RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Cork => Topic started by: foleygirl on Saturday 15 April 17 20:56 BST (UK)
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Searching for info of family of Johanna Cremin born 29 Oct 1868 in Ireland. Parents are Cornelius Cremin and Johanna Lane. Her Baptism record showed her church to be the Parish of Boherbue in the Diocese of Kerry. A sponsor to her baptism was shown to be Margaret Lane.
Johanna married John Foley of Islandbrack on 24 Feb. 1889 at the Church of the Immaculate Conception in Boherbue. Witnesses to the marriage was her father, Cornelius Cremin and a Michael Lane.
Johanna and husband John came to America in 1889.
Hoping for anyone's help in finding my great grandmother's family. Thank you so much!
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Her baptism 29 Oct
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01jxd/
Her birth 28 Oct
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1868/03414/2252322.pdf
Her birth gives the address (townland) as Upper Kiskeam
Some variations on the spelling of Cremin
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A sister Bridget 1871
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01jxf/
Birth
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1871/03303/2210452.pdf
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A brother Jeremiah 1873
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01jxg/
Birth
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1873/03203/2174576.pdf
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Mary 1864
Mother's surname spelt a bit different here but as Lane on birth cert.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01jxh/
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1864/03610/2332080.pdf
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There could be more children but Mary born June 1864 puts their marriage before Civil Registration started so they won't have a marriage cert.
Very few marriages before 1864 in Boherbue
http://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0021
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Another sister
Honora 1878
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1878/02936/2075915.pdf
Honora's age is a bit out but I wonder if this is her and her parents in 1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Cork/Meens/Kishkeam_Upper/1147266/
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and Patrick and Cornelius
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01jxi/
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It's always best to keep all information in the thread so everyone helping can see it.
The workhouse had a hospital, so many people have the workhouse on their death certs who were not inmates of the workhouse they were just using the hospital. Without the workhouse records it's probably not possible to say which deaths are inmates and which are not.
Upper Kiskeam/Kishkeam is a townland in the RC parish of Boherbue.
Although in the Dioceses of Kerry the Parish of Boherbue is in County Cork.
There are lots of townlands in each RC parish.
Land divisions in Ireland can be very confusing, you can read a good guide here http://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit.com/Irish-land-divisions.html
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Daniel 1859
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VRSF-QWH
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Before looking at the Foley's let get all the children found to Cornelius and Johanna in order and see if there are any gaps where there could be more births.
Daniel 1859, pushes the parents marriage back before 1859.
A gap, could be more births here
Mary 1864
Patrick 1866
Johanna 1868
Bridget 1871
Jeremiah 1873
Cornelius 1876
Honora 1878
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We have a problem the marriage of Johanna Cremin to John Foley gives her father as Denis
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1890/10696/5898572.pdf
Looks like we have been looking at the incorrect family.
You said Johanna and John went to America the year they married, have you got them in the 1900 Census in America so we can check their ages.
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A child Julia born July 1889 to John Foley and Hannah Cremin Islandbrack
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1889/02447/1910235.pdf
is she a name you already have?
is this the family in 1900 US census
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MM5L-833
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There is a Denis Cremin and Honora Jones, Kiskeam having children baptised in Boherbue in the 1860s but I haven't found a Johanna.
There is another thing bugging me.
I can see the baptism and birth of John Foley to Jeremiah and Julia in Boherbue, but on the marriage it gives John's father as John.
To have both father's incorrect on the marriage would be very odd, it could of course be the wrong marriage.
Something isn't right that's for sure.
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This seems to be where the name Cornelius was got
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2M1-FYJH
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Wow a transcript of the marriage in Boherbue is online.
Doesn't match the cert, fathers as Cornileus and Jeremiah
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01jxu/
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Just to add to the confusion the Baptisim of Julia Foley, mother Honora, one of the sponsors is Johanna.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01jxv/
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also strange how the other marriages on that page dont show on church records
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1890/10696/5898572.pdf
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I think I know what went wrong, short of time now but think it's the names in Latin looking alike.
Priest couldn't read his own writing.
Fathers correct on church record, incorrect on civil cert.
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A sister Ellen ? marrying John Cotter in 1882
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1882/10987/8016923.pdf
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In all the census records I have found of my great grandparents it stated more often that they immigrated in 1889. Along with this I was told the ship name and year to be 1889, but this one census record shown in link states they came to America in 1890. To me this makes more sense as John was a busy boy already marrying in February and having their first child in October. I doubt that many ships traveled in winter months due to ice. A distant cousin has stated that she has a 'manifest' that was sent by Johanna to her younger brother, James stating that they had a rough ride on the ship and almost hit an iceberg. I asked for a copy of this manifest but it has not arrived to me yet.
John Bernard Foley (my great grandfather) began employment with the Railroad of May of 1890 in Pocatello, Bannock Co., Idaho. So this leaves the Foley's coming to America after October 1889 and before May of 1890. I was told that they came aboard a ship called the Aurania and boarded in Queenstown.
John and Johanna lived in Pocatello, Idaho throughout their lives and are buried here.
Here's the census you asked for.
http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=jsh6&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&indiv=1&db=1900usfedcen&gss=angs-d&new=1&rank=1&msT=1&gsfn=John&gsfn_x=0&gsln=Foley&gsln_x=0&msbdy=1865&msbpn__ftp=Ireland&msbpn=3250&msbpn_PInfo=3-%7C0%7C1652381%7C0%7C3250%7C0%7C0%7C0%7C0%7C0%7C0%7C0%7C&msgdy=1889&mssng=Johanna&mssns=Cremin&MSAV=1&MSV=0&uidh=h1h&pcat=35&fh=4&h=9791310&recoff=&ml_rpos=5
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The Census link only works if you have a Ancestry subscription.
The Aurania sailed 1889 Queenstown to New York.
https://www.geni.com/projects/Queenstown-Cork-Departures/29440
So New York arrivals would be the place to look for them.
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Dates
http://www.norwayheritage.com/p_ship.asp?sh=auran
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I have not been able to find proof of the ships list yet showing actually when John and Johanna left. I have found ship records for 1887 for the Aurania but nothing after that year until into the 1905 year. I did find this link which shows the Aurania's schedule leaving from Liverpool.
http://www.norwayheritage.com/p_ship.asp?sh=auran
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I found so many mistakes through death certificates. I tried to send this attachment earlier but it wouldn't go through. I'll try it again. Here's what I have received from the Parish showing Johanna's Birth Certificate.
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Here's John's Birth Certificate and Marriage Certificate of John and Johanna.
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I apologize for the confusion of my last email in sharing frustration of errors in death certificates. I must have had one of those episodes where my brain ventured off. I have been so busy checking on ship manifests, New York ships (all ships) entering during 1889 and 1890 and nothing finding John Foley, wife Johannah, daughter, Julia and mother to John, Julia Loughnan/Loughnane. I did find a John Foley on a different boat with his age being off by one year and the Immigration date 1888 but that didn't work for we have proof of marriage date and birth of child in 1889. I'm amazed at how many John Foley's there are married to Johanna's with different names. I feel that you are all seeing the errors that I've found that just make me wonder if I'm on the right track. Before sending the Parish documents of John and Johanna I had found my great grandfather's death certificate on ancestry. John died 31 Aug 1946 here in Pocatello, Idaho USA. His official death certificate has birth/death dates correct along with place but somehow they have his spouse as being Johanna Mclaughlin. I am amazed at how many errors I've found in researching my Foley family. I have found some info off of familysearch.org but in saying that, I've had more errors found on that site than anywhere else.
I'm trying to regroup my thoughts in trying to find where else to look for ships to enter USA during that year. The only one I can think of would be New York but I've searched records all day and have come up with nothing.
I want to thank you again for all your help as I appreciate new eyes on this journey.
Thank you,
Foleygirl,
Trudy
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I'm sorry that the census info did not come through to you. I have this link for the same census. I hope this one you can open. https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MM5L-839 No matter where I go, the census's are only found on genealogy sites in which some you have to register and others pay for their postings. Familysearch.org is a free site.
Every time I searched for the 1900 census it would not come up so I left his birth year off and it came up. This census has his birth year at 1866 which is incorrect (as his certificate states he was born in 1865).
I have all the info of John Foley and Johanna Cremin's children but I did not have anything about Johanna until you found siblings for me. So now I need to complete the siblings of Johanna and their lives along with solving when John and Johanna came to America. It would be so wonderful to have a relative connect with me that is from Johanna Cremin's line or even John Foley's line.
Thank you for your help!
Foleygirl,
Trudy
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A birth, emigration year etc. Depends on the month of the year it was asked, how the question was asked and if the person knew the correct answer or not.
Many people simple didn't know their birth year never mind the month or date, and if the did know it depends if the question is asked before or after their birthday that year what answer they give.
If you were asked how many years you were in a country rather than what year you arrived, you may say 10 years rather than 10 years 2 months which could change the appearantly year of arrival, or you could be on route over the new year.
Put simply you always have to allow a few years each side when you are searching.
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I agree with Sinann that the "mistakes" you are seeing are very typical. The census information could have come from anyone, even neighbors, (the 1940 census is the first to mark who the informant was), and people tended to forget when events occurred when they were asked about it years later. In my experience, Irish immigrants from that time frame were particularly bad at keeping the same birth year from record to record.
Do you have any specific information indicating that they sailed through New York? If not, I would check other East coast ports, particularly Canadian ones since these folks wound up in the north and the Canadian railway may have been the easiest route at that time.
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Hi Trudy,
I had a look at the Ellis Island records and their is an entry for John Foley on the Anchoria in 1899 from Glasgow ??? I wonder if the ship stopped off at Liverpool or Queenstown???
http://libertyellisfoundation.org/passenger-result You might have to scroll down to find the exact one.
Mary
Celtic Liberty
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I think this is the correct passenger list - https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVPJ-3S5T It has Johannah listed as Hannah.
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OH my goodness!! Shelleyesq you found them!!!! Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! I have spent days and many hours searching through passenger lists. I went with the obvious and went to the RMS Aurania passenger list site to find that there were ships going out of Queensland and to New York throughout 1889 but at the site many ship records were missing for 1889. I then went to www.immigrantships.net, then to www.gjenvick.com, www.Cunradline.com, www.norwayheritage.com, ancestry.com, familysearch.org, Ellis Island, and so on.
How you found this link through family search amazes me for I went to that site several times and took advice from others and expanded the year dates a few years and left off the ship name after I couldn't find info from the Aurania. I even found an entry at this same site for John Foley, arrival date of May 16, 1889 aboard the ship, Spain which departed Liverpool Queenstown in destination to Wexford and port of arrival to New York. On this ship was listed Johanna Crimmin age 20 and Bridget Crimmin age 18. I was trying to find the full passenger list to see if I could find Julia Loughnane Foley but hadn't found it yet. Again at this site I found John, Julia, James Foley aboard the ship named, Alabama which arrived April 22, 1889. The departure dates didn't work for my family had a marriage and birth of a child in Ireland that didn't correspond with the dates.
It's amazing you found this. You all have been so wonderfully kind in all your efforts spent on my life's puzzle of finding my ancestors. I thank you all with my entire heart!!!! What a birthday present this has been for me. I'll have to make note in my heritage book that all you women had helped me find my grandparents and beyond during my birthday week and today (the day before) my birthday I find the ship that brought them to America. I can not express the joy enough.
You all are wonderful!!!
With much appreciation and love,
foleygirl,
Trudy
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To Sinann, dathai, Shellyesq, and Celtic liberty,....this is who you helped me find. https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Foley&GSfn=John&GSby=1865&GSbyrel=in&GSdyrel=all&GScntry=4&GSob=n&GRid=48397025&df=all&
Now I'm continuing my search for Johanna Cremin's line before she married John.
Thank you again for finding all that you've found for me.
foleygirl,
Trudy
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That's great Shellyesq, I'd looked at that set on FamilySearch as well and didn't find them.
I had started to see if I could find siblings for John but was getting a bit bogged down in it and haven't had time to look since but could you clear up one or two things foleygirl.
John's mother Julia clearly didn't travel with him to America.
Do I remember correctly that she did go to America as did some of her other children before John went?
Do you already have any names for her other children?
Happy Birthday for tomorrow and thanks for showing us the photograph, it's always good to put a face to the names.
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Sinann, I tried to answer your questions earlier but just as I was half way done with my email,....Google had an issue and everything shut down and I lost the reply. To answer your first question, ....
I had bits of pieces of handwritten notes and documents that was shared with me by a distant cousin I was given info without sources so I tried to find proof. I was told that Johanna Cremin Foley traveled with John Foley, wife Johanna, and infant baby, Julia on the Aurania in 1889 but I could never find proof until Shellesq found it on familysearch.org., however Julia Loughnane Foley (John's mother was not listed). So obviously Julia Loughnane Foley traveled at a different time on possibly a different ship. I do not have the ship records of when Jeremiah and Julia Loughnane's children came to America. The older relative gave me this info without proof of the children in which they were all born in Ireland;
Mary born 1856 (no other info)
Bridget born 11 June 1857 (no other info)
Nora born Apr 1860 (no other info)
Delia born Dec 1858/ married, John Fusz on 25 Jan 1886 in Eagle Rock, Idaho. They are both
buried here in Pocatello, Idaho at the Mountain View Cemetery. Delia died 30 Oct 1910
This is the family that Johanna Loughnane Foley lived with until death. Johanna died two
years before her daughter Delia. Delia died from a respiratory disease.
Timothy born 14 May 1863 (no other info)
John Bernard (my great grandfather) born 10 Cec 1865 in Islandbrack, Ireland
Married, Johanna Cremin on 24 Feb 1889 in Boherbue (I have birth/marriage/death certificate
Died, 31 Aug 1946 in Pocatello, Idaho USA both are buried at the Mountain View Cemetery
James born 10 Oct 1870 (no other info)
To answer your second question, yes I have some info of John Foley and Johanna Cremin's children.
Child 1. Julia- born 14 July 1889 Islandbrack ( I had only the year)
Married- Arthur J. Bozarth on 27 Feb 1906 Pocatello, Idaho (no children found yet)
Died- 7 July 1980 in Alameda, California USA
Child 2. Hannah born 4 July 1891 in Pocatello, Bannock Co., Idaho USA
Married- Patrick Alison (no date or place or children found)
Died- 8 May 1963 Pocatello, Idaho and buried at Mountain View Cemetery
Child 3. Mary Elizabeth born 13 Sep 1892 Pocatello, Idaho
(nothing found on marriage yet)
Died- 15 March 1917 Pocatello, Bannock Co., Idaho buried at Mountain View Cemetery
Child 4. Timothy Jeremiah born 29 Mar 1894 Pocatello, Bannock Co., Idaho (my grandparents)
Married- Mabel Elizabeth Burbridge Fraser on 26 Apr 1916 Pocatello, Idaho
Children; Margaret Elizabeth born 1917 (my mother), Mary Claire born 1919,
Dorothy born 1920, Jerry born 1924, last child still living.
Died- 28 Jun 1893 Pocatello, Idaho and both buried at Mountain View Cemetery
Child 5. Margaret born 28 Jan 1896 in Pocatello, Idaho
Married- John Evans 4 Dec 1925 Pocatello, Bannock Co., Idaho USA (no info of children)
Died- 17 March 1980 in Contra Costa, California USA
Child 6. Lenora born 25 Oct 1897 in Pocatello, Idaho
Married- Eli Inlestrom in 1918 (no other info found yet)
Died- 6 Oct 1968
Child 7. John Joseph born 11 May 1899 in Pocatello, Idaho
(marriage unknown)
Died- 10 Apr 1950 Pocatello, Idaho buried at Mountain View Cemetery
Child 8. Theresa Josephine born 23 Sep 1901 Pocatello, Idaho
Died- 5 Jan 1920 Pocatello, Idaho and buried at Mountain View Cemetery
(She died young from complications from pneumonia and her heart)
Child 9. Florence (Adelle) born 27 Jan 1904 Pocatello, Idaho
Married- Bryan Garrison on 9 Feb 1924 Salt Lake City, Utah
Died- 16 Nov 1935 in Salt Lake City, Utah
Child 10. Francis (Casey) born 14 Feb 1906 Pocatello, Idaho
Married- Wilbur J. Cullen on 14 Nov 1928
Died- 1 Apr 1948 Pocatello, Idaho and buried at Mountain View Cemetery
With your help I'm getting Cornelius Cremin/Crimmin and Johanna Lane's children found. These are the parents of Johanna Cremin.
I have parents for Julia Loughnane (Jeremiah Foley's wife) and they are;
John Loughnane born 1804 in Islandbrack (no other info found). He married Bridget Breen but no marriage date found yet. John died 6 Dec 1864 in Islandbrack. No birth info found on Bridget Breen but I was given death date being, 4 March 1865 in Islandbrack. This info was part of the paperwork from the older relative. I do not have children for them yet accept for Julia.
I know this is a lot of info but I hope it answers your questions. Thank you again for your help. You all have touched me with your kindness of time and energy spent in helping me find my family.
Heartfelt Appreciation,
Foleygirl,
Trudy
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Mary born 1856 (no other info)
Bridget born 11 June 1857 (no other info)
Nora born Apr 1860 (no other info)
Delia born Dec 1858/ married, John Fusz on 25 Jan 1886 in Eagle Rock, Idaho. They are both
buried here in Pocatello, Idaho at the Mountain View Cemetery. Delia died 30 Oct 1910
This is the family that Johanna Loughnane Foley lived with until death. Johanna died two
years before her daughter Delia. Delia died from a respiratory disease.
Timothy born 14 May 1863 (no other info)
John Bernard (my great grandfather) born 10 Cec 1865 in Islandbrack, Ireland
Married, Johanna Cremin on 24 Feb 1889 in Boherbue (I have birth/marriage/death certificate
Died, 31 Aug 1946 in Pocatello, Idaho USA both are buried at the Mountain View Cemetery
James born 10 Oct 1870 (no other info)
These are the people I was trying to find, should be easier with names and approx years to work with.
Start with these.
James baptised 10 Oct 1870
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01jyg/
Number 182
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632556#page/120/mode/1up
this is one where you would question the father's name.
John baptised 10 Dec 1865
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01jyh/
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632556#page/46/mode/1up
Bridget baptised 11 June 1857
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01jyi/
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632553#page/193/mode/1up
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Timothy 14 May 1863, can't be confirmed unless more can be found for him.
A Timothy was born to a Jeremiah the address in Rohill but the mother's name is so faint as to be unreadable.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01jyj/
last one on the page
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632556#page/9/mode/1up
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The only child of John and Johanna Cremin Foley born in Ireland was Julia. All the other children were born in Pocatello, Idaho USA.
Jeremiah and Julia Loughnane Foley's children were all born in Ireland as were the Cremin's and Loughnane's.
I apologize for my email info to be so long but I didn't want to waste your time in researching what I already had so I showed what I did and didn't have.
Thank you again for all your hard work.
Sincerely,
Foleygirl,
Trudy
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My apologize on misreading the info given. It's morning here and I had one of those old timer moments of air in my brain. You were correct and I was wrong in thinking you were referring to the USA group of children when actually you were giving me the Irish born children.
foleygirl
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Delia born Dec 1858/ married, John Fusz on 25 Jan 1886 in Eagle Rock, Idaho. They are both
buried here in Pocatello, Idaho at the Mountain View Cemetery. Delia died 30 Oct 1910
This is the family that Johanna Loughnane Foley lived with until death. Johanna died two
years before her daughter Delia. Delia died from a respiratory disease.
According to the 1900 US Census Delia was born 1863
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MM5L-WPH
This death 30 Oct 1910
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FWDM-9VF
gives father's name as John.
Would it have made sense for her to have died in Michigan?
I don't see anything yet to prove this is woman is part of the family.
Her marriage would be needed to prove her parents names and if she isn't part of the family than her mother isn't Julia Loughlane Foley.
More work need on this woman.
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Had a look through the parish register from 1863 to 1872 births and marriages up to 1880 but didn't find anyone else.
Can't find a civil birth cert for James either.
There is a gap in the parish register from Dec 1860 to Feb 1863 so if any of the family were born between those dates there won't be a record of them.
The 1860 and earlier is the old style register so a lot slower to search, haven't looked at that yet.
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I was given info of Delia from a 2nd great grandson but in researching her I found a death article in the Tribune Newspaper dated Oct 31, 1910 which stated she died 52 years ago which would have made her 1858. Then I found her death certificate in which they crossed out the wrong death date to put her birth year as being May 20, 1863 along with death as Oct. 30, 1910.
I've been trying to send these documents to you but it errors because the attachments are too large. I'm embarrassed that I don't know how to reduce the size to send them to you. I've never had this happen before when using my personal email as I guess it automatically reduces the picture. Can anyone talk me through this process.
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OOPS, I made an error in subtracting as the article places her as born year to be 1852 according to the newspaper article. Sorry.
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There is no need to attach them, RootsChat doesn't allow full certs in any case, just snippets for deciphering.
There is also a limit on the size of images.
The question is can it be proved she is a member of the same family as John.
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The death certificate does show father to Delia Fusz being John Foley along with husband being John Fusz.
The newspaper article gives Delia's husband's name as John Fusz and states they were married at Eagle Rock which is now Idaho Falls, Idaho USA. It goes on to mention the children and spouses to some.
Mrs. (Margaret) J. W. Grossman
Nrs, (Essie) Percy Silver
Miss Florence Adelle (and states her to be the baby)
Son, is Alban Fusz
The distant cousin stated that there was one more child named Jessie (born 16 Jun 1886 and died in 1893 in Pocatello, Idaho USA.
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I'm thinking that the death certificate is an error of father's name as I've been finding errors all along. I spoke with the 2nd great grandson and he had info of other siblings including my great grandfather along with proof of a photo taken in Pocatello, Idaho in front of John Foley's house which included Alban Fusz (the child of Delia) along with my great grandparents.
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Here is the 1900 census for Delia Foley Fusz and husband John Fusz. It mentions the children along with Julia Foley who is Jeremiah's wife,....Julia Loughnane Foley. Julia is buried out to the Mountain View Cemetery in Pocatello, Idaho with the Fusz family.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DY9C-VW?mode=g&i=31&cc=1325221
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Here is a printout of the death certificate. There were two from the state of Michigan and one shows the father as being John Foley with a strange name for maiden name of mother which possibly could read,....Doul-Kuner (difficult to read). The other death certificate is attached and has the mother correct but no maiden name. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FWDM-9VF
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I found this link showing a family tree of John Fusz and Delia Foley. I did have a distant family member through the Percy Silver family contact me through cousinsconnect.com
This person that corresponded with me is through Delia Foley and John Fusz's line.
https://familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/KFG7-RNL/portrait
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On all of the death certificates I've seen on Delia it states she died from 'gastric carcinoma'. I read up on the condition to discover that it's a common stomach cancer and it's 'hereditary'. I wonder if Jeremiah's diagnoses of hemoptysis is related. Jeremiah's condition gave many diseases that would cause his coughing up blood. I have written to two Fusz family members on Ancestry that had a private link. I had asked them if they found proof of linking Jeremiah Foley and Julia Loughnane to Delia. I'm just waiting for a reply.
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When you gave this awesome link to the Boherbue Parish Records,...I noticed names that fit my family but the parents names were spelled strange. Is this what you were referring to as priest writing in Latin? Some of the names do seem like Latin. I have forgotten my Latin introduction that was many years ago when being a child at a Catholic church and school. This document is so neat to look through. Thank you for this link.
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632556#page/1/mode/1up
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The photograph outside John Foley's house showing Delia is good, clearly they all knew each other, it's just such a pity the death cert says father John, quite possibly an error but her marriage cert would be a big help.
Yes priest used Latin in the parish registers. The surname and address isn't in Latin but usually the first names were, how they were spelt could vary from priest to priest.
Delia could have been born during the years missing from the register or in this earlier time period.
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632553#page/1/mode/1up
I haven't looked at this section yet, but it is transcribed on Irish Genealogy and I didn't find her or Nora there, it is also transcribed on Ancestry so if you have a subscription you could try there.
The handwriting is terrible on it so transcription mistakes are quite possible.
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I just found a newspaper obituary on ancestry for Delia Foley and John Fusz's daughter, Essie.
The obit states the daughter's name as Essie Silver Fisher. She was born Jan. 10, 1891 in Pocatello, Idaho to John Fusz and Delia Foley Fusz. Essie died at age 85 in 1976. She married three husbands who all died and left her a widow. The obit goes on to list the children of Essie and includes cousin's with my grandfather, Timothy J. Foley being listed in her obit. So this shows proof.
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Excellent, great find. Doesn't that feel great.
I know I kept on about it but now you can show step by step proof despite the father's name on the death cert.
So that's
James
John
Bridget
Delia
Thimothy, Mary and Nora are still unproven.
Tracing back that list of cousins in the Obit for Essie may lead back to more of John Foley's siblings, perhaps it can be used to prove some of the others as well. Some of them will probably be from the Fusz side of the family.
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Yes, this entire experience has been great! You all have given me new areas to search and a head start on family. I'll work on the next child.
Thank you,
Foleygirl,
Trudy
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I wonder if this could be James' death, some of the detail isn't quite correct but it's close.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FLY6-JM4
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Yes I'm sure this is my James Foley for this town wasn't that large back in his day. I can't go out to the Mountain View Cemetery until Monday, but I'll go out and find his grave as this document that you found shows him buried at the same graveyard as the other Foley family. Maybe I'll find more info on his headstone.
I had to laugh at the address where he lived for it's one block North and one block east of where John Foley and Johanna Cremin lived (they are my great grandparents). Later in years, John and Johanna sold the house to their son, Timothy Jeremiah and Mabel Fraser (my grandparents). James died way before I was born. It seems to be a pattern of this family working for the railroad.
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For James Foley I found his daughter Mary's obit listing him as father and mother is Jane Cooney Foley which matches the death certificate that you had sent to me but gives his wife's name.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVS8-RJLM?from=lynx1&treeref=L71L-HZM
James birth info through same site and links him to Jeremiah Foley and Julia Loughnane. https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FRQX-K5T?from=lynx1&treeref=L71L-HZM
James Foley County Naturalization papers https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89HN-9V2Q?mode=g&cc=2078306
1910 Census shows James with wife and children.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GRJB-LDS?mode=g&cc=1727033
So I went out to the Mountain View Cemetery to find his grave but did not find James Foley (the guy I was searching for) but found a James S. Foley. I walked up upon a 6 foot 'Foley' monument, (a long ways away from my Foley ancestors) to discover two names at the base which read, James S. Foley and Genevieve Foley and gave birth/death years. So in trying to locate his info online to link I was at a loss. I corresponded with the Delia Foley/Fusz family generations on ancestry to discover this outrageous story.
This James S. Foley is not actually a Foley but a Silver. Through Jeremiah and Julia Foley's child, Delia Foley who married a Fusz,....a great grandson through a child of Delia had married a Genevieve. He later abandoned her and ended up in Montana in which he somehow changed his last name from Silver to Foley which was his ggrandmother's maiden name. I wouldn't think you could do such a thing. So I decided not to go back that far as his story really messed up my family connections.
So as the rain came down heavy, I gave up on searching for my actual James Foley born 1871 and died 1935. I will go back out tomorrow. When I tried to look him up through findagrave, he did not show up.
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Wow you have been busy. I only got a chance to look at one year of the parish register, didn't find anything. I have a lot going on at the moment but I'll get back to it.
That's great, you have his wife and children.
The Silver/Foley chap sounds interesting but best left for the moment, too much of a distraction, just to say you can use any name you like as long as you are not doing so to defraud anyone, hide from the law and such like.
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This Timothy looks interesting, he seems to be working on a dam.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GRJB-FTW?mode=g&i=2&cc=1727033
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So I did an ancestry search on Timothy Foley and found birth record so then I went to https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VRSF-RTL and found his birth being 1863. So in figuring that the document you found, it stated his Naturalization papers were 1882 so he'd be 19 when coming to America (correct?). This is a match.
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Sinann, when you gave me this Boherbue Parish registery, http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632556#page/10/mode/1up
referring to Timothy Foley,.....I could not find his birth in 1863. There was an area in which the writing was unreadable so I'm wondering if this is where he is entered. Did you find him at this site?
Also, I have a question. I sometimes find entries of Foley families on ancestry and family search and they make note that the info was found in the O'Kief, Coshe Mang, Slieve, Lougher, and Upper Blackwater in Ireland volumes (in which I'm familiar with) but then I can't find civil records or parish records at the Irish genealogy site that you've shared with me. If it's in the volumes wouldn't it come up at the civil records or Parish records? I've noticed this a lot when trying to send you all a link as I can't send through ancestry. The sites that you utilize for research have helped tremendously. I thank you again for your guidance.
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Careful with the links, your one is the following page.
This one http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632556#page/9/mode/1up
Timothy is number 80 and yes it is very faint.
I see it I can improve it.
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Not much better so I put a red mark next to it
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I sometimes find entries of Foley families on ancestry and family search and they make note that the info was found in the O'Kief, Coshe Mang, Slieve, Lougher, and Upper Blackwater in Ireland volumes (in which I'm familiar with)
You may be familiar with it but I'm stumped, I haven't any idea what that refers to, can you give me a FamilySearch link that shows it.
The Foley's obviously got their children baptised but they don't seem to have been too keen on getting them Registered with the Civil authorities.
I'd have to check back through the thread but I don't think I found birth certs for any of them, there won't be any before 1864 as that was the year Civil Registration started.
They come under the Registration District of Kanturk, same as the Cremin's.
Those baptisms I did find are in the RC parish of Boherbue
http://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0021 (NLI)
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01jzm/ (Irish Genealogy)
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Is this it
https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/259184?availability=Family%20History%20Library
I just use this when using FamilySearch
https://familysearch.org/search/collection/list/?page=1&countryId=1927084
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I apologize for assuming that you were familiar with these books at this site. https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/259184?availability=Family%20History%20Library
I was first introduced to this collection many years ago while visiting the Salt Lake City, Utah Family History Library. Just guessing but I'm pretty positive that familysearch.org is affiliated with the genealogy library for it's all from the same religion compiling the info. This series of books, https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/259184?availability=Family%20History%20Library was put together by a group of people under the direction of the author who traveled to Dublin and copied all the Civil Records and Parish Records. These books are very expensive to purchase and are usually found at a genealogy family center. As there are about 20 sites in the US with these volumes, I'd feel that they must be in Ireland. Here's a site to check to see if they are in your area. https://familysearch.org/locations/
So when referring to these volumes as source of info found on other sites I was confused at not finding the same info when going to Irish Civil Records. The info came from Irish Civil Records in Dublin so I guess I felt stumped in finding info in a book that copied the info from Civil Records Dept. in Dublin. I was trying to send you links of what I had found but being a paid genealogy site, I was not able to copy and send,.....So I went to free sites to find the same thing (but couldn't find it) to send to you. Have I confused you even more? I'm sorry if I have. It just seemed like both sources would have had the same info.
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They should all be the same records, no matter what site or resource you use.
Can you give me an example something you found in that set/book but couldn't find on the other sites.
I can see Kilkeem(Duhollow Barony) listed on that link, this is a variant name of Boherbue Parish.
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You had asked for an example of my question asked in an earlier reply of a family members info found at a source but when going to the source I could not find a match.
Here's an example; On one site I typed in Julia Loughnane and a baptism record came up for her but all it listed was her name, female, birth about 1818, place of event in Boherbue, County Cork, Ireland, and spouse listed as Timothy Foley.
Under the info stated above was a source which read;
Albert Eugene Casey, Eleanor L. Downey-Prince, and Ursula Dietrich.. Index of O'Kief, Coshe Mange, Slieve Lougher and Upper Blackwater in Ireland. 16 vols. Birmingham, Alabama: Knocknagree Historical Fund, 1952-1971. Found at the Family History Library in Salt Lake City, Utah under book call number 941.5 D2c Index, and under the following microfilm: 823801 (vols. 1-2); 823802 (vols. 3-4); 823803 (vols. 4-5); 823804 (vol. 7); 823805 (vol. 8); 823806 (vols. 9-10); 823808 (vols. 11-12); and 823809 (vols. 13-14).
The cover title notes that this compilation contains the what, when and where for the sixteen volumes on counties Cork and Kerry containing 30,000 pages, 3,000,000 personal names (indexed in each volume) with number maps of townlands, parishes, baronies, and counties. Not all of these entries have been included in this compilation at this time. However, the most important collections have been noted in the annotations below for use by researchers in pursuing additional investigations.
Volume 1: Baptisms of Rathmore Parish 1837-1874, including the parishes of Nohaval and Kilcummin, with a laçuna in the records from March 1841 - January 1844. It is said that an older parish register came to pieces and disappeared. The first available register is the one just noted. There are missing pages and many names are almost illegible. This is true thoughout the records of this collection.
Death records from several places in County Cork and County Kerry, not recorded in this electronic collection.
Volume 2: Births, Marriages, Deaths, Barony of Duhallow; Births, Christenings 1833-1864, St. Mary's Roman Catholic parish, Boherbue. County Cork., 2:369
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Please note that the above book, microfilm, and information is free to the public at designated Libraries throughout America and other genealogy centers throughout the world. The Salt Lake City, Utah Library offers microfilm to view actual handwritten documents from the volumes of this book mentioned above. Like I had shared in an earlier reply,.....the author and individuals under his direction had gone to Dublin and recorded all the info from Civil Records and Parish Records.
(Remember me sharing that all the documents I've found about Jeremiah Foley always listed him as Jeremiah but then I found him listed as Timothy at two sites along with many errors of names after that.)
I then went to https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/captcha.jsp
which takes you to civil and parish records and typed in, Julia Loughnane with the exact info that I found on the other site but nothing came up. I then broadened the year date to search for either birth, marriage, or death and the response came up with nothing. There was not even one Julia Loughnane entry brought up.
So this is what has confused me for I've found this to happen often when making searches. The book mentioned above were copied documents from Civil and Parish records at Dublin so I'm confused when the book and the agencies don't match.
I hope you can find a library that hosts this book and its microfilm for it's a wonderful tool in researching family.
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I hope you can find a library that hosts this book and its microfilm for it's a wonderful tool in researching family.
I won't be looking for it. All the records listed are free and online either on FamilySearch, NLI or Irish Genealogy.
So this is what has confused me for I've found this to happen often when making searches. The book mentioned above were copied documents from Civil and Parish records at Dublin so I'm confused when the book and the agencies don't match.
The only Parish records held in Dublin for parishes such as Boherbue are the microfilms on the NLI site.
The Civil Index they copied is on FamilySearch and Irish Genealogy.
All known records for the parish including LDS are listed here
https://www.johngrenham.com/records/rc_church.php?churchid=0021&parish=Boherbue
Which matches with the information you posted
Volume 2: Births, Marriages, Deaths, Barony of Duhallow; Births, Christenings 1833-1864, St. Mary's Roman Catholic parish, Boherbue. County Cork., 2:369
Here's an example; On one site I typed in Julia Loughnane and a baptism record came up for her but all it listed was her name, female, birth about 1818, place of event in Boherbue, County Cork, Ireland, and spouse listed as Timothy Foley.
So they can't have a baptism record for Julia. The record you found isn't a baptism as it gives a spouse and says about 1818. I can't help wondering if it was on Ancestry you found it. It looks like it came from a family tree, or possibly was one submitted to FamilySearch.
It can't be a marriage either as the register before 1863 didn't survive.
If you find it again take a screen shot of it, it's quite a puzzle.
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Thank you for your insight as it was puzzling for me as well. It's obvious not to be a match to my Julia Loughnane but when submitting a search on ancestry, this came up as a document and not off of a family tree. Most of the old documents appear in this form rather than a copy of an actual document. I wanted to view an actual document to understand when, where, and reason so I tried other sites to find the actual document but I reached a dead end as nothing was found.
I am amazed by the success I've experienced with the site's you have shown me. I have never been able to view an actual document other than a census record, draft card, or US death certificate until I met you on this site. Seing the actual documents further back in time and from Ireland are treasures.
I'm experiencing more success with my research now and I thank you for guidance. I just wish a Foley, Cremin, Loughnane family link in present time could link with me. How neat would that be. 😊
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I've looked through the rest of the Boherbue register from 1855 forward and I didn't find anything new.
There is the missing two years 1861 and 1862, we think Delia was born during these years but possibly one of the others as well, what's a bit off putting is the gap from Bridget 1857 and no one in '58 '59 or '60.
If your sure all the family went to America it looks like that is where you need to look for traces of Mary, Nora and Timothy.
You might consider asking for help on the USA board here, if you do be sure to give a link to this thread and lay out clearly what you have already found to save people doing unnecessary searching.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/usa/
and Good Luck
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Sinann, I thank you for all the help! I will check the site you gave me. I found more on the Cremin line through Johanna but my researching is put aside for a few weeks as I'm at my cabin in the mountains. I drove many miles to hook up to wifi to let you know that I won't be responding until the end of the month. Thank you again for your thoughtfulness and guidance.
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I hope you had other things to do with the wifi as well, enjoy your break and good lick with the search.
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Connecting to you means the world to me and I didn't want to leave you wondering. I love the cabin, wildlife, and pine trees but I do miss internet. I'm sure you can relate how wonderful it is when a dead end family line suddenly overfills with information. I didn't want to stop researching. I feared you'd think I got what I wanted and ungratefully disappeared. I'm not that kind of person.
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Not at all, I know you're not like that. Sounds like a lovely place, I went out to cut the grass and ended up spending the day in the garden it's good to get away from a screen every on and than.