RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Dorset => Topic started by: Newberrychaser on Friday 23 June 17 05:27 BST (UK)
-
I am looking for information about where Henry Howard 2nd Viscount of Bindon was buried. He died 1590/1 probably at East Lulworth Dorset. I am not finding much out there in cyberspace. Anyone have information? I am wondering if a strange tower that was located at St. Andrew's church was his tomb. Anyone know and have documentation?
-
Born: 1542
Acceded: 1582
Died: 16 Jan 1590
Father: Thomas HOWARD (1º V. Bindon)
Mother: Elizabeth MARNEY
Married: Frances MEAUTYS (V. Bindon) (dau. of Sir Peter Meauwtys and Jane Ashley)
Son : Douglas HOWARD
He died at Suffolk House, Charing Cross, London, and was buried on 10 June that year in Saffron Walden.
-
There might be some information here:
http://www.eastlulworth.org.uk/
-
www.thepeerage.com goes back several generations of Henry Howards Family.
Search under Howard of Bindon
Trish :)
-
Thanks to all of you for answering. I am interested having a citation for his death. Solidrock, you mentioned:
He died at Suffolk House, Charing Cross, London, and was buried on 10 June that year in Saffron Walden.
Where can I cite back on this? Thanks again everyone. This is a great place to come together.
I am working on an article about Henry Howard's property in Lulworth, and the fact that he seemed to be involved with pirates. He also was apparently insane and spent some time in prison. Sigh . . .
I always seem to come upon the colorful characters.
Just to share a little here, there was a conical tower built at Lulworth St. Andrew in front of the Church of St. Andrew. Sparrow drew a cartouche depicting this tower. He drew it as a tall pyramid. It has been suggested that it might have been a tomb. Some thought it might have been Henry's or his father-in-law John Marney's tomb. Hutchins wrote the most interesting description of it, just calling it a tower. In the medieval period, LSA was located west of Gatemerston, and now is on the MOD Tank Range, so it isn't accessible except with permission and an escort by the military.
Oh, by-the-way, I know this is hard to believe, but Douglas was actually a daughter, not a son.
-
http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/Bios/HenryHoward(2VBindon).htm
Sorry the death and burial was for Theophilus Howard.
You've got me interested now Newberrychaser. I spent a lot of my childhood visiting the Lulworth, my father was a friend of the Sturmey's who lived and worked on the Lulworth estate. It's a long time ago now but I still remember the stories of the "Grey Lady" who was supposed to haunt the castle. I'll do some digging to see what I can find for you. Could he be buried in the Howard Chapel, Lambeth or at Marnhull with his father or Bindon with his brother Thomas?
-
Hello Again Solidrock:
I am happy to discuss Lulworth with you. I have been working on a paper about Dorset and the Newburghs for quite a few years. Knowing someone else who has spent time there is marvelous. My web site is:
www.worldwidenewburghproject.com
I don't always put all my research up there, but have only been working on it for a couple of years. Hope to hear more from you.
;D :D
-
Hello again chatters:
Just received the IPM for Henry Howard all translated. No place of burial was indicated again. Sigh . . . Maybe being engaged with pirates, they buried him at sea. . . Just a guess, don't take this as the truth, as I am just postulating for lack of evidence still.
-
Hello Again Solidrock:
I am happy to discuss Lulworth with you. I have been working on a paper about Dorset and the Newburghs for quite a few years. Knowing someone else who has spent time there is marvelous. My web site is:
www.worldwidenewburghproject.com
I don't always put all my research up there, but have only been working on it for a couple of years. Hope to hear more from you.
;D :D
In your link, this section http://www.worldwidenewburghproject.com/e-lulworth-and-winfrith-newburgh.html
You quote 'Leland' but do not cite which 'Itinerary', just that it is one of two of your sources from either '1790' or '1835'. Is the '1835' source a reference to the 'Hitchens' you mention?
Your 'Leland' hyperlink takes us to 'The Itinerary of John Leland the Antiquary ...[published] 1711' ?
Quote 'Leland' (from your link)
Leland described the manor as follows:
"The goodly Maner Place of the Newborowes Lordes of East Lilleworth is hard by the Paroch Chirch. The Newborows Sepulchres were at Byndon Abbay wherof they were Founders. The laste of that Name, whos doughter and Heyre (heir) was maried to Syr Henry Marney, dyid in Essex or Southfolk and there was byried. There stondith a Tumbe (tomb) in East Lilleworth Chirch that was erectid for his Buryal."
Unquote
The above seems to suggest that a tomb was erected at Lulworth Parish Church, but that the Newborows/Nuburgh? chap it was intended for died in Essex or Suffolk, that he was buried in Essex or Suffolk and that he was the last of the line.
Interesting site. Are you attempting to connect the Dorset landowning Nuburghs to the New England Thomas and Richard Newberrys ?
-
Hello SallyYorks:
Thanks for your reply. It seems there is some confusion in your post. The 1790 and 1835 citations refer to gazetteers, not Leland. So far as I know, there is only one volume of Leland. There is no historian by the name of Hitchins, it is John Hutchins who wrote the History of Dorset. His work has been republished several times. 1774, 1779, 1861 and 1865. The volumes that I have had the privilege to work with are the later volumes, although I do have pertinent information from his first volume, which was published posthumously.
As to your question about the New England clan. "Interesting site. Are you attempting to connect the Dorset landowning Nuburghs to the New England Thomas and Richard Newberrys ?"
Yes. I have been working on this family for well over 15 years. As it turns out our dear Mr. J. Gardner Bartlett was off base by a yard in several places. Some recent historians believe that he was trying to connect up the New England clan with the Dorset family, and was being dishonest about it to please his clients in the U.S. See Douglas Richardson on Google.
However, it is my contention Bartlett was not quite thorough enough when it came to studying all the John Newburghs who lived from 1402 up through 1485, neither did he have the resources we have today. I have made some pretty amazing discoveries about it and will eventually publish my findings. However, I believe that the line from John Newburgh Esq. was inaccurately published. I will say, the Esq. had three sons by his first wife and one son by his second wife. It is the first wife's sons who are important to the New England colonials. ;D :D
I am descended from Richard Newbury of Malden, MA. We have done DNA tests but have no conclusive evidence regarding if Richard and Thomas were related.
-
Hello SallyYorks:
... As it turns out our dear Mr. J. Gardner Bartlett was off base by a yard in several places. Some recent historians believe that he was trying to connect up the New England clan with the Dorset family, and was being dishonest about it to please his clients in the U.S. ...
Yes he was accused of 'fraud'.
...However, it is my contention Bartlett was not quite thorough enough when it came to studying all the John Newburghs who lived from 1402 up through 1485, neither did he have the resources we have today. I have made some pretty amazing discoveries about it and will eventually publish my findings. However, I believe that the line from John Newburgh Esq. was inaccurately published. I will say, the Esq. had three sons by his first wife and one son by his second wife. It is the first wife's sons who are important to the New England colonials. ;D :D
I am descended from Richard Newbury of Malden, MA. We have done DNA tests but have no conclusive evidence regarding if Richard and Thomas were related.
From your website
http://www.worldwidenewburghproject.com/richard-newberry-family.html
quote
'...Still we are unsure of where he hailed from before he arrived in New England circa 1643 and is recorded as a Freeman...'
'...I. Richard Newbury and Sarah Robinson Newbury
Weymouth and Malden, MA
Children of Richard d. aft. 9 March 1685 and Sarah Robinson m. 1749
1. Tryal Newbury b. ca. 1649 d. 9 Dec. 1705 Malden, MA
2. Dorcus Newbury Burrill b. ca 1651 d. 7 April 1722, Lynn, MA
3. Mary Newbury Green b. ca. 1653
4. Joseph Newbury b. 4 Aug. 1655
5. Martha Newbury b. 6 Nov. 1657 d. May 1675
6. Benjamin Newbury b. 22 May 1660'
unquote
I take it you have discounted these?
From familysearch website
Richard Newberie
Christening Date 11 Dec 1627
Christening Date (Original) 11 DEC 1627
Christening Place HALFORD,WARWICK,ENGLAND
Father's Name Richard Newberie
[Though this is a possible death for the above, in the same county of Warks]
Richard Newberry
Event Type Burial
Event Date 24 Jan 1714
Event Place Solihull, Warwickshire, England
Can't see a potential burial for these next two in England, but at these dates it's difficult to know and I haven't looked at any potential marriages yet
Richard Knowbee
Christening Date 13 Dec 1618
Christening Date (Original) 13 DEC 1618
Christening Place SELBORNE,HAMPSHIRE,ENGLAND
Father's Name Thomae Knowbee
Richard Newbery
Christening Date 19 Jul 1629
Christening Date (Original) 19 JUL 1629
Christening Place SULHAMPSTEAD ABBOTS,BERKSHIRE,ENGLAND
Father's Name Thos. Newbery
Newberrys do seem to be quite spread out at these early dates, from Cumbria, Yorkshire, the West Country and the Midlands and also down into London.
These Newberrys are interesting, later dates than yours but transported to the colonies, probably to Virginia or Maryland but possibly ended up in NE or MA as well? Adding them for any future reference/research.
From the Old Bailey Online website
Elizabeth Newberry, Susanna Newberry, Theft > pocketpicking, Theft > receiving, 4th December 1745.
Reference Number: t17451204-5
Offences: Theft > pocketpicking; Theft > receiving
Verdicts: Guilty; Not Guilty
Punishments: Transportation
[the above are Elizabeth (accused of prostitution in evidence, quote 'a whoring', and convicted of being a pick pocket). Susanna is her mother in law. Susanna is possibly nee Roades, the wife of a James Newberry m. 1729 at Fleet Prison
Elizabeth was transported
Susanna was acquitted [interestingly a Susanna, widow, was also acquitted of 'receiving' stolen goods in 1760]
https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=t17451204-5-defend86&div=t17451204-5#highlight
Another female Newberry who was transported was Esther
Esther Newbery, Theft > grand larceny, 17th January 1750.
Reference Number: t17500117-55
Offence: Theft > grand larceny
Verdict: Guilty > theft under 1s
Punishment: Transportation
https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=t17500117-55-defend405&div=t17500117-55#highlight
There are a quite a few Newberrys (and variant) mentioned on the site and there may be have been more transported? The search dates only start at around the 1670's though, but interesting for anyone researching London 'colonials' to America.
https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/forms/formMain.jsp
-
Thank you for the additional information. I have a theory about Richard but so that we don't get off topic too far, I don't think this is where it is best placed.
There were a lot of Newberry people from other places who came to America a little later. A group from Northants has been traced by a fellow researcher. We believe that they are another line from the Earls of Warwick. We have also traced the Walter Newbury of Rhode Island back to Berks.
If you would like, I will add the information below to the WWNP web site. Just say the word. I will also credit you for finding it. ;D :D
-
You could have a 'Rogues Gallery' section. Many family history websites have one.
Just cite the Old Bailey Online for their records. They worked really hard at transcribing it all. It's a huge resource and very interesting, especially the last 'confessions' about 'wayward lives'.
Some returned from transportation, illegally, and give vivid accounts of their time in colonial America, prior to being hanged after being captured .
-
Hi SallyYork
Thanks for the additional information on Old Bailey. I had not noticed it until you brought it up. My time frame keeps me in the medieval TNA records. I have put it on my list of things to add to the web site. Thanks for the recommendation.
Newberrychaser