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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Nottinghamshire => Topic started by: WideEyedGirl on Monday 22 May 17 21:08 BST (UK)
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Hello all,
I am currently researching the Fletcher side of my family.
My ancestor is JAMES FLETCHER, an agricultural labourer, born apparently about 1797 in Clarborough in Nottinghamshire, according to the 1851 census. He married Elizabeth Dobb at Cathedral St Peter, Sheffield, on 30 May 1814. James and Elizabeth had the following children; Mary Ann, Vincent, Catherine, James, Martha, Jane, Elizabeth, Fanny and Joseph.
Now I was trying to trace the ancestry of James Fletcher (who married Elizabeth Dobb), and yet I'm struggling to find a baptism for him. Both the 1841 and 1851 censuses suggested the 1797 date and place (the 1841 suggested he wasn't born in Yorkshire, which was where he was living at the time).
Now with his son having the (quite) unusual name of Vincent, I decided to look for possible relatives called Vincent. I found a baptism for a VINCENT FLETCHER, bap 29 Apr 1770 in Clarborough, Notts, the son of Joseph. Could this be a brother of James? I found a sibling to Vincent called James, this James being baptised 11 Nov 1787 at Clarborough, but obviously this is 10 years too early from what I was given in the censuses.
Despite this, I'm thinking this could be the right man - my James had already been widowed when he married Elizabeth Dobb, and I believe his first marriage was to Jane Snidall in Sheffield in 1811 - which would invalidate the date given on the censuses as he would have been only 14.
What do the people of rootschat think? Could this be my James, but he's given the wrong birth date?
Many thanks for any help,
Holly
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Few things that strike me:
If he was born 1797 and married in 1814 that means he was only 17 when he married which although not impossible seems a bit young.
my James had already been widowed when he married Elizabeth Dobb,
Not very likely if he was only 17.
If Vincent was born 1770 that makes him 27 years older than James, more likely to be father rather than brother?
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Groom -
That's what I was thinking with him being 17 at the second marriage, not very likely at all. And with the first marriage being 4 years previous to this - it would have made him 14, so his birth date must be earlier than the 1797 suggested in the censuses.
The Vincent born 1770 would have been 17 years older than the brother he had, called James, who was born in 1787, which would make him a feasible sibling. Not so much if his brother had been born in 1797 like it suggested on censuses for my James. But I think it is likely that my James could be the James born 1787, brother of Vincent, in Clarborough. Both this James and his brother Vincent had a father's name of Joseph - a name which my James gave to one of his sons.
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I think you need to find Jame's death / burial which will confirm his age.
Carol
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I think you need to find Jame's death / burial which will confirm his age.
Carol
Not necessarily, as it will only give the age that he said he was and that the person who registered his death thought he was. So if he'd claimed he was younger, that is more than likely what it would say. I've always thought that death certificates are the most unreliable of the 3!
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That's right I agree with that, but you should get it anyway. Think positive, it may just confirm he was the one bapt in 1787.
Carol
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Whilst I agree that the death cert. will only have what is known about the deceased and if he lied about his age constantly it will be wrong on the cert., ask who was he lying to and why.
The reason - I have a relative who in census after census and marriage cert. lied about his name and age but when he died suddenly of a stroke, he was found dead near his house, his wife registered his correct name and age. He lied to the officials but not to his wife.
:)
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Hi Holly
This looks like his burial. I noticed on the 1851 census he is living on Harvest Lane
Aug 17 1858 at St Philip, Sheffield, James Fletcher aged 62 Harvest Lane
Carol
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Hi Holly
This looks like his burial. I noticed on the 1851 census he is living on Harvest Lane
Aug 17 1858 at St Philip, Sheffield, James Fletcher aged 62 Harvest Lane
Carol
Which gives a birth about 1796, which if correct doesn't seem to fit the two marriages as that would have made him about 14 and 18.
How old was his wife, did he lose a few years so that they were nearer in age?
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The new GRO site gives ages at death and also says aged 62yrs making his birth 1796 same as in census
FLETCHER, JAMES 62 Order
GRO Reference: 1858 S Quarter in SHEFFIELD Volume 09C Page 214
NG
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Thank you for all your replies.
Elizabeth Dobb, James's second wife was born about 1793 in Rotherham (I believe she was the daughter of Thomas Dobb and Martha Eyre, baptized 5 Jan 1794 at Rotherham All Saints). On the wedding document for James and Elizabeth, it says that Elizabeth was a spinster, and that James was widowed - so then I went looking for a possible marriage for James.
The most feasible one I could find was to Jane Snidall, at Sheffield, on 14 Jan 1811. I believe this Jane was born 1788, baptized 12 Oct 1788 in Sheffield. Jane passed away in March 1814, buried 11 March 1814, at Attercliffe, where she is said to be 25 years old, and the wife of James.
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Elizabeth Dobb, James's second wife was born about 1793
So that makes her 3 years older than his claimed age. If he was going to change his age at all, I would have thought he'd have made himself the same age as her or slightly older, not younger. Very odd.