RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Angus (Forfarshire) => Topic started by: Liviani on Friday 12 May 17 03:25 BST (UK)
-
Found something possibly unusual in my tree tonight. Upon checking the 1851 census which has my 3x great-grandmother and my 4x great-grandmother in it.
Elisabeth Stronner/Stroner married James Gibson in 1823 in Maryton, Angus.
The daughter Elisabeth was born 1831 in Rescobie. 1831 Elisabeth married a James Bradford (sometimes noted as Bridgeford) in 1857 in St Vigeans.
I found them on the 1851 census on FreeCen in Colliston Butler's House. I'm almost 100% sure this is the same family I have in my tree given the parishes and approx dates of the children's births here.
I'm curious as to why there is a female student noted here in this time period? It must've been extremely unusual, and not to mention expensive? Can anyone perhaps shed some light on what this might've meant in 1851? Elisabeth b.1831 ended up a farm servant's wife in future census. What would be the purpose of a female student back then? As far as I'm aware, women worked until they were married and/or had children then stayed at home looking after them.
Also, where is James Gibson (Elisabeth Stronner's husband)? It doesn't state that she is widowed, but she is noted as the head of the house and still noted as "butler's wife"? ???
Address: Colliston Butlers House
Surname First name(s) Rel Status Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
GIBSON Elisabeth Head M F 57 Butler's Wife Angus - Inverkeillor
GIBSON Elisabeth Dau U F 19 Student (Orig: Scholar) Angus - Rescobie
GIBSON James Son U M 11 Scholar Angus - Arbroath
I believe this is the same family in 1841 given what I know about their children.
Address: Midleton Manor House
Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
GIBSON James M 40 Male Servant Angus
GIBSON Elisabeth F 40 Angus
GIBSON Agnes F 17 Angus
GIBSON Charles M 15 Angus
GIBSON Elisabeth F 9 Angus
GIBSON James M 2 Angus
-
I've got three sisters who were scholars after the usual school leaving age. I've since found two of them in a Glaswegian newspaper list inserted by an Academy of females who had qualified as teachers.
-
I've got three sisters who were scholars after the usual school leaving age. I've since found two of them in a Glaswegian newspaper list inserted by an Academy of females who had qualified as teachers.
This is interesting. I'll see what I can find out through newspaper archives. Thanks!
-
Hello Liviani,
Found this on freecen
1851 Cencus, Colliston House ,St Vigeans.
George Robertson ,(65) retired General merchant,..........Born Arbroath.
JAMES GIBSON (51) BUTLER,...VISITOR...........BORN KIRKDEN.
Isabell Davidson (29) Housemaid...........Born Fordoun.
it says he is unmarried ,but maybe thats a mistake (maybe had an argument with his wife at time ) ;D. ;D
cheers,
Snowolf
-
I'm curious as to why there is a female student noted here in this time period?
I see that you have obtained this from some transcription or other, and that the transcription reads, "Student (orig Scholar)". This suggests to me that the original records her as a scholar, but that the transcriber, for some reason, has altered this to student.
This sort of thing is one of the reasons why it is always necessary to look at the original document on Scotland's People to see exactly what it does say.
-
I'm curious as to why there is a female student noted here in this time period?
I see that you have obtained this from some transcription or other, and that the transcription reads, "Student (orig Scholar)". This suggests to me that the original records her as a scholar, but that the transcriber, for some reason, has altered this to student.
This sort of thing is one of the reasons why it is always necessary to look at the original document on Scotland's People to see exactly what it does say.
I have noticed that it was down as scholar on other sources.
But the main question still remains. Scholar/student, still pertains to some form of education or study.
Which, for a 19 year old woman from a servant family in 1851 seems unusual to say the least. I would've expected a single woman of that age and from that background to be in some form of employment.
I wasn't so fussed about the semantics in this census record. Personally I'm not overly keen on spending credits on census records when they can be found elsewhere. The only time I will do this is if the transcription is completely impossible to work out from my own research. I prefer to keep my credits for death certs to confirm parents names, or curious about an address from an OPR record. For this particular record I was satisfied that student/scholar gave me enough of an idea to work from.
Having thought about it more, since her father was a butler they obviously worked for a wealthy family. It could be something like the family offering to pay her through some form of education? Perhaps her writing, reading or arithmetic weren't up to standard and they wanted to help, or needed her skills in the household?
Not able to research this household at the moment as I'm on mobile, but will try and find out more about the family that lived at Colliston House (is this the place that's now the hotel in Colliston?) at the time to see if there was anything to hint that they were charitable people.
@snowolf
I've noticed from that record that you found that James was staying nearby at Colliston House. Perhaps he was needed to work overnight?
A much smaller household than I expected for a house like that. Thank you for the find there. This is the same man. Great stuff.
I have a feeling that him being down as "unmarried" could be some form of assumption by the enumerator given that be isn't listed with a wife at that address in that night. Pure speculation, but this is him for sure.
-
Colliston House (is this the place that's now the hotel in Colliston?)
No. Go to http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15&lat=56.6023&lon=-2.6353&layers=5&b=1
You will see Colliston House at the top of the screen, and Gowanbank, which is where the present Colliston Inn is. Letham Grange, which is also a hotel, is to the right.
-
Colliston House (is this the place that's now the hotel in Colliston?)
No. Go to http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15&lat=56.6023&lon=-2.6353&layers=5&b=1
You will see Colliston House at the top of the screen, and Gowanbank, which is where the present Colliston Inn is. Letham Grange, which is also a hotel, is to the right.
Ah ok, this is a great help. Thank you Forfarian.
I've noticed from the location of Colliston House that it's also known as Colliston Castle. And at the time appears to have been owned by a George Robertson Chaplin of Auchengray.
Mentioned in wikipedia here; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colliston_Castle
It doesn't give dates of who owned it when exactly but, there was a 65 year old George Robertson as the head of Colliston House in 1851. He is noted as a retired general merchant.
I went ahead with ordering the image of the 1851 census because I began to question the authenticity of the "scholar" transcription. I began to doubt it in case it was actually "spinner" or something similar that has been mis-transcribed.
As it turns out it is indeed Scholar for 19 year old Elisabeth. It is the exact same writing for her 11 year old brother James who is of course noted as a scholar given his age.
Interestingly this with this census record, Colliston House is just above the entry for the Butler's House. George Robertson, James Gibson and Isabella Davidson being noted in this entry. What I have noticed is that what is actually transcribed as a "U" for "unmarried" for James Gibson, actually appears to be an "M" after all. Although the lettering is quite similar, but different enough for me to be satisfied that it is actually an "M" for married. Also interestingly here, there is a circle around James Gibson and Elisabeth Gibson's ages with a line linking them. This indicates that they are a couple. Where do these marks come from actually? Was this from the enumerator or someone who was tallying up the residents in the area? Or perhaps it's much later "scribbles"?
I will include a snippet of the entry so you can see what I mean.
(https://thumb.ibb.co/cVvBT5/Capture.png) (https://ibb.co/cVvBT5)
I've also come across something a tad bit confusing regarding James Gibson the butler and one of his children. I've searched newspaper articles and found one from the Dundee courier on the 14th March 1856. There is an entry for a marriage image below;
(https://thumb.ibb.co/fW4iak/Capture.png) (https://ibb.co/fW4iak)
Isabella Smith the third daughter of James Gibson? Now, would Smith be her middle name rather than her surname? I've also not found an Isabella at all for James Gibson and Elisabeth Stronner. I have wrongly snipped the last word of the article off but it states James Gibson, Colliston.
I have these children so far for them;
Agnes b.1823
Mary b.1826
Elis(z)abeth b.1831
James b.1839
But, nothing for an Isabella. This could of course be a completely different James Gibson, but we do know he was living in Colliston in 5 years prior to this entry that is in the Dundee Courier.
I also have a Charles b. abt 1825 but cannot find anything in relation to his birth. He is listed with the family at Middleton Manor House, Kirkden in the 1841 census. Given James' occupation as butler in 1851, it makes sense that he was in another manor house type occupation 10 years earlier as a male servant. The previous entry to the 1841 Gibsons has a very large household of Middleton Manor House, full of independents and servants also. The head of this household is a William Bruce Gardyne Esq. It appears James Gibson was for a long time employed by the landed gentry of Angus.
-
Isabella Smith the third daughter of James Gibson? Now, would Smith be her middle name rather than her surname?
Yes, it would.
Having looked at the FreeCEN transcription of the 1841 census, there is definitely something odd about this.
SP lists only two daughters of James G and Elizabeth Stronner: Agnes, 1823 and Elizabeth, 1831. If Isabella was their younger sister, she must either have been born after 7 June 1841 and not with her parents in 1851, or she must have been somewhere else in both 1841 and 1851. There is space for two more children between Charles and Elizabeth, but again, if Isabella fits in here, where was she in 1841 and 1851?
James Gibson isn't old enough to have been married before and have three daughters by a first wife before marrying Eliabeth Stronner in 1823.
I reckon you need that marriage certificate of Isabella Smith Gibson to William Nicol in St Vigeans in 1856!
-
Isabella Smith the third daughter of James Gibson? Now, would Smith be her middle name rather than her surname?
Yes, it would.
Isabella Smith Gibson married William Nicol in St Vigeans in 1856. The marriage certificate from SP should tell you all you want to know.
Yes this is definitely his daughter. Have just purchased the image of the marriage certificate. And it has her father as James Gibson, Occ - butler and mother as Elizabeth Gibson m.s Stronner.
She was 26 in March 1856 when she got married.
It's absolutely amazing that I've found this woman. If it wasn't for that newspaper entry I'd not have found her. Couldn't find her birth and she wasn't on any of the census records with the family previously. Thank you for the help, I had forgotten that this would be available post civil registration with further info.
Her occupation is a domestic servant.
-
If she was 26 in March 1856, that means she was born 1829/30. She could be (probably is) the 12-year-old Isabell Gibson , female servant, in the household of Jessie Walker in Hill Street, Arbroath in the 1841 census.
If so, there must therefore be yet another daughter between Charles and Isabella. Allowing for twins this hypothetical daughter must be at least 12 and no more than 15 years old.
There are a dozen female servants with surname Gibson aged 12 to 15 in Angus in the 1841 census. The most likely-looking one is a 13-year-old Mary in Arbroath.
-
If she was 26 in March 1856, that means she was born 1829/30. She could be (probably is) the 12-year-old Isabell Gibson , female servant, in the household of Jessie Walker in Hill Street, Arbroath in the 1841 census.
If so, there must therefore be yet another daughter between Charles and Isabella. Allowing for twins this hypothetical daughter must be at least 12 and no more than 15 years old.
There are a dozen female servants with surname Gibson aged 12 to 15 in Angus in the 1841 census. The most likely-looking one is a 13-year-old Mary in Arbroath.
Thank you Forfarian.
There is a Mary Gibson born 1826 in Maryton to James Gibson and Elizabeth Stronner. :)
Edit: Actually it's not Elizabeth Stronner, it's noted as Helen Stronner for some reason? Must be the same woman regardless? Stronner is not a very common name.
-
I have just noticed from Isabella Smith Gibson and William Nicoll's marriage record that they were married under the "Forms of the Free Church of Scotland".
They were married by the Rev. Andrew Peebles, minister for the Free Church, Colliston.
Was this regarded as a "regular" or "irregular" marriage at the time?
Have also found this;
(https://thumb.ibb.co/cBqgBQ/Capture.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cBqgBQ)
Source: http://www.ancestor.abel.co.uk/Angus/Friockheim.html
-
Turns out that William Nicoll and Isabella Gibson ended up in a pretty decent spot. Found them on various census. William remained a Blacksmith and in 1901 he was a 'Blacksmith and Heating engineer" and they were living at Briarlea, Barry Links, Carnoustie. The house is still there today. Have looked at it on google street view and it's a decent sized detached home. So they were pretty well off for the time really. Their sons ended up in what I would imagine pretty good jobs at the time.
William Nicoll b.1868 ended up as a Clerk in the Jute Trade and James Gibson Nicoll b.1870 ended up as in Inspector for Fire and Life insurance. Not bad given the servant history of the family!
-
It appears James Gibson's employer (Colliston House in 1851) was a benevolent man given his donations to the following from his estate when he passed away in the 1860s.
Just furthers my belief that he may have helped James' daughter Elisabeth with an education? Prior to George Robertson Chaplin's death in 1869 there are a few newspaper articles which state he has donated money to charitable organisations and educational systems while he was alive. He clearly was a man who was a strong advocate of education.
(https://preview.ibb.co/cwV9y5/Capture.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bJvL5k)
(https://imgbb.com/)
-
I have just noticed from Isabella Smith Gibson and William Nicoll's marriage record that they were married under the "Forms of the Free Church of Scotland".
They were married by the Rev. Andrew Peebles, minister for the Free Church, Colliston.
Was this regarded as a "regular" or "irregular" marriage at the time?
Regular.
-
There is a Mary Gibson born 1826 in Maryton to James Gibson and Elizabeth Stronner. :)
Edit: Actually it's not Elizabeth Stronner, it's noted as Helen Stronner for some reason? Must be the same woman regardless? Stronner is not a very common name.
It wouldn't be the first time I've seen a mother's given name being wrong in the baptism registers.
You have the MI for corroboration.
-
Liviani,
I see you have Stronner in your tree. My Grandmother was Susan Jane Stronner, born 1881 in Montrose. She was the daughter of John Stronner (1854-1923) and Jane Dunn (1851-1890).
John Stronner was the son of David Stronner (1810-1886) and Susan Robert (1816-1883).
Does this fit in with your Stronners anywhere?
Jim
-
Liviani,
I see you have Stronner in your tree. My Grandmother was Susan Jane Stronner, born 1881 in Montrose. She was the daughter of John Stronner (1854-1923) and Jane Dunn (1851-1890).
John Stronner was the son of David Stronner (1810-1886) and Susan Robert (1816-1883).
Does this fit in with your Stronners anywhere?
Jim
Hi Jim.
I will investigate more on my Stronners today. Most of mine that I know about were born in Inverkeilor, which isn't far from Montrose.
Some Stronners ended up in Dundee, but don't have a direct link yet.
I'll have a look in the next hour or so Jim and let you know what I can find.
It's an extremely uncommon name so I'd imagine there is a link somewhere, even if further back. From what I can see there are only ever a handful of Stronners in Scotland.
Jill
-
Hi Jim,
Here is what I have in my tree for the Stronners.
My 4x great-grandmother is Elis(z)abeth Stronner b.1792 Inverkeilor.
She was the daughter of William Stronner and Agnes Fin(d)lay.
They also had the following children;
John b. 1784
Jean b. 1787 d. in infancy bef. 1790
William b. 1788
Jean b. 1790
Helen b. 1795
All were born Inverkeilor.
Their father William was the son of (I think) another William Stronner. No info on their mother.
Here are William Jr's siblings;
James b. 1751
David b. 1753
Elisabeth b. 1755
Robert b. 1763
All born Inverkeilor again.
Potentially more children between Elisabeth and Robert (other than William) but don't appear to be registered.
As you can see most of my Stronner research is further back than what you have I will have to descend further down and see what I can find through the various male lines to see if I can get a match to any of yours.
Does anything there match with anything you have Jim? I'm not sure how far back you've gone with the Stronners. We could have a potential common ancestor if I finish off my branches.
Regards,
Jill.
EDIT:
John Stronner was the son of David Stronner (1810-1886) and Susan Robert (1816-1883).
I've done a search for all the David Stronner or Stroner 's born/baptised in Scotland between 1805 and 1815 and there are only two come up;
One baptised 1814 in Liff, Benvie & Invergowrie. Father David Stronner
the other baptised in Inverkeilor 1812. Parents; William Stronner and Jean Morris.
Could your David (1810-1886) be the 1812 David Stronner b. Inverkeilor?
I have a William Stronner b.1788 in Inverkeilor. This would fit with ages and could potentially be a match for your David's father?
Let me know your thoughts.
Thanks again,
Jill.
-
David Stronner was born in Dun according to what is on the 1881 census. Dun is not far from both Montrose and inverkelior, so they could well be related. Unfortunately, I don't know who his father was.
He married Susan Robert on 8th July 1837 in Arbuthnott, Kincardineshire.
As far as I've been able to make out from census records, they had the following children -
John, Helen, Robert, Wilemina, David, James & Lavinia.
John was born in Arbuthnott, and was a Shipwright in Montrose. He married Jane Dunn on 31st December 1873 in Montrose.
Their children were Susan Jane, David, Alexina & Robert.
That's really the total of my information for them, but as you say, Stronner is not exactly a common name, so I'm sure ther must be a link there somewhere.
Jim
-
David Stronner was born in Dun according to what is on the 1881 census. Dun is not far from both Montrose and inverkelior, so they could well be related. Unfortunately, I don't know who his father was.
He married Susan Robert on 8th July 1837 in Arbuthnott, Kincardineshire.
As far as I've been able to make out from census records, they had the following children -
John, Helen, Robert, Wilemina, David, James & Lavinia.
John was born in Arbuthnott, and was a Shipwright in Montrose. He married Jane Dunn on 31st December 1873 in Montrose.
Their children were Susan Jane, David, Alexina & Robert.
That's really the total of my information for them, but as you say, Stronner is not exactly a common name, so I'm sure ther must be a link there somewhere.
Jim
Was just going to reply again having checked the censuses. I think your David is a different branch, there probably is a link as you say but I think that link happens a little too far back for us to check sadly.
Could be a generation back than what I have. It seems like the David born in Dun family potentially didn't register the baptisms/didn't have them baptised which makes things more difficult unfortunately.
I'll let you know if I find anything else though. The Stronners are a relatively new discovery for me so I may uncover more.
Jill
-
David Stronner was born in Dun according to what is on the 1881 census. Dun is not far from both Montrose and inverkelior, so they could well be related. Unfortunately, I don't know who his father was.
He married Susan Robert on 8th July 1837 in Arbuthnott, Kincardineshire.
As far as I've been able to make out from census records, they had the following children -
John, Helen, Robert, Wilemina, David, James & Lavinia.
John was born in Arbuthnott, and was a Shipwright in Montrose. He married Jane Dunn on 31st December 1873 in Montrose.
Their children were Susan Jane, David, Alexina & Robert.
That's really the total of my information for them, but as you say, Stronner is not exactly a common name, so I'm sure ther must be a link there somewhere.
Jim
Was just going to reply again having checked the censuses. I think your David is a different branch, there probably is a link as you say but I think that link happens a little too far back for us to check sadly.
Could be a generation back than what I have. It seems like the David born in Dun family potentially didn't register the baptisms/didn't have them baptised which makes things more difficult unfortunately.
I'll let you know if I find anything else though. The Stronners are a relatively new discovery for me so I may uncover more.
Jill
Jill
You are probably right in that proving a link will be difficult. Good luck with your searches, and I'll keep a lookout for any messages.
Jim
-
I have quite a few Stronners in my tree but mine seem to be more from the Arbroath/St Vigeans area. I'd love to see if they could all be tied together.
Vikki
-
I have quite a few Stronners in my tree but mine seem to be more from the Arbroath/St Vigeans area. I'd love to see if they could all be tied together.
Vikki
Hi Vikki.
I haven't done too much work on my Stronner line of late but here's what I have;
I've gotten back to a William Stronner who married an Agnes Fin(d)lay. They married in Brechin, Angus in 1783. Though I have a feeling that the Brechin is more to do with where Agnes came from rather than William given what I have found about the Stronners in Angus around this time.
This is their children that I have;
John b.1784 Inverkeilor
William b.1788 Inverkeilor
Jean b.1790 Inverkeilor
Elizabeth b.1792 Inverkeilor (my 4x g-grandmother)
Helen b.1795 Inverkeilor
This is all I have on my Stronners at present. I'll be doing some more work on Elizabeth's siblings soon I think, so perhaps we can make a connection further down the line.
I did a search on SP to check for all Stron*r births in Scotland before 1800 and there were 2 pages worth.
The vast majority of births were located in Inverkeilor, there are a few in Perth and some in Fife (Crail, Kingsbarns, St Andrews) and a couple in Arbroath. I get the feeling that most of the Stronners stemmed initially from Inverkeilor and then spread out.
I wonder if anyone has access to George F. Black's book 'The Surnames of Scotland: Their Origin, Meaning and History'. I've found some interesting info about a surname in my tree (Cloudsley) from a snippet I found online from this book.
Jill
-
Hi Jill, thanks for your reply. I've been concentrating on the Stronners for way too long to be honest! Around 1000 people in my tree but these ones are the people I seem to keep coming back to.
I've found a few new people (spouses, children etc) just very recently, so I'm back on their trail again. I've not tied mine to the branch from outside of the Arbroath area just yet, but I'm hoping I can. I'll try to get their details posted here soon in the hope that we can possibly tie them together.
Vikki
-
I wonder if anyone has access to George F. Black's book 'The Surnames of Scotland: Their Origin, Meaning and History'. I've found some interesting info about a surname in my tree (Cloudsley) from a snippet I found online from this book.
I have a (rather batteredand rapidly disintergrating) copy. It says nothing about Stron(n)er but Black says that Strono may be a version of Stronach, an Aberdeenshire surname which is probably from the Gaelic 'sron', meaning 'nose', which is often anglicised as 'strone'.
I see that Black thinks that Cloudsley is of English origin, from Cloudesley in Sussex.
-
Someone once told me that Stronner was derived from the profession of slater. no idea if it's true or not though.
Vikki
-
Hi Jill, thanks for your reply. I've been concentrating on the Stronners for way too long to be honest! Around 1000 people in my tree but these ones are the people I seem to keep coming back to.
I've found a few new people (spouses, children etc) just very recently, so I'm back on their trail again. I've not tied mine to the branch from outside of the Arbroath area just yet, but I'm hoping I can. I'll try to get their details posted here soon in the hope that we can possibly tie them together.
Vikki
I do have an urge to keep going back to my branch. It's still a relatively uncommon name today from what I can find. It's my next project so to speak. May see what I can find later.
Out of interest how far back have you got with your Stronners? I do notice there were a few in Dundee, but can't establish a link yet.
I wonder if anyone has access to George F. Black's book 'The Surnames of Scotland: Their Origin, Meaning and History'. I've found some interesting info about a surname in my tree (Cloudsley) from a snippet I found online from this book.
I have a (rather batteredand rapidly disintergrating) copy. It says nothing about Stron(n)er but Black says that Strono may be a version of Stronach, an Aberdeenshire surname which is probably from the Gaelic 'sron', meaning 'nose', which is often anglicised as 'strone'.
I see that Black thinks that Cloudsley is of English origin, from Cloudesley in Sussex.
Ah that's helpful, many thanks. It could stem from that. It could well be a corruption of Stronach/Strone in the area. From what I am aware, Gaelic wasn't spoken much in this area (Inverkeilor) around 1780 onwards? I may be wrong though.
I have seen that reference from Black's book re: Cloudsley before (online). I do agree that it appears English. From my own research of the name, they appear to stem from Montrose initially around 1600. On searching SP for baptisms (bearing in mind most records will be missing from this time and/or damaged) and there are about 3 different Cloudsley men in the area having children in the early 1600s. My feeling is that they are related, perhaps brothers who came to the area for work in imports/exports (I think there is mention of this online and in Black's book) from probably England.
I have seen another reference to the name being from Cloudsley Farm in Warwickshire, could be either.
There is also a Charity in London named after a Richard Cloudsley. Here is some brief background.
http://www.cloudesley.org.uk/500-years/history/
I have seen quite a lot of Cloudsleys in the London area in various sources online.
-
Ah that's helpful, many thanks. It could stem from that. It could well be a corruption of Stronach/Strone in the area. From what I am aware, Gaelic wasn't spoken much in this area (Inverkeilor) around 1780 onwards? I may be wrong though.
No, Gaelic wasn't spoken around Inverkeilor then, but a lot of the place names are much older than that and have obvious Gaelic elements ('inver' in Inverkeilor, 'aber' in Aberbrothock->Arbroath, 'kin' in Kinblethmont, 'achadh' in Auchmithie, are just a few that spring to mind).
If Stron(n)er is from 'sron' via Stronach, it comes from further north, in Aberdeenshire, where Gaelic was spoken in several areas into the 19th century, or so I am given to understand.
-
Some photographs around Colliston, for background purposes:
http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NO6045
http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NO6145
http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NO6046
http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NO6146
-
Thank you Forfarian for the Geograph site links. I find myself travelling through these places now noticing place names or farms that appear in my family tree on various signs.
Re: Stron(n)er/Stronach etc
Stronner is certainly one of those names that just 'appears' with no real history behind it. This does lead me to believe that it is a corruption or an Anglicisation of Stronach. I've also seen on the Clan Cameron site that Stronach is actually a Sept of the Clan. This could mean a number of things. Clan Cameron were largely Jacobites. Given the events after Culloden and how Gaelic was effectively banned, I can see how an Anglicisation of Stronach may have occured.
Jill.
-
I've also seen on the Clan Cameron site that Stronach is actually a Sept of the Clan. This could mean a number of things.
Yes.
In particular it means, "There were some people surnamed Stronach who were attached to Clan Cameron", and it does not mean, "All people called Stronach are descended from Clan Cameron".
Unfortunately the Brigadoon industry, and large numbers of other people who ought to know better, seem to believe the second interpretation, not the first, for any given combination of surname and clan name.
-
Hi Jill, I've got back to the mid 1700s with mine.
-
Update for anyone researching the Stronner families in Angus.
Unfortunately I just can't seem to find anything regarding my branch. Nothing on who Elizabeth's siblings married, when they died, anything really.
Quite frustrating as there are some interesting Stronner characters in the 1800s and I'd have liked to prove or disprove a link.
I will keep at it and see if I can scrape a segment of info from somewhere. I'm more interested in Elizabeth's brothers for now since the name passes down the male side.
This one is a bit of a slog, but just thought I'd update you all for now.
-
Hi. I know how frustrating this can be. I'll have a look at the dates etc you mentioned and see if I can help in any way through my branch of the family.
Vikki
-
Hi. I know how frustrating this can be. I'll have a look at the dates etc you mentioned and see if I can help in any way through my branch of the family.
Vikki
Many thanks Vikki.
I've still not had any luck with these elusive Stronners.
Jill.
-
With mine there always seems to be some sort of glitch - like you find a statutory death certificate and instead of the parents' names, there are only question marks :-(
Vikki x
-
With mine there always seems to be some sort of glitch - like you find a statutory death certificate and instead of the parents' names, there are only question marks :-(
Vikki x
That must be so frustrating. Who are the informants on these ones Vikki? Just curious if it's a family member that is clueless about their family history or someone unconnected to the family like a doctor, neighbour or someone?
-
It's so annoying! On one of the certificates there's a parent's name that I'm almost 100% sure is wrong - that was a neighbour who was the informant on that one. On the one with just the question marks, it was the grand-daughter who was the informant.
Vikki