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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Armagh => Topic started by: heatherwalsh on Sunday 04 June 17 05:02 BST (UK)

Title: John FRAZER, birth, death, marriage, anything
Post by: heatherwalsh on Sunday 04 June 17 05:02 BST (UK)
Hello Everyone,  I am trying to find ANY information at all about  JOHN FRAZER.  I have these clues to go on.......birth about 1793......death 12 jan 1871 Lisnafeedy Armagh.  I have taken these clues from a tree on ancestry but they are not backed up with any certificates etc.  I am hoping someone may be able to help me discover any information at all to try and help me.......The JOHN FRAZER i am looking for did have a daughter named Ann Jane Frazer born abt 1833 if that is of any help.  All help is greatly appreciated,   Thank you from Heather
Title: Re: JOHN FRAZER, BIRTH, DEATH, MARRIAGE, ANYTHING
Post by: dathai on Sunday 04 June 17 07:44 BST (UK)
There are a couple of John's on the will index but not the above John
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01k7g/
Title: Re: JOHN FRAZER, BIRTH, DEATH, MARRIAGE, ANYTHING
Post by: heatherwalsh on Sunday 04 June 17 09:45 BST (UK)
Thank you
Title: Re: JOHN FRAZER, BIRTH, DEATH, MARRIAGE, ANYTHING
Post by: aghadowey on Sunday 04 June 17 10:39 BST (UK)
A William Frazier and Mrs. James Frazier in Lisnafeedy townland 1833 Tithe Applotment Book-
http://www.irishgenealogyhub.com/armagh/tithe-applotments/eglish-parish.php#.WTPTsuvyvIU

At the time of Griffith's Valuation there were John Frazer and William Frazer in the same townland.
Title: Re: JOHN FRAZER, BIRTH, DEATH, MARRIAGE, ANYTHING
Post by: heatherwalsh on Sunday 04 June 17 11:28 BST (UK)
thank you
Title: Re: JOHN FRAZER, BIRTH, DEATH, MARRIAGE, ANYTHING
Post by: eileenwilson on Monday 05 June 17 20:05 BST (UK)
The John and William in Griffiths remain there until 1905 when William's land is in the names of Lucy and Elizabeth, and John remains in the name of John.  This suggests that this is not your John, but perhaps two sons who were the main tenants in the original Griffiths valuation done about 1864 in Co. Armagh.

Wills online show that Lucy was a spinster, so likely a sister to William, and she leaves it to another John.   There is a will for a James Frazer in 1903 in Lisnafeedy who names having his residence with his brother, John, but has his farm in the townland of Eglish. He leaves everything to John.
Title: Re: John FRAZER, birth, death, marriage, anything
Post by: ansimi on Friday 09 June 17 23:27 BST (UK)
I have a lot of Lisnafeedy Frazers in my database but not the Anne Jane born 1833. Can you tell me what you have for her and I'll see if I can line her up with a family?

I also have all the other Frazer families I've found from Eglish and Clonfeacle Parishes.

I have several Johns and an intermarriage so it's a bit complicated...

I believe these Frazers went to Eglish Parish Church which has surviving records going back a lot further than most Irish churches and they're on LDS film.
Title: Re: John FRAZER, birth, death, marriage, anything
Post by: wivenhoe on Friday 09 June 17 23:32 BST (UK)

It might be better to describe your research as being the origins of Ann Jane Frazer born abt 1833.

What do you know about her. If it is her marriage, can you give information on her marriage record.
Title: Re: John FRAZER, birth, death, marriage, anything
Post by: heatherwalsh on Saturday 10 June 17 05:44 BST (UK)
Ok,  I really dont know much about ann jane,  she married william cullen in 1856 marlacoo? armagh. Their children, mary jane, david, william, ellen and margaret i have found so far.  maryjane married robert kirkland and went to america. david married margaret jeffers stayed in ireland as far as i know. william died before 1901 as his wife was still in census in ireland, her name was ruth cullen nee mcdonell. ellen married joseph flack/fleck ended up in scotland,  margaret married augustus dale and ended up in scotland as well.    several trees on ancestry suggest ann jane came from america but these trees conflict with her having different mothers and have no certificate back ups.......the census and marriage says she born armagh............i'm lost with her. she died before her huband, he died 1911, she died 1906
Title: Re: John FRAZER, birth, death, marriage, anything
Post by: heatherwalsh on Saturday 10 June 17 05:51 BST (UK)
yes her marriage says her father john,...........
Title: Re: John FRAZER, birth, death, marriage, anything
Post by: ansimi on Saturday 10 June 17 06:16 BST (UK)
Does her marriage record say she was from Lisnafeedy? Marriages were usually in the bride's church and Marlacoo is an odd fit.
Title: Re: John FRAZER, birth, death, marriage, anything
Post by: heatherwalsh on Saturday 10 June 17 06:53 BST (UK)
i cant find the cert.............grrrrr
Title: Re: John FRAZER, birth, death, marriage, anything
Post by: heatherwalsh on Saturday 10 June 17 06:55 BST (UK)
everything so far is centering around ahorey, richill, mullavilly, bainbridge ?????
Title: Re: John FRAZER, birth, death, marriage, anything
Post by: heatherwalsh on Saturday 10 June 17 07:05 BST (UK)
i am so sorry, i cant find any of my certs, which is very upsetting as i have moved house.......i hope i can find them.   i remember a spelling of frizell or frizzell  if that is of any help, this was on one of her childrens deaths
Title: Re: John FRAZER, birth, death, marriage, anything
Post by: aghadowey on Saturday 10 June 17 09:43 BST (UK)
Ok,  I really dont know much about ann jane,  she married william cullen in 1856 marlacoo? armagh. Their children, mary jane, david, william, ellen and margaret i have found so far.  maryjane married robert kirkland and went to america. david married margaret jeffers stayed in ireland as far as i know. william died before 1901 as his wife was still in census in ireland, her name was ruth cullen nee mcdonell. ellen married joseph flack/fleck ended up in scotland,  margaret married augustus dale and ended up in scotland as well.    several trees on ancestry suggest ann jane came from america but these trees conflict with her having different mothers and have no certificate back ups.......the census and marriage says she born armagh............i'm lost with her. she died before her huband, he died 1911, she died 1906

To save anyone else searching for Cullen family here are links to some previous topics (not sure if I have found them all)-
Some previous threads on Cullen family-
cullen family armagh (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=465265.msg3257894#msg3257894) (Armagh)
nellie hyland nee cullen (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=466090.msg3265457#msg3265457) (Larnarkshire)
any idea's (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=467531.msg3278100#msg3278100) (Lanarkshire)
all i need is ?? ?? (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=468237.msg3284470#msg3284470) (Lanarkshire)
looking for help with a birth (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=520262.msg3755299#msg3755299) (Armagh)
cullen look up please 1901 scotland (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=520417.msg3756560#msg3756560) (Lanarkshire)
william cullen look up please...1901 scotland (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=520630.msg3758365#msg3758365) (Lanarkshire)
1911 lookup request please (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=527593.msg3822938#msg3822938) (Lanarkshire)
kirkland family look up please (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=544106.msg3978058#msg3978058) (Lanarkshire)
kirkland census look up please (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=557753.msg4104560#msg4104560) (Lanarkshire)
birth details armagh (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=586927.msg4380654#msg4380654) (Armagh)
help finding deaths please (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=658093.msg5038811#msg5038811) (Lanarkshire)
census look ups please (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=658116.msg5038957#msg5038957) (USA)
spare credits ?? ? look up please (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=674233.msg5192355#msg5192355) (Lanarkshire)

and this one from Sept.2016-
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=755693.msg6052635#msg6052635
Title: Re: John FRAZER, birth, death, marriage, anything
Post by: aghadowey on Saturday 10 June 17 09:56 BST (UK)
If John Frazer lived at Lisnafeedy most of his life then it looks as though the church records don't go back far enough to show baptisms (and possibly marriages) for any children-
http://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0218 (Eglish parish baptisms & marriages from 1862)
There don't seem to be earlier registers available-
https://www.johngrenham.com/records/rc_church.php?churchid=0218&parish=Eglish

Brides usually marry from home/their own church but you say Ann Jane Frazer married Marlacoo (which is the other side of Armagh). If that is correct then either she was living away from home or her family lived in that area-
Title: Re: John FRAZER, birth, death, marriage, anything
Post by: aghadowey on Saturday 10 June 17 10:36 BST (UK)
Extracted marriage record for Ann Jane Frazer (born c1833) m.(1856 Mullabrack) William Cullins-
   https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGXG-NT9

? Jane Frazer (born 1833 Eglish Parish) parents John Frazer & Sarah
   https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V5VW-MQV

Other possibilites to explore from LDS database- and these are just that- only possibilities based on father's name and area-

John Frazer m.(1866) Jane Steenson
   https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FG82-ZQ8
Elizabeth Frazer m.(1869) William Frazer
   https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGZZ-BTJ

SUBMITTED family tree here- perhaps this is where you've gotten your information from?
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/2:1:M7BX-14X
Title: Re: John FRAZER, birth, death, marriage, anything
Post by: heatherwalsh on Saturday 10 June 17 12:34 BST (UK)
wow, thank you and no i have never seen that family tree before.........now i have a possible mother for ann jane.......thank you
Title: Re: John FRAZER, birth, death, marriage, anything
Post by: aghadowey on Saturday 10 June 17 12:50 BST (UK)
Please re-read my last few posts more carefully.

The LDS tree is SUBMITTED (I highlighted & underlined this to make that clear) which means it is not proven or reliable.

You do NOT have a possible mother for Ann Jane Frazer unless you can prove that the baptism for JANE Frazer is the same person.

The worrying thing here, aside from you posting mis-information, omitting details already given and jumping to conclusions, is the various locations of these records.
Title: Re: John FRAZER, birth, death, marriage, anything
Post by: heatherwalsh on Saturday 10 June 17 13:04 BST (UK)
sorry