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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Devon => Topic started by: Forfarian on Sunday 11 June 17 10:21 BST (UK)

Title: Who was Bertram Mitford's wife?
Post by: Forfarian on Sunday 11 June 17 10:21 BST (UK)
In the 1911 census, there is a household at White Lodge, Seaton, Devon including Elizabeth Florence Mitford, 80, widow; Bertram Vernon Mitford, son, 39; Beatrice Agnes Mitford, daughter-in-law, 30; Florence Allardice, visitor, 31. Both Beatrice and Florence were born at Mylemoney, Kadar, India.

What I would like to know is whether Beatrice and Florence were sisters.

I have a lot of information about Florence's family. Her father, William Alexander Allardice (1840-1897), was a coffee planter at Mylemoney, which is in southern India near Bangalore or Mysore. Her mother was Helen Guthrie (1844-1928), my 4th cousin 4 times removed. They had 13 children, but so far I have found only 10 of them including Florence. I have marriage and/or death information for all of these except one child who probably died in infancy.

According to the death indexes Beatrice Agnes Mitford was born on 15 October 1880, which is only 11 months after Florence's birth on 12 November 1879. This does seem to be rather soon, but I suppose it's not impossible.

However I have, so far, completely failed to find the marriage of Bertram Vernon Mitford to Beatrice Agnes to find out whether or not she was one of the three missing Allardice children.

Any ideas?

Title: Re: Who was Bertram Mitford's wife?
Post by: jomcd967 on Sunday 11 June 17 10:34 BST (UK)
A Bertram Vernon Mitford, s/o Charles Venables Mitford, gentleman,  married Beatrice Agnes Allardice, d/o William Alexander Allardice, coffee planter, 20 Dec 1900 in St Helier Jersey, Beatrice born in India.

Jo  :)
Title: Re: Who was Bertram Mitford's wife?
Post by: Forfarian on Sunday 11 June 17 10:46 BST (UK)
Brilliant, thank you, jomcd967. That fits perfectly because William Alexander died in Jersey.

Where does one find Jersey BMDs?
Title: Re: Who was Bertram Mitford's wife?
Post by: jomcd967 on Sunday 11 June 17 12:21 BST (UK)
I really don't know about Jersey records, the marriage just popped up on Ancestry, but if you'd like to tell me who/what you're looking for I'll happily have a look.

Jo  :)
Title: Re: Who was Bertram Mitford's wife?
Post by: Forfarian on Sunday 11 June 17 12:44 BST (UK)
I really don't know about Jersey records, the marriage just popped up on Ancestry, but if you'd like to tell me who/what you're looking for I'll happily have a look.

It was more a general query rather than a specific, since you had kindly turned up Beatrice Agnes for me. I can access Ancestry in various libraries.

I would be interested in anything more on this Allardice Family. I know that William Alexander died in Jersey on 12 November 1897, but not exactly where, and I have at least two, possibly three, of his children still to find. (I have read that there were 13 children, of whom 4 were sons; so far I have found 5 sons and 6 daughters). I have his birth and that of his wife Helen Guthrie, and I know that Helen died in Kent in 1928.

As for the known children

Helen Maria married William Hamilton Ritchie in India in 1896. They had one daughter, who married but had no children as far as I know. William died in 1901, and in 1902 Helen Maria married Everard Milman Playfair. They are said to have had one daughter but I have not found anything about her.

Mary Isabella married Adam Brack Boyd in India in 1888. I think he must be the one who remarried in 1913, describing himself as a widower, but I have failed to find a death of Mary Isabella (unless Adam was lying!). I don't think there were any children - or if there were I have failed to find them.

William Patrick died in India in 1910, unmarried.

David Onslow died in South Africa in 1960. He married in South Africa in 1905 and had one son.

Alexandrina Colquhoun married John Roland Errington in India in 1893

Laura Winifred married Dugald Alexander MacMillan in India in 1896. I have plenty information about her descendants.

Duncan Alexander, born 1878, probably died in infancy, but I have not found any information about that.

Beatrice Agnes married Bertram Vernon Mitford in Jersey in 1900, as you have kindly told me.

Florence married Ernest Bolden in London in 1919. I think he died in 1952 and she in 1965. I have not found any children.

Harry was killed in France in 1916. I have read that he was married, but have not found any evidence of a marriage.

Colin McDermid was killed in Flanders in 1915. I have no information to suggest that he was married.
Title: Re: Who was Bertram Mitford's wife?
Post by: jomcd967 on Sunday 11 June 17 13:25 BST (UK)
Williams probate is also on Ancestry, William Alexander Allardice of Mylemony Chickmugamore Mysore territory India, Coffe planter died 12 November 1897 at 1 Norfolk Terrace Rouge Buillon Jersey.

Jo  :)
Title: Re: Who was Bertram Mitford's wife?
Post by: Forfarian on Sunday 11 June 17 13:54 BST (UK)
Thank you!
Title: Re: Who was Bertram Mitford's wife?
Post by: Jool on Sunday 11 June 17 14:09 BST (UK)
Hi, here is a photograph of Norfolk Terrace
https://www.theislandwiki.org/index.php/File:NorfolkTerraceRougeB.jpg

It was a very desirable, affluent area according to this website
https://www.theislandwiki.org/index.php/Rouge_Bouillon

Title: Re: Who was Bertram Mitford's wife?
Post by: Forfarian on Sunday 11 June 17 14:21 BST (UK)
Thank you, Jool. That looks like a very suitable place for a retired Indian coffee planter to live.

He must still have been in India in 1896, when two of his daughters got married there, so he must have come to Jersey not long before he died the following year. His widow was still in St Helier in 1911, but she died in England.
Title: Re: Who was Bertram Mitford's wife?
Post by: avm228 on Sunday 11 June 17 15:08 BST (UK)

I would be interested in anything more on this Allardice Family. I know that William Alexander died in Jersey on 12 November 1897, but not exactly where, and I have at least two, possibly three, of his children still to find. (I have read that there were 13 children, of whom 4 were sons; so far I have found 5 sons and 6 daughters). I have his birth and that of his wife Helen Guthrie, and I know that Helen died in Kent in 1928.

As for the known children
Helen Maria married William Hamilton Ritchie in India in 1896
Mary Isabella married Adam Brack Boyd in India in 1888
William Patrick died in India in 1910
David Onslow died in South Africa in 1960
Alexandrina Colquhoun married John Roland Errington in India in 1893
Laura Winifred married Dugald Alexander MacMillan in India in 1896
Duncan Alexander, born 1878, probably died in infancy
Beatrice Agnes married Bertram Vernon Mitford in Jersey in 1900, as you have kindly told me
Florence married Ernest Bolden in London in 1919
Harry was killed in France in 1916
Colin McDermid was killed in Flanders in 1915

Have you got Margaret, who was with Bertram and Beatrice in Jersey in 1901?

Margaret G Allardice, sister in law, 19 b India.

I think she died as Margaret Gwendoline Vere-Stead in Devon in 1958, aged 75.

An online tree has her born at Mysore, India on 15 Jan 1882 & married 1909 in Valparaiso, Chile to Redmond Morres Vere-Stead, who died at Iquique, Chile on 30 May 1937.  One son is attributed to them: John Ozanne Vere-Stead, born 18 Dec 1909 at Virjinia, Tarapaca, Chile.
Title: Re: Who was Bertram Mitford's wife?
Post by: Forfarian on Sunday 11 June 17 17:33 BST (UK)
No, Margaret is one I didn't have. Thank you very much indeed. I had looked for Bertram in 1901, but did not find him.
Title: Re: Who was Bertram Mitford's wife?
Post by: Sandstones on Saturday 05 August 17 10:23 BST (UK)
Hi all
The Allardice family in India are the offspring of William Patrick Allardice , Writer to the signet, who studied in Edinburgh . Captain Allardice was born in Malta. The family are linked to Brechin and the Guthries of Brechin. I am the grandson of David onslow Allardice, who settled in South africa after The Boer war. The Indian family were born on Mylomony Coffee estate , in Karanataka, near Mysore.
See my GENI profile
Neville
Title: Re: Who was Bertram Mitford's wife?
Post by: Forfarian on Saturday 05 August 17 10:47 BST (UK)
I am the grandson of David onslow Allardice, who settled in South africa after The Boer war.
See my GENI profile
Hello, Neville. You and I must be 6th cousins once removed (!). I have loads of information about the Guthrie/Brechin connection, and various Indian connections, including the birth and marriage details of several of the Allardice family there. However I cannot find you on Geni. There seem to be several references on A******y to your grandfather.

Once you have made one more post to this forum, I will be able to contact you by Private Message to exchange e-mail addresses if you want to compare notes. Look forward to hearing from you.
Title: Re: Who was Bertram Mitford's wife?
Post by: Hertslet on Sunday 03 September 17 11:18 BST (UK)
I am Beatrice Mitford's great neice. Her brother (my grandfather David Onslow Allardice) first travelled to South Africa as a volunteer in Lumsden's Horse which was a volunteer regiment of tea and coffee planters during the Boer War along with his brother Hugh (after whom my own father is named). Both David and Hugh made it back to India after the Boer War but I can find no record of what happened to Hugh after that.
Title: Re: Who was Bertram Mitford's wife?
Post by: Forfarian on Sunday 10 September 17 12:07 BST (UK)
Thank you, Hertslet. I apologise for not responding more promptly, but I have been away from home and unable to check my main database.

Like Neville, you must be my 6th cousin once removed! Pleased to 'meet' you too.

I read somewhere that William Alexander Allardice and Helen Guthrie had 13 children, 4 of whom were sons, but I have only found 12 so far, including 5 sons. I did not have anything on Hugh, so he must be the 13th child and the 6th of the 4 sons. 

All information about this Allardice family will be of interest, and I have lots of information about the family of Helen Guthrie. We won't be able to contact one another off-forum until you have made 3 posts to the forum. So please do post twice more, then we can get in touch direct.
Title: Re: Who was Bertram Mitford's wife?
Post by: Hertslet on Friday 15 September 17 19:47 BST (UK)
Thanks that is interesting. I was about 4 or 5 when I met Aunt Beatrice - she travelled by Union Castle liner to Durban in South Africa to visit my grandfather, Her brother, David Onslow. I have a photograph of taken on her arrival with my father and I.
Title: Re: Who was Bertram Mitford's wife?
Post by: Hertslet on Friday 15 September 17 19:49 BST (UK)
William Alexander was apparently the first chairman of the Kadur Country Club in Karnataka.