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Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: steve59 on Thursday 06 April 17 09:09 BST (UK)
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Hi
I'm looking for information on Nellie Smith bc 1894, the wife of the following
Harry Laycock - b 1892 - married 13 March 1912
She deserted him during WWI whilst he was in France
Robert Batty Threlfall - b 20 May 1892 - married 31 March 1920
She also had another relationship prior to Robert Batty Threlfall with a Mr Courtney with who she had a daughter on 12 September 1918.
Nellie came from a travellers family and one of her sons, Robert Threlfall b 12 Feb 1929, was born in the 'field' of the Swan Inn at Addingham, Yorkshire.
Any information on Nellie Smith would be appreciated.
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Do you have a copy of either of her marriage certs showing her fathers name?
Have you found her on the 1901 or 1911 census to determine her birthplace?
The 1912 marriage was in Yorkshire
The 1920 marriage was in Lancaster and she married as Smith - not as Laycock.
She died 1962 Lancaster aged 69
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Some of these details might tie up with original request 04/06/05, asking for Threlfall
Louisa Maud
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This is the marriage for Nellie Smith age 19 spinster address Calverley.. father James William Smith no occupation given ...
Spouse Harry Laycock age 20 ..12,Sydney Street Farsley ( Hand Loom Weaver) father Edward Laycock (bricklayer ) Witnesses Joseph William Laycock and Susan Wilkinson
Marriage date 13/3/1912 Farsley St John Yorkshire
Rosie
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1901, RG13/4186 F 132 P 25
This looks like Harry with his parents and siblings
Edmund ? Laycock 33 Stone mason born Farsley
Martha 34 born Darlington
Joseph 11
Harry 9
Alice 5
Mary 3
Fred 1
All siblings born Farsley
Poss birth for Harry, 1891 Dec qtr Bradford, MMN Williams
Edmund Laycock married Martha Williams March qtr 1889 Bradford
Louisa Maud
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Army records for Harry Laycock states Nellie also took up with another man surname Wormald their child Mary Laycock was now in his mothers care at 23.Tennyson Street Farsley ..Son Clifford was with his mother Mrs N Laycock 71. Ilkley Road Otley ..
Rosie
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There is a family tree on Ancestry but nothing about Nellie, seems she couldn't be found, although we can't publish it I would have thought I might have found her on 1911 and I could have continued back from there, no such luck
Her 2 sons
John Threlfall was born 09/07/1930 and died 1996 Lancaster
Robert born 12/02/1929 died 1997 Lancs
Still no joy with Nellie, pity she has the surname of Smith
Louisa Maud
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Thanks for all the information.
I haven't been able to find her on any census, though I do know that she worked as a domestic servant at the School House, East Road, Lancaster in 1920 at the time of her marriage to Robert Batty Threlfall. After this time she 'went back on the road' travelling.
I shall get a copy of the Nellie Threlfall death certificate from 1962 to see if that throws out any more information.
Steve
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Her death cert is most unlikely to provide you with the type of information you need to research her ancestry
Was her 1920 marriage bigamous as I can't find a death for Harry Laycock prior to 1920 unless he died in WW1
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Nellie's second marriage was in the name of Smith, when it mostly likely should have been Laycock, did she show herself as being a widow or a spinster?, I also cannot find a suitable death for Harry
Louisa Maud
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I think Nellie Laycock lived in Shipley for a number of years, listed on the ER'S with possibly a son John, checked 1925-1949
Steve, have you checked on 1939 register for Harry Laycock?
Louisa Maud
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Harry Laycock was discharged from the army 12/3/19 states he was married address was 23.Tennyson Street Farsley Leeds Yorks
He was still around when his father died 31/12/1937 same address as above he is mentioned in the probate record and his occupation is pattern weaver ..
Don't know about this death for a Harry Laycock birth year 1892 died 1954 age 62 Leeds Yorkshire
Rosie
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Can't find Edmund living at Tennyson St on ER's but not far away is Thornfield Ave where there is a Harry Laycock living, coincidence or what ?
Louisa Maud
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See reply #8. I suspect she married bigamously
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Yes, Carole, you may be right
23 is coming up on most ER'S as 23 Melbourne St, wonder if at sometime it changed it's name, BUT as always I stand to be corrected
1921
Edwin
Martha
Harry
Fred
1922 AS ABOVE
1923 E M F TILL 1928
1930 E M plus Alice
all 23 Melbourne St
sometimes he is shown as Edwin or Edmund.
Rosie the death in 1954 looks good but no will or probate
LM
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1957 Halifax Road, 54/56 Chapter House Shipley is coming up
Martha, William and Harry Laycock, can't find Harry after that, it might be just a coincidence but Martha was his mother's name
LM
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See reply #8. I suspect she married bigamously
Yes would agree ;)
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Yes, Carole, you may be right
23 is coming up on most ER'S as 23 Melbourne St, wonder if at sometime it changed it's name
Yes seen that address which looks like the family
Marriage for Harrys's brother Fred 1924 parish of Pudsey has the address as 23,Tennyson Street Farsley Leeds Yorks
Rosie the death in 1954 looks good but no will or probate
Could not see a probate either for Harry
LM
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Still no further with information on Nellie Smith but I would think this was the death for their son Clifford birth date 13/7/1914 ( information from army records ) died September 1982 Manchester
Aged 68
Rosie
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I think Nellie Laycock lived in Shipley for a number of years, listed on the ER'S with possibly a son John, checked 1925-1949
Steve, have you checked on 1939 register for Harry Laycock?
Louisa Maud
There is a Nellie Laycock with a John Laycock 1924/1925 living in a caravan at Pudding Hall Farm Township of Shipley
1928/1929 Hut Residence ?..Is this the same record you found
Rosie
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Yes Rosie but supposition so far , she did have a son John
LM
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Did wonder about this record 1901 census Victoria Buildings District Calverley St Wilfred Yorkshire
Joseph Horton age 53 b Cambridgeshire
Mary A Horton age 47 b Lancashire
Nellie Smith age 8 b Leeds visitor
Piece 4186 Folio 16 page 24
Rosie
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Perhaps Steve you can let us know the information when you receive the certificates
Louisa Maud
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Be interesting to see what information is on the second marriage for Nellie Smith ?
Rosie
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This is the marriage for Nellie Smith age 19 spinster address Calverley.. father James William Smith no occupation given ...
Spouse Harry Laycock age 20 ..12,Sydney Street Farsley ( Hand Loom Weaver) father Edward Laycock (bricklayer ) Witnesses Joseph William Laycock and Susan Wilkinson
Marriage date 13/3/1912 Farsley St John Yorkshire
Just to throw this into the pot
Joseph William and Susan Wilkinson married March qtr. 1913 N Bierley
Louisa Maud
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I have thought for a while that Nellie may have married bigamously as I have not been able to find a death notification for Harry Laycock, or a divorce. Looking at his war record there is memo that shows that Nellie had been unfaithful by 1916 to someone called Wormald whilst he was in the army.
I say that I have been looking for a death notice for Harry since on Nellie's marriage certificate to Robert Batty Threlfall on 31/3/1920 she is classed as a widow aged 26 years. She also married under the name of Smith and not Laycock.
But on the birth certificate of her son Robert in 1929 she is called Nellie Threlfall formerly Laycock.
I shall have a look at all the thoughts that folks have been kind enough to suggest.
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Yes also on the births for her other children she uses the maiden name Laycock ??? Does it say the name of her father on her marriage to Robert Threfall ...Is it the same name James William ?
Rosie
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On the marriage certificate to Robert Batty Threlfall her father is given as John William Smith a leather tanner.
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I have a feeling I saw Harry's date of birth on his attestation papers, it was very faint, I am not at home so will check up later, have you thought Harry might have married again, if Nellie got away with what looks like a bigamous marriage so might he??
Louisa Maud
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1957 Halifax Road, 54/56 Chapter House Shipley is coming up
Martha, William and Harry Laycock, can't find Harry after that, it might be just a coincidence but Martha was his mother's name, AS ON PREVIOUS MESSAGE
IS THIS WORTH CHECKING OUT?, supposition on my part
Louisa Maud
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I am sure if you looked on Find my past 1939 it would help you with this family I am sure, but if you don't subscribe you won't get all the details, you will have to take out a subscription, try and see how you get on, it might solve some mysteries, well worth a small subscription
Louisa Maud
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On the marriage certificate to Robert Batty Threlfall her father is given as John William Smith a leather tanner.
So a different name on the first marriage certificate for the father ::)
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gets more complicated
I do wonder if this should be on the Yorks board with people more familiar with the areas
LM
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Anymore updates Steve?
Louisa Maud
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Hi Steve59
I know your post is from sometime ago, but I'm wondering if you found out any more about Nellie Smith? I have been looking for information on Nellie Smith and also William Courtney.
Regards, Caroline