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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => West Lothian (Linlithgowshire) => Topic started by: kiwican on Sunday 11 June 17 10:27 BST (UK)

Title: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Sunday 11 June 17 10:27 BST (UK)
William Henderson  born 1849 bo'ness linlithgowshire   married  margaret casey from  newton  glasgow  date of marriage 23 june 1872 at crofthead lanarkshire scotland her father was william casey and mother was Mary they went to new zealand in 1874 and lived in westport waimangarua  there they had children william peter margaret james  and isabella i am trying to trace my gg grand fathers family  he lived in linlithgowshire  . how can i find his marriage certificate i been lookin g on many sights but no luck i got the place and date but no luck of recording  can someone please advise me what to do
Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: Forfarian on Sunday 11 June 17 12:00 BST (UK)
William Henderson  born 1849 bo'ness linlithgowshire   married  margaret casey from  newton  glasgow  date of marriage 23 june 1872 at crofthead lanarkshire scotland her father was william casey and mother was Mary they went to new zealand in 1874 and lived in westport waimangarua  there they had children william peter margaret james  and isabella i am trying to trace my gg grand fathers family  he lived in linlithgowshire  . how can i find his marriage certificate i been lookin g on many sights but no luck i got the place and date but no luck of recording  can someone please advise me what to do

You say you have tried 'many sights'. There is only one reliable site for looking for this sort of information. See http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=714261.0

Having said that, there is no listing of such a marriage in the index at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk so there is obviously something odd about this marriage.

Various possibilities spring to mind

- Did they just invent a date and place of marriage for the NZ birth records?
- Did they marry by declaration before witnesses, but not get round to having the marriage registered?
- Did they change their names on emigration, for some reason?

The place of (the alleged) marriage doesn't really help, because there isn't a parish or registration district of Crofthead. As a place name, Crofthead is very common. A quick check on http://www.scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/ tells me that Crofthead crops up in 10 of the Name Books for Lanarkshire alone, and there are many more references in other counties.

SP has 139 marriages of a William to a Margaret in Lanarkshire in 1872. Using the IGI at FamilySearch, none of these marriages were on 23 June, so that method doesn't work.

First of all, have you got either or both of them in the censuses before they emigrated? And did they have a child in Scotland before they emigrated?
Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: kiwican on Sunday 11 June 17 12:25 BST (UK)
thank you i saw what i think is both of the on the censuses 1861 and 1871 but just gives name and age not real address just area
William Henderson  born 1849 bo'ness linlithgowshire   married  margaret casey from  newton  glasgow  date of marriage 23 june 1872 at crofthead lanarkshire scotland her father was william casey and mother was Mary they went to new zealand in 1874 and lived in westport waimangarua  there they had children william peter margaret james  and isabella i am trying to trace my gg grand fathers family  he lived in linlithgowshire  . how can i find his marriage certificate i been lookin g on many sights but no luck i got the place and date but no luck of recording  can someone please advise me what to do

You say you have tried 'many sights'. There is only one reliable site for looking for this sort of information. See http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=714261.0

Having said that, there is no listing of such a marriage in the index at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk so there is obviously something odd about this marriage.

Various possibilities spring to mind

- Did they just invent a date and place of marriage for the NZ birth records?
- Did they marry by declaration before witnesses, but not get round to having the marriage registered?
- Did they change their names on emigration, for some reason?

The place of (the alleged) marriage doesn't really help, because there isn't a parish or registration district of Crofthead. As a place name, Crofthead is very common. A quick check on http://www.scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/ tells me that Crofthead crops up in 10 of the Name Books for Lanarkshire alone, and there are many more references in other counties.

SP has 139 marriages of a William to a Margaret in Lanarkshire in 1872. Using the IGI at FamilySearch, none of these marriages were on 23 June, so that method doesn't work.

First of all, have you got either or both of them in the censuses before they emigrated? And did they have a child in Scotland before they emigrated?
Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: Forfarian on Sunday 11 June 17 14:22 BST (UK)
thank you i saw what i think is both of the on the censuses 1861 and 1871 but just gives name and age not real address just area
Did you look at the original on Scotland's People? Not all the available transcriptions give all the information that is in the original.
Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: kiwican on Sunday 11 June 17 15:14 BST (UK)
thank you i saw what i think is both of the on the censuses 1861 and 1871 but just gives name and age not real address just area
Did you look at the original on Scotland's People? Not all the available transcriptions give all the information that is in the original.
hi again  do i find out the address of the person in the censuses can i order it the full thing like who else was at the address like the mother father my ggg parents on that censuses or is that pushing it too far 
Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: Rosinish on Sunday 11 June 17 15:26 BST (UK)
Hi,

Can you post what you have found so far please as a reference?

All names on your transcriptions will be the people in the household.


Annie
Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: kiwican on Sunday 11 June 17 15:54 BST (UK)
Hi,
one censuse file number is 1851  1042511 for william and file number 103847 1861 for margaret its dosent give other people just them they wore children then hope that is a help
Can you post what you have found so far please as a reference?

All names on your transcriptions will be the people in the household.


Annie
Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: Forfarian on Sunday 11 June 17 17:12 BST (UK)
hi again  do i find out the address of the person in the censuses can i order it the full thing like who else was at the address like the mother father my ggg parents on that censuses or is that pushing it too far
No, it is not pushing it too far.

But so far you have been using indexes or transcriptions which do not contain all the information. They are fine to use as finding aids but you must look at the originals of the censuses at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk. That should tell you the address, who else was in the household and how they were related to one another.

You don't need to 'order' anything. You can view each original census online for less than the cost of a cup of coffee.

BTW forget about the numbers you quoted. They are reference numbers created by whatever site you looked at to get the index entries and they are no use for looking up the originals. What you need to know to find them is where they were in those censuses; normally an index tells you that.

Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: Rosinish on Sunday 11 June 17 19:46 BST (UK)
BTW forget about the numbers you quoted. They are reference numbers created by whatever site you looked at to get the index entries and they are no use for looking up the originals.

Thanks Forfarian,

I did ask "Can you post what you have found so far please as a reference?" which was asking for the info. not reference numbers.

A link would have been an idea as those numbers don't tell us a thing as you've more or less stated.

Annie

Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: kiwican on Sunday 11 June 17 23:19 BST (UK)
BTW forget about the numbers you quoted. They are reference numbers created by whatever site you looked at to get the index entries and they are no use for looking up the originals.
hi im trying to send a letter that i got with there imformation l page but this sight wont let me send the page it tells me 900 pb  so anoying how can i send to you apart from thisthanks from peter again
Thanks Forfarian,

I did ask "Can you post what you have found so far please as a reference?" which was asking for the info. not reference numbers.

A link would have been an idea as those numbers don't tell us a thing as you've more or less stated.

Annie
Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: Rosinish on Monday 12 June 17 00:43 BST (UK)
Hi Kiwi,

Can you please just type the info. you see (transcribe).

Annie
Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: tidybooks on Monday 12 June 17 11:54 BST (UK)
Hi All,

Peter emailed me the copy of death certificate of Margaret Casey,who died at 81 yo on 14 September 1934 at Point Chevalier, 24 Moa Road. she was a widow who had married twice, second husband Michael O'Connell who she married at 63. She was buried at Hillsborough on 16 Sep 1934.

It states she was first married at 18 in Scotland to William Henderson and had 6 sons and 3 daughters. (I had miscounted to 5 sons, changed)


It also states her parents were William and Mary Casey (no maiden surname), William was a miner apparently.

I have searched Scotland Peoples and LDS Family Search site and cannot get a marriage of William Henderson and Margaret Casey.

Further questions for Peter,

1 - Do you know when and where they landed in NZ?

2 - Can you list the children of William and Margaret Henderson's 5 sons and 3 daughters names and approx date of births?

3 - Do you know her mother's maiden surname?

Tom Buchanan
Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: Rosinish on Monday 12 June 17 12:35 BST (UK)
This looks like it could be the marriage?

Could Margaret have been a preferred name?

HENDERSON WILLIAM     CASEY KATE
1900
644/8 387
Milton

I had a relative who was known to my aunt as 'aunt Maggie' but when I eventually found her, she was born as Lilian, married as Lilian yet she was on the 1901 & 1911 as Maggie.

My aunt also knew her marital surname (a blessing in disguise) or I would probably have still been searching for her to this day  ::)
My aunt was born 1930s i.e. Lilian was still known as Maggie after her marriage in 1915.

Annie

ADDED The marriage would confirm both sets of parents names as well as mothers maiden names
Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: Forfarian on Monday 12 June 17 12:36 BST (UK)
Hmmm. If her age at death is accurate, that would mean she was born in 1852/1853. Add 18 to that, and she would have been married in 1870/1871. So her age doesn't tally with the date of marriage supplied, but it's only out by a year or two, which isn't unusual.

Is there any evidence to say where she was born? Could she, for instance, have been born in Ireland?
Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: kiwican on Monday 12 June 17 12:42 BST (UK)
Hi All,
hi thete again enclosed is some more imformation on my great grad father and gg mother my great grand mothers parents names wore william and mary  casey i dont know her mothers madien name  they came to new zealand on a ship called Strathnaver on the 1 st june 1874  and arrived in wellington on the 31st augaust 1874 from wellington they went to westport in the south island from there went to a mining town called warmongers  a mining town coal and some gold  it is there they gave birth to my gran father william on the 26 February 1877 then they had a daughter called margaret born on the 7 th september 1879 then in another son called peter born on the 28 th march 1881  then,,in 25 december 1883 had a daughter called isabella  then had a son called james born on the29 june 1890 some time later the mines must have slowed down i hird that my grand father went to australia and came back to nz when he was 20 he went to katikati and met a eva dunn she was born 1899 they lived ther life in katikati and waihi area they had my father named William so many william on 28 th december 1926  plus a daughter called beverly  later married a  shine   well my great grand father has gone of the radar now  my great grand mother some how re married and became an o'connell and died in september 14 tg 1934 my life long dream is to find where we really come from my two sons and daught keep asking me the question i just say i think it linlithgowshire my great grand father  and great grand mother in newton glasgow area  my health is not the best and i am pray that i could take my sons to where there great grand father was born and a merrical that we could go back further in the line i was thinking of getting the henderson clan dna test to try and get closer linage can any body give me an idea is it worth the cost of it  that is about as much imformation i have i been looking for weeks trying to locate in differnt sights still zero marriage certificates  hope i can get help my time is running out   thanks for your help so far to all i will waite for a good news email  soonnn
Peter emailed me the copy of death certificate of Margaret Casey,who died at 81 yo on 14 September 1934 at Point Chevalier, 24 Moa Road. she was a widow who had married twice, second husband Michael O'Connell who she married at 63. She was buried at Hillsborough on 16 Sep 1934.

It states she was first married at 18 in Scotland to William Henderson and had 5 sons and 3 daughters.

It also states her parents were William and Mary Casey (no maiden surname), William was a miner apparently.

I have searched Scotland Peoples and LDS Family Search site and cannot get a marriage of William Henderson and Margaret Casey.

Further questions for Peter,

1 - Do you know when and where they landed in NZ?

2 - Can you list the children of William and Margaret Henderson's 5 sons and 3 daughters names and approx date of births?

3 - Do you know her mother's maiden surname?

Tom Buchanan
Hi All,

Peter emailed me the copy of death certificate of Margaret Casey,who died at 81 yo on 14 September 1934 at Point Chevalier, 24 Moa Road. she was a widow who had married twice, second husband Michael O'Connell who she married at 63. She was buried at Hillsborough on 16 Sep 1934.

It states she was first married at 18 in Scotland to William Henderson and had 5 sons and 3 daughters.

It also states her parents were William and Mary Casey (no maiden surname), William was a miner apparently.

I have searched Scotland Peoples and LDS Family Search site and cannot get a marriage of William Henderson and Margaret Casey.

Further questions for Peter,

1 - Do you know when and where they landed in NZ?

2 - Can you list the children of William and Margaret Henderson's 5 sons and 3 daughters names and approx date of births?

3 - Do you know her mother's maiden surname?

Tom Buchanan
Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: tidybooks on Monday 12 June 17 12:43 BST (UK)
Hi All,

Yes, the marriage seems a bit late, in her death certificate she was married at 18, and was 81 at time of death in 1934, so looking around 1871 for marriage.

Ireland is a possibility. Will do some chasing there.

Tom Buchanan
Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: tidybooks on Monday 12 June 17 13:06 BST (UK)
Hi Peter and all,

Will try our best to get your questions answered soon as. There is a co-incidence the ship that they arrived on was the "Strathnaver", that is my address, 7 Strathnaver Gardens.

From your reply and the death certificate, I have taken the following, can you fill any gaps.

William Henderson,    b 26 Feb 1877 Warmongers. SI. (GGF)
Margaret Henderson, b 07 Sep 1879
Peter Henderson        b 28 Mar 1881
Isabella Henderson,   b 25 Dec 1883
James Henderson,     b 29 Jun 1890



On NZ Death Certificate that you emailed me,

Ages and sex of living issue, at date of death.

M 61
M 53 possible Peter Henderson, b 28 Mar 1881
M 49
M 47
M 43 possible James Henderson, b 29 Jun 1890 ( should have been 44)
M 40

F 59
F 50  possible Isabella Henderson, b 25 Dec 1883
F 46

Tom Buchanan
Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: kiwican on Monday 12 June 17 13:18 BST (UK)
Hi Peter and all,
there was also a peter born on the28th march 1881 in waimangaroa  issabella 25th 1883 waimangaroa james born 29 th june 1890 waimangora  maragret born  7 th september 1879 at westport so most born in mining town of waimangora 
Will try our best to get your questions answered soon as. There is a co-incidence the ship that they arrived on was the "Strathnaver", that is my address, 7 Strathnaver Gardens.

From your reply and the death certificate, I have taken the following, can you fill any gaps.

William Henderson,    b 26 Feb 1877 Warmongers. SI. (GGF)
Margaret Henderson, b 07 Sep 1879
Peter Henderson        b 28 Mar 1881
Isabella Henderson,   b 25 Dec 1883
James Henderson,     b 29 Jun 1890



On NZ Death Certificate that you emailed me,

Ages and sex of living issue, at date of death.

M 61
M 53 possible Peter Henderson, b 28 Mar 1881
M 49
M 47
M 43 possible James Henderson, b 29 Jun 1890 ( should have been 44)
M 40

F 59
F 50  possible Isabella Henderson, b 25 Dec 1883
F 46

Tom Buchanan
Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: Rosinish on Monday 12 June 17 13:20 BST (UK)
Sorry folks,

Should have done the arithmetic  ::)

Not good doing 2/3 things at one time popping in & out.

Too busy trying to find matching names I guess  ???

Annie
Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: tidybooks on Monday 12 June 17 13:57 BST (UK)
Hi All,


While searching for passenger lists for the Strathnaver, came across this article, that suggests the Strathnaver was rescued by the SS Stormbird on 31st Aug 1874. Click on link.

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/WEST18740915.2.17 (https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/WEST18740915.2.17)

Tom Buchanan
Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: kiwican on Monday 12 June 17 14:06 BST (UK)
Hi All,yes the strathnaver sunk on 1875 near the auckland islands lucky  my gg grand parents came in 1874 talk about fate just now cant find there marriage papers


While searching for passenger lists for the Strathnaver, came across this article, that suggests the Strathnaver was rescued by the SS Stormbird on 31st Aug 1874. Click on link.

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/WEST18740915.2.17 (https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/WEST18740915.2.17)

Tom Buchanan
Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: kiwican on Monday 12 June 17 14:09 BST (UK)
i found them on the passanger list dated 1 june 1874 left london that day got wellington 31 augaust 1874  i found there names on the passanger list says name and place of birth linlithgowshire a mine and maragret henderson 20 y old
Hi All,yes the strathnaver sunk on 1875 near the auckland islands lucky  my gg grand parents came in 1874 talk about fate just now cant find there marriage papers


While searching for passenger lists for the Strathnaver, came across this article, that suggests the Strathnaver was rescued by the SS Stormbird on 31st Aug 1874. Click on link.

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/WEST18740915.2.17 (https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/WEST18740915.2.17)

Tom Buchanan
Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: Rosinish on Monday 12 June 17 14:21 BST (UK)
"the passanger list says name and place of birth linlithgowshire a mine and maragret henderson 20 y old"

Can you please confirm if this is a name (is that the correct spelling) or what is the correct spelling & what was the sex/age?

If that was a child born in Scotland the marital details will be on the birth.

Annie

Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: kiwican on Monday 12 June 17 14:30 BST (UK)
"the passanger list says name and place of birth linlithgowshire a mine and maragret henderson 20 y old"

Can you please confirm if this is a name (is that the correct spelling) or what is the correct spelling & what was the sex/age?all the ship list said was william henderson linlithgoshire miner age 24 and maragret henderson 20  on the strathnaver out of london 1 june 1874

If that was a child born in Scotland the marital details will be on the birth.

Annie
Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: kiwican on Monday 12 June 17 14:36 BST (UK)
"the passanger list says name and place of birth linlithgowshire a mine and maragret henderson 20 y old"
on the lboat list under henderson there was also a john aged 1    then another john aged 20 and a isabella aged 11 the john henderson aged 20 said in transit to s/m not sure where s/m is i thought samoa ..?... on that one dont know if related to william or maragret  though
Can you please confirm if this is a name (is that the correct spelling) or what is the correct spelling & what was the sex/age?all the ship list said was william henderson linlithgoshire miner age 24 and maragret henderson 20  on the strathnaver out of london 1 june 1874

If that was a child born in Scotland the marital details will be on the birth.

Annie
Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: kiwican on Monday 12 June 17 14:46 BST (UK)
"the passanger list says name and place of birth linlithgowshire a mine and maragret henderson 20 y old"but it said all from linlithgowshire
on the lboat list under henderson there was also a john aged 1    then another john aged 20 and a isabella aged 11 the john henderson aged 20 said in transit to s/m not sure where s/m is i thought samoa ..?... on that one dont know if related to william or maragret  though
Can you please confirm if this is a name (is that the correct spelling) or what is the correct spelling & what was the sex/age?all the ship list said was william henderson linlithgoshire miner age 24 and maragret henderson 20  on the strathnaver out of london 1 june 1874

If that was a child born in Scotland the marital details will be on the birth.

Annie
Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: Forfarian on Monday 12 June 17 15:15 BST (UK)
kiwican, may I suggest that you don't click on 'Quote' at the top right of a post. Click instead on 'Reply' at the bottom. It's all too easy to re-send previous messages by using the 'quote' button.
Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: tidybooks on Monday 12 June 17 19:13 BST (UK)
"On the boat list under Henderson there was also a John aged 1    then another John aged 20 and an Isabella aged 11. The John Henderson aged 20 said in transit to s/m not sure where s/m is,  I thought Samoa ..?... On that one, I don’t know if related to William or Margaret  though."

Peter, It could be that John Henderson aged 1 is the Male born 1873,

Ages and sex of living issue, at date of death.

M 61 possible b 1873 John Henderson as on passenger list.
M 53 possible Peter Henderson b 28 Mar 1881
M 49 possible b 1885
M 47 possible b 1887
M 43 possible James Henderson, b 29 Jun 1890 ( should have been 44)
M 40 possible b 1894

F 59 possible b 1875
F 50 possible Isabella Henderson, b 25 Dec 1883
F 46 possible b 1888


Any chance that you could email me a copy of the passenger's list of the Strathnaver that brought them to NZ.

Tom Buchanan
Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: kiwican on Monday 12 June 17 21:00 BST (UK)
"On the boat list under Henderson there was also a John aged 1    then another John aged 20 and an Isabella aged 11. The John Henderson aged 20 said in transit to s/m not sure where s/m is,  I thought Samoa ..?... On that one, I don’t know if related to William or Margaret  though."

Peter, It could be that John Henderson aged 1 is the Male born 1873,
i need to email the boat list may i please have an email
Ages and sex of living issue, at date of death.
"On the boat list under Henderson there was also a John aged 1    then another John aged 20 and an Isabella aged 11. The John Henderson aged 20 said in transit to s/m not sure where s/m is,  I thought Samoa ..?... On that one, I don’t know if related to William or Margaret  though."

Peter, It could be that John Henderson aged 1 is the Male born 1873,

Ages and sex of living issue, at date of death.

M 61 possible b 1873 John Henderson as on passenger list.
M 53 possible Peter Henderson b 28 Mar 1881
M 49 possible b 1885
M 47 possible b 1887
M 43 possible James Henderson, b 29 Jun 1890 ( should have been 44)
M 40 possible b 1894

F 59 possible b 1875
F 50 possible Isabella Henderson, b 25 Dec 1883
F 46 possible b 1888


Any chance that you could email me a copy of the passenger's list of the Strathnaver that brought them to NZ.

Tom Buchanan

M 61 possible b 1873 John Henderson as on passenger list.
M 53 possible Peter Henderson b 28 Mar 1881
M 49 possible b 1885
M 47 possible b 1887
M 43 possible James Henderson, b 29 Jun 1890 ( should have been 44)
M 40 possible b 1894

F 59 possible b 1875
F 50 possible Isabella Henderson, b 25 Dec 1883
F 46 possible b 1888


Any chance that you could email me a copy of the passenger's list of the Strathnaver that brought them to NZ.

Tom Buchanan
Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: tidybooks on Monday 12 June 17 21:11 BST (UK)
Peter,
Can I suggest that you don't click on 'Quote' at the top right of a post. Click instead on 'Reply' at the bottom. It is making it very difficult to see your reply. I will send my email address again by PM, but I already sent you it earlier.

Tom Buchanan
Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: kiwican on Monday 12 June 17 21:19 BST (UK)
Peter,
Can I suggest that you don't click on 'Quote' at the top right of a post. Click instead on 'Reply' at the bottom. It is making it very difficult to see your reply. I will send my email address again by PM, but I already sent you it earlier.
sorry i have one eye and am using a i pad i will send list later on to day hopefully it works thanks from peter henderson
Tom Buchanan
Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: tidybooks on Monday 12 June 17 21:38 BST (UK)
Peter,

Please do not use the "Quote" button, it is just sending to me, what I have just sent you. It is vey difficult to follow.

Tom Buchanan

PS I missed your note about only having 1 eye, because it was at the end of what I typed to you. Just look for the "Reply" button at the bottom, it will make things easier in the long run.
Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: kiwican on Monday 12 June 17 21:49 BST (UK)
i just tryed to send the list to your emil hope it worked im new to this i pad stuff and just having one eye that has ha a cornia graft thats my only excuse 
Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: tidybooks on Monday 12 June 17 22:29 BST (UK)
Hi Peter,

No problem, you are doing well with the one eye, we are glad that you are trying to get your research done. I notice that you have found the "Reply" button, should make it easier for you and the others helping.

Still looking at the passenger list, they do not give too much information, unlike others I have seen. I am lost concerning the "trans to s/m" and "trans to s/w" on the list. Not sure if they relate to a place like Samoa.

Tom Buchanan

PS Worked it out ,"trans to s/w" is transfer to Single Women passenger list,
and "trans to s/m" is transfer to Single Male passenger list.
Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: kiwican on Monday 12 June 17 22:36 BST (UK)
might mean sydney   melbourne  not sure
Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: kiwican on Monday 12 June 17 22:40 BST (UK)
i have been trying to look for that child named john aged 1 im putting in 1873 birth then my ggrand parents names ect cant find it  i wonder if that other john aged 20 is his brother and isabella age 11 his nice one wonders
Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: Forfarian on Monday 12 June 17 22:42 BST (UK)
If s/m means Sydney/Melbourne why would it be lower case? And what would s/w mean then?
Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: tidybooks on Monday 12 June 17 22:43 BST (UK)
Hi All,


Worked it out ,"trans to s/w" is transfer to Single Women passenger list,
and "trans to s/m" is transfer to Single Men passenger list.

Tom
Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: kiwican on Monday 12 June 17 22:45 BST (UK)
i dont really know what it stands for some one in shipping history might know
Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: Forfarian on Monday 12 June 17 22:47 BST (UK)
Worked it out ,"trans to s/w" is transfer to Single Women passenger list,
and "trans to s/m" is transfer to Single Men passenger list.
Oh, very good, Tom :)
Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: kiwican on Monday 12 June 17 22:47 BST (UK)
ok i know the single women wore sent to an island near wellington quarantine  much line north head in sydney and alice island in new york
Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: kiwican on Monday 12 June 17 22:52 BST (UK)
a place in wellington called somes island it is said single woman went there
Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: tidybooks on Monday 12 June 17 23:22 BST (UK)
Hi All,

I suspect that William Henderson aged 24 and John Henderson aged 20 are brothers, and I have managed to get 2 of them on SP website.

William Henderson parents James Henderson/Agnes Marshal 25 Jun 1850 Kilsyth, Stirlingshire.
John Henderson parents James Henderson/Agnes Marshal 26 Mar 1854 Kilsyth, Stirlingshire.

Kilsyth is a mining area, so can imagine these miners moving about for work etc.

Tom Buchanan
Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: kiwican on Monday 12 June 17 23:30 BST (UK)
thank you tom i hope its a lead to marriage papers sooner or later
Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: Forfarian on Monday 12 June 17 23:37 BST (UK)
There are also Barbara Smith Henderson, baptised 24 December 1851, and an unnamed child born 9 February 1856.

1851 Census, Birngreen Schoolhouse, Kilsyth
James Henderson, 41, parochial schoolmaster, born Airdrie; wife Agnes, 26, born Linlithgow; son William, 11 months, born Kilsyth, and a servant lass. No mention of Bo'ness anywhere.
Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: Rosinish on Monday 12 June 17 23:39 BST (UK)
TIMELINE

c1849 birth of William Henderson in Bo'ness, Linlithgow-shire (What was the source for this)?
c1854 birth of Margaret Casey (from death info.)
1872 (23 Jun) married Margaret Casey at Crofthead, (Carnwath)? Lanarkshire (Dau of William Casey and Mary) – (Surname u/k)
1874 Immigrated to New Zealand
Pre c1917 death of William Henderson
c1917 remarriage to Michael O'Connell (who she married at 63) – (from death info.)
1934 (14 Sep) death of Margaret (Casey/Henderson/O'Connell)

The death cert. for William Henderson is what’s needed now.
Without a specific date, have you checked if he was still alive when any/all of his children married?

CHILDREN (Some of)....

William Henderson b 26 Feb 1877 Warmongers. SI. (GGF)
Margaret Henderson b 07 Sep 1879
Peter Henderson b 28 Mar 1881
Isabella Henderson 25 Dec 1883
James Henderson b 29 Jun 1890

Tom has identified a possible son John b 1873 Scotland i.e. if we assume Linlithgow there are these to consider;

HENDERSON JOHN 1873
664/ 32 Carriden

HENDERSON JOHN 1874
663/ 228 Bo'Ness

HENDERSON JOHN 1874
663/ 190 Bo'Ness


Annie
Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: tidybooks on Monday 12 June 17 23:49 BST (UK)
There are also Barbara Smith Henderson, baptised 24 December 1851, and an unnamed child born 9 February 1856.

1851 Census, Birngreen Schoolhouse, Kilsyth
James Henderson, 41, parochial schoolmaster, born Airdrie; wife Agnes, 26, born Linlithgow; son William, 11 months, born Kilsyth, and a servant lass. No mention of Bo'ness anywhere.

Great find, Forfarian, I missed it. No mention of Bo'ness, I think kiwican did not start this topic, if I get time may ask moderator to split the topic from post 2 and get it renamed Henderson of Linlithgow.

Tom
Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: kiwican on Monday 12 June 17 23:53 BST (UK)
we have record of williams death it is said that after mining slowed down in 1880s some of them went to australia my grand father another william came back from australia about 1900 he went to kati kati waihi mining area and started his life with eva josaphine dunn  But my great grand father William has gone missing  some say he went back to scotland strange would one wanted to go back then.?..... so i guess never know what happend as long i can trace his marriage there in scotland you gave me some good leads on him that is so much appreciated from us here in sydney au   we know maragret went on in life re married i was trying to find a a divorce paper from nz on them no luck
Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: tidybooks on Monday 12 June 17 23:56 BST (UK)
TIMELINE

c1849 birth of William Henderson in Bo'ness, Linlithgow-shire (From passenger list)?
c1854 birth of Margaret Casey (from death info.)
1872 (23 Jun) married Margaret Casey at Crofthead, (Carnwath)? Lanarkshire (Dau of William Casey and Mary) – (Surname u/k)
1874 Immigrated to New Zealand
Pre c1917 death of William Henderson
c1917 remarriage to Michael O'Connell (who she married at 63) – (from death info.)
1934 (14 Sep) death of Margaret (Casey/Henderson/O'Connell)

The death cert. for William Henderson is what’s needed now.
Without a specific date, have you checked if he was still alive when any/all of his children married?

No, on one of the posts, Peter (kiwican) said that Willian Henderson done a runner, but not sure when he disappeared. I do not think he knows when/where he died.

His last child was born about 1894, so he must have been there at least 9 months before that. It is unfortunate that his trail has gone cold.

Tom
Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: Rosinish on Tuesday 13 June 17 00:13 BST (UK)
Such a pity Kiwi you didn't give all known details in the beginning.

Looking from the prospective of your info. that William & Margaret were living in Linlithgow can you please state where the Linlithgow connection was sourced/found whether on a formal document or other, won't matter which but it's nowhere near any of the places mentioned by the finds of Forfarian or Tidybooks  ???

Annie

Got your message Tom as I was posting.....I didn't note earlier that William was elsewhere/disappeared.

Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: kiwican on Tuesday 13 June 17 00:21 BST (UK)
i got it from the strathnaver ship list ant the westport new zealand  westport genealogy group in 1996  it said they married in crofthead lanarkshire 23 june 1872 plus had the names and birthdates of my grand father and his other brothers and sister thats what im going on no paper from scotland just what westport genealogy gave me 20 years ago im sorry have this mixed up confuse you all i email the letter from them to tom i think whit that imformation
Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: kiwican on Tuesday 13 June 17 00:24 BST (UK)
not easy for me got bad eyes please excuse spelling
Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: Rosinish on Tuesday 13 June 17 00:55 BST (UK)
I'm really sorry about your eye problem Kiwi!

I'm assuming then that William & Margaret were living in Linlithgow prior to sailing to NZ?

I think a look at the Bo'Ness birth(s) for John may be of benefit to either identify or eliminate the family?

Annie
Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: kiwican on Tuesday 13 June 17 01:15 BST (UK)
getting late at your guys qth  dont you sleep 10 am in sydney its good people like you try to help us guys down under my dream is to take my children to my gg grandparents birth place before i pass away i am thinking of getting dna to find out more on my lines i carried on the tradition of naming my son william charles henderson
Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: Rosinish on Tuesday 13 June 17 01:34 BST (UK)
Yes it's early 'a.m' here  ;)

I guess it all depends on what hours work/days off/holidays etc. involves as not everyone is in a 9 to 5 job  ;D

You will not be disappointed with a trip to Scotland as it's a beautiful country!

Hopefully with the help of others & with more research on Census' & Valuation Rolls you may find quite a few different places where your ancestors lived?

Annie
Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: Rosinish on Tuesday 13 June 17 02:30 BST (UK)
HENDERSON JOHN 1873
664/ 32 Carriden

HENDERSON JOHN 1874
663/ 228 Bo'Ness

HENDERSON JOHN 1874
663/ 190 Bo'Ness

Please discard the above as it looks like they have different parents names (familysearch.org)

Annie
Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: kiwican on Tuesday 13 June 17 02:39 BST (UK)
thanks again i hope by some miracle the wedding papers located to show his parents name and that the names you gave could match up to each other i better finish off the movie merlin
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: tidybooks on Tuesday 13 June 17 10:56 BST (UK)
Hi Peter and all,

Asked Moderator to change name of search to "Hendersons of Linlithgowshire" as the Bo'ness came from the person who initially made the post. So now moved to a separate post of it's own.

Tom Buchanan



Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Rosinish on Tuesday 13 June 17 15:17 BST (UK)
Hi Pete,

I have spent quite some time trying to locate a John Henderson born 1872/1873 but there's too many which conflict with all the place names mentioned although there are many possibles (far too many) in various areas ::)

With the above & based on the fact we can't find a/the marriage for William & Margaret it may be quite possible that John was the illegitimate son of Margaret who may have taken on William's surname when they immigrated & John brought up with the surname Henderson?

Is it possible for you to find any documentation for John in NZ?
Have you confirmed by any means that there was a son named John of similar year of birth?
Have you searched for a marriage or death for him?
Have you found any info. at all on any other siblings which may provide his name such as a witness on a marriage, registering a death, mentioned in obituaries etc?
Do you have any info. at all on the siblings of your ancestor?
Do you know where/when all married, died & were buried?


Annie



Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Rosinish on Tuesday 13 June 17 16:18 BST (UK)
Pete,

Can you confirm the names/dates of the missing children from this list please?

William Henderson,    b 26 Feb 1877 Warmongers. SI. (GGF)
Margaret Henderson, b 07 Sep 1879
Peter Henderson        b 28 Mar 1881
Isabella Henderson,   b 25 Dec 1883
James Henderson,     b 29 Jun 1890

Forfarian & Tom seem to have found the likely family of William.

Looking at the above it doesn't look as though they used the conventional naming pattern (I have the same) but it would be interesting to know the 'missing' names?

John (if he was 'their' son) was named after neither g/father as William's father was James & Margaret's father was William.

I think more is needed to find out if John was their/her son from records in NZ?


Annie
Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: tidybooks on Tuesday 13 June 17 17:29 BST (UK)
Hi All,

I suspect that William Henderson aged 24 and John Henderson aged 20 are brothers, and I have managed to get 2 of them on SP website.

William Henderson parents James Henderson/Agnes Marshal 25 Jun 1850 Kilsyth, Stirlingshire.
John Henderson parents James Henderson/Agnes Marshal 26 Mar 1854 Kilsyth, Stirlingshire.

Tom Buchanan


There are also Barbara Smith Henderson, baptised 24 December 1851, and an unnamed child born 9 February 1856.

1851 Census, Birngreen Schoolhouse, Kilsyth
James Henderson, 41, parochial schoolmaster, born Airdrie; wife Agnes, 26, born Linlithgow; son William, 11 months, born Kilsyth, and a servant lass. No mention of Bo'ness anywhere.

I have been looking into this family trying to prove what I think is fact, i.e. that William 24 and John 20 are brothers. I have found a DC for their mother Agnes Marshall, parents were John Marshall ( Landed Proprietor)and Barbara Smith. She died at Kilsyth Schoolhouse, aged 311/2 and left a young family, William 5, Barbara 4 and John 2.

Still finding difficulty pinning down William in census of 1871, will try that next, hopefully lead to a marriage certificate.

Tom
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: tidybooks on Tuesday 13 June 17 18:35 BST (UK)
Hi All,

In 1861 William Henderson is a 10yo scholar at his father's school in Kilsyth, James Henderson his father was also the Registrar of Births, etc. His brother, John was 7yo scholar. They had a 1yo step-sister Janet, whose mother was Bethia Carrick Kennedy, married in 1860.

Tom
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Forfarian on Tuesday 13 June 17 22:18 BST (UK)
I am unsure about this family in Kilsyth. First of all, the children were born in Stirlingshire, not Linlithgowshire (West Lothian) and James' occupation of schoolmaster and registrar doesn't sit comfortably with being a coal miner.

James H and Bethia Kennedy also had a daughter Helen Mitchell Henderson, born 19 March 1864 in Kilsyth. Bethia and Janet are in Kilsyth in 1871, but James is not. I think he must be the one who died in 1866 in Kilsyth. Noting that he had a daughter Helen Mitchell and that he was born in Airdrie, he has to be the son of William Henderson and Helen Mitchell, baptised 10 September 1809 in New Monkland. But I have yet to be convinced that his son William is your William Henderson.

I looked for Agnes Marshall, mother Barbara Smith, and I found Agnes, daughter of John Marshall and Barbara Smith, baptised in Kilysth on 25 December 1824. That taillies exactly with the wife of James Henderson, who was 26 in 1851, apart from her birthplace which was transcribed as West Lothian, Linlithgow. Is that some sort of error, or was she born in Linlithgow but taken back to the family parish for baptism?

I had a look for an illegitimate John Casey in 1870/1874, mother Margaret, but didn't find a likely candidate that way.

Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: tidybooks on Tuesday 13 June 17 23:13 BST (UK)
Hi Forfarian,

Yes, I am having difficulty proving them to be correct family. I think the "Linlithgow" in the passenger list, can be place or county of residence rather than birthplace.

Here is link to Passenger List: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ourstuff/Strathnaver.htm (http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ourstuff/Strathnaver.htm), have a look you may agree.

May try tracing the 11yo Isabella, not sure the relationship to William Henderson yet.

Tom
Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: Rosinish on Tuesday 13 June 17 23:25 BST (UK)
I have been looking into this family trying to prove what I think is fact, i.e. that William 24 and John 20 are brothers.

I agreed with that initially as the 'likely family' but now with more investigation by Forfarian although they seem to be brothers they don't appear to be the correct family  ???

There seems to be a bit of a mystery here with different areas all over the place  ::)

From Peter's original post;

"William Henderson  born 1849 bo'ness linlithgowshire (details from himself)
 margaret casey from  newton  glasgow
 marriage 23 june 1872 at crofthead lanarkshire
 her father was william casey and mother was Mary"

Newton (Cambuslang)? & Crofthead (Carnwath)? appear to both be in South Lanarkshire although I can find no birth for Margaret, no marriage nor a birth for the 'John' aged 1 yr on the passenger list either in Lanarkshire or Linlithgowshire  ???

Peter,

It may be an idea to post some queries for this family on the NZ board as there are good researchers on there to see if anymore info. regarding Scotland & their roots can be found?

Annie

Added, I had already started typing this out prior to your post Tom
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Rosinish on Wednesday 14 June 17 00:09 BST (UK)
Death of Isabella Mitchell Henderson;

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KFX9-2HC

Buried Uphall, West Lothian 1912 (b c1842)

There does seem to be names which match family names & a possible West Lothian connection?

Maybe William was the 'Black Sheep'  ::)

Annie

Added....

HENDERSON ISABELLA 70
1912
672/ 107
Uphall

MITCHELL ISABELLA 70
1912
672/ 107
Title: Re: Re: Hendersons from Bo'ness
Post by: Forfarian on Wednesday 14 June 17 10:13 BST (UK)
Newton (Cambuslang)? & Crofthead (Carnwath)? appear to both be in South Lanarkshire
Don't go down that road unless you want to confuse things further.

As I have already pointed out there are several different places called Crofthead in Lanarkshire. Newton is an even commoner place name than Crofthead, and Cambuslang is not in Glasgow. It is an entirely separate parish and doesn't even have a mutual boundary with Glasgow. 

As far as I can tell, you have three sources of information.

One is the transcription of the passenger list from the 'Strathnaver' which lists William, a miner, of Linlithgow, aged 24; Margaret, 20; John, 1; John, 20, unmarried; Isabella, 11. As other passengers' listings contain the county they came from, I agree that it is reasonable to suppose that in this case Linlithgow means the County of Linlithgow, that is, West Lothian.

Next is Margaret's death certificate which says she died on 14 September 1934, aged 81; that her parents were William Casey, miner, and Mary, surname unknown; she was first married at 18 in Scotland to William Henderson and had 9 surviving children, aged 61, 59, 53, 50, 49, 47, 46 and 40

Also you have a supposed date for the marriage of William and Margaret, on 23 June 1872 at Crofthead, which is not matched by anything in the Scotland's People database or the index to that database at FamilySearch.

- What is the source for this marriage date?

You listed William and Margaret's children as William b 26 February 1877, Margaret b 7 September 1879, Peter b 28 March 1881, Isabella b 25 December 1883 and James b 29 June 1890, which is five. Add on John, who was aged 1 when they arrived in New Zealand, and that makes six. So there must have been at least three more to make up the 9 surviving at her death. Possibly more if one or more children predeceased their mother.

The NZ birth records list 22 children with surname Henderson, father William and mother Margaret. Four can be eliminated because one or other parent had a middle name, leaving 18 whose father was plain William and mother plain Margaret.
John, 1874
Mary, 1875
Margaret Ann, 1875
John Dunnett, 1875
George, 1876
William, 1877
William, 1877
Elizabeth, 1877
Margaret, 1879
Alexander Meanock, 1879
Peter, 1881
Benjamina Jessie, 1882
James, 1883
Isabella, 1884
William Alexander Procter, 1885
Amelia Florence, 1886
Elizabeth Anne, 1888
James, 1890
From the dates there have to be at least two different families, possibly three or more, but I can't sort them out from the NZ birth indexes. Maybe someone with better knowledge of how the NZ registers are organised might be able to tell?

Now for a bit of speculation. It could be, for instance, that Mary b 1875 is also their daughter, named after Margaret's mother. Mary would have been 59 in 1934, which is an exact match for a daughter of Margaret's listed on her death certificate.

If so, then their first four children were John, Mary, William and Margaret. First daughter named for mother's mother and second son named for mother's father? If so, William's parents would have been John and Margaret.

Their daughter Margaret b 1879 would have been 55 when her mother Margaret nee Casey died, so it looks as if Margaret b 1879 may have predeceased her mother.

Could the son aged 49 then be William Alexander Procter, and if so, why the middle names?

And was the 46-year-old daughter Elizabeth Anne?

Also, there is no birth of a Barbara, and it was their sixth son who was named James, so from this evidence also I don't think it's likely that William was the grandson of Barbara Smith.

There are far too many Isabella Hendersons in the Scottish birth indexes in 1862/1863 who could be the 11-year-old one in the ship passenger list.




Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: tidybooks on Wednesday 14 June 17 10:42 BST (UK)
Hi Forfarian and all,

Yes, I couldn't agree more. The passenger list could be a different family, it has similarities to what is assumed accurate. However is not as comprehensive as some passenger lists, like Ellis Island etc. I cannot find a definite William Henderson in 1871 census, 3 years prior to emigrating. I found an Art Student lodging in Coatbridge, not a miner and not in Linlithgowshire.

I have searched Scotsman Newspapers Archives for notices of births or marriages, but drew a blank.

The lack of marriage certificate of William Henderson in Scotland People website and in LDS Family Search site is worrying. I did a search on the 11yo Isabella, from passenger list, using Henderson as surname, but far too many to pin down, as you state.

The death certificate of Margaret O'Connell nee Casey is only definite thing to go on, but we cannot trace any proof of her birth or being in census.

It is never easy, but feel we need some definite facts from New Zealand end.

Tom

Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Forfarian on Wednesday 14 June 17 11:09 BST (UK)
It is never easy, but feel we need some definite facts from New Zealand end.
Yes.

First we need to know where the date and place of marriage information came from.

Also, given that Peter says that William did a runner and might have returned to Scotland, the obvious next step is a trawl for possible deaths of William Henderson b c 1849/1850. (This might also definitely eliminate the schoolmaster's son if he stayed in Scotland and died here.) Unfortunately a search for deaths of William Henderson, born 1850 plus or minus three years, between 1890 and 1960, produces 117 results, which is too much to go through online. It wouldn't take a huge amount of time in the SP centre if someone was planning a visit there.
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Thursday 15 June 17 02:22 BST (UK)
thanks for helping me with this jig saw puzzle to put it all together with my eyes being so bad its hard for me to look at a ipad too long to do much my self it is much apprcretiated what you are doing  from peter
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: bitzar on Thursday 15 June 17 02:34 BST (UK)
Hi team

I've been watching from afar...

Could Isabella be aged 11 months, not 11 years?!

bitzar.
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Rosinish on Thursday 15 June 17 02:50 BST (UK)
Could Isabella be aged 11 months, not 11 years?!

Good observation but...

I would have reservations as there's quite a few passengers who's ages are clearly written as months but errors do occur i.e. not impossible but....

If this was 'their' daughter aged 11 months it's a bit close to a son aged 1 yr but.....

We have no confirmation of the relationships of the Hendersons on that ship yet.

Annie

Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Thursday 15 June 17 02:58 BST (UK)
im 1 year 1 day younger than my sister she born 15 im born 16 following year guess it could be ?..
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Rosinish on Thursday 15 June 17 03:19 BST (UK)
I think what we need is:

The full list of children born to William & Margaret with dates/places (in order) from eldest to youngest.

The source of the marriage date/place?

Some evidence of who the others travelling were whether child/sibling/cousin or other?

Has any info. been found on any of those people?

I'm unsure what would be written on a child's birth cert. in NZ but it would be interesting to have what info. does exist?

Who was the informant on Margaret's death?
Was it a relative or other?
Names can get mixed up too over time as we never talk about our parents/grandparents by name (unless in genealogy) where/when it's necessary like now  :D

Is there anything/anywhere in NZ which would require their places of birth which can be accessed?

Did they sign forms for permanent residency which would show their places of birth?

We need more info. from the NZ end in order to progress.


Annie


I had an alert when I was posting so to answer the alert...

Pete,

I'm aware it's not impossible as I've written on my post but others were recorded in months & I have also said errors occur.
I knew 2 siblings who were born in the same year & they weren't twins  ;D

We need you to confirm those relationships to progress....whether they were siblings or otherwise related...is this possible please?
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Thursday 15 June 17 03:43 BST (UK)
i just sent tom an email it is a death notice from 1934 of her death and her doughter  brooking and her doughter a thompson married surnames
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Thursday 15 June 17 03:54 BST (UK)
maragaret remarried in 1916 to michael o'connell i have to pay 30$ to get certificate
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Rosinish on Thursday 15 June 17 04:02 BST (UK)
Do you have access to anywhere to view documents & with your sight not being too great is there no-one such as family members or friends who would be willing to help you to find the info. needed?

A request on the NZ board may achieve something?

I have never dealt with NZ records apart from online about 10 years ago for a friend looking through Indexed BMDs but the surname was very unusual i.e. easy to find.

Annie
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Rosinish on Thursday 15 June 17 04:11 BST (UK)
Peter,

Can you please tell us exactly what is written on the baptism/birth cert of...

"William Henderson, b 26 Feb 1877 Warmongers. SI. (GGF)"

Annie
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Thursday 15 June 17 04:12 BST (UK)
knowing weither he was dead when she remarried or divorced is the big question i have to write to nz archives and ask about divorce ect hope ther can help some way
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Thursday 15 June 17 04:15 BST (UK)
i havent got a baptism paper just a birth certificate just says mother fathers name from linlithgowshire  and he my gerand dad born in waimangora 26 feb 1877
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Rosinish on Thursday 15 June 17 04:39 BST (UK)
Is there a column where it asks for date & place of marriage?

I know Scottish certs. have that but I have never seen a NZ B/M/D.

Annie
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Thursday 15 June 17 04:45 BST (UK)
its called archives nz
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Rosinish on Thursday 15 June 17 05:13 BST (UK)
Can you tell us what the heading for each column on the birth cert. says please e.g.

Name   Place of Birth   Father's Name   Mother's Name    etc?

As it is on the cert.

Annie
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: whiteout7 on Thursday 15 June 17 06:56 BST (UK)
Strathnaver 1874 London
 to NZ

Henderson   William   24   Linlithgow   Miner
Margaret   20      
John   1      
John   20   Trans to s/m   
Isabella   11

Could Isabella Henderson have been William Henderson's little sister?
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: whiteout7 on Thursday 15 June 17 07:14 BST (UK)
I am wondering if William Henderson born 1849 has been found in the  1871 census for Crofthead, Whitburn in West Lothian?

Crofthead Iron-Stone Pits - parish of Whitburn, Linlithgowshire?

Apparently there were lots of children working in this mine so a hard life
http://www.scottishmining.co.uk/221.html

This could be William's brother John in the mines
SP HENDERSON JOHN 1871 M 17 673/ 1/ 1 Whitburn West Lothian
(born in 1854 on the Strathnaven in 1874 and born in 1854 in the mines?)

Then there is this:
SP CASEY MARGARET 1871 F 17 649/ 18/ 1 Lesmahagow Lanark
(Which would be about correct for Margaret Hendersons age of 20 on the Strathnaven in 1874.)

I think this is William Henderson
(SP HENDERSON JOHN 1871 M 20 663/ 5/ 2 Bo'Ness West Lothian
Which would be about correct for William Henderson on the Strathnaven in 1874)

I would suggest buying this record to see if he was living with his parents
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Thursday 15 June 17 07:46 BST (UK)
this is so exciting getting all this imformation if all works out i will bring my sons to scotland i might just have enough left in me i want to show them before i join my ancestors  thanks all of you are doing  a great job you dont know how much it means to me and my sons i named my eldest son   yes William he will join the raaf next year
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: whiteout7 on Thursday 15 June 17 09:30 BST (UK)
You know there are a few BUCHANAN's living in Leshmagow, Lanarkshire in 1971

Married Crofthead, Whitburn, West Lothian, Scotland?
I found this marriage:
SP HENDERSON WILLIAM married BUCHANAN MARGARET 1872 673/ 19 19 Whitburn

Could Margaret Casey have become a stepdaughter before civil registration? Then married under this name.
Might be a far fetched thought but checking out Margaret Casey in Leshmagow could be interesting to see if she is living with BUCHANAN's

The marriage as Margaret Casey to William Henderson certainly seems elusive in SP.
What does everyone else think?
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Thursday 15 June 17 10:01 BST (UK)
on margarets death certificate it says her parents william casey amd mary casey  im confused who buchanans areeee please explane ?
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Forfarian on Thursday 15 June 17 10:22 BST (UK)
Good finds, whiteout7.

There are nine Croftheads  in Lanarkshire, one in each of the following parishes
Avondale
Bothwell
Cadder
Carnwath
Crawfordjohn
Douglas
East Kilbride
Lanark
Stonehouse

Curiosity (and a few free credits) got the better of me.

Margaret Casey, 17, born Lanarkshire, Lanark, was a farm servant at Byre Town, Lesmahagow, in the 1871 census.

There is no 7-year-old Margaret Casey in the index to the 1861 census. There is a 7-year-old Margaret Cassey in Dalziel. She is the second surviving child of Peter Ca(s)sey (both spellings are used) and Mary Arbuckle, but her birthplace is given as Cambuslang not Lanark.

The children are Mary, born 1851/2 in Old Monkland
Margaret, born 1853/4 in Cambuslang
John, born 21 August 1858 in Old Monkland, presumably died young as he is not in the 1861 census
Agnes, born 20 May 1858 in Dalziel, presumably died young as she is not in the 1861 census
Andrew, born 24 June 1860 in Dalziel
Elizabeth, born 3 September 1862 in Cadder
Janet, born 20 October 1864 in Cambusnethan
Peter, born 2 March 1866, Cambusnethan
John, born 13 September 1868, Cambusnethan
Betsy, born 9 December 1870, Cambusnethan

Don't know yet whether any of this is useful information.
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Thursday 15 June 17 10:43 BST (UK)
mary was the name of her mother but it said william casey  father.?..a miner thats on her death certificate in 1934
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: tidybooks on Thursday 15 June 17 10:55 BST (UK)
Hi Forfarian,

I downloaded the William Henderson and Margaret Buchanan marriage certificate, it was a RC in Whitburn 17th June 1872. William was an Ironstone Miner son of a William Henderson, miner and Jean McGill. Margaret was daughter of Peter Buchanan and Mary ARBUCKLE. Their addresses were in West Calder.


 Could this be the same Mary Arbuckle who married Peter Cas(s)ey?

Tom Buchanan
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: whiteout7 on Thursday 15 June 17 11:07 BST (UK)
The Margaret Casey we seek was from Newton Glasgow?
"Newton is a mainly residential district in the Scottish town of Cambuslang in South Lanarkshire"
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: tidybooks on Thursday 15 June 17 11:12 BST (UK)
Hi Whiteout,

Posted in error, sorry.


Tom Buchanan
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: whiteout7 on Thursday 15 June 17 11:13 BST (UK)
on margarets death certificate it says her parents william casey amd mary casey  im confused who buchanans areeee please explane ?

Death certificates are only filled in with what the informant thinks they know, not fact.
If Margarets father died when she was young, she might not have told her children the correct name or her children got it wrong at her death.

My own Great Grandfather who died in NZ had a death cert saying he was born in Edinburgh, guess what he was born in Dysart, Fife.  This was uncovered by census information.
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: whiteout7 on Thursday 15 June 17 11:30 BST (UK)
Forfarian and Tidybooks if the marriage was Roman Catholic, then is that why they don't appear in the IGI at Familysearch?

I think we are on to something.
However I think I will go sleep
Goodnight Kiwican
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Thursday 15 June 17 11:38 BST (UK)
so you saying my ggmother was casey but lived with buchana
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: tidybooks on Thursday 15 June 17 12:04 BST (UK)
Hi Peter,

At this stage, we are not saying that Casey stayed with Buchanan's, but just trying to get things to work out to suit what little we know already. Margaret may have been an illegitimate Casey but then her mother married a Buchanan, and she may have used her step dad's surname or registrar used that surname for her name.

This is only a theorem and we do not have proof yet. I have been at the search for 4 days now, and I do not think I am any further forward. I have had theories but no proof. The passenger list does not give enough actual information, only gives "Linlithgow" as the county of Linlithgowshire. The family looks OK, but we cannot get any census information to back it up.

The lack of marriage certificate for William Henderson and Margaret Casey is annoying, I have looked at Catholic records as well as Church of Scotland, and nothing turned up. The death certificate gives ages of children but no names, and we do not know who the 9 children are.

So no real progress made yet. Something may turn up, got to keep positive.


Tom Buchanan

Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Thursday 15 June 17 12:29 BST (UK)
thanks tom she had william 1877 margaret 7 september 1879  isabella 25 december 1883 peter 28 march 1881 james 29 june 1890 thats all i know
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Forfarian on Thursday 15 June 17 13:59 BST (UK)
Forfarian and Tidybooks if the marriage was Roman Catholic, then is that why they don't appear in the IGI at Familysearch?
It should not be, because Roman Catholic marriages were not exempt from being registered, and this one obviously was registered because it is on Scotland's People.

My understanding is that the IGI included all registered marriages from 1855 to 1874, so I am also surprised that this marriage is not in the IGI.

I cannot find a marriage of Mary Arbuckle to a Buchanan before 1874. But Peter Cassey, coal miner, married to Mary Arbuckle, died in 1873, and his parents were John Cassey and ..... Margaret Buchanan.

On the other hand, if this is the Margaret Casey we are looking for, why would she give her name as Buchanan, when her father was still living?  Unless ..... she was apparently the second daughter. Suppose she was named after her father's mother in accordance with the naming tradition. Then she would have been Margaret Buchanan Cas(s)ey. When they came to register the marriage, the registrar got muddled up and thought she had said her surname was Buchanan.
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Thursday 15 June 17 14:26 BST (UK)
ok things not allways as they seem margaret  casey  buchanan   Henderson is that it so on marriage certificate they put   margaret Buchanan
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Thursday 15 June 17 14:29 BST (UK)
i have one photo of her with my father  taken in 1928 my dad was 2 at the time william viviam motzart Henderson born auckland 28 december 1926
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: anne_p on Thursday 15 June 17 16:09 BST (UK)
Re 1872 marriage in Whitburn
I wondered if Margaret Buchanan dau of Peter Buchanan and and Mary Arbuckle may have been a registrars error. ( i.e. Buchanan rather than Casey)

It appears not.
William Henderson and Margaret Buchanan had a son named John born in Cambusnethan on 14 Mar 1873.
However, Cambusnethan was exactly where Peter Casey and wife Mary Arbuckle lived at 1871 and it's also where this Peter died in 1873.

There are no other births showing for this couple and the child does match with the 1yr old who travelled aboard the Strathnaver with his parents in 1874.

Therefore: Margaret b Cambuslang circa 1854 shows on the 1861 census as Margaret Casey but  seems to have married as Margaret Buchanan.

I also agree with a previous comment.
Think it was Forfarian?
As the 2nd daughter, her birth name may well have been Margaret Buchanan Casey.

Did anyone find this which provides further evidence that there was no father, step or otherwise named Buchanan
1851: Edinburgh Road, Baillieston

John Casey   72 B Ireland
Peter Casey   21Son B Old Monkland
Mary Anne Casey   18 Daughter in Law. Born CAMBUSLANG

This must be Mary Arbuckle and more or less proves that all of her children were born within this relationship/marriage

EDIT:
Would hazzard a guess that Mary Ann Arbuckle was the daughter of Andrew Arbuckle and Mary Shaw.
1841: Kirkhill, Cambuslang
   
Name   Age
Andrew Arbuckle   40
Mary Arbuckle   35
George Arbuckle   15
Charles Arbuckle   15
Andrew Arbuckle   12
***Mary Arbuckle Jr   8
Agnes Arbuckle   5
Janet Arbuckle   1
Mary Arbuckle   7

Andrew and some of his children are in Shettleston at 1851 but no wife is in household.
Mary Shaw wife of Andrew Arbuckle is entered onto the Cambuslang Mortcloth date 9 Feb 1849.
She died from Cholera

Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Forfarian on Thursday 15 June 17 17:28 BST (UK)
Marriage of Peter Casie to Mary Ann Buckle, old Monkland, 31 December 1850.
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: anne_p on Thursday 15 June 17 18:06 BST (UK)
LOL
Talk about thinking outside of the box.

1841: Dundyvan Row, Old Monkland   

John Cassie   55
Margret Cassie   45
Elisabeth Cassie   20
John Cassie   15
Mary Cassie   15
***Peter Cassie   10
Janet Cassie   9
Margret Cassie   6
John Mcneil   26
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: anne_p on Thursday 15 June 17 18:39 BST (UK)
Henderson:
In wonder of William's mother was called "Jean" McGill.
Was her name Agnes McGill ?

1841:Hope Park, Glasgow Martyrs

**Murdoch Mcgill   60 B Ireland
Agnes Mcgill   6
Murdock Mcgill   16
**Agnes Mcgill   18 B Ireland
Cecilia Mcgill   28
Richard Mcgill   22
****William Henderson   27 B Ireland??
John Duffy   30
Hugh Dougherty   27
William Curran   30
                                            _____________________________________

1851: Middle Row, Newton, BoNess
Name showing as Ann

William Henderson   34 Ironstone Miner B Crawfordjohn
**Ann Henderson   28 wife b Ireland
William Henderson   4
Jas Henderson   2
Agness Henderson   4 Mo
*** Mirtach Mc Gill   26 Brother in Law. B Maybole, Ayrshire
John Mckinnon   26
Jane Mckinnon   19
Jas Mckinnon   6 Mo

1861: Fauldhouse Rows, Whitburn
Name showing as Agnes
William Henderson   43 Ironstone Miner B Crawfordjohn
Agnes Henderson   38 Wife. B Ireland
William Henderson   13
Agnes Henderson   9
John Henderson   8
***Mindy Mcgill   84 Father in law. B Ireland ( mistrancription of Murdoch?)

 
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: whiteout7 on Thursday 15 June 17 21:22 BST (UK)
I put up the Stepfather theory because I could not understand why we couldn't find the marriage in SP.

The second daughter theory from Forfarian sounds much better.

The William Henderson and Margaret Buchanan marriage is the only one in the timeframe in West Lothian that could fit that I could find for any William Henderson. (I wonder if they both were literate, could they write or did they sign x on this marriage)

The death certificate of Margaret Casey in NZ could easily had William entered as the father instead of Peter because children tend to mudddle things up on death certificates.




Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Thursday 15 June 17 21:40 BST (UK)
anything  goes i guess hope it is the case so i can really make a tree soon what are the odds its them
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: whiteout7 on Thursday 15 June 17 21:54 BST (UK)
I think the odds are very good for the William Henderson and Margaret Buchannan marriage.
Following William Henderson's McGill line looks hard!
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Thursday 15 June 17 22:00 BST (UK)
ok ill waite with bated breath
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: anne_p on Thursday 15 June 17 22:28 BST (UK)
There is another theory from my own family research that I can add to this family.

The birth record of John Henderson b 1873 in Cambusnethan to William Henderson and Margaret Buchanan may add some clarity.
Address at time of birth?

It is fairly clear that Peter Casey and (Son In Law?) William Henderson were both miners.
Their addresses on all census returns are in mining areas.
Death of Margaret Casey/ Henderson states she was born in Newton.
Census data shows Cambuslang.
In this time period, Newton, Cambuslang was home to many coal miners



I have a relative who was an undergound Colliery Manager at Dundyvan Colliery, Coatbridge ( Old Monkland) up until 1873.
He emigrated to NZ in 1874 to take up the post of Colliery Manager at Waimangaroa.
I have always believed that his passage and job offer came through the Presbyterian Church.
I have never located his arrival in NZ.

It is highly likely that William Henderson did not travel to NZ on spec but, already had a job offer at Waimangaroa in the Buller District.
My relative or the church  may have recruited other miners from Dundyvan and local collieries to work at Waimangaroa.
If so, it would explain the Hendersons emigration of 1874.

My family story is complex but, my relative's entire family were booked on a passage to NZ in 1875.
This sailing was cancelled and no one from his wider family made this trip until 1881.

Family history states that all sailings were cancelled due to infection control but, I now wonder if he was also aboard the Strathnaver??
It would make sense.

If anyone has access to this record could you please have a look?
Relative's name was Archibald Ferguson aged about 32yrs old and I am certain that he travelled with his brother James, aged about 19yrs.
( I don't need any info on the Fergusons after their 1874 arrival only interested in whether they were on this ship or not)
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Thursday 15 June 17 22:47 BST (UK)
ill have a look i got the passanger list for the 1 june 1874
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Thursday 15 June 17 22:49 BST (UK)
the john henderson on 1871 census was 20 ref 663/5/2 it said he was 20 in 1874 on the strathnaver
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: tidybooks on Thursday 15 June 17 22:51 BST (UK)
Hi anne_p,

I had a look for your relative on Strathnaver Passenger list, and he is not there.

Here is link,  http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ourstuff/Strathnaver.htm

Tom Buchanan
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: anne_p on Thursday 15 June 17 23:08 BST (UK)
Thank you for the link to The Strathnaver
Sadly my relative  and his brother are not aboard.
He was in Scotland at 1873 but is known to be in Waimangaroa, Buller,  NZ at 1875
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Rosinish on Thursday 15 June 17 23:16 BST (UK)
Wow, a lot of lateral thinking & investigations have been going on since my last visit, well done all......very promising!

I got the BC for John will transcribe & post incase anyone else is thinking of downloading it.

Annie
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: tidybooks on Thursday 15 June 17 23:19 BST (UK)

The William Henderson and Margaret Buchanan marriage is the only one in the timeframe in West Lothian that could fit that I could find for any William Henderson. (I wonder if they both were literate, could they write or did they sign x on this marriage)

There were no notes saying they made their mark x so both shown as literate. Address for Bride and Groom was the same, Muldron, West Calder. His occupation was given as Ironstone Miner, and she was a Domestic servant. 

From the West Calder history,

"On the estate of Muldron, at the western extremity of the parish, the Shotts Iron Company have been working ironstone for three years; and it has been wrought for a number of years on the estate of Handaxwood by the Wilsontown Company."

Tom Buchanan
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Rosinish on Thursday 15 June 17 23:22 BST (UK)
John Henderson
b 14 Mar 1873, 29 Bells Rows, Wishaw (Parish Cambusnethan, County Lanark)
Father William Henderson (Coalminer)
Mother Margaret Henderson (M.S. Buchanan)
Married 3 Jun 1872, at Crofthead, Whitburn
Signed by William Henderson (Father)

Annie
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: anne_p on Thursday 15 June 17 23:27 BST (UK)
That was very kind of you Rosinish.

It's adding up now......
Peter Casey and Mary Arbuckle lived at Bells Row on the 1871 census.
John Henderson was born at Bells Row in 1873

Gosh... I cant find it again without wading over the  last 13 pages but one of our RC members ( I think Forfarian) obtained the 1873  death record for Peter Casey.
Where did he die?
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Thursday 15 June 17 23:33 BST (UK)
im getting dizzy reading so much but so many scenarios going on
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: anne_p on Thursday 15 June 17 23:54 BST (UK)
It was tidybrooks who obtained the 1872 marriage for William Henderson and Margaret Buchanan

Were Williams parents still living?
   
1871:Muldron Row, West Calder

Ann Henderson   52 b Maybole ( name back to Ann and POB altered from Ireland)
William Henderson   23 Son, Ironstone Miner B Bo Ness
Isabella Henderson   8 Daughter

Death of mother:
HENDERSON
ANN
58
1872
701/ 63**
WEST CALDER

MCGILL
ANN
58
1872
701/ 63**
WEST CALDER

Now look at that 1874 emigration... Isabella Henderson who is travelling with the family is William's sister!
Born 23 May 1862, Whitburn, West Lothian
Parents: William Henderson and Ann McGill
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Thursday 15 June 17 23:58 BST (UK)
that sounds to the point you guys are unreal at this but with my one eye thats my excuse not being up to it the good eye over worked strain but thaks so far
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: tidybooks on Friday 16 June 17 00:03 BST (UK)
Hi Annie,

That is superb, that does it for me, Isabella, I tried place her last night, but was looking in the wrong geographical area.

I notice that I stated it was "Jean" but I have rechecked and it is "Ann", just a bit faded.

William should have been a bit younger,but 2 years not too much.

Well done, think that is sorted now. Just need to take time and sort it all out for Peter.

Tom
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: anne_p on Friday 16 June 17 00:08 BST (UK)
I think that the name Margaret Buchanan was an error on the 1872 marriage cert.
Should have read: Margaret Buchanan Casey

However, her son John born 1873 was registered by his father.
I think perhaps, William Henderson took his marriage lines when registering this birth, mother's name was copied, resulting in Buchanan

Also, I suspect that this is the death of William Henderson, husband of Ann McGill and father of William who married Margaret Buchanan or Casey

HENDERSON
WILLIAM
46
1867
673/ 42
Whitburn
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: tidybooks on Friday 16 June 17 00:33 BST (UK)
William Henderson  born 1849 bo'ness linlithgowshire   married  margaret casey from  newton  glasgow  date of marriage 23 june 1872 at crofthead lanarkshire scotland her father was william casey and mother was Mary they went to new zealand in 1874 and lived in westport waimangarua  there they had children william peter margaret james  and isabella i am trying to trace my gg grand fathers family  he lived in linlithgowshire  . how can i find his marriage certificate i been lookin g on many sights but no luck i got the place and date but no luck of recording  can someone please advise me what to do

Kiwican, (Peter),

I think that we have found your great grandfathers marriage certificate, it was in a RC church in Whitburn, West Lothian (Linlithgowshire), bride and groom address showed as Muldron, West Calder. It was 17th June 1872, he was 24 and she was 19. Problem was her name was down as Margaret Buchanan instead of Margaret Buchanan Casey. Another error was father had been listed as Peter Buchanan instead of Peter Casey his wife was Mary Arbuckle. ( Not 100% on that, there maybe another reason for this error, but not found it yet.)

anne_p found that Isabella who was William Henderson, your GGF's sister, that did it for me.

I will send a copy od the MC to you, it is pretty faded, hope you can make it out.

Tom.
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: anne_p on Friday 16 June 17 00:46 BST (UK)
William Henderson also had a sister named Agnes Henderson who married Henry Doudie/Dowdie in Whitburn 1869.
They too are living at Muldron Row, Whitburn at 1871   

Henry Dowdie   23
Agnes Dowdie   5 Mo
**Agnes Dowdie   20 Wife B Bo'Ness
Owene Braddly   24
Michael Braddly   13

In West Calder at 1881 and 1891.
Henry was killed in mining accident 1895


Henry Dowdie
Birth Year:   abt 1848
Event Type:   Death
Event Year:   1895
Death Age:   47
Death Date:   5 Sep 1895
Death Place:   Linlithgow
Occupation:   Contractor
Colliery:   Bridgeness
Owner:   Bridgeness Coal Co
Notes:   Fall of stone.
 
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Rosinish on Friday 16 June 17 01:25 BST (UK)
I think that the name Margaret Buchanan was an error on the 1872 marriage cert.
Should have read: Margaret Buchanan Casey

I am not convinced about this & think there's more to it  ???

I believe she's the correct person but the surname is an enigma.

An error on the marriage we could agree with but...

She's clearly Margaret Buchanan again on John's birth  ???

Both were literate i.e. I think a possible fall out with family & dropped the Casey?

I haven't looked for a baptism for her, I wonder if she did have a middle name?


Anne_p......Both sets of parents were alive when William & Margaret married & both were Miners.


Annie

Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: anne_p on Friday 16 June 17 09:48 BST (UK)
I tend to agree with you Rosinish
The only plausible explanation that I could come up with relating to the birth of John Henderson in 1873 was that his father took his marriage lines  to his son's birth registration and mother's name of Buchanan was copied over.

Forgot to add that John Henderson age 20 who was travelling aboard the Strathnaver with William, Margaret, 1yr old John and 11 yr old Isabella, will also be William and Isabella's brother.

John appears on the 1861 census with his parents but, is not on the 1871 return.
18yr old John appears to be lodging in Lesmahagow, Lanarkshire with a family named Connolly.
He was a pit-head miner.
Place of birth: Whitburn
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Forfarian on Friday 16 June 17 09:59 BST (UK)
Gosh... I cant find it again without wading over the  last 13 pages but one of our RC members ( I think Forfarian) obtained the 1873  death record for Peter Casey.
Where did he die?
76 Berryhill Rows, Wishaw, parish of Cambusnethan.

I couldn't find a death of Mary Arbuckle or Cas(s)ey. Could she perhaps have gone to NZ later to join Margaret and family?

Has anyone found marriages/deaths in NZ for John and Isabella?
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: anne_p on Friday 16 June 17 10:25 BST (UK)
Haven't looked yet for Isabella or John Henderson in NZ.

I could find no trace of Mary Arbuckle/Casey after the 1881 census but, I think that her son, Peter Casey may well be the man who married Margaret Irwin in NSW in 1893 and died in 1934.

Children were named:  Peter b 1894,  John Clyde b 1902,  Queenie b 1905 and  Andrew Alfred b 1908
Births Registered Stockton and Helensburgh NSW

1934 death index shows that this man's parents were called Peter and Mary.

Funeral announcement appears in Newcastle Morning Herald and Miners Advocate dated Tues 24 Jul 1934

Edit:
There were more children... just haven't located those births
This couple also had a son named William Casey who drowned in 1917 aged 16yrs
Son Andrew married in 1932 and names of thosein attendance suggest that he had other siblings Ie May and Charles.

There are plenty of articles on Trove re this family but, of course, only relevant  if he was Margaret's brother.

OH My Word... I may have found it!
On the 1881 census for widow Mary Arbuckle Casey, her  20yr old son Andrew is entered as "Seaman"

I've just found his death announcement... brother of Peter Casey of Coledale and of Mrs Samuel Hollows of Helensburgh NSW
This bit didn't take long...
Samuel Henry Hollows married Elizabeth Casey 1888 in NEW ZEALAND

Andrew died in 1910, and was the "Commodore of The Borneo's Shipping Co Fleet" and spent years in the trade in Hong Kong, Singapore and Java


1871:
Bells Row, Cambusnethan
   
Name   Age
Peter Casey   41
Mary Casey   38
Andrew Casey   11
Peter Casey   5
John Casey   3
Elizabeth Casey   1 (Birth name was Betsy b 9 Dec 1870 and was aged 3 months)


1881: Old Camp, Dalziel, Lanarkshire
   
Mrs. Arbuckle Casey   46
**Andrew Casey   20
**Peter Casey   15
John Casey   12
**Betsy Casey   10
William Clarkson   10 Grandson: (b 4 Nov 1870 in Cambusnethan. Son of William Clarkson and Mary Cassey)
Sarah Brown   3 grand daughter b England

* Peter and Mary also had a daughter named Elizabeth who was born in Cadder 1862.
She does not appear on any census and I can find no death
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Friday 16 June 17 11:01 BST (UK)
so wonderfull to know all this imformation
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: anne_p on Friday 16 June 17 11:35 BST (UK)
Children of Samuel Henry Hollows and Elizabeth Casey
Born in NZ between 1889 to 1902

Mary b 1889
Catherine b 1891
Violet b 1897
Jessie Anderson b 1900
Elizabeth Hazel b 1902

Family moved to Australia between 1902 & 1904

Born in Helensburgh, NSW from 1904 to 1910
Samuel H  b 1904
Ivy A  b 1907
Lliy E  b 1907
William C  b 1910 further info confirms name was: William Clarkson Hollows


Further info on these children is easily located
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Friday 16 June 17 12:23 BST (UK)
we just dont know what really happend to william henderson married to margaret casey do we 
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: anne_p on Friday 16 June 17 12:55 BST (UK)
We haven't yet found William but, after his arrival in 1874, the births of at least 4 of his children were registered  in the Buller District between 1877 and 1890 : William, Isabella, Peter and James

As the youngest known child, James was registered here in 1890,  it must place William Henderson in this area until at least 1889.
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Friday 16 June 17 13:02 BST (UK)
yes it is strange  gone awol   some place my father never met him just margaret  such a shame
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: anne_p on Friday 16 June 17 13:21 BST (UK)
List of possible children posted by Forfarian on 13 Jun which I have updated in red to show children with parents William and Margaret who were registered in the correct area

John, 1874
Mary, 1875
Margaret Ann, 1875
John Dunnett, 1875
George, 1876
William, 1877  *** Registered in Buller District
William, 1877
Elizabeth, 1877
Margaret, 1879
Alexander Meanock, 1879
Peter, 1881 *** Registered in Buller District
Benjamina Jessie, 1882
James, 1883
Isabella, 1884 *** Registered in Buller District
William Alexander Procter, 1885
Amelia Florence, 1886
Elizabeth Anne, 1888 ** Registered in Buller District
James, 1890              ** Registered in Buller District

And one that got away!
Andrew Casey Henderson 1886 Registered Buller District

This 1886 birth is not on the NZ BDM site but, is found on Ancestry ?
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Rosinish on Friday 16 June 17 15:47 BST (UK)
Good work ann_p & a 'bonus' find!

No luck with a baptism for Margaret but trying to figure out a Casey/Buchanan theory...

TIMELINE

Marriage
1850 (31 Dec) Peter Casie to Mary Ann Buckle, Old Monkland

Birth (Can’t locate this)
1853/54 Margaret (Buchanan) Casey? (from marriage)
Parents Peter Buchanan & Mary Arbuckle

Marriage
1872 (17 Jun) Margaret Buchanan to William Henderson
Parents Peter Buchanan & Mary Arbuckle

Death
1873 Peter Cassey
Parents John Cassey & Margaret Buchanan

Was Peter the illegitimate son of Margaret Buchanan i.e. Peter Buchanan who may have then gone under Casie/Casey when his mother married hence the difference in Margaret’s surname?

Birth
1874 (14 Mar) John Henderson
Parents William Henderson & Margaret Buchanan


Annie
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Saturday 17 June 17 12:54 BST (UK)
just wondering the refrence numbers for william and helen henderson 49212     49213  and james 49209 what are they can i go one back on james hendersons parents
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Forfarian on Saturday 17 June 17 17:29 BST (UK)
No idea. If you found them in some online family tree, they are probably arbitrary numbers assigned by that program to individuals in the tree, and they are meaningless to anyone else.
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Forfarian on Saturday 17 June 17 18:31 BST (UK)
can i go one back on james hendersons parents
You've lost me. Who is James Henderson? Is he the schoolmaster married to Agnes Marshall? If so, he is a red herring. Your William Henderson's father was another William.
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Saturday 17 June 17 21:25 BST (UK)
sorry i trying get it right so the williiam who married margaret buckanan  in 1872 was my gg father was his father named william   and was he married to ann mc gill aged 58 who died in 1872  701/53  from west calder i  wonder  what  was his birth date and where was he born    my g g g grand father  so william henderson  and ann Mc gill my g g g grand parents
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Forfarian on Saturday 17 June 17 22:28 BST (UK)
Yes, that seems to be the consensus.
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Saturday 17 June 17 22:34 BST (UK)
so can we find his parent and where they lived im asking too much am i????? i just want to get it right before i decide to go there with my son  if im well enough  i hope so  and when he ask me a question ill give him correct answer
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Rosinish on Saturday 17 June 17 22:58 BST (UK)
Hi Peter,

I will do you a Family Tree on my FTM programme with the evidence gathered so far to help you.

I didn't want to confuse things anymore by doing a TIMELINE for the Hendersons while trying to figure out the Casey/Buchanan scenario.

I will need a wee bit of time to do it in between my everyday commitments.

I will put it in a format with certs. attached on the document which will read like a book, showing the certs. in order of events rather than just names & dates & hopefully it will be clearer for you to understand as it can be printed off as pages of a book.
I will also include a diagram which will show who's married to who & their children etc. which is very straight forward to understand.

Is there any possibility your son could help locate the family in NZ with death dates/places & burials as well as any other useful info?

Annie

Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Rosinish on Saturday 17 June 17 23:12 BST (UK)
I don't have time just now to scroll through the pages but can I ask please if everyone who has downloaded any certs. could I please have copies to add for Peter to the 'Booklet' I'm doing?

Can you please PM me & I will give you my email address.

Thanks team,

Annie
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Saturday 17 June 17 23:19 BST (UK)
thank you so much for doing this it is so good to know people are willing to help ill try and figure out nz side i hope ?? it would be great to do it propley with all this imformation you have  thanks again
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Rosinish on Saturday 17 June 17 23:26 BST (UK)
Hi Peter,

Is it possible you could get in touch with NZ Records Office please to confirm the birth below.

"Andrew Casey Henderson 1886 Registered Buller District

This 1886 birth is not on the NZ BDM site but, is found on Ancestry ?"

As there's no source recorded i.e. no ref. no. you will need to give the names of parents William Henderson and Margaret (Casey)? or was she Buchanan? Both names given would be best.

As the child's surname was Henderson it should be easy to locate if indeed it does exist.

Annie
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Saturday 17 June 17 23:30 BST (UK)
ill try my best annie  im not as good as you doing this so please forgive me for being a bit   slowww on stuff like this younguys are marvels at it
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Sunday 18 June 17 00:10 BST (UK)
my grand fathers brothers and sisters that i know of are first  grand dad william henderson born 26 february 1877  then margaret henderson born 7 sepetmber 1879 in westport  then peter henderson born waimangora on 28 march 1881  then isabella born waimangora on 25 december 1883 then james born waimangora on29 june 1890  not sure how to get andrews detail from 1886 cant find ,,,, so total of children that we know well i know are   john born 1873 in scotland    and the rest of the children in nz  im sorry i dont know all that wore written on margarets death certificate in 1934 im at a loss
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Sunday 18 June 17 00:14 BST (UK)
the nz birth site is telling me isabella born in 1884  not  1883
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Sunday 18 June 17 00:17 BST (UK)
its telling me  isabella  henderson married a richard thomas brooking in 1909
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Sunday 18 June 17 00:18 BST (UK)
in nz of cause
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Rosinish on Sunday 18 June 17 00:48 BST (UK)
the nz birth site is telling me isabella born in 1884  not  1883

As she was born at the end of the year 1883 the year on the index is pertaining to when registered which was early the following year 1884.

Annie
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: anne_p on Sunday 18 June 17 11:24 BST (UK)
The NZ BDM historical site can be manipulated to find the exact date.

Isbella's birth date matches to  : 25 Dec 1883 and  was therefore registered at the beginning of 1884
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Sunday 18 June 17 12:39 BST (UK)
i was just looking at margaret jnr born at wallabi street westport on the 07 of september 1879 well in 1906 there was a margaret henderson who married  an edward  Buchanan  the same name that mary margarets mother was using and mixing with william casey  is that  close happaning luck or what
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Sunday 18 June 17 12:45 BST (UK)
in 1909 isabella married a richard thomas brooking   same name she used in the news paper when margaret  henderson O connell died in 1934 it said mrs Brooking loving daughter or  margaret
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Forfarian on Wednesday 21 June 17 23:14 BST (UK)
I had an unexpected opportunity to visit the Scotland's People Centre today. I searched for all the deaths of William Hendersons born 1849 plus or minus three years and died in 1894 or later, and checked all except the death of servicemen in the first world war, because (a) William would have been too old to serve and (b) the service deaths don't include the mother's name. I did not find any with mother McGill, so it looks as if William did not die in Scotland, or if he did his age at death was out by more than 3 years.
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Rosinish on Wednesday 21 June 17 23:23 BST (UK)
That was really good of you Forfarian!

I think this may now eliminate the thought that he may have returned to Scotland?

Peter,

Do you know if your g g/father William disappeared prior to your g/father William returning home or did he disappear after your g/father returned home?

I think there's the possibility of him dying where he was working in OZ with possibly no ID on him?

It does seem unlikely although not impossible that he abandoned his family having had so many children?

Annie
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Forfarian on Thursday 22 June 17 00:03 BST (UK)
I looked at the death of Ann McGill or Henderson. She is described as the widow of William Henderson, miner, and daughter of Morton McGill and Ann, maiden surname not listed, or it might be McGill again.

So William was alive in 1861, but dead by 1872. Sure enough, he died in Whitburn in 1867, parents Peter Henderson and Agnes Thomson.

From the 1851, 1861 and 1871 censuses noted upthread William and Ann/Agnes McGill had
William, born 1846/7
James, born 1848/9
Agnes, born 1851/2
John, born 1852/3
Isabella, born 1862/3

From the IGI, they had
Marion, born 4 December 1857
Marion, born 8 December 1859
Isabella, born 23 May 1862
Margaret, born 10 May 1865

Of those, only Isabella was with her parents in 1871.

Marion Henderson, aged 0, died in Whitburn in 1858
Marion Henderson, age not listed, died in Whitburn in 1860
Margaret Henderson, aged 2, died in Whitburn in 1866
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: anne_p on Thursday 22 June 17 00:13 BST (UK)
I too think OZ is the likely place for William's death.

I have trawled through hundreds of Hendersons in NZ and can find no trace of this family prior to 1909 the marriage of their daughter, Isabella and Margaret's own 2nd marriage to Michael O'Connor in 1916.

Where were they between 1890 and 1909?
Could the entire family be in OZ?

The other thing to note is that Margaret died at her daughter's home.

I can locate her married daughter between 1909 and her mothers death at various addresses in Grey Lynn including,  ( 1928 onwards) the  same address a where her mother died.

By scrolling forward through the same ERs, there are no obvious Hedersons or O'Connells at the same address nor even in this entire area of Grey Lynn, Auckland

One family only with a mother named Margaret lived at 28 Pollen Street, Grey Lynn

The births of  the unmarried daughters living with this woman can easily be located, proving that she was a different Margaret Henderson.

Has Kiwican obtained Margaret's 2nd marriage cert to see where she was living?
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Rosinish on Thursday 22 June 17 01:07 BST (UK)
Doing well Forfarian with another generation both sides & I have to say I like the forename Morton!

Thanks Ann_p,

That kind of puts a different angle on things.

I think William disappeared around 1900ish not too long after the birth of their last child?

The fact there's no trace of any of them is strange...mind boggling so it would seem viable for the whole family to relocate?

Peter mentioned he would need to pay quite a lot of £ for the marriage but I'm unsure if he has gone ahead & ordered it?

Annie
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: anne_p on Thursday 22 June 17 01:42 BST (UK)
The reason that I think that OZ is the obvious place is Margaret's own sister, Elizabeth Casey who married in 1888
I don't know where she married in NZ but the birth info on Ancestry shows that all of her children were registered in Palmerston, Otago from 1889 through to 1902 before this family moved to Helenburgh NSW.

Their brother, Peter Casey was already living in Helenburgh at this time
Sadly, the 1910 death annoucement for their brother Andrew Casey does not state where he died.
Only that he travelled extensively during his career in shipping.
I would guess that he died overseas, possibly Hong Kong?
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Thursday 22 June 17 01:51 BST (UK)
thanks again for all that imformation i havent orderd any paper work yet i was just going to order my gg grandmother margaret her new wedding certificate to see if it had on widdower or divorced is it worth getting that  cost me 30$ au to get for 2 words  widower or divorced   
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Rosinish on Thursday 22 June 17 02:28 BST (UK)
Peter, the MC would have to be your decision.

It depends on how keen you are to find out any details?

I don't know how much that is in English £s?

Can you tell us where in Oz your g/father & g g/father went to work please if you know?

Was it the same place as Elizabeth Casey married (Palmerston, Otago)?

Can you confirm when it was William went missing?


Anne_p,

Do you think Margaret may have come over from Oz to marry in NZ?

Would she have had to state where in Oz she'd lived or would she only need to give her daughter's address?

I wonder who the witnesses were?

Annie

Edited......Lack of concentration, mind elsewhere  ::)
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Thursday 22 June 17 02:51 BST (UK)
i can not tell you much about that part gold rush in that time so bathurst nsw //ballarat vic or even in west australia kalloolgoorlie  / boulder  west australia //entry ports for that place  wore  from   esprance   albany or fremantle perth perth yes it is said my grn dad came to australia/oz and came back when he was 20 so in between the last birth of there child i think 1891 there is  12 to 15 years of william my grandads life to be accounted for but as long we could see if great grand dad died in australia or back in newzealand sorry im not much use on that
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: whiteout7 on Thursday 22 June 17 02:56 BST (UK)


Was it the same place as Elizabeth Casey married (Palmerston, Otago)?

NZbdm 1888/130   Elizabeth   Casey  Samuel Henry   Hollows

Palmerston, Otago is in New Zealand.

Still trying to figure out how you know this is Margaret Caseys sister, Paperspast?
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Rosinish on Thursday 22 June 17 03:06 BST (UK)
Was it the same place as Elizabeth Casey married (Palmerston, Otago)?

Palmerston, Otago is in New Zealand.

 ;D  ::) Duh....

Was just testing you were all more awake than I am  ;D

Think at times only half of my wee brain works.

I actually know where it is & know someone who lives there  ::)

Annie
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: whiteout7 on Thursday 22 June 17 03:14 BST (UK)
Lol, I write stuff I don't mean all the time.

The New South Wales bdm could offer two William Hendersons that might be William Henderson that was married to Margaret Casey. (search between 1894 and 1936). If he died in NSW?

HENDERSON  WILLIAM 9885/1916 WILLIAM ANNIE E STROUD

HENDERSON  WILLIAM 1878/1912 WILLIAM MARY HURSTVILLE

Hurstville is in Sydney this is the closer of the two to Helenburgh NSW where Elizabeth Casey was ....

Perhaps Margaret Henderson (nee Casey) came home to her married daughter Isabella Brooking in 1912 and then remarried in 1916? (Margaret Henderson would have been about 62 years old on second marriage?)
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Thursday 22 June 17 04:12 BST (UK)
hi i got an email from archway nz they said no record of william and maragaret divorcing  so i guess he did die either in australia or in new zealand thats all they said they could help me with
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Thursday 22 June 17 04:19 BST (UK)
i hird that he was offerd some land or compensation for what reason i dont know and then they said he went to australia i got that from my auntie years ago but didnt take it quiet  in to my head over my sholders at the time but its comming back now i tryed looking at mining grants and gouvenment grants couldnt find  any for him
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Rosinish on Thursday 22 June 17 04:35 BST (UK)
The thing too is, without any real proof of anything from when William disappeared you need to keep an open mind.

If he did 'do a runner' then after 7 yrs of no correspondence etc. he could then remarry!

I'm not saying he did but there's always that possibility.

I'm unsure how it would work as I've no experience of such things but I would have thought that Margaret would have had to have had some kind of legal paperwork declaring William deceased (even if he wasn't) & if there was no paperwork of such (if it would have been required) then she maybe knew more than she let on & found out that he had died?

Not sure I've worded that properly for others to understand?

Maybe someone with more knowledge would know the procedure & know where to look?


Annie
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Forfarian on Thursday 22 June 17 08:04 BST (UK)
NZbdm 1888/130   Elizabeth   Casey  Samuel Henry   Hollows
Still trying to figure out how you know this is Margaret Caseys sister, Paperspast?

See http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=773229.msg6265135#msg6265135. Mary Arbuckle or Casey's son Andrew was named as brother of Elizabeth Hollows.
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: anne_p on Thursday 22 June 17 09:19 BST (UK)
I found another 1910 death announcement for Andrew Casey in The Cairns Post dated 30 Jul 1910
He died in Hong Kong

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/39871462?searchTerm=peter%20casey%2C%20helensburgh&searchLimits=sortby=dateAsc|||l-decade=191|||l-year=1910

The original announcement that I located appeared in The Star ( Sydney NSW) on 18 Jun 1910 but, gave no indication of where he died.

Other articles relating to Peter Casey of Coledale, NSW, his wife Margaret Irwin and their children are found in various NSW publications.

Today, I spotted a tree on Ancestry.
This tree also shows that Elizabeth Casey who married Samuel Hollows in NZ 1888 was the daughter of Peter Casey and Mary Arbuckle.
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Thursday 22 June 17 10:03 BST (UK)
my father used to talk to me about captain casey when i was a child he said he was a hero in the boxer rebellion said he saved lots of chineese from slaughter from the boxers how can i find that family tree
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Thursday 22 June 17 10:06 BST (UK)
its a shame we cand find william hendersons death notice it would put lots of mistrey to rest for sure
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: anne_p on Thursday 22 June 17 10:39 BST (UK)
There are 3 trees on Ancestry for the Family of Elizabeth Casey and Samuel Hollows.

All of them follow the  marriage and descendency for their daughter Catherine who married James Gildo Bruce in 1918 and all have copied the same photos of Elizabeth and Samuel.

No tree  seems to be aware that Elizabeth Casey had  older sisters named  Mary & Margaret because they did not locate the Casey family prior to 1871

EDIT:
It seems that Andrew Casey was married.
Died in Hong Kong on 14 May 1910 age 49      ( age fits)
Stone erected by his loving wife, Constance

https://gwulo.com/node/8740

Photo of his grave:
https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=94165000
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Thursday 22 June 17 12:05 BST (UK)
i just saw a william henderson died  1899  and buried at helensbrough cemerty   i wonder i think   they wore around there,, it dosent say much just his name at that cemerty coat mining town
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Rosinish on Thursday 22 June 17 12:47 BST (UK)
Peter,

Do you have the site name where you found that death please or the link?

Annie
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Thursday 22 June 17 13:01 BST (UK)
sameul  hollows is buried at helensbrough cematry in wollonggong area nsw  but wise eleaibeth peter lived in that area
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Thursday 22 June 17 13:15 BST (UK)
the william henderson was in 1999 not 1899 sorry
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Rosinish on Thursday 22 June 17 13:37 BST (UK)
We all make mistakes as you will note above  :D

Annie
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Wednesday 28 June 17 11:12 BST (UK)
i didnt get a message
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Friday 30 June 17 10:07 BST (UK)
hi again just trying to figure out how to get more imformation on peter henderson married to agnes thompson  father to william henderson and wife to ann Mcgill
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Sunday 02 July 17 09:18 BST (UK)
any luck on peter and agnes .?..
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: whiteout7 on Sunday 02 July 17 09:53 BST (UK)
More on Andrew Casey he died on the 13th of May at the Government Civil Hospital and he was once the Captain of a vessel called the SS Hing Lee - perhaps that will help find more history

http://eresources.nlb.gov.sg/newspapers/
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Sunday 02 July 17 10:20 BST (UK)
thats good thanks  for that imformation   is there anyway to get imformation on peter henderson and agnes thompson or is that pushing the limits
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Tuesday 04 July 17 13:40 BST (UK)
i been tring to get any detailed maps of  muldron row   west calder  from 1840 to 1900  not much luck can any one help
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Forfarian on Tuesday 04 July 17 14:34 BST (UK)
i been tring to get any detailed maps of  muldron row   west calder  from 1840 to 1900  not much luck can any one help

http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=17&lat=55.8035&lon=-3.7326&layers=5&b=1

Nothing left of Muldron Row now
http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NS9157
but Muldron still exists
http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NS9258
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Tuesday 04 July 17 21:40 BST (UK)
thanks again for the help
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Rosinish on Tuesday 04 July 17 22:37 BST (UK)
I looked at the death of Ann McGill or Henderson. She is described as the widow of William Henderson, miner, and daughter of Morton McGill and Ann, maiden surname not listed, or it might be McGill again.

Forfarian,

Can I ask where William Henderson & Ann McGill were both born please?

Apologies if I've missed it on this long thread or forgot?

Annie
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: anne_p on Tuesday 04 July 17 22:59 BST (UK)
Annie,
This is also where I came unstuck and could not positively identify William or Ann/Agnes on earlier census

William Henderson's place of birth shows on all census returns as: Crawfordjohn, Lanarkshire
Ann/Agnes McGill's place of birth fluctuates between Ireland and Maybole, Ayrshire ( no difference eh!)
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Tuesday 04 July 17 23:05 BST (UK)
that is a very good question i would love to know that myself so i can carry on hope you guys can help
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Rosinish on Tuesday 04 July 17 23:07 BST (UK)
William Henderson's place of birth shows on all census returns as: Crawfordjohn, Lanarkshire
Ann/Agnes McGill's place of birth fluctuates between Ireland and Maybole, Ayrshire ( no difference eh!)

Thanks Anne,

At least he's consistent  ;D

I think we all need to take up shorthand  :D

Annie
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Forfarian on Tuesday 04 July 17 23:11 BST (UK)
Can I ask where William Henderson & Ann McGill were both born please?
Apologies if I've missed it on this long thread or forgot?
  I see I've been beaten to it - just as well because I too had forgotten  :-[
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Tuesday 04 July 17 23:17 BST (UK)
so williams  father was peter and agnes henderson  thats one back from william and ann Mcgill  is it
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Tuesday 04 July 17 23:17 BST (UK)
8 am here so still getting it together
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: anne_p on Tuesday 04 July 17 23:49 BST (UK)
Quote from Forfarian
"I looked at the death of Ann McGill or Henderson. She is described as the widow of William Henderson, miner, and daughter of Morton McGill and Ann, maiden surname not listed, or it might be McGill again."

I am reposting the 1861 census

William Henderson   43 Ironstone Miner b Crawfordjohn, Lanarkshire
Agnes Henderson   38
William Henderson   13
Agnes Henderson   9
John Henderson   8
Mindy Mcgill   84 Father in Law b Ireland ( this must be Ann/Agnes's father)


There does not appear to be a death in Scotland for anyone who fits the profile of Ann/Agnes's father.

On the offchance that anyone else looks at this man....

I think we can discount Montgomery McGill who died in MAYBOLE 1864 aged 83yrs
Census data states he was born in Ayrshire
Married to Robina Porteous in Maybole 1814.
All children born in Maybole or Dailly and no child named Ann or Agnes appears on any census or listed among the births on FS.

Forfarian,
Can you tell us the occupations for the fathers of  both William and Ann which should be stated on their death certs?
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Rosinish on Wednesday 05 July 17 00:07 BST (UK)
Anne....

Talk about MI5....this is like MI LIVE  ;D

I have a wee bit of a sense of humour & a bit of poetry in me!  :D

Our questions show interest though!  :P

Annie
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Wednesday 05 July 17 00:15 BST (UK)
so william born around 1822 at crawfordjohn  is that it does it show his parents names  i thougt it might have been peter and agness henderson might be wrong so im asking all the brains trust there
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Rosinish on Wednesday 05 July 17 00:29 BST (UK)
Peter,

The names you see are from census records which are only the people in a household on the night the census was taken.

The info. included is names/ages/occupations/residence (at time census was taken) & place of birth.

Annie
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: anne_p on Wednesday 05 July 17 00:42 BST (UK)
I'm sure that it was Forfarian who located the death of William Henderson which stated that his parents were called Peter & Agnes

I can't locate William or these parents at 1841.

I find it odd that William and Ann/Agnes had 3 known sons ( William, James and John) yet none were named for either of their grandfathers... ie fathers listed on the death certs of William and Ann/Agnes?




Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Wednesday 05 July 17 00:47 BST (UK)
if odd for you totally  Odd for my thinking
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Rosinish on Wednesday 05 July 17 00:54 BST (UK)
I'm sure that it was Forfarian who located the death of William Henderson which stated that his parents were called Peter & Agnes

I can't locate William or these parents at 1841.

I find it odd that William and Ann/Agnes had 3 known sons ( William, James and John) yet none were named for either of their grandfathers... ie fathers listed on the death certs of William and Ann/Agnes?

Anne..

Just to bring things forward & your right  ???....

I looked at the death of Ann McGill or Henderson. She is described as the widow of William Henderson, miner, and daughter of Morton McGill and Ann, maiden surname not listed, or it might be McGill again.

So William was alive in 1861, but dead by 1872. Sure enough, he died in Whitburn in 1867, parents Peter Henderson and Agnes Thomson.

From the 1851, 1861 and 1871 censuses noted upthread William and Ann/Agnes McGill had
William, born 1846/7
James, born 1848/9
Agnes, born 1851/2
John, born 1852/3
Isabella, born 1862/3

From the IGI, they had
Marion, born 4 December 1857
Marion, born 8 December 1859
Isabella, born 23 May 1862
Margaret, born 10 May 1865

Of those, only Isabella was with her parents in 1871.

Marion Henderson, aged 0, died in Whitburn in 1858
Marion Henderson, age not listed, died in Whitburn in 1860
Margaret Henderson, aged 2, died in Whitburn in 1866

Of course it may be that 'a' Peter is missing as not all records have survived & you would expect the 1st son to be named Peter.

I don't know where/when they married?

Annie
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Wednesday 05 July 17 01:04 BST (UK)
you doing your best thanks for trying
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: anne_p on Wednesday 05 July 17 01:14 BST (UK)
Rosinish,
I can't find any trace of the Henderson/ McGill marriage either.
Marital info was added to birth certs from 1861 onwards


Therefore, the parents marriage date and place should be entered onto the 1862 birth cert for the child named Isabella and also the 1865 birth cert for the child named Margaret.
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Rosinish on Wednesday 05 July 17 03:17 BST (UK)
You're right Anne but.....

I think we have spent enough of our own money for now on certs. to be honest.

Maybe Peter could join www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk & buy a few credits to view some certs. & census records which we could guide him through?

Annie
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Wednesday 05 July 17 03:25 BST (UK)
please let me know how to remburse you and i will my eyes so bad to do alot so let me know how
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Rosinish on Wednesday 05 July 17 03:36 BST (UK)
Peter,

I'm not looking to be reimbursed!

All I'm saying is I think we have spent enough of our own £ on this line (we also spend money on other queries) as well as our own.

If you join the site I gave you the link for, we can guide you through it to find the necessary docs. you need.
The site is very low cost & downloadable there & then i.e. no snail mail.

If need be, you could email them to Tom (Bookbox) who will gladly help decipher everything.


Annie
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Wednesday 05 July 17 03:43 BST (UK)
ok thanks for all your help it has been good  what you have done for me i will try join   thans again ann
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Sparkles27 on Monday 10 July 17 03:33 BST (UK)
Hi Kiwican

How are you?  Hopefully what I'm about to tell you will make your day.  My name is Erin, I live in New Zealand and have just started researching my family tree.  My Mum is Beverley Henderson your Dads (Billy) sister.  I have joined ancestry and came across by chance your posts, on this site.  I have some stories, but more importantly some wonderful photos of you Grandfather.  Look forward to hearing from you soon, and you have made my day!!!
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Monday 10 July 17 03:54 BST (UK)
hi wonderfull to meet you at last   the last time i saw your mum was in 1972 so lots of water under the bridge for sure the people here at roots chat have been so helpfull to us i have been able to trace ggdad and his ather ect i have had a dna test with the henderson in usa they will send me my matches  i have a son called william after grand dad and his dad ect i have been in contact with katikati historical society they have been good as well i sent them some photos my dad bill passed away last year  age 89 had a full life hows beverly  must be in 90s is auntie ok i hope so
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Sparkles27 on Monday 10 July 17 04:30 BST (UK)
So sorry to hear about Bill.  I have a lovely photo of him with a mate, and daughters Shiralee, Lorraine and Julie.  It was sent to Mum some years ago now.  Wow! I'm so happy to make contact with you. Mum is very well, 90 in February and having a party apparently ha!  Just gave her a call and she is really emotional. I have just browsed through your posts. Mum did genealogy research in the 90s, before we all had computers, and she was not able to find more on Great Grandad Henderson, so what you have found out is fantastic.  I am writing down all her memories and it is incredible the names and events she can recall.  I have a couple of photos of Margaret Casey and I think we have info on children and partners etc.    I would love to share all the info and photos for you and your family.  I have just joined this chat today, how do you think is the best way to get photos etc to you?  So funny I was thinking about doing DNA as well 
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Monday 10 July 17 04:39 BST (UK)
joan in katikati historical society has my email im formation ask them about me peter henderson in sydney australia i was talking to them last week i and doing the stuff fro waimangora now when grandad was a kid i have 3 children melisa william carl
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Sparkles27 on Monday 10 July 17 05:05 BST (UK)
Sounds good Peter.  I will give Joan a call and/or pop over to see her.  I'm not far away.  I will call into the Waihi Museum as well, because they have archives stored there, and Granddad was in Brass Bands in Waihi in the early 1900's.  I have those photos, and a couple with Eva.  Did you know that he was previously married and has other children?  That was news to me, as Mum has not let on over the years, and it's all coming out in the past few months.  Timing!!  I will do a list of Grandads brothers and sisters too. Hopefully we can put the puzzle pieces together and get the family sorted.  I have a 19 year old son James, who looks very much like Granddad.  Lovely to chat, will get back in touch soon,  Take care Erin
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Monday 10 July 17 05:13 BST (UK)
thats so good im sure joan will pass my contact details on to you   if not ill put email here for you ok so good this happend at last im not very well 60 bad lungs so i told my kids i have to do all this noww my kis and wife went to hobbitville few months ago  kids loved nz ok thanks cousin  erin  from peter
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Rosinish on Sunday 16 July 17 13:22 BST (UK)
Hi Peter,

Great you have Erin onboard to help with info. on your tree.

To exchange email addresses you will need to use the PM (Private Message) System as we are not allowed to post them on the board.

If you look to your left under Erin's username Sparkles27, there are 2 symbols, one is a paper scroll which is the right side one, if you click on that you will be able to send Erin your email address or she could do the same with your username kiwican as she has posted enough messages to be able to use it.

Annie
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Sunday 16 July 17 13:37 BST (UK)
ok thank you for that advise i will follow that instruction from now on
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: tidybooks on Monday 17 July 17 11:02 BST (UK)
Hi Peter,

Great news about your relative joining RootsChat, what a boost that is. As well as using the PM system, keep posting some of the information you receive from Erin, so we can tell if we were correct.

Tom Buchanan
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Monday 17 July 17 11:18 BST (UK)
yes tom it was good after 45 year gap in contact  with erin and beverly  alot to talk about we seen to have same problem william went missing when went to sydney with family in about 1892 but his son william jnr and his mother and brothets sisters came back to nz before 1901 /2  but his father my great grand dad gone shame but i hope to find more links to lines ect when i get my y111dna back hope its worth while cause as i said before if there is any good pointers to the branch ill take my children there next year to the tatoo and grand tour of scotland  might stop off at harrypotter set and dr who set as well childhood dream thanks tom let you know how it goes thanks to all for your help again
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Tuesday 18 July 17 06:01 BST (UK)
william jr was back in new zealand  by 1905  married 1905 to ellen mc cormack  divorced 8 march 1929
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Dumbarton17 on Wednesday 19 July 17 10:52 BST (UK)
Hello to Peter,
I am a great-grandson of William snr and Margaret Henderson.
My grandmother was Isabella Henderson who was born on Denniston Hill, Waimangaroa, NZ
in 1883.
I am searching for William snr history also and have recently been to Scotland searching the nooks and crannies for information.
I can offer the following if it is of help:
His age when arriving on the Strahnaver in 1874 was listed as 24 on the manifest (1850)
His age listed on the copy of the original Birth cert of isabella is 37years (1846)
His birthplace is listed as Boness in Linlithgowshire.
The railway at Boness was well developed in 1874 and so he likely got the train to London to embark.
He was an assisted immigrant to NZ and was accompanied by Margaret (20) john Henderson-single (20) Isabella (11) and John (son-1)
Most of the family moved to NSW in October 1891.
There is evidence that they were in Hartley/ Lithgow,NSW in 1897
there is evidence that family members were in Waihi, NZ in 1905 Margaret married again in 1916
Margaret died in Auckland NZ in 1936 having outlived her second husband.
 I searched long and hard in Scotland and so far I have not got a birth cert or a marriage cert for either William snr or Margaret; but the Scottish breakfasts make the trip worth while anyway!
I expect I will find him somewhere in Australia on my next trip.
All the best with your impending trip to Scotland whatever the outcome.
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Wednesday 19 July 17 11:16 BST (UK)
dumbarton  can you please send me pm  when i try send you one it tells me your message box full
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Forfarian on Wednesday 19 July 17 11:21 BST (UK)
kiwican, you won't be able to exchange PMs with Dumbarton17 until he has posted 2 more messages on the forum.
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Wednesday 19 July 17 11:29 BST (UK)
ok thanks ill waite and see
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Dumbarton17 on Wednesday 19 July 17 14:25 BST (UK)
Hello again Peter,
Further to my last dispatch:
The Strathnaver left London in 1874 bound for NZ. William and Margaret were on board when it arrived in Wellington NZ, and they were listed as a family and John snr was transfered to single mans quarters on the ship.
The ship was full of English miners as well and so William may have been working away from Scotland when they married and John jnr was born.
The first child born in NZ was Mary who was born at the Aorere goldfields in Collingwood, Golden Bay in 1875.
It is interesting to note that Margarets death certificate lists her mothers name as Mary.
His first son was named John.
We might suppose that this hints that the traditional Scottish naming system may be at work and William snrs father would be named John.
Another interesting thing is that William jnr (his son) lists his fathers occupation as carpenter on his marriage certificate.presumably a change in career as he got older?
By my records they had nine children in NZ jncl John.
cheers
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Dumbarton17 on Friday 21 July 17 04:04 BST (UK)
Hello again Peter,
Your pm's are coming through to me but my replies appear to be not returning.
So some info on my trip:
Scotlands People first day: Wellingtons statue outside seemed to be waving my wife and myself away.
So it was, as we found a negative and discouraging attendant at the front desk. Despite travelling from the other side of the world, we left the first encounter without getting to see any records, very disillusioned and wondering about the point of SP.
However the next day= new people and it was like a breath of fresh air and we had a great day researching both wife ancestors and Hendersons. Staff were very helpful and pleasant. We used the Onamastic child naming system to see if we could make a breakthrough but not enough info.
Another group we met along the way was Aberdeen and North-east Scotland Family History Society; a great group of skilled, experienced and enthusiastic researchers.
We also checked Callendar House, Falkirk, near Bo'ness where an archive is kept of church records such as Banns of Marriage, assistance to the poor etc. No info found of relevance though.
We also investigated the Glasgow City archives in pursuit of some record of William and Margaret's Marriage. They also rechecked our investigations on Scotlands People with no success.
The mystery of their marriage still remains although we solved another which involved a severe misspelling on the old records of a name belonging to my Wife's ancestor.
We also had a tour of the National Mining Museum, in Newtongrange Midlothian. I would thoroughly recommend it and your children would love it. They solved the mystery of why my Grandad (also a Miner) dunked his bread and jam in his tea!
Cheers
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Friday 21 July 17 04:14 BST (UK)
my name is peter can i have a first name please
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Dumbarton17 on Friday 21 July 17 04:21 BST (UK)
Hello Peter,
I am Kevin, son of Richard Raymond and Grandson of Isabella Henderson/ Brooking.
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Tuesday 25 July 17 04:06 BST (UK)
william henderson jnr came back to auckland nz on a ship called the tasmania in 1897 so must have been in australia for 5 years or so    sydney nsw to auckland no other members of the family listed on the ship
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Monday 31 July 17 07:54 BST (UK)
william henderson died  on the 3 rd june  1892 may he rest in peace
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Monday 31 July 17 07:55 BST (UK)
william jnr came back to nz in 1897   from sydney
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Forfarian on Monday 31 July 17 09:02 BST (UK)
william henderson died  on the 3 rd june  1892 may he rest in peace
Where?
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Dumbarton17 on Monday 31 July 17 09:30 BST (UK)
The info comes from Margaret Henderson,s marriage certificate to O'connell, and so we assume it is in NSW Australia were they went in October 1891, according to NZ school records.We are searching for a death certificate as we speak..
Cheers
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Forfarian on Monday 31 July 17 09:35 BST (UK)
That is interesting. I didn't know that a widow(er)'s marriage certificate in NSW contains the date of death of the deceased spouse.
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Monday 31 July 17 09:48 BST (UK)
she remarried in auckland in 1916 it said widow  3 june 1892
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Dumbarton17 on Monday 31 July 17 10:02 BST (UK)
It also listed her Parents names as Peter Casey and Mary Arbuckle, as your contributers deduced.
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Monday 31 July 17 10:19 BST (UK)
got a death certificate today  but it was from january 1892  will contact them again to send the one dated 3 june 1892  as wrong person name was willam mother maragret  but father george
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Forfarian on Monday 31 July 17 10:29 BST (UK)
It also listed her Parents names as Peter Casey and Mary Arbuckle, as your contributers deduced.
Excellent! That seems to nail it all quite well.
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: anne_p on Monday 31 July 17 10:50 BST (UK)
Dumbarton's post re the death of Margaret proves that her last name was Casey and not Buchanan which is where the discrepancy started

It seems that her name would indeed be Margaret Buchanan Casey.
She mas named for her paretnal grandmother... Margaret Buchanan

I am still of the opinion than son John's birth was registered with mother name showing as  Margaret Buchanan because his mother's name was taken from the 1872  marriage cert showing her name as Buchanan.

I still haven't located a death for Margaret's own mother, Mary Casey MS Arbuckle but given that after being widowed, most of her children are known to be in New Zealand and or Australia, I suspect she may have emigrated with them.

I am  fairly certain that she was the daughter of Andrew Arbuckle and Mary Shaw of Cambuslang
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Forfarian on Monday 31 July 17 11:04 BST (UK)
I agree with you. It's been an interesting thread.

Has anyone found a marriage and/or death certificate of John Henderson to see if it confirms these conclusions?
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Dumbarton17 on Monday 31 July 17 11:14 BST (UK)
There was no-one listed on the manifest of the Strathnaver" with the name Casey but an Elizabeth Casey married Hollows in Otago NZ and moved to Australia as i recall. Trying to find a reference now.
A john and a Peter Casey also appear in NSW around the time Margaret arrives there. Passed me by when I was not looking for them. I will revert and see what I can find. cheers. :)
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: anne_p on Monday 31 July 17 11:51 BST (UK)
Oh!

Changing the subject very slightly........
Remembering that Peter Casey married Mary Arbuckle.

I am now fairly certain that each of them had a sibling who were also a married couple!

Andrew Arbuckle bc 1829 in Cambuslang was also the son of Andrew Arbuckle and Mary Shaw
Peter Casey had a sister named Janet Casey bc 1832.
( I posted the 1841/1851 census  for the Casey family earlier on this thread)

Andrew Arbuckle and Janet Casey married in 1851
They were in Lanarkshire at 1861 and 1871
Last known child born 1877
Andrew and sons only found in Lanarkshire ( Bothwell/Bellshill area)at 1881 but no wife in household.
Cannot locate a death for Janet Arbuckle MS Casey?
1871: Main Street, Bothwell

Andrew Arbuckle   42 B Cambuslang
Janet Arbuckle   38 B Bridgeton
Andrew Arbuckle   18 B Cambuslang
John Arbuckle   16 b Old Monkland
Charles Arbuckle   11 B Dalziel
Archd Arbuckle   8 B Bothwell
Peter Arbuckle   5 B Bothwell
Geo Arbuckle   3 B Bothwell
William C Arbuckle   1 B Bothwell


1881. Main Street
Andrew Arbuckle   52
Charles Arbuckle   21
Peter Arbuckle   15
Wm Arbuckle   11
Alex Arbuckle   8 B Bothwell
James Arbuckle   4 B Bothwell

Cannot locate after this but, some of their sons are known to have moved to Pennsylvania
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Dumbarton17 on Monday 31 July 17 12:02 BST (UK)
John P Casey, married Lithgow NSW, died Newcastle 1934.
Elizabeth Casey married Hollows" in NZ, 1888,
Census 1932: Hellensburgh, NSW
Census 1949: Mudgee, NSW

sorry, midnight, turning into pumpkin, will return with more info tomorrow
cheers,
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Sunday 13 August 17 06:57 BST (UK)
still trying to find a marriage certificate  of peter henderson  and agness thompson   parents of william henderson  and his wife ann mcgill
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Rosinish on Sunday 27 August 17 03:53 BST (UK)
I am now fairly certain that each of them had a sibling who were also a married couple!

Andrew Arbuckle bc 1829 in Cambuslang was also the son of Andrew Arbuckle and Mary Shaw
Peter Casey had a sister named Janet Casey bc 1832.
( I posted the 1841/1851 census  for the Casey family earlier on this thread)

Anne,

I haven't scrolled back to check but is this Andrew & Janet Casey?...

1881 Address Nimmos’ Land, Blantyre
Parish Blantyre ED 6; Pg 29 Line 12 Roll cssct1881_202

Andrew Arbuckle 49 (1832) Coal Miner b Cambuslang
Janet Arbuckle (Spouse) 48 b Cambuslang
Archibald Arbuckle Son 21 b Bellshill
Marion Arbuckle 17 Dau b Bellshill
Andrew Arbuckle 15 Son b Wishaw
Margaret Arbuckle 13 Dau b Motherwell
Mary Arbuckle 10 Dau b Motherwell
Janet McGill 19 Dau b Bellshill
John McGill 3 Months G/Son b Motherwell

Annie
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Rosinish on Sunday 27 August 17 04:01 BST (UK)
Above family...

1871 9 Baillies Square, Dalziel
Parish Dalziel ED 2 Page 21 Line 9 Roll CSSCT1871_122

Andrew Arbuckle 39
Janet Arbuckle 38
John Arbuckle 16
Isabella Arbuckle 14
Archibald Arbuckle 11
Janet Arbuckle 9
Marion Arbuckle 7
Andrew Arbuckle 5***
Margaret Arbuckle 3
Mary Arbuckle 9mo

Annie

Add...

1901 1 Joanna Terrace, Blantyre
Parish Blantyre ED 4 Page 31 Line 11 Roll CSSCT1901_246

Andrew Arbuckle   Head 35***
Catherine Arbuckle Wife 43 b Fauldhouse, Linlithgowshire
Andrew Arbuckle   Father 69
Catherine Nisbet   Niece 15 b Bonets, Linlithgowshire (likely Boness)
Davidson Strath   Lodger 29 b Crieff, Perthshire

Annie
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Sunday 27 August 17 04:15 BST (UK)
still looking for peter henderson and agnes thompson wedding and birth  i got no hair left now and for william henderson born 1849 my gg grand father he is still missing last known location hartley vale 1893/96 then gone .Missing his family was back in waihi nz in 1905 so 9 year gap still looking
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Friday 20 October 17 06:28 BST (UK)
i have still been looking for my great grand fathers place of death but no luck at all so far i will keep searching though
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Wednesday 08 November 17 09:14 GMT (UK)
im still looking no luck i hope one day might just find him
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Friday 02 March 18 10:15 GMT (UK)
still no luck in tracking down william henderson after 6 months lost track of him from hartley vale nsw from 1897
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Sunday 27 May 18 10:19 BST (UK)
6 months of research but still a brick wall finding william henderson
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Dumbarton17 on Friday 01 June 18 01:44 BST (UK)
Not quite correct Peter. We have a William Henderson who died in Nelson, New Zealand "Lunatic Asylum" from "'lung congestion", after 11 days from the onset. A typical long term miners ailment.
The year is 1892 which tallies with Wife Margaret's declaration on her second marriage certificate.
Problem is no relative listed on death certificate or on the Parish Register.
Age is listed as 54Y when it should be 46 but, given he appears to be unknown at death, this may have been a guess by the Hospital staff.
I am seeking Hospital admission records to see if there is anything further to add or if anyone knows anything about him??
Thanks for the great work already done on this thread.  :)
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Rosinish on Friday 01 June 18 02:36 BST (UK)
Interesting indeed!

It would be the icing on the cake for a thread of info. from the admissions records relating to at least 1 family member or something connecting to tie up the loose end.

Annie

Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Friday 01 June 18 03:10 BST (UK)
Thank for the on going help looking for william henderson  1892 looks close the rest of the family margaret   william jn john isabella must have still went to hartley vale nsw and came back to nz 1900 there is a photo of william jnr in waimangaroa in 1899 then he goes to.auckland then moves to waihi nz
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Dumbarton17 on Friday 01 June 18 03:22 BST (UK)
Hi Annie,
Well, we have located Williams sister Isabella who arrived with him on the Strathnaver in 1874.
Unfortunately the story is not a happy one.
Isabella married Reginald McGrane, a miner, in Aorere (now Collingwood) in Golden Bay NZ in 1881.
she was 18 at the time.
She died there in 1883 and is buried in the old settler cemetery in Collingwood. There is a child buried with her.
Williams daughter born in 1883 was, I speculate, named after her.

On a happier note we found Margaret's sisters, Mary and Elizabeth Casey, arrived with brothers Peter and John and Mary's infant son William in Nelson, NZ in 1883.
They were on the ship "Westland"
Peter Casey is listed on the manifest as aged 16 and a Lanark miner!
Elizabeth is listed as aged 12y and she was listed in the Waimangaroa 1884 school register.
Elizabeth is recorded in NZ BDM records as marrying Samuel Hollows, another miner in 1888.
They had a number of children born in NZ and moved to Helensburgh, New South Wales in 1904.
I believe you have the latter in your records.
Elizabeth lived to a ripe old age of 86 in NSW.

I hope this fills some of the question marks in your research so-far.

Will update with more when possible.

Best regards.


Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Dumbarton17 on Friday 01 June 18 04:03 BST (UK)
Hi Peter,
The central problem is that there is no evidence of the presence of William Snr after conception in 1892 in NSW.
The photo of Margaret and 5 children does not include William and was produced by Sibert the travelling photographer. He was in lithgow in 1891-92.
The photo shows 3 boys the youngest is about 2 or 3.
So that suggests the children are Peter, Andrew, James, Elizabeth and Isabella.There is no baby Samuel.

William Snr is clearly absent from the marriage of his first child Mary in 1894, as Margaret gave her permission for the marriage. Unusual if William was around.
Even the style of the registration of the birth is odd with the listing of Margaret as "Maggie"
This is more the style of younger person or a sibling and is not found in the birth certs of any other of his children .I suggest it may have been done by William jnr. He could inform the fact of the birth and legally sign as William Henderson.

So far no death has been found for him in NSW.
I am not suggesting the Nelson death is the final solution but it is the best lead we have at the moment.
Conversely, if it is him and we ignore it we will never find William.

cheers,   :D
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Friday 01 June 18 04:35 BST (UK)
Yes you are so right on that  if he died just before they left for hartleyvale  i hope nelson hospital has a bit more imformation on him
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Sunday 22 July 18 05:01 BST (UK)
Got his death certificate  but no family names on it  so hit a wall again
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Rosinish on Sunday 22 July 18 22:54 BST (UK)
Who was the informant of the death, what was their address or occupation (anything at all) as you may be able to track down a connection there of some sort, somehow?

Annie
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Sunday 22 July 18 23:12 BST (UK)
it was just issued from the hospital dr staff no name saying relation to william henderson the rest of the family went to hartley vale nsw that year 1892  very strange and on my great grand mother new wedding certificate when she remarried it said her first husband died june 1892



Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Rosinish on Sunday 22 July 18 23:29 BST (UK)
What was the actual date of the DC you have?

Does this tie in with the info. given by your g g/mother?

If so then it would appear you have the correct DC (I think)?

Annie
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Sunday 22 July 18 23:59 BST (UK)
The dates dont match exactly  she remarried in 1916 and on that certificate said   widow  from  3rd june 1892  on death certificate said he died  24th may 1892
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Rosinish on Monday 23 July 18 00:36 BST (UK)
The dates dont match exactly  she remarried in 1916 and on that certificate said   widow  from  3rd june 1892  on death certificate said he died  24th may 1892

I think the date '3rd Jun 1892' was possibly when his widow 'was told/found out' by whatever means? i.e. I wouldn't concentrate too much on the 'exact' date from the DC (if it was myself)?

Was there a note of his occupation which would tie in or cause of death relating to an occupation possibly, how long he'd suffered his 'cause of death'? Anything to relate back to a possible for your man?

Any connections to the areas he died which you know of?

It does seem to tie in although (I've lost track over time).

Annie
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Monday 23 July 18 01:01 BST (UK)
It said lungs pneymonia 3 days then died it just never had family sighn on it just drs in nelson hospital
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Monday 22 October 18 09:53 BST (UK)
more information found out that this was not my great grandfather in in nelson hospital in 1892 so our search goes on  for William
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Sunday 12 May 19 22:58 BST (UK)
more information found out that this was not my great grandfather in in nelson hospital in 1892 so our search goes on  for William    william was   said to be working in the helensburgh colliery area in 1893/94 after leaving hartley vale
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: majm on Sunday 12 May 19 23:52 BST (UK)
more information found out that this was not my great grandfather in in nelson hospital in 1892 so our search goes on  for William    william was   said to be working in the helensburgh colliery area in 1893/94 after leaving hartley vale

Something is confusing me.   I have quoted the above post from today.  It has information that did not appear in the post back in 2018 nor when I quoted it  yesterday on another thread ... Read on

Hi,  on a very very long thread there's a post about your William's death 
william henderson died  on the 3 rd june  1892 may he rest in peace 
 
and the following quote explains that it was not for your chap  :)  (I am assuming it was for a death in NZ, rather than in Nelson Bay, NSW  :)
more information found out that this was not my great grandfather in in nelson hospital in 1892 so our search goes on  for William


JM

ADD it is around 8:50 am on Monday 13 May 2019 as I note that there's something confusing me.  I can now see that kiwican's quote made in 2018 has been reposted but has been expanded upon without any explanation.  I have long understood that RChat restricts modifications to the first 24 hours only.  Very odd.  JM

Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: majm on Sunday 12 May 19 23:57 BST (UK)
On that other thread, on the Australia board,  Sue posted a live link to a newspaper cutting showing a Margaret HENDERSON was seeking Maintenance from a William HENDERSON. 

Here is the post:

You will need to read this. 1894

I think he did desert if this item has the right man

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/137273261

Sue
 

JM
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Rosinish on Sunday 12 May 19 23:58 BST (UK)
"more information found out that this was not my great grandfather in in nelson hospital in 1892 so our search goes on  for William    william was   said to be working in the helensburgh colliery area in 1893/94 after leaving hartley vale"

I see this a a statement as there's no other info. to tell us how you know the deceased William is definitely not yours nor any info. on who/how you know William may have still been around in 1893/94?

The death 1892 seems a very big coincidence, how have you ruled him out?

Annie

JM...Crossed posts but will leave as is

Add..Have read now, was it not Margaret who said she was a widow when she remarried?
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: majm on Monday 13 May 19 00:01 BST (UK)
Yes,  Agree Annie,  we are not duplicating each other, rather we are striving to sort  ;D

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=812769.0  This is the live link to the thread on the Australia board.

JM
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Monday 13 May 19 00:23 BST (UK)
Yes,  Agree Annie,  we are not duplicating each other, rather we are striving to sort  ;D

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=812769.0  This is the live link to the thread on the Australia board.
 he was in a newspaper article dated 29 september 1894 william and margaret henderson in a listed court matter
JM
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: majm on Monday 13 May 19 00:54 BST (UK)
Yes,  Agree Annie,  we are not duplicating each other, rather we are striving to sort  ;D

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=812769.0  This is the live link to the thread on the Australia board.
 he was in a newspaper article dated 29 september 1894 william and margaret henderson in a listed court matter
JM

Excuse me, BUT ...  I don't often get grumpy ... but ... I did NOT modify my post to include  he was in a newspaper article dated 29 september 1894 william and margaret henderson in a listed court matter They are words added by kiwican.   Please don't mis-represent me by adding your own words to my quote.  Much easier if you want to quote, to actually type your own words OUTSIDE of the quoted post.    Also, you will find that I had already provided the live link to the newspaper cutting you mention, and I had attributed that find to the RChatter who actually posted it in the first instance.   Please do consider acknowledging the fine work of that RChatter, rather than leaving it to seem to take the credit for finding the info William had moved from Hartley Vale to Helensburgh ... and making no mention that Margaret and six children were not with him, etc
more information found out that this was not my great grandfather in in nelson hospital in 1892 so our search goes on  for William    william was   said to be working in the helensburgh colliery area in 1893/94 after leaving hartley vale

JM
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Tuesday 14 May 19 12:51 BST (UK)
i never took credit for knowing my great grandfather had moved away from his family very sad event in there lives and for us today
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Rosinish on Tuesday 16 July 19 12:03 BST (UK)
Rosinish,
I can't find any trace of the Henderson/ McGill marriage either.
Marital info was added to birth certs from 1861 onwards

Therefore, the parents marriage date and place should be entered onto the 1862 birth cert for the child named Isabella and also the 1865 birth cert for the child named Margaret.

I have arrived back here for a different reason but having read over the thread again I see it's now 2 yrs since we recommended the birth of either Isabella or Margaret for the marriage details of their parents if indeed they were married/where & wondered if any progress had been made?


Annie
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Dumbarton17 on Saturday 27 July 19 13:13 BST (UK)
Isabella 1862 stat reg 673/140
died in NZ in 1883

1865 Margaret birth may 9 bapt may 14  Crofthead whitburn, Scottish catholic OP records

1866 died aged 1 year. same source
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Rosinish on Saturday 27 July 19 18:20 BST (UK)
Isabella 1862 stat reg 673/140
died in NZ in 1883

1865 Margaret birth may 9 bapt may 14  Crofthead whitburn, Scottish catholic OP records

1866 died aged 1 year. same source

Sorry to go on about this but...marriage info. is not recorded on a baptism or death record i.e. it's a Statutory birth cert. post 1860 which is needed to find out the date/place of parents marriage.

Annie
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Dumbarton17 on Saturday 27 July 19 22:12 BST (UK)
William Henderson m Anne McGill  23 June 1841 "after proclamation of Banns in the presence of James Henderson and Catherine Brookes by Jerimiah Long"
GBPRS Rom Cath Scot 23 June 1841 #135

The Place was St Andrews, Glascow,  ref Scot Rom Cath OPR ref MP/62 vol 02, sect 01, sub sect 04

Cheers  :)

p.s The marriage is also recorded on Isabella's "Statutory" birth record that I quoted you above.

FYI also, and further to an earlier discussion, the William Henderson that ended his days in the asylum was discounted after a visit to the NZ National Archive revealed that he was admitted to the Asylum on 30 July 1872.
Our William Hsn (Son of the current topic of discussion) did not arrive in NZ until Aug 1874 and thus eliminates our prospect from the search.
Sorry that you were not notified of this.
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Rosinish on Sunday 28 July 19 00:03 BST (UK)
Thanks for the update & the William who has been discounted as it helps RCers when looking for info. to know what's been found & eliminated.

Apologies on the Statutory Birth as it was the marriage details I was referring to at the time which you've now given.

Annie
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: Dumbarton17 on Sunday 18 August 19 07:17 BST (UK)
Hello again,
As you know, William Henderson ( spouse of Agnes McGill ) died in 1867?
On his death cert, his father is named as Peter, and his mother as Agnes Thomson.
I am assuming, for the moment, the mothers name is an error as that is his wife Anne's mothers name.
Now, on the 1851 census he lists his birthplace as Crawfordjohn, Lanarkshire.
Scotlands people have a copy of a Parish record of a Peter Henderson and Marion Thomson giving birth to a Margaret Hsn in 1813, a william Hsn in 1816 and a Peter Hsn in 1818.
The births are recorded in Abington Crawfordjohn.
These names are used widely in the family and are in a customary order.
I think this is his family.
Any thoughts on the matter?

Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Sunday 18 August 19 07:52 BST (UK)
i looked on scotlands people and i think that is the right one  yes spelling wrong for anne but still the link to abington is strong 
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: tidybooks on Tuesday 10 September 19 11:01 BST (UK)
Agnes and Anne are interchangeable, person may be christened as Agnes but known as Anne by the family etc.


http://www.whatsinaname.net/php/search.php?action=search2&search_name=agnes (http://www.whatsinaname.net/php/search.php?action=search2&search_name=agnes)

Tom
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Tuesday 10 September 19 12:27 BST (UK)
That’s good to know
Title: Re: Hendersons of Linlithgowshire
Post by: kiwican on Tuesday 10 September 19 12:28 BST (UK)
Know