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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Angus (Forfarshire) => Topic started by: dorothy taylor on Monday 24 April 17 20:19 BST (UK)
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Can anyone advise where to get more information on a boarded out child in 1911 to Benvie Farm Cottage with a Margaret McDougal please. Alice was my grandmother
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Hello Dottymay, and welcome to RootsChat.
We are quite a helpful bunch here, but we do need a little more information before we can get stuck into your query.
I assume that you have found her in the census, but you must have more information than that. How old was she in 1911? Where does the census say she was born? Whom, when and where did she marry? Have you seen her marriage certificate? Where and when did she die? Have you seen her death certificate? What else do you know about Alice already?
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Hi there. Welcome to RootsChat :)
Where was your grandmother Alice born? Many children, specially from big cities such as Glasgow were boarded out to farming families at this time. Lots of different family circustances were behind the decisions for these children to be boarded out, for a number of years in many cases. Many never went back to family and remained living in the area they were sent to board.
Monica
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Hello welcome to the boards
....My grandmother was also boarded out then informally adopted
Good luck with your search ...You never know what you may find ...we actually discoverd her birth father but couldn't work out what became of the mother .
On the census does it give her place of birth ..That may come in useful .
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Thank you for your replies, I'm new to this but here is the info I have to date:-
I did find her on the 1911 census.
Alice Fraser, born 8/2/1900 at 51 Castle Street, Glasgow, to Charles Simon Fraser and Williamina Fraser nee Stewart on 25/11/1892 in The Manse, Lochee, Dundee. She married James Taylor, from Middlesborough on 1/8/1919 jn Dundee and was divorced from him early 1950's. According to the 1901 census she still lived at 51 Castle Street, Glasgow, with her parents 2 brothers and her twin sister who died in 1902. She died when I was 14 and didn't talk about her family except she always said she had been left on someone's doorstep so I don't know how much she did know about them
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I see from the 1901 that Charles was English, and from births of children, the family seemed to move around, possibly due to his work.
As Charles and Williamina married in Dundee and Alice was later living in Dundee, could her mum have been from there (either born or lived)? The 1901 transcript I looked at, unfortunately doesn't note the mum's birthplace. Who were listed as Williamina's parents on the marriage certificate? What address did she give as residence at the time?
Benvie Farm itself had a Thoms family there in 1901, and beyond. Perhaps the cottage Alice was in at 1911, was one 'tied' to workers on their estate.
Could Margaret McDougal have been a relative of Williamina Stewart?
Did Alice list her parents as deceased at time of her marriage, or were they still living?
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What were the brothers names and ages ? We're they also boarded out in 1911 ?
Have you found deaths for Charles and Wilhelmina yet !
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Thank you for your replies, I'm new to this but here is the info I have to date:-
According to the 1901 census she still lived at 51 Castle Street, Glasgow, with her parents 2 brothers and her twin sister who died in 1902.
You seem to have Alice's birth and marriage and date of death, and both the available census records. So what, specifically, were you originally looking for when you said Can anyone advise where to get more information on a boarded out child
in your original post?
Can you tell us the birthplaces of everyone in the household in 1901? I see from the index that there were Charles, 25; Williamina, 25; William, 8: Charles, 7; Alice, 1; and Williamina, 1. Did I miss some other children between Charles and Alice? Could there have been one or two other children who died in infancy?
I assume you mean that Charles and Williamina were married in Lochee in 1892. Do you have that marriage certificate? What else does it tell you? What were the names of their parents?
If Alice was born in Glasgow and boarded out in Liff and Benvie, it may be that the boarding out was arranged by the Glasgow Parochial Board, in which case there should be a record of her in the Poor Law archives in the Mitchell Library in Glasgow. See http://www.glasgowfamilyhistory.org.uk/ExploreRecords/Pages/Poor-Law.aspx for information about these records, which are not available online. Also http://www.glasgowfamilyhistory.org.uk/DiscoverLearn/GettingStarted/Documents/PoorLaw_web.pdf
William and Charles junior may also have been boarded out, but by 1911 they would both have been old enough to earn their own living. The Poor Law records should also mention them if they were boarded out.
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Thank you all for your help
On Alice's marriage certificate her parents are listed as deceased.
Charles and Williamina's marriage certificate list:-
Charles Simon Fraser, 17 Larch Street Dundee, Father: Frederick Augustus Fraser, Mother: Margaret Fraser, nee Kin???? can't read it, deceased
Williamina Stewart, Logie Brae, Lochee Road Dundee, Father: James Stewart deceased, Mother: Elspeth Stewart nee Young.
Do not know anything about Alice's siblings or if she was boarded from Glasgow or Dundee. Is there any way to check all children born to a couple.
I cannot find anything about Charles and Williamina after the 1901 census, no death nothing on 1911 census, they seem to have disappeared.
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An online tree seems to have a Williamina Stewart, daughter of James Stewart and Elspeth Young, marrying in Glasgow on 30th November 1908, to a Donald Cameron Fulton. The marriage was a second one for Donald, and, if same Williamina (based on her parents names), obviously her second too. The certificate should confirm if she was widowed.
Update:
a quick check of the free index and the marriage (St Rollox District) is indeed indexed under Williamina Stewart and Williamina Fraser.
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Williamina Fulton previously Fraser nee Stewart looks to have died in Dumbarton area in 1951.
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Hi ,
There is a death for a Charles Simon Fraser age 80 , 1973 Dumbarton , 505/ 322.
Could he be the son aged 7 on the 1901 Census ?
ev
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Hmmm. No evidence of a marriage of Frederick Augustus Fraser to Margaret in Scotland, England or Wales. There are two deaths of Frederick Augustus Fraser in Scotland. One aged 0, and one in 1866.
So neither of those can be the father of Charles Simon Fraser, who was aged 25 in 1901. Or was he? If he was 25 in 1901, he would have been about 17 in 1892. That is exceptionally young for a man to marry.
How old does Charles' marriage certificate say he was? What was his occupation?
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There is a death for a Charles Simon Fraser age 80 , 1973 Dumbarton , 505/ 322.
Could he be the son aged 7 on the 1901 Census ?
He could. There is a birth of Charles Simon Fraser in Dundee in 1893.
I have already asked what were the birthplaces of all the family according to the 1901 census? At least two people have looked at that census, and must therefore have that information.
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I know nothing about Alice's siblings but if Williamina married a Fulton and died in Dumbarton and Charles Fraser died in Dumbarton it is possible.
Charles was 19 when he married in 1892 and his father Frederick was a baker, Charles was a Jute Factory worker
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Have found Charles Simon Fraser junior 12/10/1893 in Dundee not Glasgow
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Industrial Schools names list(Friends of Dundee City Archives)
Charles Fraser , born 12th Oct 1893 Aberdeen(?) , address 38 Horsewater Wynd, Dundee 1st Jul 1903 08/413 , parents Charles Fraser Williamina Fraser.
William Fraser , born 10th Jul 1892 Aberdeen , address 38 Horsewater Wynd, Dundee 1st Jul 1903 08/412 , parents Charles Fraser Williamina Fraser.
http://www.fdca.org.uk/pdf%20files/Industrial%20List%20F.pdf
ev
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I'm amazed at the amount of information you have all furnished me with in such a short time. I am actually a member of the friends of Dundee archive and do volunteer indexing every week on a Tuesday, I will be asking questions there next week to see if I can shed some light on why Alice was boarded out. I wish I knew where you get all of your information, Thank you all
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At least one of the boys was, apparently, born in Dundee. If both brothers were born in Dundee, and placed in the Dundee industrial school in 1903, this might suggest that the family had become a charge on the Dundee rather than the Glasgow Parochial Board. If you are already a volunteer with Dundee City Archives you are in a better position than the rest of us to see if the industrial school records shed any light on the family, and if there are any records of Alice in the Dundee Parochial Board records, assuming of course that these records have survived.
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This may be a reference to brother William in the Royal Navy from possibly as early as 1908:
Name: William Fraser
Birth Date: 1 Jul 1892
Birth Place: Aberdeen
Date: 1908-1955
Service Number: TS 3404
You can pay to view some records for him here http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8571642
Monica
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Forfarian, the 1901 census transcript is showing:
Charles Fraser 25 Pipe Track Labourer b. Portsmouth
Williamina Fraser 25 born (South?) America Brazil
William Fraser 8 b. Aberdeen
Charles Fraser 7 b. Glasgow
Alice Fraser 13 months b. Glasgow
Williamina Fraser 13 Months b. Glasgow
Address: 51 Castle St, Glasgow/St Rollox
Monica
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Thanks, Monica. Portsmouth and Brazil, eh? Quite an advance on 'he was English' and no information about her.
Any mention of Portsmouth immediately makes me wonder about a naval connection. Could he have been 'born in England' rather than 'English', and could his father have been in the Royal Navy?
If he was 19 when he married, he must have been 26 or 27 by the date of the 1901 census, therefore born 1872/1874.
Now into realms of speculation but .... in the 1911 census in Staffordshire there is a Frederick Augustus Fraser, aged 61, Army pensioner, born Inverness, with wife Fanny, to whom he had been married 21 years, and they had no children. There is a marriage of Frederick Fraser to Fanny Bayliss in Walsall in 1890. In 1891 this couple are in Stafford with a 7-year-old son Alfred W, born Hednesford, Staffordshire. Is Alfred the son of Frederick Augustus by a previous marriage? Could he be a brother of Charles Simon? I can't find Frederick Augustus in 1881. Could he have been on an overseas posting? Of course, none of this matches Frederick's occupation of 'baker' from Charles' marriage certificate, but it's not quite impossible. Could he have worked as a baker in the Army?
Dottymay, can you post the part of Charles' marriage certificate that lists his mother's name, to see if we can decipher it?
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Thanks, Monica. Portsmouth and Brazil, eh? Quite an advance on 'he was English' and no information.
As it seems to have been me who stated above, I have looked again and realised that the fuller info was further down the page, but not in the summary. Obviously, I had a rare 'off-day', as I don't usually tend to miss such things, but at least I didn't have such an 'off-day' on the other useful finds I posted.
Isn't it great, though, that on Rootschat, there are many wonderful volunteers, who usually work well together as a 'team', and if one 'misses' something, another usually 'finds' it. After all, it's 'teamwork' that makes Rootschat great and there are none of us perfect.
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Registration District 496: Year: 1947, Page 18, Entry 23
Name: Donald Cameron Fulton (75)
Occupation: Machine Driller (Retired)
Date/Time of Death: 21 January 1947 at 1.55 am
Place of Death: 12 Allan Place, Dumbarton
Cause of Death: Myocarditis as certified by Gerald O'Connor,
M.B.B.Ch.
Father: John Fulton, Trunk Maker (Deceased)
Mother: Jane Fulton (m.s. Cameron) (Deceased)
Informant: Henrietta Fulton (Daughter) (Present)
Date/Place Registered: 21 January 1947, Dumbarton
Registrar: N. McAllister
Marital Status: Married
1) Euphemia MacDonald
2) Williamina Stewart
as found at https://www.ancestry.co.uk/boards/topics.cemetery.uk.scotland.scotland/60.2/mb.ashx
Again, provided it is the correct Williamina, the children to the first marriage of Williamina could have been boarded out/placed in industrial school, simply because the second husband, who already had children by his first wife, would not agree to/could not afford to take responsibility for them.
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Latest, Williamina married Donald Cameron Fulton (36) both 4 Overburn Terrace, Dumbarton and both widowed on 30/11/1908 in Glasgow, she is listed as Housekeeper domestic servant. how do I post a copy of Charles's marriage certificate please
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Charles's marriage certificate
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Margaret's surname looks like Kinnarney to me, but I can't find a remotely possible death for her.
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Adding these references , might help for further research -
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XY1S-GQD
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTJM-725
ev
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Now into realms of speculation but .... in the 1911 census in Staffordshire there is a Frederick Augustus Fraser, aged 61, Army pensioner, born Inverness
1851 Beauly , Kilmorack , Inverness-shire
Frederick A Fraser 29 watchmaker born Campbelton Argyllshire
Catherine Fraser 31 wife b. Logie Angus
Elspet Fraser 9 dau. b. Kircaldy Fife
Margt Fraser 5 dau b. Laurencekirk Kincardineshire
Frederick A Fraser 7m son born Kilmorack Inverness-shire
(FreeCEN)
ev
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We need to find a marriage and/or the death of Frederick Augustus' wife! And of course Charles' birth - I can't find him on either FreeBMD or the GRO index.
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Obviously, I had a rare 'off-day', as I don't usually tend to miss such things, but at least I didn't have such an 'off-day' on the other useful finds I posted.
Isn't it great, though, that on Rootschat, there are many wonderful volunteers, who usually work well together as a 'team', and if one 'misses' something, another usually 'finds' it. After all, it's 'teamwork' that makes Rootschat great and there are none of us perfect.
Scotmum, you are always pretty amazing on an 'off-day'....unlike me when I am tired and completely lose the plot!
And your are right, it is the working together on others' puzzles that makes RC so rewarding and engaging :)
Monica
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Charles and Williamina's marriage certificate list:-
Charles Simon Fraser, 17 Larch Street Dundee, Father: Frederick Augustus Fraser, Mother: Margaret Fraser, nee Kin???? can't read it, deceased
Williamina Stewart, Logie Brae, Lochee Road Dundee, Father: James Stewart deceased, Mother: Elspeth Stewart nee Young.
I can't easily see any children up to 1875 on Family search for James Stewart and wife Elspeth Young. Maybe they left Scotland after their marriage, explaining why Williamina was potentially born abroad?
There is this marriage that might fit for Williamina's parents in 1868 New Hills Aberdeen, https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTJM-725
Monica
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Adding snip from 1892 MC with parents' names for Charles and Williamina. Charles' mother's maiden name is tricky. Can't see anything close to it SP :-\
Charles and Williamina don't seem to have used any obvious naming pattern have they for their children do they. We have I think William 1892 , Charles Simon 1893 , Alice and Williamica 1900 (twins). A few years gap isn't there between Charles Simon and the twins.
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Williamina died 14/2/1951 aged 78 at 12 Allan Place, Dumbarton, notified by her son Charles Fraser, 28 Kilpatrick View, Dumbarton
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Hi Dotty
Were Williamina's parents showing the same as you had on her death cert?
Monica
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Yes exactly the same
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Re the Staffordshire marriage of Frederick Fraser and Fanny Bayliss - Feb 11 1890 Walsall
Frederick is recorded as aged 39, a widower and a saddler. Father is stated to be Frederick Fraser (deceased) a watchmaker. ( Fanny is a 31 year old widow, Father Jeremiah Kitson).
William
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This is still amazing to me, all I had when I started this journey last week was Alice's name and date of birth, now I have a family out there somewhere and a mystery to solve. Wish my dad was alive to tell him all this as he knew nothing either. I cannot thank you all enough.
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There is a pretty detailed service record for a Frederick Fraser b 1849 Inverness - regiment North Staffordshire. Have not read it all but the following may be of interest - on attestation 15 July 1867(age 18 ) calling said to be a baker. He married Margaret McInerney in Limerick 9th July 1872. ... his record is not without blemish!
William
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Ok, November 1873, in Limerick District, an un-named male child born to a Frederick and Margaret Fraser, with Frederick's address as New Barrack and occupation as Private in 64th. Hard to make out Margaret's surname, but certainly does look something similar to McInerney. Her address seems to be Mary Street.
Not seeing a marriage at moment.
I think North Staffordshire Regiment was 64th Foot.
An 1873 birth fits well with Charles' age at marriage.
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That information sounds really promising, where can I look at please
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Army record seems to have Frederick in Porstmouth in 1876. If son was Charles, perhaps Charles thought he was born there, as he perhaps lived there when young.
Army record available to view with a FindMyPast subscription or credits.
Neither birth record nor army record, from what I have read of it so far, mention a middle name for Frederick.
Birth certificate for un-named male Fraser can be viewed for free at www.irishgenealogy.ie via the Civil Index tab.
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Noting that the service record for Frederick Fraser states he was RC there is a Catholic Baptism on SP for a Charles Fraser- parents Frederick Fraser and Margaret McEnerney in Dundee St Andrew's 13 Sept 1902. Birth date given as 3 Nov 1873.
The new Scottish Catholic Records on FindMyPast may also be worth a look - there his birthplace is given as Limerick.
William
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Just checked the Limerick certificate again for un-named Fraser, and it matches for 3rd.
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Millmoor, I have subscribed to findmypast but cannot find any service records other than joining up one, where do I go to find the information you found
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Wow, William and Scotmum, that is great detail on the Fraser side (lucky late baptism for Charles in Dundee!).
Struggle with his death between 1901-08 given wife Williamina's remarriage that you found earlier Scotmum in 1908.
Monica
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Hi Dotty May
When you come to his service record look to the right of the screen - there is an arrow - click on it to scroll. There are quite a few pages!
William
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If it was Charles himself who gave his details in the 1901 in Glasgow, I wonder why he gave his place of birth as Portsmouth, if by his baptism record in 1902, he knew he was born in Limerick.
Is it just a coincide or otherwise, that in 1901, there is also a Charles S Fraser, married, jute mill worker, born Ireland, boarding at Commercial Street , Dundee? No one else listed in household on the transcript.
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Back to Elspeth Stewart nee Young. There is a death on scotlandspeople worth checking, to perhaps rule in/out. It is for an Elspet Stewart or Young (indexed under both) in St Nicholas district, Aberdeen, in 1898 aged 47.
On her second marriage, was Williamina's mum noted as deceased by then?
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Yes on the marriage certificate for Williamina to Donald Fulton, her mother is noted as deceased. Have checked out death certificate and it has her husband as ALexander Stewart. I have found a marriage between Elspet Young (21) and James Stewart (22) on 18/1/1868 at Newhills, Aberdeen. she may have remarried another Stewart but I can't find it
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Spent a couple of hours this morning at the archives where I was given access to the admission book to the Industrial School which gave me a couple more hints. Charles and William were admitted under supervision till the age of 18 for the reason "found wandering". They had only been in Dundee for 3 weeks. William had attended Bishoptown school for 1 year, think that's in Glasgow. Both boys were noted as being born in Aberdeen, which is not correct.
Father's (Charles) age is given as 32 born Inverness. Mother (Williamina) aged 28 Born BRAZIL.
I suppose Brazil is not beyond the realm of possibility as on her marriage certificate her father is listed as a steamship stoker.
My gran always said she was found on a doorstop, maybe found wandering is where that story came from
Unfortunately they do not have any records from the Dundee Parochial Board to see what happened to Alice but I suspect that it was at this time she was "boarded" out because of her age ( 3 years)
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Does the admissions register say when they were found wandering or admitted?
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They were admitted 1/7/1903
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Someone posted earlier re Williamina being born in Brazil that she found out from the census but then thought it was a mistake, where had they found this information please
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Yes on the marriage certificate for Williamina to Donald Fulton, her mother is noted as deceased. Have checked out death certificate and it has her husband as ALexander Stewart. I have found a marriage between Elspet Young (21) and James Stewart (22) on 18/1/1868 at Newhills, Aberdeen. she may have remarried another Stewart but I can't find it
Who registered the death of the Elspet in St Nicholas district? It is always a possibility that the person doing so, gave incorrect information.
An Elspet Stuart, born Fyvie, Aberdeen, aged 32, head, dressmaker, married is in the 1881 census at St Nicholas district, Aberdeen with daughter Williamina Stuart, aged 8, listed as born South America and another daughter, Ann Stuart, aged 1, listed as born Glasgow. There is another female boarding with the family.
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Elspet died age 47 in the east poorhouse, Aberdeen. Her sister in law, Margaret Young registered the death
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The boarder in 1881 with the Stuart household was a Janet McKay, aged 36, cloth cutter. Now, coincidence or otherwise, but I'll post it here anyhow, just in case, as it turned up when searching for an American born Williamina (and variations) in Scotland, without using surname:
in 1891, Inverness, there is a household with the head an Isabella MacKay and including two 16yr old American born daughters, one of whom is named Williamina MacKay.
This could be a red herring, but at this stage, anything and everything is worth checking.
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Think it may be a long shot, but coincidentally my maternal gggrandmother is Isabella McNeil or Mckay from Stirling
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What parents names were listed for the Elspet who died in St Nicholas district?
There is a potential 1851 and 1861 census to match the Elspet Stuart of the 1881 census.
It is an Elspet Young, born Fyvie, 1849. In the 1851, she is at home with her widowed father Alexander Young and various siblings, including a brother, Gordon. In 1861, she and Gordon are working away from home, but in the same household.
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father Alexander, farm servant, mother Ann nee summers
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father Alexander, farm servant, mother Ann nee summers
Then the Elspet of the St Nicholas district death, also looks to have been born at Fyvie:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01k07/
and had a, what seems to be, twin brother, Gordon (amongst other siblings, who also seem to match the 1851 census).
Have you checked the 1868 James Stewart to Elspet Young marriage to see what parent names are listed on that?
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Someone posted earlier re Williamina being born in Brazil that she found out from the census but then thought it was a mistake, where had they found this information please
scotmum posted from a transcription that Charles was English
See http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=770210.msg6228577#msg6228577
Monica looked at another transcription and posted that Williamina was born in Brazil. See http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=770210.msg6229218#msg6229218
Then scotmum realised that (uncharacteristically) she hadn't noticed the place of birth information further down the page
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=770210.msg6229483#msg6229483
So no-one has actually said anything about Williamina not being born in Brazil.
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They were admitted 1/7/1903
I take it that means 1 July 1903 (UK style) rather than 7 July 1903 (US style). So would it be reasonable to suppose that the parents had separated or otherwise encountered disaster by 1 July 1903?
Then it would also be logical that Alice, aged just 3, would have been boarded out at the same time?
Who registered the death of Alice's twin Williamina in 1902? If it was Charles, we know that he was alive when Williamina Jr died. If it was not Charles, does Williamina Jr's death certificate say that he was deceased? This could potentially greatly narrow the time when we need to look for Charles' death.
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On the basis of Scotmum's excellent sleuthing I have just done a speculative search on Famiysearch and their Brazilian records using the surname Stuart and found the following christening
Guilhermina Stuart- Christening 15 June 1873 Nossa Senhora da Luz da Catedral, Curitaba, Parana, Brazil. Residence Curitiba, Parana, Brazil. Parents Jacob Stuart and Isabel Young.
Wiliam
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I'd noticed that one tool Millmoor, but had been wary of the 'Isabel' rather than the expected 'Elspet'. I was fine with 'Jacob' given that 'Jacobus' is used for James.
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On the basis of Scotmum's excellent sleuthing I have just done a speculative search on Famiysearch and their Brazilian records using the surname Stuart and found the following christening
Guilhermina Stuart- Christening 15 June 1873 Nossa Senhora da Luz da Catedral, Curitaba, Parana, Brazil. Residence Curitiba, Parana, Brazil. Parents Jacob Stuart and Isabel Young.
Wiliam
Brilliant find William - Guilhermina could be the Portuguese version of Wilhelmina, James is a variant of Jacob and Elspet(h) is a variant of Elizabeth, which is Isabel(la) in Spanish/Portuguese.
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Oh I'm struggling to keep up here.
dates are uk style
Williamina junior died 15/8/1901 at 20 Taylor Street, Glasgow, Williamina senior registered the death, father was not deceased,
Charles Fraser b 1853 was baptised in 1902 at St Andrews, Dundee
Elspit on her marriage certificate in 1868 shows she came from Fyvie and father Alexander, gamekeeper, mother Ann, can,t read maiden name but it doesn't look loke summers
I also found the Brazil one and the dates look good
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So we know that Charles was still living on 13 September 1902, and that his sons were 'found wandering' before 1 July 1903, just ten months later. So something must have happened during those ten months. I had a quick look at the British Newspaper Collection on FindMyPast, but could not find any mentions of a Charles Fraser who can definitely be identified with your Charles Simon Fraser. Unfortunately when I tried to look at the actual reports all I got was an error message. Maybe someone else might have better luck.
Did you manage to find out from Dundee City Archives whether or not the Dundee Poor Law records have survived?
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I'm sorry to say that the poor records for the dates I need have not survived
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I'm sorry to say that the poor records have not survived
Just to clarify, for anyone reading who may think this applies to all the records, some, albeit not in timescale for dottymay51's research, did survive (and I happen to have had helpful info from them in the past):
•Liff and Benvie Register of Poor, 1854 to 1865 (Dundee Archives - Ref : SC45/48/1)
•Dundee East Poorhouse Register, 1856 to 1878 (Dundee City Archives reference: CP/DE6/1)
see http://www.fdca.org.uk/Index_PoorRegisters.html
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Oh, that is a great pity.
However there is an outside chance that there could possibly be something in the Glasgow ones. Alice was born in Glasgow and cannot have lived long enough in Dundee to gain settlement there. So if she was dealt with by the Dundee Parochial Board, they might have written to Glasgow to get the Glasgow Parochial Board to pay for the cost of looking after Alice. It's worth asking.
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I have looked at the newspapers and a Charles Fraser was convicted for police assault receiving a £2 fine or 1 month imprisonment on 15/6/03. I wonder if this was him and he chose the jail, leaving his family destitute as the boys were admitted on1/7/1903, just speculating.
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Possibly the same Charles Fraser of Mid Street, Lochee, was still alive in March 1904, when a chimney can fell from a height of four storeys. The article says he suffered severe injuries, with a badly cut head and nose, but that he received treatment at the local police station and was able to return home.
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Williamina remarried in 1908 so Charles was deceased by then assuming she was not telling porkies
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I have not been online for a couple of days, but I want to express my thanks to everyone who has helped me in my search, you have given me lots of information to enable my research further. Thank you all you are stars.
Dorothy x
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Hello!
I have just done a Google search for an Ancestor, on the off-chance I would find something, and came across your posts!
I have only just joined RootsChat, so no idea what I am doing here or how to navigate, so please excuse if I appear to be writing in the wrong place!
I am DESCENDED from FREDERICK AUGUSTUS FRASER and CATHERINE FALCONER!
Please get in touch!
Julie x