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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: johnbarr on Thursday 29 June 17 04:26 BST (UK)
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Patrick Manion (Mannion) and Mary Heffiran were married 23 Jul 1878 Church of the Blessed Sacrament, Christchurch. BDM 1878/2377 Mary Heffiran Patrick Mannion. We are trying to trace their origins.
I believe ITM states Mary had been living in Christchurch for 3 years, so possibly arrived in NZ about 1874/5. Patrick was a new arrival in ChCh, but probably arrived in NZ abt 1874 - (see note below).
It's possible they both traveled to NZ on the same ship. Any suggestions for finding their arrival welcome.
Patrick and Mary lived in Ashburton area. ER's for 1896 and 1900 show Patrick as labourer and Mary domestic duties both at Methven. The same ERs show a Patrick and Bridget Manion farming at Weedons, so earlier ER listings for Patrick Manion in that area could be either one?
Mary died 30 Jul 1918 and is buried at Methven. BDM shows age as 70 so b. abt. 1848.
Patrick died 20 Jul 1929 and is buried at Ashburton. BDM shows age as 71 so b. abt. 1858.
Patrick was admitted to Tuarangi Old Men's Home 5 Nov 1925. His admission details show d.o.b. 1857 and arrived in NZ 1874.
I've no experience of research in Ireland, so I'm starting with a request for help in tracking origins of both Patrick and Mary here before trying the Irish Board.
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The probate of Mary MANION of Methven is here:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-898W-DC9B?i=106&cc=1865481
It contains information about her place of birth, in Ireland.
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The Mary MANION above, who died on 30th July 1918, was a widow.
The son she left a bequest to, Patrick Lawrence MANION, was born in Ireland in 1889
http://ndhadeliver.natlib.govt.nz/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE18377625
Attestation form, page 13.
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Quote:
"The Mary MANION above, who died on 30th July 1918, was a widow".
Deceased person's estate:
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/EP19100902.2.110?query=patrick%20manion
1909/5561 Manion Patrick 67Y
Could this be the Patrick Manion you are looking for?
Minniehaha.
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Another son of Patrick and Mary MANION, Timothy, served in WW1. In his attestation form, he states he was born in Christchurch, on 24th November 1887.
http://ndhadeliver.natlib.govt.nz/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE20681302
This makes him older than Patrick, who claimed he was born in Ireland.
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Minniehaha - the probate of Patrick MANION, who died in 1909 is here.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9CX-S8C9?i=93&cc=1865481
His wife was Bridget.
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Further to reply #3.......
Maybe not the correct Patrick. Wife is Bridget....
https://familysearch.org/search/collection/results?count=20&query=%2Bgivenname%3Apatrick~%20%2Bsurname%3Amanion~%20%2Bother_year%3A1909-1910~&collection_id=1865481
Minniehaha.
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Snap Johnf04 ;D
Minniehaha.
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Thanks for the Probate, Johnf04.
I'm pretty confident her son Patrick is the Patrick Manion b. 10 Aug 1888 in Canterbury and brother to Maria Manion also mentioned who was b. Jul 1892 at Rakaia.
Not sure where you got the 'born in Ireland' reference.
I'm unable to view the link you supplied in second reply.
The fact she was a widow is definitely a help and means we need to go back and check the death of her husband we had in 1929. ::)
Always confusing when there's two people of same name and about same age living in same area !!
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Children:
1892/11390 Manion Maria Jane Mary Patrick -
1888/18994 Manion Patrick Mary Patrick -
1879/5167 Manion Julia Mary Patrick -
1887/17817 Manion Timothy Mary Patrick
1884/12233 Manion Sarah Mary Patrick
Minniehaha.
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I think the "Ireland" reference on Patrick's attestation is an error by whoever filled out the form.
Could Bridget and Mary be the same person?
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Thanks Minniehaha, yes, that's the family.
The Patric k who farmed at Weedons and was married to Bridget is not ours.
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No , Patrick and Bridget had different children.
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Quote from reply #8......
"Not sure where you got the 'born in Ireland' reference".
Patrick Lawrence Manion attested that he was born on 10.8.1889 @ Styx, Ireland.
[From reply #2]
Minniehaha.
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The Mary Manion who died 1918, a widow, is definitely ours, as she mentions two correct children in her Will.
That completely throws out all of the details we had of her husband Patrick from 1918 to 1929. :o
On her children's birth certs she mentions her birth was in Clydagh, and Headford, Galway which is on the opposite side of Ireland to the Wicklow mentioned in Probate. But we cannot be sure how confident/accurate the Wicklow information was, as probably after her death?
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Quote from reply #8......
"Not sure where you got the 'born in Ireland' reference".
Patrick Lawrence Manion attested that he was born on 10.8.1889 @ Styx, Ireland.
[From reply #2]
Minniehaha.
BDM have his birth 10.08.1888 in New Zealand
1888/18994 Manion Patrick Mary Patrick
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I've checked the births for "Pat" and "Patrick" MANION and MANNION in Ireland for 1889 and 1890 - the registers are online - and none are for the Patrick in the attestation.
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Thanks Johnf04.
I've found the Manions on 1914 ER for Selwyn.
Patrick farm labourer, Mary married and Maria spinster.
So Patrick alive then.
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The death notice for Mary, in The Press, 1st August 1918, says wife of Patrick
Manion.
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/CHP19180801.2.2.4?query=Manion
I think your original pick for Mary's husband is correct - something must have gone wrong between them. I noticed a report about a Patrick MANION being fined for drunkenness.
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https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/CHP19180801.2.2.4?query=widow manion
The little death notice for Mary in 1918 describes her as..... WIFE of Patrick.......
In my experience the terms used when a widow dies are usually
.... wife of the late.......
OR
....... widow of the late.....
OR
.......Relict of ......
Just an observation.
Sue
ADDING
Sorry for the double up there ;D
Another thought
She would not be the first estranged wife to call herself widow ;)
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There is also this report of a court case from 1924, from Ashburton:
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/CHP19240405.2.21?query=Patrick%20Manion
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A query
Does the word free here mean it was a public grave?
In other words provided by the state?
Burial Record
Surname- Manion
First Name(s)- Patrick
Age (years)- 71
Age (months)- 0
Denomination- Roman Catholic
Occupation - Labourer
Date of Death- 20/07/1929
Additional Plot Information- CATHOLIC FREE
Cemetery- Ashburton
Area- 132
Plot Number- 18
Interment Date- 23/07/1929
Purchaser Free
Depth Single Depth
Celebrant Rev Dean O'Donnell
Sue
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There is also this report of a court case from 1924, from Ashburton:
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/CHP19240405.2.21?query=Patrick%20Manion
This may be the son mentioned
1887/17817 Manion Timothy to Mary and Patrick
Cheers Janette
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A maybe for Patrick's arrival in NZ
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-68LW-GMJ?i=16&cc=1609792
Cheers Janette
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A maybe for Patrick's arrival in NZ
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-68LW-GMJ?i=16&cc=1609792
Cheers Janette
Yes,
Could well be ;D
That passenger does not fit for the other Patrick MANION (Bridget's husband)
Here is the obituary for Bridget's husband.
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/CHP19090921.2.28?query=widow manion
Sue
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I note the passenger was born Middlesex.
As there are at least three possibilities for the birthdate of Patrick suggested on this thread, I will offer this-
There is a 5 year old child on the 1861 England census enumerated as Patrick MINNION.
1861 shows born in England
His parents Michael, a carpenter, and Mary, both born in Ireland.
No others.
The 1871 England Census shows the surname as MANNION
Patrick is 14 and born in Middlesex.
Siblings are listed as.
John 10
James7
Michael 4
Sue
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Thanks to everybody for all your help and suggestions so far.
The Middlesex birth could be this one.
MANNION, PATRICK (Mother's Maiden name) = RINE
GRO Reference: 1855 M Quarter in NORTHWICH Volume 08A Page 235
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There is also this report of a court case from 1924, from Ashburton:
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/CHP19240405.2.21?query=Patrick%20Manion
ER's show the two brothers Patrick Lawrence and Timothy were living in Masterton 1919, and Timothy still there in 1925 so almost certainly the 'defendant' in the application for maintenance from his father who was still living near Ashburton - where the case was heard.
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A query
Does the word free here mean it was a public grave?
In other words provided by the state?
Sue
Good point Sue, I've written to Ashburton Council asking for further details.
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The probate of Mary MANION of Methven is here:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-898W-DC9B?i=106&cc=1865481
It contains information about her place of birth, in Ireland.
The Michael Nicholas Carney who witnessed Mary's Will in 1918 married her daughter Sarah in 1905, so was her son-in-law with five children (Mary's grandchildren) by that time.
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Another ?? researcher here >>
http://searches2.rootsweb.com/th/read/IRL-GALWAY/2000-07/0963008075
~ Lu
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Yes Lu, same family still trying to break down their brick wall
:)
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The thread Lu found has some more details.
"On Patrick's d.c. it states his parents as Thomas & Julia"
"On my gr.mothers (Julia) b.c. father Patrick MANION gave his birth place as Clydagh, Galway and also the next birth of Mary Ann as Clydagh but all the rest of the 5 children as Headford"
Clydagh and Headford are both close to Galway.
That would seem to rule out the Middlesex suggestion.
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Very prompt reply from Ashburton Council re Sue's enquiry on meaning of "Free" on burial details.
They say:
<<As far as I can tell the plots in the catholic free section of the Ashburton Cemetery were purchased by the Church as a place to inter those who couldn’t afford funeral costs.
This does not necessarily mean that Patrick had no support from his family, It might just mean that the family was unable to purchase a plot and headstone.>>
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Very prompt reply from Ashburton Council re Sue's enquiry on meaning of "Free" on burial details.
They say:
<<As far as I can tell the plots in the catholic free section of the Ashburton Cemetery were purchased by the Church as a place to inter those who couldn’t afford funeral costs.
This does not necessarily mean that Patrick had no support from his family, It might just mean that the family was unable to purchase a plot and headstone.>>
That would fit in with the son,Timothy,being asked to support his father,
Cheers Janette
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There are records available for Galway, although they are patchy. We have the baptism (from Ancestry) of my wife's 3rd great uncle, Thomas CAVANAGH, in 1837, but can find no trace of her 2nd great grandfather Bartholomew, Thomas's brother, born 1839.
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Thanks for the suggestion Johnf04.
I've found one possibility, baptism of "Patt Manion" 7 Oct 1855 in Boyounagh, Galway, Ireland with parents Thos Manion and Celia Kekerry.
Apparently Celia can be a form of Julia?
The date fits too, but Boyounagh is about 45kms from Headford and 65kms from Clydagh - which would have been quite a distance in 1850's.
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What is Patrick's age on the copy of the marriage certificate which you have?
Sue
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What is Patrick's age on the copy of the marriage certificate which you have?
Sue
I cannot get access to that at the moment, Sue. Maybe in next day or two.
Thanks
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If you search on Archway for "MANION", the last item is "Sunnyside Hospital patient files". There is a file there for Patrick MANION, dated 23 July 1910. This file can be viewed at the Archives in Christchurch. If this is your Patrick, there could be useful information in the file. The Thomas Cavanagh I mentioned upthread was in Seacliff hospital from 1902 until his death in 1907. His 40 page file at the Archives in Dunedin has a wealth of fascinating information, including a transcript of his baptism (proof of age for pension purposes).
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That's an interesting suggestion, Johnf04.
It's after the death of the other Patrick Manion in 1909, and 'our' Patrick is shown in Wise´s New Zealand Post Office Directory 1910 at Methven, and on ER 1911 at North Loburn, so certainly in the area and possibly having problems with alcohol.
The person I'm trying to help with this enquiry is away at present. I'll discuss getting access to the document with her when she returns.
Thanks
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Another ?? researcher here >>
http://searches2.rootsweb.com/th/read/IRL-GALWAY/2000-07/0963008075
~ Lu
The thread Lu found has some more details.
"On Patrick's d.c. it states his parents as Thomas & Julia"
"On my gr.mothers (Julia) b.c. father Patrick MANION gave his birth place as Clydagh, Galway and also the next birth of Mary Ann as Clydagh but all the rest of the 5 children as Headford"
Clydagh and Headford are both close to Galway.
That would seem to rule out the Middlesex suggestion.
I cannot open that link.
So the author of the site says her grandmother was Julia MANION and on the birth certificate of that Julia it is stated her father, Patrick, was born in Clydagh? Correct?
Is the certificate, or any others, attached to the "tree " for viewing?
Sue
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I cannot open that link.
So the author of the site says her grandmother was Julia MANION and on the birth certificate of that Julia it is stated her father, Patrick, was born in Clydagh? Correct?
Is the certificate, or any others, attached to the "tree " for viewing?
Sue
Hi Sue, sorry for delay - I've been away!
Not sure why you're having problems with the link - it's working OK for me.
Re site author - yes, you are correct.
I'm still unable to contact site author for details from certs. and 'No' unfortunately, none have been uploaded to any tree I have access to.
Thanks.
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Thanks John.
I think it was just a "bad moment"
Link is fine now. ;D
Sue
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My friend advises the ages of both bride and groom on their Marriage Cert were shown as 25.
She hopes to visit Christchurch in next few weeks and will try to access the Sunnyside Hospital patient file suggested by Johnf04.
Thanks.