RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: brigidmac on Wednesday 19 April 17 10:50 BST (UK)
-
William Grundy was a mariner on Sumatra aged 63 in 1869 leaving Liverpool
I have found him on another crew lists which confirms his age and also states he was born in Falmouth
I'm presuming this is the same William Grundy given as father occupation mariner
on both daughters Sarah Grundy and Anne Grundy (1847 and 1850 marriage certificates )
I can't find him anywhere else ...
His wife Sarah is listed age 36 in 1941 as Ind.
Living with Healey family whose son's Edward and George would be the respective groom's of her daughter's in Toxteth Liverpool.
I can't find William Grundy.,s marriage to Sarah
Or birth of daughter Sarah who according to all censuses( 1851-1901 )was born in London abt 1823:
Daughter Ann was born in Liverpool 1830
i cant find the teenage Grundy girls in 1841 on ancestry searches
And cant find William from birth in Falmouth to death he was discharged from ship in Oct 1869 if it was health reasons maybe he didn't make it to 1871 census
Fresh eyes appreciated
-
I did find one William Grundy seaman living in Stoke Golding 1841 Leicester
with Mary Grundy aged 60 head and Ann age 30 mother and sis ?
But can't find any connection
-
Maybe Sarah and William Grundy did not marry and she just assumed his name
So her daughter's could have been born under different names .
Sarah Grundy junior also is a mystery ...
..Her marriage to Edward Healey was 1847 but on 1851 census their daughter Mary Ann is aged 8 !
I cant find any birth or baptism for a Mary Ann Grundy or Healey or name variations around 1843
Information on both women after. 1851 is abundant and both lived into their 80.s
Some refs to the Healey's is on this thread
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=709529.msg5528843#msg5528843
-
Birth
March 1843 West Derby vol 20 pg 898
Mary Ann Healy - mother's maiden name Grundy
-
I know you have Sarah in 1841 - do you have her anywhere else?
Just something to think about:
Lancs OPC shows 3 baptisms at St Peter's Liverpool.
22nd July 1827 - two children Sarah and Ann. Parents William and Harriet. William is a mariner.
1929 - William Grundy - same parents but William is a warehouse man.
1827 marriage William Grundy and Harriet Northeast.
-
Wow well done Heywood .
....No i haven't found Sarah anywhere else maybe she was Sarah Harriet or a totally different Sarah
Grundy .....
But could it be a coincidence that she was living with future husbands of William Grundy.s daughters ?
all the censuses show daughter Mary Ann as born in London ? But i baptism at Liverpool fits in
Back to drawing board
I.ll look at the censuses for a William or Harriet Grundy again i remember seeing some with ason William .I think the proffession was Cartwright
-
I did find a William in the workhouse in 1841 in Walton on the Hill.
-
He could have had different proffession
his ship records were
1868.age 62 time on board 24 hours .. discharged
1869 age 63 may to October. Cook ....... discharged
-
IT was Young William in the workhouse. It might not be your family at all- just coincidence perhaps but worth noting.
-
I've just found that William junior aged 12 in the workhouse in Walton on the hill West derby (posted at same time )
Further down page is a George Grundy age 9
There are so many censuses with William Grundy on ....I haven't refound the ones with Harriet
-
There's also a William Gurney indentured in merchant navy in Oct 1844 also a good candidate for junior
-
Another William Grundy is a cordwinder age 22 a visitor of the Rick family at new street liverpool
I haven't found Harriet/Sarah Grundy b1805 or earlier on any 1851 census or a death for her .
And no appropriate William Grundy senior in other censuses
The banns for William Grundy and Harriet Northeast were 26 Jan 1827 St Nicholas Liverpool
Thanks for Mary Ann Healey's birth.... Heywood
So definitely 3 or 4 years before her parents marriage
-
There are several naval court records.medals honours list and pensions but for William Grundy .
Need Fold to access
Ages not given so father or son Could feature on these lists
No Grundy seems to be born in Falmouth 1906 ..So ship records don't tally .....
-
I found daughter Sarahs baptism 22/07/1827 # Ann.s was further up on same page
William and Harriet were living on New Bird street
According to various census Sarah was born between 1822 and 1825
.
Ann born 1827- this would mean Sarah born before parents wedding.(if it is the correct father )
Still no sign of Sarah aged approx 18 and Ann 14 in 1841
Possible death of Harriet in 1839 in Clitheroe which would explain why not coming up in any census
.And why 12 year old son in workhouse.
-
There is a Harriet Grundy aged 40 in 1841
Probably not ours as it's in Berkshire and she's listed as born in county
But it's interesting because she seems to be living in a rectory as F S ( female servant)
Page before has a schoolmistress and a long list of young people aged 20 to 8yrs
So i guess it doubles as a school
-
George Grundy baptised 1832 parents Harriet and William Grundy labourer king Street
George in Walton on hill workhouse age 9 1941
1951 he's in prison aged 19 occupation shoemaker
May be related
Sarah Grundy died age 8 July 1836 in workhouse ......No other details
-
Harriet Grundy died 6th July 1836 in the workhouse so perhaps not your Grundys.
-
That fits perfectly
She could have died in childbirth ....George may well have been born in workhouse
-
I've posted in occupation s general question about merchant navy apprentices
There is a William Grundy enrolling Oct 1844 for 4 years age 15
And one or two different George Grundys in 1846 and 1847.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=769976.msg6225405#msg6225405
I thougt the mariner connection was a a good indication that these were children of our 'ancient mariner'William Grundy
But my mother thinks the Walton on the hill workhouse may have specialised in turning out sailors
We know the Kirkdale workhouse trained children in tailoring at that time
L
-
That fits perfectly
She could have died in childbirth ....George may well have been born in workhouse
I thought it fitted until you found the death of a young Sarah who would fit with the baptism :-\
-
Could this be George Grundy history or two different people
Born 1832 in workouse
in workhouse aged 9 1841
1846 committing larceny aged 14 3 weeks prison
1846 age 15 merchant navy apprentice liverpool deserted at London 6/11/1848 cancelled by mutual consent 14/12'/48 liverpool
1847 Jan age 16 Liverpool left 18/01/1848
1851 age 19 in prison occupation shoemaker
1871 George 40 widower with Eliz 9 Alex 4. Occupation porter and general ...... Illegible
1881 widow shoemaker with daughter Eliza 20 and son Alex 18
1893 age 63 west Yorks courts " rogues and vagabonds" is the crime Liverpool 12th Feb
1901 widower age 71 marine fireman
There were a few other petty sessions that i didn't check
I need to go back .cross referencing all the addresses
It's so addictive he's not a direct relatives and may not even belong on this tree but a fascinating fellow
I need to find his wife's name and their marriage
-
You.re right Heywood
if Sarah daughter of William and Harriet died in workhouse
Can't be the same Sarah Grundy who married Edward Healey
Having a sister called Ann and a father called William as the only definite clues we have to identity
-
Hi workhouse Sarah death doesn't fit exactly because if she was 8 in 1836 she would have been born 1828 after the July 1827 baptism
I've been trolling thru baptisms and christenings for a Sarah Grundy b around 1823 with mother Sarah pages and pages but by search parameters won't show me London ones .....Don't know what I'm doing wrong
..I tried leaving William off too in case he is an invented father
Harriet is a less common names and does occur in later generations so i.m hoping she is the correct mother
Could she be Harriet Sarah Grundy. ? Nee ? So on ,1841 census as Sarah 36 with the Healey family ??
-
There is a possibility for Harriet Grundy aged 46 1851
In little Heaton Lancashi
She is listed as sister to Alice Grundy they are all cotton loom weavers
Or Sarah Grundy aged 48 who is listed as neice
Very difficult to read as census has been damaged look s like fire
-
Heywood
I double checked workhouse
Harriet who died in workhouse seems to have been age 21 the lady below is aged 36
Little Sarah on same page looks more like Greening than Grundy
A
-
How about this record .
William Sharp alias Grundy April 1820 age 20
Committed a felony whilst ship moored at Chatham
I'm not sure what happened to him ..N S A 25th SEPT
-
I have been searching 1841 - it is odd that there is no sign of Sarah and Ann. :-\
-
Thanks Heywood
They were old enough to be working
Could they have been using a different surname ?
If they are the children of Harriet and William Grundy could they also have been in some kind of institution
-
I only have age 62 for the William Grundy mariner on ship 1869 born in Falmouth
Wonder if that could be Farnworth Lancs ? As there is a William Grundy at King street Farnworth in 1851. He's a labourer
There is a William Grundy convicted for warehouse breaking in 1838 10 years transportation to NSW
-
How about 1841 Flat street Bury lancs
Living with publican
Mary Grundy /Grandy age 50
Sarah age 20
Ann 14
And other children Eliza 12 Jane 10
-
Do you think the Sarah Grundy living with the Healey's in 1841 could actually have shaved 10 years off her age and married Edward Healey ? After having Mary Ann with him ...?
Still doesn't explain where 14 year old Ann Grundy was
Maybe she was actually Sarah.s daughter not sister !
* Oops ....She.d have to have shaved 20 years off to be 26 in 1851 .....ditzy moment too many late night Grundy hunts I think .
-
There is a baptism
Sarah Grundy Oct 1827 single mother Mary Grundy Ringley lancs
Could this be same lady as publican in Bury with our missing Sarah and Ann .
If i assume William and Harriet s Sarah and Ann are not ours then i also have to find them in other censuses for elimination
Am in awe of people who can post documents or clippings and order their findings coherently
Am surrounded by Grundy notes on papers and trying to link families
Have eliminated the cotton dyers weavers and mechanics
Looking for links between the mariners and publicans with the Healey family
-Will attempt A summary when I've checked a few facts and looked for places on map can't find Ringley lancs.
-
Summary
I now believe that William Grundy named as father on
Sarah and Anne Grundy .s wedding papers to Edward and George HEALEY
NOT the same mariner as
William Grundy mariner who married Harriet Northeast 1827
He is based in Liverpool wedding and children's baptism s
Sarah and Ann baptised July 1827 occ. Mariner
William 1829. Occ warehouse man
George 1832. Occ labourer
By 1841 his sons were in workhouse
I don't know what became of HIS daughters and wife Harriet .
But son William followed a mariner career ... died at sea 1883
Son george had a criminal career for a while
Was William Grundy the elder prosecuted for felony in 1831
Or sent to NSW in 1838 for ten years
There is a case of warehouse breaking in Cheshire in 1849 fits with his occupation in 1832
..William Grundy sentenced to ten years
OUR William Grundy may not have been based in Liverpool at all !
He may not have legally married his daughters' mother
censuses show elder daughter Sarah was been born in LONDON 1821-1823
Which makes her a bit old to be daughter of Sarah Grundy aged 36 in 1841 tho not impossible
If Sarah Grundy was not the mother what is her connection to Healey family in 1841
Daughter
Daughter Ann from census born between 1828 and 1830
Too late to be on the 1827 baptisms !
Our William may be the mariner from LEICESTERSHIRE
Age 35 staying with his mother Mary aged 60 and siblings in 1841
He could be the 63 year old mariner cook who turns up in 1868 B Falmouth
William Grundy of king street Farnsworth lancs. Aged 51 in 1851 labourer
wife Ellen age 38
Mary 19 .James 18 .Mary Ann 14 + others
I keep doing the same searches
I.ve just learnt to use the shoe box function on ancestry so i can save records which are possibles
-
Have been told there was a John Grundy age 23 b1818 Falmouth Cornwall merchant seaman records 1835-1857 could be a brother to Falmouth william
-
Sadly, I can't see anything of any help. :(
-
Thanks for trying I keep finding things that don't quite fit
Found a Sarah Grundy on her own in 1841 with Edward Savile engineer
family ashton under-Lyme
only 10 so too young to be ours
Interestingly their 9 year old daughterGrace Savile is down as being a piercer
It's the youngest I've seen working her 15 year old sister is a cotonweaver
-
On GR a record is showing for
British army records of a private in 2nd division lifeguards ....Is that the same as lifeguards in swimming pools or a totally different meaning .?
Birth 1807 fits with our sailor and birthplace Worseley is between Farnmouth and Salford Lancashire
-
The Lifeguards are a very important regiment :)
http://www.army.mod.uk/28088.aspx
I am not sure about looking to Farnworth etc. Those records re William show Falmouth.
-
Thanks Heywood you.re a mine of reliable information
I.m on a detective hunch now and trying to find a connection though Berwick name
It looks like on of the possible Sarah Grundy s married a William Berwick in 1828 ( after births of Sarah and Ann Grundy 1822 and 1827 )
I didn't see any connections
But there is a post about Heeley/Healey's
Sarah's Son in laws sister
Martha Healey married john Jackson Berwick in 1864 at Walton on the hill .. # Beswick
He was a wheelwright in 1861 with father Timothy Berwick a baker in Everton #Beswick
Looking for the missing link now I'm sure wheelwrights came up in one search as did Worsely
-
The link to the Healey post ....Sorry i thought id posted it already
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=709529.msg5528843#msg5528843
-
The wheelwright connection was
A Will : 19 march 1856
William Grundy to Sarah Grundy widow and Mary gee Grundy spinster daughter
Don't know how old this William was ..I believe there are 3 generations of lancashire William Grundy one fought in the Napoleonic wars
There is also William Grundy shipwright married to Isabella baptising their daughter Sarah in 1822
-
A couple of outside chances you may not have considered:
Marriage at Cheadle 4 Jan 1824 William Grundey & Sarah Brown. Both OTP & no occupations stated. Wits John James & Henry Smith
1847, Marriage at Liverpool, Register Office or Registrar Attended – John Foster & Sarah Grundy.
1851 Census, Liverpool Street, Eccleston (all born Sutton)
John Foster 56 Farmer
Sarah Foster 46 Wife
John Foster 20 Stone Mason
There is also a younger couple named John & Sarah Foster in 1851, but I think her maiden name was Neill / O'Neil
-
Thanks jomot. ...I.m now led to believe The William named as father mariner on the girls marriage records was actually William Grundy and third mother was called Mary not Sarah ......The bishops transcript of 1828 had mistranscribed the name on parish register it is Mary
So i need to re organise notes and work backwards again bhopefully all the research on William and Sarah Grundy and the children of William and Harriet Northeast with same first names will come in useful for other researchers
-
Mistake in last post
I mean William Beswick was Mary Grundy.s husband
I can't afford to spend money on these girls birth certificates especially as we may not have the right ones .Mum wants me to concentrate on her grandmother by birth not the adoptive mary ann nee Healey
so am doing detective work around where they or and their mother may have lived in 1841.
george Healey was a witness on and Sarah Grundy on Edward and Mary Ann's wedding
And the married siblings were in turn witnesses they were living in Toxteth
-
I can't afford to spend money on these girls birth certificates especially as we may not have the right ones .Mum wants me to concentrate on her grandmother by birth not the adoptive mary ann nee Healey
So who is your mother's grandmother, and what do you definitely know about her?
When you say "the adoptive mary ann nee Healey" do you mean the one born 1843 that Heywood found? If so why do you think she is adopted, and what is her relationship to the person you are trying to research?
Unfortunately sometimes the only way to positively follow the person you are researching may be to buy one or two certificates of potentially connected people as its the only way to establish facts.
At the moment - from this and your other posts – you seem to be chasing random people called Mary, William or Sarah, so £9.25 spent on a certificate could save you a lot of wasted time & effort.
-
She is on 1901 as boarder and 1911 as adoptive daughter of samual Hallis and Mary ann nee Healey
And my mother used to visit their daughter aunt Harriet (Martha) Harriet Healey Evans Cookson
Her birth mother was Charlotte Roberts ..and birth father was George Jacob Fellman
We have the a affiliation order and have traced him
And believe we may have found Lottie as an actress in 1901 and 1906 using various aliaseses.
The post about looking for birth mother is now 15 pages long on Cheshire board
-
OK got it - http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=702286.0
So the Mary Ann Healy born 1843 MMN Grundy, is potentially Mary Ann Hallis - adoptive mother of your Great Grandmother.
I will have a read of the full thread.
-
Yes Mary Ann Hallis was born Healey and her mother was definitely Sarah Grundy Healey married to Edward
But Sarah Grundy probably isn't the daughter of this mariner
Thanks so much for your interest .
The Healey post was started by someone looking for Edward Healey Sprite mother Martha Lloyd
( I've put the other potential father William Beswick on a separate topic as it's too convoluted )
Will come back to this research when i have time to unravel the place names
Also my tree on ancestry needs sorting out as i now have two sons for mariner william and Sarah Grundy