RootsChat.Com

Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: Gilli-Anne on Thursday 27 April 17 12:35 BST (UK)

Title: Confused about data on family tree sites.
Post by: Gilli-Anne on Thursday 27 April 17 12:35 BST (UK)
In researching information on William Owens (1734-1839), I have found sites which indicate that his mother was Matilda Knox and that she was born in 1672, which would make her rather an elderly mother. I know modern methods allow for elderly mothers, but surely that would not have been possible in the 18th century, unless, of course, he was adopted?

Gillian
Title: Re: Confused about data on family tree sites.
Post by: hallmark on Thursday 27 April 17 12:48 BST (UK)
People do all sorts with Trees, unless it has a source then I don't believe them...

Had similar myself with a Wm, Mary, and 6 children went to Australia, shipping lists showed them and someone put them on their tree, Mary became a mother at 61 according to records...... but Mary was his mother not his wife Mary who had died!!
Title: Re: Confused about data on family tree sites.
Post by: lizdb on Thursday 27 April 17 12:50 BST (UK)
What is the source of Matilda being his mother? Have you seen a parish register of a Christening?

If you are just looking at other peoples trees, then be aware that many are totally inaccurate, copied from each other, and not based on actual research.  So if the info on the tree is not backed up from an original source, forget it, especially as in this case it just doesn't add up!  She could not have been his mother at 62.
Title: Re: Confused about data on family tree sites.
Post by: casram on Thursday 27 April 17 13:30 BST (UK)
I saw a tree on A******y which had a woman giving birth 60 years after she had died so as other posters have said take anything you see in online trees with a large pinch of salt unless the person has given an original source, even then I would want to see the original for myself before I took the information as fact.

Carolyn
Title: Re: Confused about data on family tree sites.
Post by: Gilli-Anne on Saturday 03 June 17 14:42 BST (UK)
I've seen no records to prove these facts, but another family tree shows the same people as parents, but with different birth and death dates.

How reliable is Wikitree? I found my William Owens (1734 - 1839) there, with a different father.

Both sets of dates are possible, but again, no records to prove it.

Gillian
Title: Re: Confused about data on family tree sites.
Post by: youngtug on Saturday 03 June 17 14:48 BST (UK)
Wikitree, like other trees that are the product of another "researcher" are only as good as that "researcher". Some are flights of fancy, some are correct, others are just copies of someone else's tree already online, be it good or bad. Best to look at the records yourself,
Title: Re: Confused about data on family tree sites.
Post by: Chilternbirder on Saturday 03 June 17 15:15 BST (UK)
I once found a tree that gave my grandmother a bigamous second marriage and family in parallel with the one with my grandfather.

I am sure that some people just accept all the hints in Ancestry or FindMyPast witihout checking.
Title: Re: Confused about data on family tree sites.
Post by: Mike Morrell (NL) on Saturday 03 June 17 18:27 BST (UK)
Hi Gillian, I agree with all the comments made so far.

I started out on Ancestry a couple of years back. Initially, all the 'hints' seemed great and the plausible ones allowed me to expand my family tree quickly. But as others have pointed out, other family trees are not always well-researched. On sites like Ancestry, family tree data (well-researched or not) tends to be copied into multiple family trees.

I've gone through my tree a couple of times looking for 'weak links' that:
a) aren't supported by sufficient facts and evidence to back these up
b) may have alternative evidence supporting other facts

I've gradually learned to 'own' my tree data and not to just assume that hints or data in other trees are correct. Hints' from family tree websites are fine. But you really do need to check the supporting facts and evidence. You also need to check for any conflicting facts/evidence.

Our tree data will be copied by others. So the more reliable (and well-researched) our tree data is, the less unfounded tree data will be propagated through the family tree websites.

Mike
Title: Re: Confused about data on family tree sites.
Post by: aghadowey on Saturday 03 June 17 21:04 BST (UK)
Found someone I was looking for on Wikitree just a few weeks ago and contacted tree owner hoping to exchange details. I did mention that wife's maiden name was totally incorrect (well both surnames did start 'Ch') but they didn't seem to pick up that part of my message. I tried again by explaining that I already had quite a bit of detail on the family, etc. and the surname I had was correct but never heard back from them so guess they are interested in accuracy  ::)
Title: Re: Confused about data on family tree sites.
Post by: hurworth on Saturday 03 June 17 21:20 BST (UK)
I once found a tree that gave my grandmother a bigamous second marriage and family in parallel with the one with my grandfather.


I once found a tree that gave my gtgtgrandfather a bigamous second marriage.  That was news to me and their tree is correct!
Title: Re: Confused about data on family tree sites.
Post by: aghadowey on Saturday 03 June 17 21:25 BST (UK)
There's a family tree on Ancestry that shows my father's headstone attached to his record- bit of a shock as not only is he still very much alive but he always planned on being cremated  :o
Title: Re: Confused about data on family tree sites.
Post by: dowdstree on Saturday 03 June 17 22:02 BST (UK)
I found a tree on Ancestry recently which has my husband's cousin and his wife as deceased. (Both are alive and well ). This person had the correct dates of birth, marriage, parents etc. but had "invented" dates of death for them.

Despite me contacting him and politely pointing this out he refuses to change his tree and is very evasive about his relationship to the family, if any. His proof is other Ancestry Trees.

You can get some very useful hints on these sites but your own proof is essential.

I keep my tree private but will share my information with others if I feel that they are true researchers and not name grabbers.

Dorrie

P.S. I got my first breakthrough in my Irish research from a hint on ancestry. The guy had done a lot of research into the surname only to discover his line was from Cavan and not Antrim. He kept the info there anyway.

Title: Re: Confused about data on family tree sites.
Post by: Gilli-Anne on Tuesday 11 July 17 13:17 BST (UK)
Youngtug, where can I go to find reliable records?

Mike, thank you for your comments. I have seen some ridiculously erroneous data in Ancestry hints, which really annoys me. People see a name, think it's the same as a name in the family and add it to their tree when it is an entirely different person altogether. I used to ask people whose trees I found in the hints what their connection was to the family and they came up with a really vague connection, so I gave up. Another thing I don't like is when someone includes all the inlaws and their relations and their inlaws, etc., in their family tree. I just enter the names of spouses, not the spouses' entire families.

Aghadowey, that was not a nice experience seeing your father's name on a headstone - does he know about this? It's annoying that people just assume things and put them in the family tree as fact. Someone added a photo of a woman she believed to be my grandmother, but the woman in the photo was not my grandmother. I told the person concerned this and directed her to a photo of my actual grandmother. I'm happy to say she accepted this and changed the photo to the correct one. She said that she had got the information from a dvd. Only problem is, other people have seen her original photo and posted it to their trees as being my grandmother.

Gillian
Title: Re: Confused about data on family tree sites.
Post by: pharmaT on Tuesday 11 July 17 13:59 BST (UK)
There is, or at least was haven't looked again, a tree on ancestry with my Dad having twins in NY in 2005.  My dad died in 1999. when I tried to message the person and gave death details etc.  I was told that I was just delusional and I had invented my dad's death because I couldn't handle the fact my Dad had abandoned me because he didn't want me. :(
Title: Re: Confused about data on family tree sites.
Post by: RJ_Paton on Tuesday 11 July 17 15:01 BST (UK)
In one of my main lines I found a tree which took that line back to the 14th Century - 3 centuries more than I had been able to - and quoted checkable sources for the  individuals. Sadly when looked at closely that's all they were - individuals connected by wishful thinking rather than actual facts. (couples marrying in their late 40's and having their first child in their 60's in 16th Century Scotland  ::) ) 

The main problem is that this tree is on Ancestry and has been copied to quite a few other trees and is now quoted as a source  :-X

PS another tree (on Ancestry) also follows this line but takes it even further back to a Mr & Mrs ODIN, of Valhalla, in 6th Century Norway  :'(
Title: Re: Confused about data on family tree sites.
Post by: youngtug on Tuesday 11 July 17 15:50 BST (UK)
Although parish registers, bishops transcripts, Wills, school records and army records, etc,, are the safest source even some of these may be wrong due to errors or people telling lies, even lies by ommission. But we have to work with what we have.
I think we all make mistakes, it is recognizing them that is the hardest part and I am glad to be corrected by others but some people do not accept criticism,
Title: Re: Confused about data on family tree sites.
Post by: Billyblue on Tuesday 11 July 17 16:06 BST (UK)
It's not only on Ancestry that people claim the wrong 'ancestors'

Some years ago I was told a woman in central NSW wanted to get in touch with me. Her search was some years previous, but I tracked her down (luckily even though she'd moved, many of her family still lived in the original place)
My maternal grandfather had a sister named Caroline.  The woman looking for me had a Caroline, same surname, in her family which she claimed was mine and I had wrong dates, and places.  I sent her a copy of my Caroline's birth and marriage certs to show she was way off base, but she told me I was wrong and she was right because her 'brother had done the research so it must be right' !!

Dawn M
Title: Re: Confused about data on family tree sites.t
Post by: Gilli-Anne on Wednesday 27 September 17 23:30 BST (UK)
I checked this part of my family tree again and realized that William Owens, 1734-1839 was considerably younger than his supposed sister Jean - she was born in 1713. I was thinking William Owens and Matilda Knox could be her parents, if not hers. That would mean I would have to delete a lot of names from our family tree.

Sigh.

Gillian
Title: Re: Confused about data on family tree sites.
Post by: aghadowey on Thursday 28 September 17 08:12 BST (UK)
I checked this part of my family tree again and realized that William Owens, 1734-1839 was considerably younger than his supposed sister Jean - she was born in 1713. I was thinking William Owens and Matilda Knox could be her parents, if not hers. That would mean I would have to delete a lot of names from our family tree.

Sigh.

Gillian

Twenty or more years between siblings is entirely possible especially in the days of large families. My grandfather, the youngest of ten, was 22 years younger that the oldest child. His mother died just after he was born and father when he was in his teens but he was raised mainly by oldest sister and brother and had 2 nephews his age.
Title: Re: Confused about data on family tree sites.
Post by: Sinann on Thursday 28 September 17 09:27 BST (UK)
I checked this part of my family tree again and realized that William Owens, 1734-1839 was considerably younger than his supposed sister Jean - she was born in 1713. I was thinking William Owens and Matilda Knox could be her parents, if not hers. That would mean I would have to delete a lot of names from our family tree.

Sigh.

Gillian

Twenty or more years between siblings is entirely possible especially in the days of large families. My grandfather, the youngest of ten, was 22 years younger that the oldest child. His mother died just after he was born and father when he was in his teens but he was raised mainly by oldest sister and brother and had 2 nephews his age.

Much the same in my family, my mother last of nine, is 23 years younger the her sister who had already emigrated by the time little sister was born.
My eldest cousin is only seven years younger than my mother.
Title: Re: Confused about data on family tree sites.
Post by: J.A.M. on Friday 29 September 17 13:57 BST (UK)
I've had a similar experience with incorrect information. A distant cousin claims to have had her tree done by a professional genealogist and she says we are not related, even though I have presented her with documented evidence or our kinship.
Lazy, faulty research is the bane of us serious genealogists.
Title: Re: Confused about data on family tree sites.
Post by: hurworth on Friday 29 September 17 23:22 BST (UK)
I've just found an entry on Findagrave for a distant cousin which says she died from the effects of poison.  The contributor has added a newspaper article about the death.  The thing is, it's not our relative.  She died 25 years later.  The contributor has also added the who they think her children were (who are my relatives).

I'm not comfortable with people adding newspaper articles of such a nature.... it's tacky....but if you must do it at least get the correct person and get the facts right!
Title: Re: Confused about data on family tree sites.
Post by: Gilli-Anne on Friday 19 January 18 23:45 GMT (UK)
I wonder if some people are just so eager to have a massive family tree that they don’t care if the information they put in is correct or not.

Gillian
Title: Re: Confused about data on family tree sites.
Post by: Billyblue on Sunday 21 January 18 00:51 GMT (UK)
I wonder if some people are just so eager to have a massive family tree that they don’t care if the information they put in is correct or not.

Gillian
Could be.  Though a lot of people from a certain country are notorious for saying/thinking "it's the same name so it must be mine" even though they can't substantiate what has happened in a 100 or 200 year gap in their records!   ::)   ::)   ::)

Dawn M
Title: Re: Confused about data on family tree sites.
Post by: Gilli-Anne on Thursday 05 April 18 20:16 BST (UK)
I wonder if some people are just so eager to have a massive family tree that they don’t care if the information they put in is correct or not.

Gillian
Could be.  Though a lot of people from a certain country are notorious for saying/thinking "it's the same name so it must be mine" even though they can't substantiate what has happened in a 100 or 200 year gap in their records!   ::)   ::)   ::)

Dawn M

I think I’ll give up researching dates for William Owens and Matilda Knox. I can’t seem to find authentic information about them anywhere.

Gillian
Title: Re: Confused about data on family tree sites.
Post by: lizdb on Friday 06 April 18 10:53 BST (UK)
Never give up!!!!

I see you have dates for William Owens as 1734-1839.  That would make him 105 when he died - not impossible but highly unusual.
I cannot see a death in 1839 for a William Owens of that age.

So - before even beginning to think about his parents, you need to establish when he was born. Have you got a death cert? (with age) or a burial record? (with age - Im sure if he HAD lived to 105 this would be recorded in the parish record of his burial!).   If not - where did the 1734 year of birth come from ("other peoples trees" not being an acceptable source!!!).

Go one step at a time, confirming each step from as many sources as possible before moving back.

Title: Re: Confused about data on family tree sites.
Post by: hallmark on Friday 06 April 18 11:20 BST (UK)
Never give up!!!!

I see you have dates for William Owens as 1734-1839.  That would make him 105 when he died - not impossible but highly unusual.
I cannot see a death in 1839 for a William Owens of that age.

So - before even beginning to think about his parents, you need to establish when he was born. Have you got a death cert? (with age) or a burial record? (with age - Im sure if he HAD lived to 105 this would be recorded in the parish record of his burial!).   If not - where did the 1734 year of birth come from ("other peoples trees" not being an acceptable source!!!).

Go one step at a time, confirming each step from as many sources as possible before moving back.

Yes I doubt it too!

You're researching dates for William Owens and Matilda Knox..but you've given absolutely no details, clues and more importantly CLUES as to anything.

It seems you are fixated on something pulled from some tree, somewhere on Ancestry and posting it as factual!!

Where is the SOURCE that he died age 105??
Title: Re: Confused about data on family tree sites.
Post by: Gilli-Anne on Monday 07 May 18 23:14 BST (UK)
https://www.ancestry.com/boards/localities.britisles.ireland.ant.general/17217.2.1/mb.ashx

This link should be proof that I did NOT get my information about William Owens from someone else’s family tree.

 I am also told that there is a will for this William Owens at the Public Record Office for Northern Ireland, but not online, so I need to contact them.

Gillian

Title: Re: Confused about data on family tree sites.
Post by: Gilli-Anne on Tuesday 08 May 18 09:34 BST (UK)
https://www.ancestry.com/boards/localities.britisles.ireland.ant.general/17217.2/mb.ashx

That other link showed up the wrong post - this one should take you to the correct post.

Gillian
Title: Re: Confused about data on family tree sites.
Post by: aghadowey on Tuesday 08 May 18 12:15 BST (UK)
You have to be cautious about such claims in obituaries. I know of a man supposed to have died aged about 100 years and his obituary said be built the local church, etc. He was a joiner so that sounds likely until working out the dates from baptism record, marriage (age helpfully given), Family Bible, etc. it becomes clear that he was 3 years old when the church was built (and not yet living in the area) ::)
Title: Re: Confused about data on family tree sites.
Post by: Gilli-Anne on Tuesday 05 June 18 13:42 BST (UK)
Somewhere I have a hand written note about William Owens. I don’t know who the writer was, but it indicated that he had died at the age of 103 and that he was buried in his back garden. I also don’t know the source of the writer’s information.

I have also been informed that there is a will at PRONI which corresponds to this William Owens, as it is dated 7 September 1839 and granted 28 February 1840. Unfortunately I have not been able to find any records of his birth.

Gillian