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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Oxfordshire => Topic started by: KGarrad on Sunday 16 April 17 22:45 BST (UK)
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I have a Frederick Gray (b 1876, Broadwell, Oxfordshire) with his wife Elizabeth (b1879, Northleach, Gloucestershire).
In 1901 they are living in Northleach.
Class: RG13; Piece: 2451; Folio: 93; Page: 19
By 1911, they have moved to Cwmcarn, Crosskeys, Newport, Monmouthshire.
Class: RG14; Piece: 32043; Schedule Number: 251
Children:
Arthur W Gray, b1897, Northleach
Beatrice L Gray, b1900, Northleach (1901) or Farmington (1911)
Norah Ellen Gray, b 1903, Abercarn, Monmouthshire
Frederick & Elizabeth have apparently been married for 14 years.
HOWEVER:
I can't find a marriage?
And I can't find any birth registrations for the children?
So, what was Elizabeth's surname?!
I bet the answer is staring me in the face, but it's really annoying! ;D
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I knew this would happen!
Just found Beatrice's Birth:
GRAY, BEATRICE LOTTIE BLACKWELL
GRO Reference: 1899 D Quarter in NORTHLEACH Volume 06A Page 411
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Hi
Yes, the man lodging with them in 1911 is her brother is it not ?
Saw them in 1891 and noticed the three year age gap and wondered if that was the case, but you beat me to an answer
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Having just found her surname . . . Yes, of course :D
I've also found:
Arthur William Blackwell
June qtr 1896
Northleach Registration District
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Is this their marriage?
Marriages Dec 1896
Blackwell Elizabeth Pontypridd 11a 894
Gray Frederick George Pontypridd 11a 894
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I think it will be ;D
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Nice one! I was still looking in Gloucestershire! :-[
Also found:
December qtr 1902
Newport Reg. District
Gray, Norah Ellen
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Could this be the marriage? Names on the same page, right time scale.
Marriages Dec 1896
Blackwell Elizabeth
Gray Frederick George
Pontypridd 11a 894
Whoops - sorry I missed Carol's post. ::)
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Whoops - sorry I missed Carol's post. ::)
We're so efficient here Groom,even though it is bedtime ;D
I was a little worried why they'd marry in Pontypridd when they were still in Glos having kids?
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Like I said - the answers were all there, but I couldn't see them!
So, I wholeheartedly agree - time for bed! ;D
Found Norah on FreeBMD - but not on GRO?
Carol - I think the marriage was "away from home" because of the illegitimate birth of Arthur?
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Still a long way to go to get married, why not just go somewhere else in Gloucestershire. I wonder if they had any connection with Wales as Norah's birth was registered there?
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At that time, the coal mines in South Wales were recruiting - I have people on my mother's aside that moved to the Welsh Valleys from Wiltshire & Kent, to work in the mines!
Part of the Gray family moved to the Tintern area (where my F-i-L was born).
His father was born in Northleach, while uncles and aunts were born in Oxfordshire.
His grandfather and siblings were born in Teignmouth, Devon!
Many of the family ended up in the South Wales valleys, or the Forest of Dean (1920s).
So maybe not so surprising?
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Gloucestershirebmd has
BLACKWELL Arthur W : 1896 - Northleach, Bibury (Blank for Mother's Former Name, which usually means the mother was unmarried ***
BLACKWELL Elizabeth - mother's maiden name VINCENT : 1878, Cirencester, Northleach Bibury
1891 Census, Northleach, Glos
Charles BLACKWELL, Coal Merchant, Haulier, born Glos, Farmington
Susannah - 37 born Leicestershire, Plungar
Herbert E - 9 born Glos Northleach
Elizabeth 12 - born Glos Northleach
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Family tree online
Charles BLACKWELL/Susannah VINCENT
Herbert Edward BLACKWELL died June 1948 Caerleon, Monmouthshire
Probate
BLACKWELL Herbert Edward : of 68 Gwyddon Road, Abercarn, Monmouthshire, died 5 April 1948.
Adminstration Llandaff 7 May to Constance Emma Dorcas BLACKBALL, Widow
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Now that the family I originally posted on are sorted, I have a problem further back!
Martin Gray married Mary Fowler on 29th May 1834 in Broadwell, Oxfordshire.
Children:
Mark, 1836, East Teignmouth, Devon (died 1837)
Elizabeth, 1837, East Teignmouth
Maria, 1841 East Teignmouth
Emily, 1842, East Teignmouth
William Martin, 1844, East Teignmouth
John Mark, 1845, East Teignmouth
Ellen, 1846, East Teignmouth
Hannah/Anna, 1848, East Teignmouth
The 1841 census has the family in East Teignmouth.
Class: HO107; Piece: 220; Book: 11; Folio: 13; Page: 21
On May 29th 1849, Ellen & Anna are baptised in Broadwell, Oxfordshire.
The abode of the parents is "Father's unknown; Mother's the Lunatic Asylum, Littlemore".
The children are on the 1851 census as paupers and lodgers in Broadwell, with Robert and Mary Greenhalf.
Class: HO107; Piece: 1731; Folio: 688; Page: 9
I guess that Mary, at least, is from Broadwell?
And I have no idea where Martin is from!
Anyone have any clues?
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Marriage on Ancestry
Martin GRAY to Mary FOWLER 29 May 1834, Broadwell, Oxfordshire
witnesses:
(best guess)
Jos Raymond HENSBERGH (James R HENSBERGH - on later census returns)
Elizabeth HENSBERGH
Transcript sent to COURT (think this is what is says)
The marriage entry underneath of another couple a few weeks later, also says, transcript sent to Court.
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Looking at the 1841 census for Martin & Mary GRAY in Teignmouth, they both state they were not born in the Country - and there is a tick in the column which is headed, Where born, Scotland, Ireland or Foreign Parts and there is a tick for both of them.
East Teignmouth, Devon and quite close, HO107 220 12 (there is Sophia GRAY, daughter Sophia Eliza GRAY - again born in either Scotland, Ireland or Foreign parts & Elizabeth Jane Jnr aged 15.
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Ancestry Lunatic admission records
Mary GRAY admitted 19 April 1849 Oxford and Sarah GRAY - 16 May 1849 Oxford
1851 census for Littleworth
Transcribed as GREEN - but faint surname and looks like GRAY
Mary GRAY aged 39 - Widow (no place of birth)
1861 census for Littleworth
Mary GRAY aged 49 - place of birth Broadwell
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On May 29th 1849, Ellen & Anna are baptised in Broadwell, Oxfordshire.
The abode of the parents is "Father's unknown; Mother's the Lunatic Asylum, Littlemore".
Ancestry Lunatic admission records
Mary GRAY admitted 19 April 1849 Oxford and Sarah GRAY - 16 May 1849 Oxford
OFHS has transcribed many of the discharge records from the Oxfordshire County Lunatic Asylum at Littlemore. These are not available online.
Mary GRAY was first admitted on 19 April 1849. She was among a group of patients discharged to Worcester County Lunatic Asylum at Powick on 6 January 1864.
Sadly this record doesn't state her age, where she was from, why she was admitted, or whether she underwent treatment continuously between 1849-64. Her medical records, if they weren't transferred with her to Powick, should be at the Oxfordshire History Centre (OHC) as per this link: http://www.oxfordshirehealtharchives.nhs.uk/hospitals/littlemore_hospital.htm
There might be a bit more info on the OFHS CD, but I'm going out shortly so will have a look later. In the meantime, maybe someone could verify Capetown's interpretation of the 1841 birthplaces.
Carol
P.S. One of my rellies was in Littlemore, in fact he died there, and the predecessors of OHC emailed his records to me for an admin fee (£10?) plus £1 per page - bargain :D
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Looking at the 1841 census for Martin & Mary GRAY in Teignmouth, they both state they were not born in the Country - and there is a tick in the column which is headed, Where born, Scotland, Ireland or Foreign Parts and there is a tick for both of them.
East Teignmouth, Devon and quite close, HO107 220 12 (there is Sophia GRAY, daughter Sophia Eliza GRAY - again born in either Scotland, Ireland or Foreign parts & Elizabeth Jane Jnr aged 15.
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Ancestry Lunatic admission records
Mary GRAY admitted 19 April 1849 Oxford and Sarah GRAY - 16 May 1849 Oxford
1851 census for Littleworth
Transcribed as GREEN - but faint surname and looks like GRAY
Mary GRAY aged 39 - Widow (no place of birth)
1861 census for Littleworth
Mary GRAY aged 49 - place of birth Broadwell
The enumerator for that 1841 census has placed a tick in the last column for all those people NOT born in County?!
The entry in the penultimate column looks to be "N".
Thank you both for the info re Littleworth - very helpful ;D
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Records for Worcester County Lunatic Asylum, Powick state:
Patient No: 1477 Gray, Mary Age 52, Female, Married Occupation: Pauper
Admitted: 6th Jan 1864, abode: Littleworth Lunatic Asylum
Disorder: Mania Chronic
Discharged: 1st October 1870 Recovered
The search webpage is: http://theinfirmary.educationhost.co.uk/Search.php
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When Martin GRAY married Mary - they both signed the register with the names.
When 'zooming in' on Mary's writing - the surname starts with an F and the second letter looks like an 'a' as it joins the next letter 'w' and the bottom and not the 'top'. Ancestry has transcribed the surname as FAWLAV as the signature trails off at the end. ? is the surname FOWLER or FAWLER/FAWLES
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It looks like Fowler to me ;D
And the GRO Indexes all show Fowler as the Mother's Maiden Name for the children'a Birth Registrations I can find.
Incidentally, the only Martin Gray I can find is one born 1808 and baptised at Medmenham, Buckinghamshire?
He can't be found on any census, and his age would fit the 1841 census?
It's not conclusive; but may be the right Martin? :-\
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Marriage on Ancestry
Martin GRAY to Mary FOWLER 29 May 1834, Broadwell, Oxfordshire
witnesses:
(best guess)
Jos Raymond HENSBERGH (James R HENSBERGH - on later census returns)
Elizabeth HENSBERGH
James Raymond Hensburgh widower married Elizabeth Franklin spinster at Oxford St Aldates on 7 Sep 1829. James is a gamekeeper on his sons Robert, Frederick and Matthew's baptism records. On 1871 census, the family is in Derbyshire, James is a huntsman and his son Matthew is a gamekeeper.
As Martin Gray was a male servant in 1841 and an Ostler on the baptism record of the two daughters, it may be that he and James Hensburgh were servants at the same big house - possibly Mary Fowler as well.
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Incidentally, the only Martin Gray I can find is one born 1808 and baptised at Medmenham, Buckinghamshire?
He can't be found on any census, and his age would fit the 1841 census?
This Martin's parents were Mark and Maria, names that your Martin gave to his children. Mark was also the second name of his son John, so clearly an important name to him.
James raymond Hensbergh was from Hambledon only a couple of miles from Medmenham.
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Mark Gray married Maria Lovelock in Hambledon on 15 Nov 1806
Added
mark was buried at medmenham in Dec 1808, only a few month's after martin's birth
He may be the one bapt in Medmenham on 2nd on 9th Feb 1777(depending on transcript) s/o Abraham and Mary.
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I think Abraham married Mary Church in Medmenham on 5 oct 1767
and was buried there on 23 Mar 1826 age 81
possible bapt 19 Sep 1744 s/o Charles and Eleanor Gray
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??
There is a Tree on Ancestry
Maria GRAY - birth 1781, Buckinghamshire England
Death: April 1855, Horsemonger Lane Gaol, Bethnal Green, London
Husband : Daniel DAVIES 1779-1849
14 May 1822 aged 41 @ Hambleden, Buckinghamshire : Birth of Son, Mark DAVIS (1779-1849) died July 1849, London Middlesex
Daniel DAVIES married Maria GRAY - 27 October 1798, Medmenham, Bucks
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Could be related, but I can't find a baptism for Maria. She and Daniel had quite a lot of children, first one bapt at Medmenham, the others at Hambledon. The first son is called Abraham.
In 1841 they are living in Hambledon with some of their children and Joseph and Emma who are probably grandchildren. Joseph and Emma are with their son Mark Davis in 1851 listed as nephew and niece.
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Going back to Mary's time in Oxfordshire County Lunatic Asylum - to avoid confusing any future readers of this thread, I should have reiterated that the location was LITTLEMORE in Oxfordshire, not Littleworth which was in Berkshire until 1974.
Carol