 October 19 08:33 BST (UK)
Hi Amac
I did find a document on Denis Bingham Kelly's birth, witnessed by another Kelly, either older sister or mother.
I'll chase up a copy for you in the near future
Cheers
Bob



Yvonne Russell owns the copyright so am only posting part thereof!

Am sure Yvonne will not have a problem with this as they are photographed to help people researching family.




Michael Bingham Kelly

http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ire/dublin/photos/tombstones/mt-jerome-65/target119.html


any relation??
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 08 October 19 09:40 BST (UK)

As I can't really be bothered trying to keep track of who is who in these generations anymore he's a "Nephew of Lord Clanmorris", whatever his name was around 1840's.



Richard Carey  MD of Weston, Newtownbarry (reverted to it's old name of Bunclody in 1952,
it was renamed Newtownbarry by James Barry Sheriff of Dublin 1577) married Elizabeth Browne
at Gorey on 16 Nov 1841.  She was the youngest daughter of the Rev Peter Browne, Dean of
Ferns.  It was a double wedding as her sister Catherine married Michael Bingham Kelly, a
nephew of Lord Clanmorris at the same time and place.

With this I'll sign off on the Binghams!

Good hunting.


Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 08 October 19 10:05 BST (UK)



Sincere apologies to Karen Poff and June Bow for omitting that the above is attributed to both of you!




Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Tuesday 08 October 19 12:00 BST (UK)
Hi Hallmark
Thanks for your time and effort … Good advice .. I was going to go to Mayo as a Smith but Kelly or Geraghty is a better cover.. again thanks heaps
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hallmark on Tuesday 08 October 19 12:17 BST (UK)


No problem.. you might as well have these before I delete them, no idea of if or where they might fit and not going to do my head in trying.



 Bingham, Henry Herbert Shaen, b. 22nd February, 1881, son of H.H. S Bingham/Helen Little,  ward of J. V. Stevenson, D.I., 4 Ravenhill Terrace, Belfast.  Served through the Boer War in Ulster Yeomanry.  South African Medal, 4 Bars.  Irish Swimming Championship (100 and 200 yards), 1901; holder of Ulster Records for 100 and 200 yards; appointed J.P. for Co. Mayo, 1905.  High Sheriff for Co. Mayo, 1919.  Landowner.  Address  Guildford, Surrey.

Went to same college as his brother, same address as  Sheelagh Mary Geraldine Shaen-Bingham who married James Hewat in 1934


I know no more tan what is posted.

You have the Bingham Kelly g/stone and his death cert shows his address in Dublin Alicia might be his daughter. He is someone's nephew so probably one of your lot.

See who registered Catherine's death etc etc


Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: amac1210 on Wednesday 09 October 19 08:46 BST (UK)
Bob, enjoy the trip to Belmullet and Mayo. I hope to go some point these next few years, determined to see it for myself. Even for non-Binghams nerves can be sensitive - so much trauma from early 20th century in some ways. Castlebar also a HQ in a sense for some folk involved in the later Troubles. This is thereby recent history also. Honestly, my main interest would be to get a feeling for the Gaelic culture pre-existing all the sad violence. Belmullet has a very ancient history, going into the early Middle Ages.

Thanks for the details Hallmark, not sure at all who Michael Bingham Kelly is but it is interesting to see the marriage that must have occurred between the families there. I note that Anthony Kelly was Catholic, on 1911 census, which makes direct connections less likely perhaps.

I made some little progress earlier - there is no civil record for his 1869 marriage to Annie Carey but we do have a Church record. Parents not named, but a witness named Rose Kelly is. Anthony and Annie had a daughter Rose in 1889. I therefore think Rose must be a sister or the mother of Anthony. However, I can't locate any obvious civil records. I see a Rose who died aged 90 in 1932 but she was only Kelly by marriage and husband isn't named meaning I can't check out connection further with any ease. Wonder if the Rose on the Church record lived outside Belmullet?

Cheers,

Tony

Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: amac1210 on Friday 11 October 19 13:47 BST (UK)
Hallmark, I did some digging there. The eldest son of Anthony and Annie Kelly was Daniel Kelly (1870-1948). Assuming this name carried through the paternal side - no sign of it on maternal side yet - I searched Daniel Kelly for Belmullet. Find a marriage to Mary Cosgrove in 1881 (record listed as 1882 online though) and he'd be only 10 years younger than Anthony roughly. Father deceased and listed as Michael Kelly, Shop-Keeper. I also noted Rose Kelly as witness on Mary Carey and Michael Ruddy's 1875 marriage - Mary Carey was Annie Kelly's sister. Assuming she then connects to Anthony Kelly, she would possibly be a sister-in-law. Indeed, her husband is shown as Michael Kelly, born c.1845. They themselves also had son Anthony.

Wrapping this up I suspect Daniel, Michael and Anthony were sons of this Shop-Keeper named Michael Kelly. Do you know how I could dig deeper here? He may have owned land or suchlike. Edward Kelly also shows up as a son of Michael Kelly - here a farmer - in 1868 marriage. Not sure if this could be same Michael.


This remains speculative to an extent of course!
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: amac1210 on Friday 11 October 19 13:51 BST (UK)
Saying that there is also a few Daniel Kellys in Ballina. And we have Patrick Kelly as father to one who could be a brother of my Anthony. Patrick was incidentally the second son to Anthony and Annie. It seems very tricky to work on names alone here.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Kathleenmary on Wednesday 20 January 21 04:29 GMT (UK)
Hi Bob

Its been a few years since we chatted, I forgot about all this for a bit but it all came up again today with verification from Ancestry.com that Katherine Geraghty was the wife of Major Denis Bingham..but you probably know that already..William does also appear as one of the children born in 1794...Katherine was my ancestor's sister in law, but they were poor Catholics so I can't find any further info about them..Did you go to Belmullet? the thread has gotten very interesting.
Cheers
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Wednesday 20 January 21 05:21 GMT (UK)
Hi Kathleen
Great to hear from you again.
In response, we are not traveling for the foreseeable future due to the pandemic however I have conversed with a Bingham in Binghamstown who mentioned William and Anne to be born to Maj Denis cook but name unknown ... he also confirmed graves for William wife (my Great great Grandmother) and his daughter-in-law (my Great Grandmother) at Bingham vault at the Old Cross Cemetery.
I recently found William's son (Willy) family in Melbourne arriving 1860 from Ireland and have swapped info and pics with his relatives, they were pleased to make contact although my Grandfather Robert, his nephew arrived later in 1912.
I read Ancestry on "Kitty" but found no docs confirming marriage to Maj Denis or birth of William and Anne, I dearly would love to find something and also find Maj Denis and/or William gravesites.
I have penciled in Kitty and William birth date but need more to turn the info into ink
Please keep safe and maybe one day our paths will cross .. regards Bob
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Connaught on Wednesday 20 January 21 15:25 GMT (UK)
I assume that the tower at the end of the building was a private chapel. Do we know anything further about that or if there were burials, or would be allowed to bury privately within the chapel?
I can find nothing about the build or interior of the castle, and have no family notes about it although one or two older (now deceased!!) relatives visited early in the 1900's
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Lola5 on Wednesday 20 January 21 22:07 GMT (UK)
I have spent all my spare time today reading this thread.
.
Fascinating stuff and how generously the researchers have given their time.
How do the find all this info I wonder?

Robert , You will understand the feelings of the people if you were to read Charles Egan's books before you go to Ireland.
He tells of Mayo in 1847 and the famine. And why landowners such as Lord Lucan  and Buuerke were hated..
The three books are a work of fiction but ring true..

I am also reading Somerville,s book...Lettrers from Ireland during the Famine of 1847.. Again this sheds light on the state of Ireland then and why the Protestant landlords were feared by Catholic Landlords.
And the irish hatred of the British  government who did little or nothing to help the starving Irish.

Family history is not just about collecting names .It is about people and the circumstances they lived in and those places they called home..


 
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Kathleenmary on Saturday 23 January 21 04:30 GMT (UK)
Hi Bob from Queensland. Im wondering if Kitty and Major Denis were actually even married..given he was a Protestant from the ascendant family, and Kitty the daughter of a Catholic peasant. Im also wondering if the sisters were actually from Newbrook.

Edward Kelly married Bridget Geraghty in 1775, she was born in 1757. Kitty in 1860.

Bridget had her first child in 1776..where as Kitty was much older when she had her children.
William not born until 1794.

Edward was working for Major Denis as his manager before they moved to Erris, and thats why I think the girls were born at Newbrook. What do you think?




Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Saturday 23 January 21 11:16 GMT (UK)
Hi Kathleen
Some compelling information, maybe I should move my search to the Newbrook to see if I can confirm the two sisters. Thanks for Kitty birth year, If Edward was Maj Denis manager it could stand to reason his sister -in-law may have found employment with Maj Denis ... maybe the cook and lover.
The different religions would certainly not go down too well at that time. Did you find anything on Williams actual birth as it may have been before he completed Bingham Castle ... wonder where they resided in 1794.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Saturday 23 January 21 11:41 GMT (UK)
Hi Kathleen
Just a thought ... Kitty may have baptised William in 1794 back near Newbrook... I'll check some church records?? Also I had assumed his birth as 1790?
Thanks mate
Bob
PS . Connaught...John ...I could only confirm the two graves inside the Old Cross Chapel in a private vault but now only ruins, also Bingham Castle did have a chapel on one end of the structure called Chapel of Ease where I believe his father Henry was buried 1789 .. only foundation ruins today ... no idea whether re-intered somewhere else??
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Saturday 23 January 21 12:02 GMT (UK)
Hi Lola .. Yes you are completely right .. family roots are not about just collecting names ... the population was desimated during the time .. in fact from the first famines in the early 1700s right through to late 1800s.
Of the third who emigrated lives were lost and many transformed .. its interesting that some 55 million of us Irish decendants worldwide owe our existance to sad events so long ago.
During my quest I have read numerous books and testimonies from the time and have tried to understand why the massive rise in population in western Ireland, the one staple diet, why other parts of Ireland were not hit as hard during the famine, class distinction, the political and religious upheavals ... I may never fully understand the human race but I can only try to treat others as I would like to treated ... again thank you Bob from Down-Under
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Kathleenmary on Saturday 23 January 21 23:10 GMT (UK)
Hi Bob

I got Kitty's Birthdate, 1760, from Ancestry..but my record has it as 1768 with Bingham born 1765.

My Documents say that Bingham and Edward Kelly were about the same age, but this cannot be so...my document states that Kelly was born around 1745/50 which makes sense given the age of his children.

Like everything else in this crooked tale its hard to know anything for sure..

Given that Bingham's father died in 1789 and the Major inherited the estates it makes sense that the two moved from South Mayo to the West in around 1790..but may well have been doing stuff there before that.

Its possible that Edward Kelly worked for Bingham's father I suppose, as he appears to be trusted to manage things. They must have traveled around a fair bit as the distances between South and West Mayo were not huge...Castlebar may also be a relevant place to search for the sisters..although Kitty may well have been airbrushed out of the Bingham history I suspect.

Major Denis was an enterprising chap and attempted to set up  a business in herring fishing, he built a large factory and store and brought over Coopers from Aberdeen including Alexander McCoy.
McCoy had six sons and one daughter, Mary, who married Edward Kelly's 3rd son, another Edward Kelly, and is a great great etc somebody to me.

Apparently the Herring business never really got off the ground..

Here is what my Great great Grandfather Henry Edward wrote about Bingham Castle in 1937...

" The Cosgrove government of the Irish Free State resumed the whole of the Bingham Estate, demolished the magnificent  Bingham Castle, cut up the estate into suitable areas for small farmers  and transferred into their..(its blank here)..the hardy islanders of Inishkea."

Mind you this old fellow was long gone from Belmullet by 1922 having emigrated in 1876 to Sydney. Most of his family including his aging parents and his brothers followed him out here. The old boy never stopped longing for Erris and Elly Bay and continued to write for the Irish times until 1937 when he died. At that time old Henry Edward said there were no Kellys and no Binghams left in Belmullet...but we know thats not quite true.

Please let me know if you find anything on Kitty!






Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: amac1210 on Tuesday 26 January 21 02:08 GMT (UK)
Hi Kathleenmary + everyone,

You say Edward may have been born as far back as c.1745-1750. That might make the John Kelly I mentioned two generations below him, instead of only one. To re-iterate, John Kelly was father of one Catherine Kelly who married one James Bingham in 1848, Dublin. James ends up in Castlebar, and died in 1890. Catherine apparently died in 1892, in the same location, but using the surname Kelly. James' father is only listed as Robert Bingham (Gardiner). No Baptism available. I wonder if he could be a son of Robert Augustus Bingham? The fact he goes out to Mayo shows he knew the Binghams over there in any case. Possibly a half-brother of Denis who married Elizabeth Nash?

Any idea on where Edward Kelly originated otherwise? Names for his parents? It'd be interesting to identify his origins, and whether he was a Mayo man or otherwise. I wonder why the Binghams moved from Dublin out to Mayo themselves? I think I read they had longstanding historical connections to the County.

As to the religious divide mentioned here, I'm not sure it would have been a problem in private life. I've heard of conversions for convenience's sake, when love is involved. They could have had a private Protestant wedding, unrecorded. Or they could have been common-law man and wife? Anything on the Geraghty sisters' parents? We might wonder if they were friendly with the Major and Edward? Or if Edward introduced the Major to his own wife's sister, as a suitable match? Were there perhaps other siblings to the Geraghtys and who did they marry? That could be another whole line of research, and show up more connections.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Tuesday 26 January 21 09:51 GMT (UK)
Hi Kathleen and Amac
Sorry haven't chased the Kelly line too far, more interested in "Kitty", Edward Kelly's sister-in-law, my Binghams as Landlords were from Newbrook/ Castlebar area moving into Mayo late 1789/90, I'm seeking Geraughty family around Newbrook, Castlebar etc without much success. Maj Denis's brother Henry's son Robert Augustus married his daughter Anne 1815 and were based in Bingham Castle. Robert did have a brother John Charles, a reverend and a son Denis in 1818 who married Nash in 1846 but as far as I know there was no John, a gardener from Dublin. I don't think the Binghams of Dublin you mentioned fit into any of my research, so far.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: amac1210 on Tuesday 26 January 21 10:34 GMT (UK)
Hi again,

My speculation was that James might have been illegitimate son of Robert Augustus. Not inconceivable. Otherwise, we'd have to find another Robert Bingham - who would have been in some contact with the Mayo Binghams, since James Bingham moves to Castlebar around the same time as Denis who married Elizabeth Nash. Half-brothers? Cousins? Like I said, there isn't any Baptism record, and it makes the line of inquiry more difficult. All I can say is that there are no other Robert Binghams who I can find online. You'll probably know more though!

I wonder if there is a death record for Kitty? If she lived to old age there might be. Saying that, even in the 20th century, many individuals just don't get recorded. Record keeping seems to have been quite abysmal. I did notice Geraghty connections to John Togher - one of Arthur's servants in 1911. Coincidence? These connections are on John Togher's maternal family, but it's impossible to say if these Geraghtys were descendants of Kitty's parents.

Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: amac1210 on Tuesday 26 January 21 14:32 GMT (UK)
Some information I found online:

James Kelly = Letitia French St. George (dau. of Anne Bingham and Christopher St. George)

Son born to them was Henry Michael Bingham Kelly (c.1800-1880) whose gravestone was uploaded earlier in the discussion. He married Catherine Browne. He was therefore (great)-nephew of 1st Baron Clanmorris, as the record stipulates regarding his marriage.

James Kelly, son of Denis Kelly = Anne Armstrong
Denis Kelly,  son of John O'Kelly Farrell = Honora Burke (dau. of 9th Earl of Clanricarde)

No need to go farther back in time. All I'll say is that James Kelly who married Letitia French St. George, is said to have had "several siblings". We know the names of a couple immediately: the Rev. Andrew Armstrong Kelly and John Kelly. Denis was apparently born c.1720 and died 1794. Given the dates for Edward Kelly - the Major's brother-in-law - I strongly suspect he was another child of Denis Kelly, or a close relation of some kind. This solves the issue of the barrier between them over religion and class. In actual fact, this Kelly family was connected to the aristocracy, and would have known the Binghams.

As to John Kelly - father-in-law of James Bingham - and Anthony Kelly in Belmullet; these connections remain unconfirmed. How they might (or might not) fit in to this larger Kelly clan isn't clear. What we can say, though, is that these Kelly folk kicked about Mayo a lot. James Kelly who was married to Letitia died in Co. Mayo. Others were in Co. Galway.

That's all I can find for now, and it seems clearer how the characters connect. Hope this is of interest to you!

Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Wednesday 27 January 21 07:19 GMT (UK)
Hi Amac
I'll try the contact Togher as part of my searching.
I only have Anne marrying Christopher St George in 1778 and living in Tyrone House near Galway, now a ruin, but I have nothing on their children and marriages. Your information of marriage to a James Kelly definately opens a line of Kellys. There are heaps and heaps of Kellys throughout west Ireland, you certainly have a quest.. good luck PS Thanks for your info on my Denis's Kelly offspring
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: amac1210 on Wednesday 27 January 21 17:03 GMT (UK)
Hi Bob,

I tried to find the death record for Barbara Deane - living with your g-g-grandfather Arthur in 1901 - but nothing in the whole of Ireland shows up. Maybe the surname was written down wrong? She was 88 years old in 1901, so she must have died by 1911 or thereabouts. John Togher is listed as John Toher in the 1911 census. I also notice a girl named Bridget Sally in 1901, aged 18 years. Nothing at all on her that I can find afterwards! I now suspect she moved to Scotland, alongside so many others in Mayo. Must have a look there, when I get the time. In 1911, alongside John Togher, we have Rose Gaughan aged 23 years. Was she related to the family in which Denis Bingham had a son - Denis Gaughan? I tried finding out, and I can't identify whether this is the case or not.

As to the records for James Kelly and Letitia French St. George, all these are readily available: https://www.geni.com/people/James-Kelly-43/6000000014035018059. The link I attach does seem to have errors with the dates, however. I saw a post elsewhere that tells us the two children of Henry Michael Bingham Kelly were Louisa Gordon, and Charlotte. They have many descendants of their own now. I think what is clear is that the descendants of Henry Bingham and Letitia Daly were all connected. This is why I think Edward Kelly (born c.1745) is connected to James Kelly, and perhaps to Catherine Kelly who married the mysterious James Bingham (c.1823-1890). The Geraghtys are the other lot who need investigating, but I don't see how we can go much further unless this John Togher's Geraghty family were the same. Indeed, without siblings for Kitty and Bridget, there will be nothing else to go on. Is there no information on Kitty's parents names?

The research is enjoyable in any case, but yes it is a big task to investigate. I find the same with my Barrett ancestors (on the other side of my ancestry) - they all connect somehow, but they are so numerous as to make the exact connections elusive. I did find a famous poet named Richard Barrett, possibly connected, who lived way back in the Rebellion of 1798. He was something of a local hero, and I believe he was friendly with the Major. When he began to support the Rebellion, that friendship dried up! His grave was marked very visibly until a few decades back, and now the sea has claimed it mostly, as it was on the coast. He is said to have been the "Last Bard" of Ireland - going back to the 1500s, we find that it was a professional occupation. https://www.duchas.ie/en/cbes/4428004/4367024/4465626

All the Best! Amac1210
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Wednesday 27 January 21 23:57 GMT (UK)
Hi Amac
James seemed to have a fairly close relationship with the St George household, noticed second wife a St George.
Have a safe 2021 mate, I'll plod on with the Geraghty clan, may get lucky and find "Kitty" the cook and lover for my Maj Denis one day.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: amac1210 on Thursday 28 January 21 14:17 GMT (UK)
Hi Bob,
Yes everyone seems to have been connected. I posted this before, on your other thread, but it might be a useful reminder:

"This might not be a huge help but I note the 1871 marriage of Henry Bingham, apparently son of Denis Bingham, to Barbara Connor.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1871/11336/8160681.pdf. Note the witnesses are Michael and Catherine Geraghty. We also see a Sarah Geraghty appearing on the marriage just above, between Anthony Doherty and Ellen Kilcoyne. You may know these names already but maybe they will help. Can't be too far removed from Katherine Geraghty"

If I'm right, and the Binghams were moving in the same circles, then it would seem likely Michael and Catherine Geraghty were related to Kitty. Given the lapse in time, they could well be two generations down from her, perhaps descended from a brother of hers? It's rather difficult to know anything else unless we have names for her relatives.

As to John Togher, he was son of Stephen Togher and Mary Geraghty. Mary Geraghty is listed as daughter of John Geraghty. Again, John would probably be two generations or so down from Kitty and Bridget. All very speculative.

I did find one further potential Geraghty relation of yours though - Richard Geraghty who died in Castlebar aged 95 years, in 1872. That puts his birth way back in 1777 - could easily a brother of Kitty and Bridget. His wife was named Nancy Geraghty.

Happy New Year to you also - it'll be good to see the back of this virus soon!
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: amac1210 on Thursday 28 January 21 16:41 GMT (UK)
I attach every useful Geraghty match from Belmullet. Maybe worth checking out the ones born before 1820 first off, especially those born in the 1700s. I'll leave it to you to have a look through these, they may help.

Michael Geraghty (same as the guy on Henry Bingham's marriage?) died in 1910, in the Workhouse, aged 92. Birth date c. 1818 - https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1910/05425/4516268.pdf.

Patrick Geraghty died in 1910, aged 82. Birth date c. 1828 - https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1910/05417/4513779.pdf. Informant was Michael Geraghty, his son.

Bridget Geraghty, "Spinster", died 1903, in Workhouse, aged 70. Birth date c. 1833 -
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1903/05651/4590695.pdf.

Pat Geraghty, died 1903, aged 74. Son John Geraghty informant. Birth date c. 1829 -
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1903/05659/4593183.pdf

Patt Geraghty, died 1900, in Workhouse, aged 76. Birth date c. 1824 -
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1900/05767/4629624.pdf

Frank Geraghty, died 1894, aged 70. Birth date c. 1824 -
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1894/05947/4689709.pdf

Martin Geraghty, died 1893, aged 50. Birth date c. 1843 -
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1893/05999/4706751.pdf

Hugh Geraghty, died 1892, aged 63. Birth date c. 1829 -
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1892/06016/4712559.pdf

Hugh Geraghty, died 1892, aged 76, in Workhouse. Birth date c. 1816 -
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1892/06016/4712560.pdf

Michael Geraghty, died 1892, aged 72, in Workhouse. Birth date c. 1820 - Same link as above.

John Geraghty, died 1891, aged 70. Birth date c. 1821 -
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1891/06060/4727547.pdf

Patrick Geraghty, died 1887, aged 90. Birth date c. 1797 -
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1887/06220/4779760.pdf

Larry Geraghty, died 1883, aged 85, in Workhouse. Birth date c. 1798 -
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1885/06294/4803750.pdf

Thomas Geraghty, died 1882, aged 44. This is a tragic case; he drowned "suffering from temporary insanity". Birth date c. 1838 -
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1882/06390/4834664.pdf

John Geraghty, died 1883, aged 45, in Workhouse. Birth date c. 1838 -
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1882/06390/4834664.pdf

Owen Geraghty, died 1881, aged 70, in Workhouse. Birth date c. 1811 -
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1881/06427/4846385.pdf

Michael Geraghty, died 1868, aged 50. Birth date c. 1818 - Record is unavailable

Laurence Geraghty, died 1875, aged 76. Birth date c. 1799 -
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1875/020629/7237718.pdf

Stephen Geraghty, died 1875, aged 70. Birth date c. 1805 -
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1875/020610/7231489.pdf

Michael Geraghty, died 1875, aged 95, in Workhouse. Birth date c. 1780 -
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1875/020629/7237720.pdf

Anthony Geraghty, died 1869, aged 73. Birth date c. 1796 - Record unavailable.

Thomas Geraghty, died 1879, aged 84, in Workhouse. Birth date c. 1795 -
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1879/06523/4879273.pdf

Charles Geraghty, died 1879, aged 57, in Workhouse. Birth date c. 1822 -
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1879/06513/4875567.pdf

Kitty Geraghty, died 1873, aged 35. Birth date c. 1838 -
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1873/020694/7260634.pdf

Anthony Geraghty, died 1871, aged 60. Birth date c. 1811 -
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1871/020762/7283693.pdf

Michael Geraghty, died 1871, aged 77. Birth date c. 1794 -
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1871/020780/7289416.pdf

Anthony Geraghty, died 1871, aged 89. Birth date c. 1782 -
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1871/020753/7280777.pdf

James Geraghty, died 1871, aged 60. Birth date c. 1811 -
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1871/020762/7283694.pdf

Daniel Gerrity, died 1870, aged 75. Birth date c. 1795 - No record available

James Gerraghty, died 1870, aged 40. Birth date c. 1830 - No record available

Stephen Geraghty, died 1872, aged 30. Birth date c. 1842 -
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1872/020714/7267854.pdf

I haven't done the Castlebar matches yet! Cheers.

Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Thursday 28 January 21 22:47 GMT (UK)
Thanks Amac
Your Geraghty information should fill a few weeks of exploration
Fingers crossed
Keep safe
Bob
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Kathleenmary on Friday 29 January 21 05:34 GMT (UK)
Hi Bob from Queensland and also amac1210.

Bob.
Bridget Geraghty was born in Leitrim Village County Mayo. Perhaps Kitty was born here also.
There appears to be some family connection with the Tollett Family, who originally came up with Sir Arthur Shaen in the early 1700's. Rev John Tollett, as part of the protestant settlement was given lands in perpetuity.

Some family history (I am following this up) says that Bridget and Katherine were nieces of the Viscount of Mayo, Lord Francis Tollett of Moyrahan, and cousins of Lord William Tollett of Mayo 1780-1849.

Perhaps these girls were not Catholic at all, and perhaps not as peasanty as I thought. This info comes from a newly discovered relative in New Zealand so I have to chase all this up.

The marriage of the Major and Kitty makes more sense to me now. I dont think she was his cook.

Hi Amac1210

My ancestor Edward Kelly born 1750 probably around Castlebar or perhaps Ballina did have some brothers but I dont know who they are because I dont know who Edward's parents are yet.

Edward and Bridget Geraghty had 3 sons and one daughter, Thomas, Henry, Edward and Barbara.

This son, Edward, had 9 kids 6 of whom went to America and were never heard of again. Three sons remained.

 Son Henry 1820 to 1900 had two sons and three daughters...Maybe your John is one of these ones? I dont know their names or the name of his wife...

His brother Martin went to the Indian Army and had no issue, his youngest brother Edward is the father of Henry Edward my GG Grandfather.

There have been no descendants of Edward Kelly and Bridget Geragthy in Belmullet since about 1880..all migrated to Australia and New Zealand.

There is only one called John in all this mob, that his John Henry Kelly my grandfather born Hornsby 1895. Everyone else seems to be called Henry or Edward or Edward Henry or Michael!










Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Kathleenmary on Friday 29 January 21 06:35 GMT (UK)
Hi Amac1210

Just had a look at the Denis Kelly line...these ones are protestant. The ancestors were all fiercely Catholic. Of my eight Great Aunts descended from Edward and Bridget six became nuns...in Sydney.

I also have a Barret ancestor Julia Barret m Michael Monaghan, the mother of Mary Monaghan who was the mother of all the nun Aunts..I dont know anything about the Barrets..More Research!!!
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: heywood on Friday 29 January 21 08:26 GMT (UK)
Hello everyone,
I follow this thread at times just for my own interest. I must have contributed at some point but it is so long and quite complicated. I am amazed at the information found.

Kathleenmary, you have written:
“ Bob. Bridget Geraghty was born in Leitrim Village County Mayo. Perhaps Kitty was born here also.”

There isn’t a Leitrim in Mayo. I notice this happens in some published trees. I am not sure if it is just Ancestry.There is a Mayo village in Leitrim -it might be worth checking the source.

A bit of a light hearted story here for you Bingham searchers. My husband has ancestry in that area and a couple of days ago, I thought I would check his DNA matches for any Binghams. I only usually check 4th or closer but did a wider search. He has a distant shared match who has the Henry (Harry) Bingham (son of Denis) and Barbara Conner marriage, 1871.
This is referred to by amac1210 a few posts ago.
That Henry is described as a labourer and his father, Denis, as a farmer.

I have found that area to be quite difficult to research due to the repetition of surnames, inter marriages etc but mine, due to available records, is not as early as your available ones with the Bingham family.

Good luck to you all.
Heywood
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Kathleenmary on Friday 29 January 21 09:25 GMT (UK)
Thanks Heyward, my mistake, you are correct.

Leitrim Village is about an hour away from Newbrook where Major Denis Bingham and my ancester Edward were before going up to Belmullet.

You are also correct about the difficulty researching this area and era.
Im lucky that folks wrote things down...
Thanks for your help.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: amac1210 on Friday 29 January 21 15:50 GMT (UK)
Hi Kathleenmary,

Very interesting information! Often Protestants and Catholics converted back and forth. One line of the Binghams, back in the early 18th century, were descendants of King Charles II and his mistress Lucy Walter. This is the line of Anne Vesey who married John Bingham, 5th Baronet. Bear in mind that Mary Crofts, from whom they descended, was sister to James Scott, Duke of Monmouth. He tried to take the Crown and was beheaded by his uncle James VII for treason. They were staunch Catholics and Jacobite Royalists in the time before 1688, anyway. Yet, as the years wore on, this allegiance inverted. The reality is that religion was less a matter of personal piety as it was of politics. It's often difficult to be sure of when the family "converted" one way or the other.

Some information on the Barretts, and this is only slightly relevant to the thread. They were the landowners in Mayo prior to the Binghams, and alongside the Burkes. As far as I can tell, these three families of Burke, Bingham and Barrett were the main landowners in Erris from the Middle Ages to the early modern era. It was in the reign of Queen Elizabeth I, if I'm not mistaken, that the last "Baron of Irrus" (Erris) was deposed in favour of the new Tudor gentry coming in. His name was Edmund Barrett - and Mayo records show the names Edmund and Richard were very common in even the early 20th century with this family. Good luck piecing together any lineage here though! Here again, the issue was religion, but more fundamentally allegiance to the Crown. The Barretts had first arrived apparently under King John Lackland, but by the 16th century they were less loyal to England. Another character worth researching is Grace O'Malley - the "Pirate Queen" - who hailed from Mayo and sat down to negotiations with Elizabeth I herself.

I think for John Kelly, we'd have to address who James Bingham was. Baptism records non-existent, and I'm at a loss as to who his father Robert Bingham represents, if not Robert Augustus. The key to it is that James is found in Dublin, marrying in 1848 to Catherine Kelly, before dying in Castlebar in 1890. Clearly he was in some contact with the wider family, or why would he end up in the same locality as them (?) - Henry Bingham and Letitia Daly's descendants. Same applies to Henry Bingham = Barbara Connor. It'd be interesting to piece together the different connections. There are indeed hundreds of Kellys and Geraghtys in Mayo, but perhaps there is a common thread to those that connected into this family? I suppose regarding Kitty and Bridget the next step is to exhaustively research the Tolletts!

Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: amac1210 on Friday 29 January 21 22:08 GMT (UK)
By the by, Richard Barrett - the Bard of Erris - was married to Nancy Tollett, daughter of Sean Tollett of Moyrane. How does Sean Tollett - a landowner himself - connect to Francis Tollett? This would connect the Bard to the Major's family, and explain how he was ingratiated with them.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Saturday 30 January 21 08:48 GMT (UK)
Thanks guys
I'll have to reorganise my searching, I had been reaching into Castlebar, the village of Leitrim sounds quite promising.
I'll have to sit down and digest the timely information you have posted. Honestly, I'm a touch lost, The Tollet connection is one that I hadn't enviseaged at all.
Again Thanks, Bob
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Purpeller on Thursday 09 September 21 11:57 BST (UK)
I've just read the entire 49 page thread because I am researching the Binghams for a client who descends from Louisa Bingham who married Villiers Bussy Fowler and is recorded in several newspaper articles as the third daughter of Major Bingham of Bingham's Castle. Louisa died in a shipwreck in Dorset in 1872 & various reports give her age as 72.

I wanted to note a few points. I've also looked at the Bingham memoirs online and Theresa Bingham-Daly's book. I'm a professional genealogist in Ireland.

There's obviously more than one Denis Bingham but only one known was Major (though no evidence he ever achieved that rank). A number of these posts and other sources on the internet seem to conflate multiple same-named men.

Burkes/Debretts etc give limited information on him and all only name one daughter called Anne who married her first cousin Robert Augustus Bingham in 1817. None of them name his wife nor say when he died or a DOB. Denis's parents were married in 1761 so it does seem likely he was born in that decade or early in the next. However, it would be surprising for him to live as late as 1842 in this time period. That's a long life for a military man who seems to get in lots of trouble. It also means that Louisa was born quite late in life for him.

I'm interested in the source of the information that shows Katherine Geraghty to be the mother of Anne and Louisa. I've seen on some Ancestry trees but they have no sources. I would expect Geraghty to be a Catholic surname in this time period and while mixed marriage did happen, certainly with younger sons, it is not terribly likely that Denis would have done so. Penal laws for Catholics still existed at this stage and it would not have been in his interests to associate with a Catholic woman.

Also, there is no place called Leitrim in Mayo. Leitrim is a separate county. See here: https://www.townlands.ie/search/?q=leitrim

Given the paucity of the records for the period, we're unlikely to find anything concrete to prove the mother, or where he is buried, but by far the most likely place was the churchyard where his father was buried, which was destroyed in the Civil War.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Purpeller on Sunday 12 September 21 12:26 BST (UK)
Just a note to add, I found the newspaper notice (Leitrim & Roscommon Gazette 19/3/1842) with Denis Bingham's death, so it seems he did live that late. Good for him!
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: amac1210 on Friday 17 September 21 14:31 BST (UK)
Earlier in the thread, Kathleenmary mentioned the following:

"Bridget Geraghty was born in Leitrim Village County Mayo. Perhaps Kitty was born here also.
There appears to be some family connection with the Tollett Family, who originally came up with Sir Arthur Shaen in the early 1700's. Rev John Tollett, as part of the protestant settlement was given lands in perpetuity.

Some family history (I am following this up) says that Bridget and Katherine were nieces of the Viscount of Mayo, Lord Francis Tollett of Moyrahan, and cousins of Lord William Tollett of Mayo 1780-1849."

That makes Katherine Geraghty the niece of Lord Francis Tollett. I don't know the exact source, but that wouldn't be impossible. Catholic and Protestant names aren't fixed in history. In any case, I thought the Tollett connection would be the next aspect to research thoroughly, then the specific details might reveal themselves. There might have been a village in Mayo named for Co. Leitrim - but it could be difficult to find. If it never existed, I suppose it would have to be Co. Leitrim, as you suggest? I've had trouble in the past trying to find townlands that no longer exist, in my research.

On the point about lifespan, it hasn't really changed, all that has changed is life expectancy. Rameses II (13th century BC) made it to 93 years, Eleanor of Aquitaine (12th century AD) made it to 82. If you had the means, and the general hygiene that entailed, you'd have a good shot at the 80s-90s. It's just that more of us are making it to that ceiling today. I noted that Major Bingham died in a "shooting accident", so he may well have made it farther had he taken it a bit more easy!
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Monday 20 September 21 11:36 BST (UK)
Hi guys, as yet I have found no further proof of William's mother, ie Major Denis wife or mistress. The Geraghty and Kelly paths I have been unable to confirm.
The major made the rank of Captain prior to building Binghamstown and was known locally as the Major taking on the next rank in retirement as was practice at the time.
Thank you for the information on Louise as I had only her birth date, none of the three girls seemed to list a mother on their birth records, only a father as Denis.
Denis and William have numerous quotes in court and newspapers as being father and illegitament son but I fail to understand Denis not listing a mother for any of the children.
I have no location for Major Denis gravesite, as the castle was but a ruin of foundation stones by the time of his death, also have found no evidence of his dying by shooting incident in any Dublin or other gazette. Also note that his father Henry's grave at the castle seemed to have disappeared along with the gravestone and its unique alteration.
Again thank you all for the information collected, some has made its way to my exhaustive Bingham family spreadsheet.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Kathleenmary on Sunday 10 October 21 05:37 BST (UK)
Hi

I have confirmed that Bridget and Katherine Geraghty's mother was Ellen Tollett.

Ellen's father was Lord William Tollett, Earl of Mayo. Ellen's brother (and Bridget and Catherine's Uncle) was Lord Frances Tollett. Their cousin John Tollett esq of Belmullet. Nothing is known of their father (Geraghty) Ellen's husband, at least not in my family.

anyone know anything about the Tolletts?

Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Sunday 24 October 21 03:00 BST (UK)
Hi Kathleenmary,
Thanks for your update, I am keen to pursue Ellen's daughter Kitty as wife/mistress of Maj Denis and or mother of my William.
I am spending all of November in Tassie exploring and a little research may fill a few evenings, did you find any birth documentation on Kitty or Bridget?
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: EBT on Wednesday 15 December 21 21:52 GMT (UK)
Hi Bob, My name is Elizabeth and I have just read quite a bit of your 49 pages as I was looking for information on Doolough Lodge. I placed an offer on it last week and it was accepted. What a small world. Best regards on your quest E
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hanes teulu on Thursday 16 December 21 18:19 GMT (UK)
Looks as if this is going to run and run.

There's a paper with the British Museum published the Jan- Apr period, 1849 about a £50,000 fund for Irish distress. It relates to the failure by some to pay rates (defaulters).

"Two quotations from the defaulters lists, furnished by the poor law inspector for Ballina,, will prove the accuracy of our assertions.
1. "Denis Bingham, Esq, Bingham's Town, £__* 17s 6 1/2d. Independently of this amount, there is an execution against Mr Bingham's body for the former rates due by him". He is the largest landowner in the Barony; the only magistrate in it; and has never paid any rates at all. Law procedings have been going on against him since 1847, which hitherto have proved futile, and the expense of which the government must eventually pay.
2. "Mrs William Bingham, Belmullet, £41 8s. Mrs Bingham has hardly the means of supporting herself. Some tenants, who possess stock, have lately taken farms from her. The collector will distrain the lands as soon as he can legally do so".

* - figure illegible
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: heywood on Thursday 16 December 21 19:03 GMT (UK)
Thanks guys
I'll have to reorganise my searching, I had been reaching into Castlebar, the village of Leitrim sounds quite promising.
I'll have to sit down and digest the timely information you have posted. Honestly, I'm a touch lost, The Tollet connection is one that I hadn't enviseaged at all.
Again Thanks, Bob

I posted earlier and read this all the time but I don’t think there is a ‘Leitrim’ in Mayo.
There is a ‘Mayo’ townland in County Leitrim and a Leitrim village in County Leitrim.
Many Ancestry trees show, Leitrim, Mayo and I wonder if that is just the way Ancestry organises it.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Thursday 16 December 21 23:22 GMT (UK)
Hi Elizabeth
Yes it is a small world
As you have already read, my ancestors stem from Doolough Lodge, the earliest my great great grandfather Arthur Shaen Bingham from the 1850's, I am unsure whether his father William owned it, a hunting lodge as part of the Bingham Estate in the early 1800s.
If you ever turn it into a B&B my wife and I would love to stay there when we eventually explore the area of Binghamstown and Bellmullet and family gravesites.
Should you require further information, I have compiled a complete family spreadsheet all the way up to Colm Mullet, partner of the last Bingham (nee) Breege Shaw (2011) to live at Doolough Lodge.
Well wishes for you and your family, Bob
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Friday 17 December 21 07:33 GMT (UK)

Quote
As you have already read, my ancestors stem from Doolough Lodge, the earliest my great great grandfather Arthur Shaen Bingham from the 1850's, I am unsure whether his father William owned it, a hunting lodge as part of the Bingham Estate in the early 1800s.

GeoHive National Townland and Historical Map Viewer (which is back up and running again) has these maps for Doolough Lodge.

After clicking 'Accept' and 'OK', click on the relevant Basemap Gallery map.

Historic 6" Last Edition B&W
https://arcg.is/1qWCeD
https://arcg.is/1u1vOn


KG

Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hanes teulu on Friday 17 December 21 09:30 GMT (UK)
Morning Advertiser, 25 Sep 1857
" ... Sir Peacock, Bart., who was on a visit with Captain Houston, of Doolough Lodge, County Mayo ..."

There's an 1852 reference to a Captain Houston taking a fishing lease for Doolough Lough.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hanes teulu on Friday 17 December 21 10:33 GMT (UK)
There is a very, very lengthy report of a court case involving fishing rights - Plunkett v Houston.

Mayo Constitution, 20 July 1852
" ... Captain Houston, who is a stranger in the country, but who has taken a considerable tract of land from Lord Sligo, and is a gentleman of great wealth and influence ... Gentlemen, Mr Plunkett has not the honour of Captain Houston's acquaintance, that gentleman has built or is building a house near his mountain farms where he feeds his flocks of sheep".

Mayo Constitution, 7 Nov 1854
" ... poison was placed by some miscreant in the dog kennels at Dhulough Lodge. It is impossible not to connect this malicious act with the unwonted success which has attended Captain Houston's sheep stealing ...".

Did Captain (W) Houston have Doo/Dunlough Lodge built?

   
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hanes teulu on Friday 17 December 21 11:00 GMT (UK)
There is a very, very lengthy report of a court case involving fishing rights - Plunkett v Houston.

Mayo Constitution, 20 July 1852
" ... Captain Houston, who is a stranger in the country, but who has taken a considerable tract of land from Lord Sligo, and is a gentleman of great wealth and influence ... Gentlemen, Mr Plunkett has not the honour of Captain Houston's acquaintance, that gentleman has built or is building a house near his mountain farms where he feeds his flocks of sheep".

Mayo Constitution, 7 Nov 1854
" ... poison was placed by some miscreant in the dog kennels at Dhulough Lodge. It is impossible not to connect this malicious act with the unwonted success which has attended Captain Houston's sheep stealing ...".

Did Captain (W) Houston have Doo/Dunlough Lodge built?

 

He had Dunlough House built 1854
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Friday 17 December 21 11:01 GMT (UK)
Hi Guys
Thank you, it is quite plausible that Captain Houston may have built the lodge because William Bingham, Arthur's father married a Maria Houston in 1825, although I believe William and Maria lived at Curraughboy not far from Binghamstown until his death from fever in 1848 after which Maria went to live at Doolough Lodge with her son Arthur who married later in 1854. The dates and era seem OK to match your observations, Again Thanks, Bob
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Saturday 18 December 21 03:37 GMT (UK)
Thanks KG
Your map reference is fantastic
Confirms Lodge to be built after 1830s
Also able to find original Bingham family home at Newbrook (now ruin) very near the village of Leitrim in Leitrim County on the Shannon River and source of Geraghty/Tollet family link. At present more questions than answers but getting closer. Thanks Guys, Bob
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: heywood on Saturday 18 December 21 08:40 GMT (UK)
Hello Bob,
I still wonder about the references to Leitrim and where they originate.
Re your last post about Newbrook.
There are several references to Newbrook, Mayo.
Here are a couple.
https://sites.rootsweb.com/~irlmayo2/lordclanmorris_mayolandlords.html

https://property.irishexaminer.com/holiday-homes/brochure/newbrook-house-ballyglass-mayo-ireland/4492783

https://www.buildingsofireland.ie/buildings-search/building/31310028/newbrook-house-bellanaloob-county-mayo-2

https://www.buildingsofireland.ie/buildings-search/building/31310029/newbrook-house-bellanaloob-county-mayo

Sorry, if this is more questions  :-\

Heywood
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Saturday 18 December 21 09:16 GMT (UK)
You are quite right, seems Newbrook house famous for the Lord Clanmorris side of the family is located north of hollymount, but there are several references to Newbrook and Newbrook House; I was interested in the Newbrook House on the 1830 map in the county of Newbrook a few miles north of Leitrim but the actual family residence for Maj Denis's father Henry Bingham is still confusing to say the least; yes more questions but thank you, all the merrier, have a great xmas guys
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: hanes teulu on Saturday 18 December 21 13:50 GMT (UK)
Hi guys, as yet I have found no further proof of William's mother, ie Major Denis wife or mistress. Denis and William have numerous quotes in court and newspapers as being father and illegitament son but I fail to understand Denis not listing a mother for any of the children.

Extract from the Mayo Constitution, 26 July 1853
Court Case - Savage v Bingham
" .....
Mr Walker addressed the court on behalf of his client**; at the conclusion of which address Mr Denis Bingham was produced - he proved the several documents connected with the case, his knowledge of the locality and his having received rent out of these lands, and have passed receipts for them.
To Mr Walker - The late Major Denis Bingham was never married; he was my grandfather; his daughter was married to my father, who was the son of the the second brother of Denis Bingham; my mother was daughter of the first son, and it is through him I claim my title as heir of Henry Bingham, the father of the Major; the Major was the third son."

** - Denis Bingham
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: CSK on Tuesday 21 December 21 20:20 GMT (UK)
Hello Bob and other Houston/Bingham researchers:
I understand that you are a descendant of Arthur Shaen Bingham, son of William Bingham and Maria Houston.  I am a descendant of Arthur Houston and Maria Crump.  I have DNA matches to descendants of Arthur Houston & Maria Crump's children, including:  George (1814-1905), James (?-1848), and Bridget.  I don’t have matches (yet) to some of their other children, including:  Maria who married your William Bingham.  Have you tested your DNA and have you uploaded it to any databases such as GEDMATCH or My Heritage?  I’d really enjoy testing your kit against mine and known Houston descendants to see if we are a match.  If others reading this thread have tested and are descendants of Binghams and Houstons I'd be interested to contact them too.

Thanks!
Colleen Kennedy
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Thursday 23 December 21 06:28 GMT (UK)
Hi Colleen
I have not as yet been DNA tested but will in the near future, my William's wife Maria apparently was the daughter of Arthur Houston of Drum but I never pursued the Houston line. Her other son Willy emigrated to Oz back in 1860s and I have had contact with the descendants in Melbourne and have copies of letters from Willy to his mother over ten years or so.
I will source a DNA test through My Heritage after we get through the usual rush at Xmas and we'll see what comes of it.
Hanes, it was of interest that the grandson a later Denis Bingham who resided at Bingham Castle and Binghamtown told the court that Major Denis never married, it would appear that his mother Anne may have been just as "legitimate" as my William?; Anyway have a great Xmas fellow researchers and again thanks for your input during these past few years. Bob from down under
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: CSK on Thursday 23 December 21 13:12 GMT (UK)
Hello Bob,
Thanks for your speedy and informative reply.  I sincerely appreciate it.

As it happens, I have copies of letters from Maria Houston Bingham to her son William and grandson Richard in Australia.  But, I don't have letters from William to his mother, Maria, that you mentioned.  Perhaps we should communicate via email after Christmas? 

I am so pleased that you are getting your DNA tested.  I'm on My Heritage as well as Ancestry and Gedmatch, and am an avid amateur genetic genealogist.  So, perhaps we'll uncover a connection that will help you with your Binghams and me with my Houstons.

Merry Christmas (and no rush in responding).

Best,
Colleen Kennedy
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Monday 27 December 21 12:04 GMT (UK)
Hi Colleen
I tried to send some photos but may have failed. One is of a memorial stone erected by your Maria Grump (widow) for Arthur Houston and two other (hard to read) Houston family members in the Cross Cemetery Bellmullet and an other Maria (Houston) Bingham in a buggy.
May have to send by email later. keep safe Bob
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: CSK on Monday 27 December 21 14:13 GMT (UK)
Hello Bob,
Thanks for your reply.  It would be wonderful if you could send both of those items to me via email - . I have heard about the monument but have never seen it.  Also, we can exchange the letters we both have to see if they are the same.  Thanks so much!  Colleen

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Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: CSK on Thursday 27 January 22 18:16 GMT (UK)
Hi,
I'm a bit late to the party, but I've been corresponding with Bob Bingham re: his Binghams, my Houstons, and other related families (possibly my Kennedys with Kelly and Geraghty).  I have also been in contact with a descendant of Dennis Bingham Gaughan.  I found the baptismal record for Dennis Bingham Gaughan, baptized 1 March 1898 with father listed as Denis Bingham and mother as Catherine Gaughan.  I'll PM you so I can send you a copy. 
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Pontchartrain53 on Friday 18 February 22 07:17 GMT (UK)
Hi Hallmark
Have you access to the other parts of the memorial (Deed) above. I am keen to read the settlement and how it affected the two sons, William (younger) and Arthur (eldest).
I was wondering whether it may have caused a split and William's relocation to Australia.
Thank you in advance
Bob

Hi Bob and everyone,
I have spent the last couple of hours reading this interesting thread, which I fell into while searching for information on my ancestor, Mary Shean, who married Henry Lowe Byrn/Byrnes/Burns at St. Peter's COI on Aungier St. in Dublin in September, 1816.
Associated families were Connor and Campbell. Henry Byrns was a lawyer or solicitor and lived across from St. Stephen's Green until Henry and Mary died rather young, and two sons and daughters emigrated to America.
Anyway, I found an article on Newspapers.com which I have not been able to snip, so I will transcribe it:
"IN THE LANDED (LATE INCUMBERED) ESTATES COURT, IRELAND. SALE on the 21st JUNE, 1860.
IN THE MATTER of the Estate of Arthur Shean Bingham,  Esq., Owner and Petitioner.
AUCTION,  in two lots  situate I the Barony of Erris. and County of Mayo, held as in the annexed Rental stated, viz.:
2 Lots. The Lands of Letterbeg. held as to one undivided modern in fee, and as to the otherunder leases for lives with convenant for perpetual renewal...
The Lands of Curraghbee East and West ,(part of), held as to one undivided moiety in fee and as to the other, under fee farm grant...
Dated this 7th day of May, 1860
C.E.DOBBS, Examiner.WM.M. MCCAY, Solicitor, having carriage of proceedings,  39, Westland Row."
 - The Freeman's Journal 24 May. 1860. Thu.
I hope it helps in your search in some way.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Bob Queensland on Wednesday 09 March 22 05:52 GMT (UK)
Hi 53,
Have been searching through DNA matching of late and missed your post. The property listed aligns to Arthur's mother residence/lands, Bayview House and Cottage at Curraghbee a couple of miles south of Binghamstown, I believe. Maria Houston, William Bingham's wife eventually moved into Arthur's Doolough Lodge until her death at 99ys in Nov 1899. I think the sale went through as Arthur's brother William "Willy" emigrated to Melbourne about the same time. I am still chasing a wife for Maj Denis Bingham and a mother for my GG Grandfather William, aided and abetted by many helpful friends. Thank you for your interest, keep safe mate, Bob
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Friday 13 January 23 11:49 GMT (UK)

Quote
As you have already read, my ancestors stem from Doolough Lodge, the earliest my great great grandfather Arthur Shaen Bingham from the 1850's, I am unsure whether his father William owned it, a hunting lodge as part of the Bingham Estate in the early 1800s.

GeoHive National Townland and Historical Map Viewer (which is back up and running again) has these maps for Doolough Lodge.

After clicking 'Accept' and 'OK', click on the relevant Basemap Gallery map.

Historic 6" Last Edition B&W
https://arcg.is/1qWCeD
https://arcg.is/1u1vOn



Update:

OSi National Townland and Historical Map Viewer.
Doolough Lodge

MapGenie 6 Inch Last Edition Black
https://arcg.is/1zGHTj1


Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: ruthgaytan on Monday 13 February 23 02:30 GMT (UK)
Hi

I have confirmed that Bridget and Katherine Geraghty's mother was Ellen Tollett.

Ellen's father was Lord William Tollett, Earl of Mayo. Ellen's brother (and Bridget and Catherine's Uncle) was Lord Frances Tollett. Their cousin John Tollett esq of Belmullet. Nothing is known of their father (Geraghty) Ellen's husband, at least not in my family.

anyone know anything about the Tolletts?

I am just finding out that I believe I am a descendant of the Tolletts. I believe Ellen Tollett the daughter of Lord William Tollett married James Geraghty and they had Catherine Geraghty "Kitty" who married Major Denis Bingham. I am thinking Lord William Tollett would be my 5th Greag Grandfather and Ellen Tollett Geraghty my 4th Great Grandmother.
Title: Re: Major Denis Bingham's son William birth information
Post by: ruthgaytan on Saturday 11 March 23 04:27 GMT (UK)
amac1210

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