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Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: rob g on Thursday 29 June 17 15:43 BST (UK)
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Hi. I have covered most of my family tree. But as ever some loose ends. my ancestor Peter Mitchell. B. Bolton 1831..wed mary Louther/lowther. Spellings alter. Born Yorkshire. 1833/4. she married him at st. Mary's church bury. 1852. On cert. her father. There Present. Was Robert Louther. Earthenware dealer. She was baptized along side her sister ann. in st Mary's bury In 1835/6. After she was married. To Peter Mitchell. she called a daughter called Rebecca. It's a name that we dont find in the family much. Looking for Robert Louthers marriage. The only marriage I have came across with his name Robert lowther. Around 1830s. was to a Rebecca young. it was at heversham. St Peter's church. 1828. The date would fit. And account for the daughter being called Rebecca. There's lots of travellers called lowther in ulveston. And The surnames are both travellers names. But I can't find any occupations or census data. or further info. Any help would be appreciated. Regards rob
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Earthenware Dealer=what they called Potters?
Skoosh.
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There is a baptism for a Mary at Bury 11 December 1835 (born 21 Feb) - parents Robert & Rebecca - Roberts occupation Hawker
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There is another Baptism for a Mary Lowther at Bury, giving the parents abode ..... FreeReg
Bury, Lanchashire, St Mary the Virgin
Baptism date 21 Feb 1836
Birth date 23 Nov 1833
Name Mary
Abode Hadderton near Leeds Yorkshire
Father Robert LOWTHER
Father occupation Hawker
Mother forename Rebecca
Is Hadderton? Chadderton near Leeds? Yorkshire West Riding
Is this a 2nd Mary Lowther born to them?
https://www.freereg.org.uk/
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Free Reg offers this up for Ann Lowther:
Bury, Lancashire, St Mary the Virgin
Baptism date 21 Feb 1835
Birth date 11 Dec 1835
Name Ann
Abode Bolton
Father Robert Lowther
Father occupation Hawker
Mother Rebecca
https://www.freereg.org.uk/
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Hi
Sorry for the delay - thank you for the PM - But mary married my 4 times g father but I just can't locate her Lowther family in census data. Looked at 1841_51_61. Nothing.
Could this be another sister :-\
1 Jan 1851 St Peter, Bolton, Lancashire, England
Charles Howarth - Full age, Earthenware Dealer abode Great Bolton
Jane Lowther - Minor, Spinster, abode Little Bolton
Groom's Father John Howarth, Earthenware Dealer
Bride's Father Robert Lowther, Earthenware Dealer
and sister Ann
26 Feb 1856 St Mary the Virgin, Bury
Swales Young - age 22, occ Iron Dealer, Bachelor, abode Burnley
Ann Lowther - age 22, Spinster, abode Bury
Groom's Father John Young, Iron Dealer
Bride's Father Robert Lowther, Glass & China Dealer
Swales & Ann are in Burnley 1871 - RG10/4146 f100 p22 and Berwick in Tweed in 1881. ;D
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Baptism for Jane :-\
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JSHJ-N9C
Jane Lowther
Christening 14 Mar 1832
Parochial Chapelry, Barnard-Castle, Durham
Father Robert Lowther
Mother Rebecca
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There is something in the British Newspaper archives about Mr Robert Lowther, Earthenware Dealer.
Mr. Robert Lowther, earthenware dealer
Published: Saturday 28 August 1869
Newspaper: Kendal Mercury
County: Cumbria, England
Type: FamilyNotice
http://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk
Keywords: Robert Lowther, Earthenware Dealer
If Rob signs up to the British newspaper archive he can get 3 free pages
Wondering what the event was in 1869, a death perhaps? Did he die in Hanniston near Hawkshead, Cumbria?
Is Robert Lowther earthenware dealer still alive in 1871 census?
This could be his death registration in 1869? Freebdm
Deaths Sep 1869
Lowther Robert 61 Ulverstone 8e 443
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Here is a Rebecca Lowther (widow, nee young) marriage
Marriage: 17 Jul 1837 St Nicholas, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
William Veary Earthenware dealer (a minor)
Rebecca Lowther Earthenware dealer, (a Widow)
Groom's Father: William Veary, Earthenware dealer
Bride's Father: James Young, Earthenware dealer
A William Varey was a witness at Jane Lowthers marriage to Charles Howarth in 1851
If this is Rebbeca Young who married Robert Lowther in 1828, was that Robert Lowther deceased after Ann's baptism 1835 but before 1837?
There must be a reason why the Lowthers don't appear in a census
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Further to whiteouts post
Kendal Mercury 28 August 1869 - Robert Lowther, Earthenware dealer died at Hannakin nr Hawkshead on 17th inst. age 61
Death Sep qtr 1869
Lowther Robert age 61
Ulverstone reg dist 8e 443
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Interesting so the Hanniston near Hawkshead Robert Lowther would have been born in 1808, which if he was married to Rebecca in 1828 would have made him about 20 years old.
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Thank you all for. Your help I'm trying to flesh out all info. Rosie99.it might be the Robert Lowther I am looking for. Will.try to find.more. whiteout7 as to the marriage of Rebecca Lowther 1837. Dont think its related. Because Robert Lowther was a witness at his daughter Mary's wedding. St Mary's church bury 1852. And divorce was very rare. Unless its bigamy.? I can tell you that mary Lowther. B. 1833. Wife to Peter Mitchell. B. 1831. Is wed under aher husbands assumed surname. He Was in fact a dale. I have his baptism cert. His father was William dale. Olso. His legal uncle in law. ? So maybe.it was Rebecca Lowther. Robert Lowthers wife. Wed in 1837'. It gets deeper..I will chase the newspaper link. Its odd I can't find him in censuses ?. Anyway. thank you all for your help. If you come across anything I would love to hear it. Regards rob
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Hi. Again..whiteout7.. it fits info I have on Robert Lowther. And right areas. Just fitting it together. The census returns so be such a help. Travellers do miss censuses. But three? Anyway thanks. Again rosie99..
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Dont think its related. Because Robert Lowther was a witness at his daughter Mary's wedding. St Mary's church bury 1852. And divorce was very rare. Unless its bigamy.?
I can tell you that mary Lowther. B. 1833. Wife to Peter Mitchell. B. 1831. Is wed under aher husbands assumed surname. He Was in fact a dale.
Just clarifying, it was Peter Mitchell (Dale) who married under the assumed name of Mitchell, Mary married as Louther
The marriage is on lancsopc Robert is not mentioned as a witness
4 Feb 1852 St Mary the Virgin, Bury, Lancashire, England
Peter Mitchell occ Earthenware Dealer, Bachelor, abode Bury
Mary Souther (sic) Spinster, Bolton Le Moors GRO index has Louther
Groom's Father William Dale, Earthenware Dealer
Bride's Father Robert Souther, (sic) Earthenware Dealer
Witness: Catharine Mitchell; Ra. Crompton
Married by Licence by: Henry Ainslie Curate
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This is a strange one living Skerton, Lancaster in 1871 ::)
RG10/4230 f32 p26
Rebeca Varey 60 born Barwick... ?? occ Hawker
John Lawther Son-In-Law 22 bn Ulverstone occ General Dealer
Margaret Lawther Daughter 22 bn Althaw ? Moor
Robert Lawther Son-In-Law's brother 11 bn Ulverstone
.......
Rebecca/William Veary living Gt Bolton in 1851
William Varey 33 Hawker Carpets bn Not known
Rebeccah Varey 35 bn Not Known
Rebeccah 12 bn St Helens, Lancashire
Grace 8 bn Gt Bolton
Margaret 2 bn Halshaw Moor
HO107/2211 f24 p40
ADDED probable death
Deaths Mar 1880
VAREY Rebecca 68 Lancaster 8e 484
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Yes that's my Peter Mitchell / Dale. I olso have William dales will. It states that Peter Mitchell.b.1831 and Peter's sister Catharine. B.1833. Are his children. And he leaves everything to them. He was wed to. Catharine Rothwell. Sister to my 5 times grandmother. Phobe Rothwell. They were in-laws. Catharine died. Phobe moved in. But couldn't marry. As phobe was still wed to Jesse Mitchell. He died 1847. Phobe then wed William dale.1848. It was illegal. classified as incest. Brother in law. Sister in law.in 1841 census Bolton. She's down as mrs dale. Along with Peter and Catharine. They were dale in 1851 census.. only became Mitchell on his wedding.. complicated. So anything could happen? I find this interesting. Was Robert Lowther in prison.? ..Just saw your post Rosie it gets ever more mysterious. Heads in a spin.lol
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Just noting that you already have a post on the Dale family in case we are tempted to look at that line ;D
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=760306.msg6112115#msg6112115
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Hi. To be honest I have been tracing my Mitchell line. For years. In fact to 1700s Staffordshire.it seems I wasted those years. I have the.right family till Peter Mitchell. 1831 who after years of searches I found to be.a dale. Tried to find more about the dales but stone wall at John dale.1800s. He was Peter Mitchell/Dales grandfather. So thought I'd try researching Robert Lowther my 5 times grandfather. He Was a bit of a mystery. now with the help I have had its getting more so. But fascinating. And really do appreciate it.
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This is just a thought. As transportation didn't end till 1868. Could Robert Lowther. Have been transported. Prior to 1937. And that's why I can't find him. On censuses? And the reason why Rebecca Lowther .wed another. She said she was.a.widow. because she thought Robert Lowther would not return? Fanciful I know.
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Just confirming that I had the right Rebecca in 1851
- daughters birth reg
VERAH, REBECCA mmn YOUNG
1838 Dec Quarter
PRESCOT reg dist Volume 20 Page 621
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Perhaps the reason you can't find Robert on census is that he had died before 1841 :-\
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I think Robert Lowther that was married to Rebecca Young in 1828 just died between 1835 and 1837.
His name at his daughter's marriages in a register is not proof that Robert Lowther was alive. (free bmd can not show his death if he died like I think before civil registration in 1 July 1837)
I think the Rebecca Lowther (nee Young) a widow was infact a widow and legally able to wed again to William Varey. She is quite clear about her identity not hiding the fact she is a Lowther widow.
She would have married very quickly after her husbands death to with children to provide for.
There are many Robert Lowther convicts but there is nothing in the newspapers showing they are your Robert Lowther.
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This is a strange one living Skerton, Lancaster in 1871 ::)
RG10/4230 f32 p26
Rebeca Varey 60 born Barwick... ?? occ Hawker
John Lawther Son-In-Law 22 bn Ulverstone occ General Dealer
Margaret Lawther Daughter 22 bn Althaw ? Moor
Robert Lawther Son-In-Law's brother 11 bn Ulverstone
.......
Rebecca/William Veary living Gt Bolton in 1851
William Varey 33 Hawker Carpets bn Not known
Rebeccah Varey 35 bn Not Known
Rebeccah 12 bn St Helens, Lancashire
Grace 8 bn Gt Bolton
Margaret 2 bn Halshaw Moor
HO107/2211 f24 p40
ADDED probable death
Deaths Mar 1880
VAREY Rebecca 68 Lancaster 8e 484
Lancashire OPC
Baptism: 27 Oct 1844 St Paul, Blackburn, Lancashire, England
Grace Varay - [Child] of William Varay & Rebecca
Born: 15 Oct 1844
Abode: Blackburn
Occupation: Potter
Baptised by: A. G. Edouart
Baptism: 11 Feb 1849 St Paul, Blackburn, Lancashire, England
Margaret Varah - [Child] of William Varah & Rebecca
Born: 12 Jan 1849
Abode: Blackburn
Occupation: Earthen Ware Dealer
Baptised by: Thomas Sutcliffe Curate
Margaret Veary possibly married John Lowther - it is not like they are blood relatives, only marriage relatives and it would be in keeping with a gypsy tradition. This is how Margaret Lowther (nee Veary) could be a daughter on the 1871 census
----> IGI familysearch
Margaret Varey
England Marriages, 1538–1973
marriage: 20 October 1866 Parish Church Of Ulverston, Lancashire, England
father: William Varey
spouse: John Lowther
other: Charles Lowther
*Charles Lowther is John Lowthers father.
IGI
John Lowther
birth: 20 January 1848
christening: 27 January 1848 Ulverston, Lancashire, England
residence: 1848 Ulverston, Lancashire, England
father: Charles Lowther
mother: Ann Lowther
and his little brother
Robert Lowther
birth: 26 Mar (1859 ?)
christening: 17 April 1859 Ulverston, Lancashire, England
residence: Ulverston, Lancashire, England
father: Charles Lowther
mother: Ann Lowther
So the 1871 census makes sense to me Rosie :)
Also Mary, Ann, Jane ? in 1851 could all be with Lowther relatives in the census somewhere else
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A possible John Lowther death from IGI
1/Robert Lowther
birth: 1804
burial: 7 January 1837 Farnworth & Kearsley, Lancaster, England
Lanc opc
Burial: 7 Jan 1837 St John the Evangelist, Farnworth with Kearsley, Lancashire, England
Robert Lowther -
Age: 33
Abode: Farnworth
Buried by: Wm Burns
Farnworth is not all that far from Bolton.
There is another one that died in 1837 in the IGI that died in Ulverston, Lancashire that is not on Lanc opc
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Another thing:
Rebecca Young
marriage: 1828 , Heversham, Westmorland, England
spouse: Robert Lowther
Martha Young <------Possible sister of Rebecca Veary (Widow Lowther nee Young)
marriage: 1832 , Heversham, Westmorland, England
spouse: Thomas Vara (Probably Thomas Veary)
Strong family links I think
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Hello all. I after looking at the data given and found I think whiteout7 is probably right. And that Rosie99 is also correct. As you know transcripts offer many slightly different info details. But the basic names. Dates etc are too close for them not to be the Robert and Rebecca Lowther I was seeking. I'll try finding out more. But am fairly certain that the information leads to the same persons. And conclusions. Thank you both whiteout7..and Rosie99. for your time and efforts. And to anyone who has taken time to view the posts. Once again this site has been invaluable. Regards to all rob.
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This is my lot. The Lowthers married my Wilsons
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And these lot...
residence: Ulverston, Lancashire, England
father: Charles Lowther
mother: Ann Lowther
Are on my tree, though not directs - I am descended from Henry & Johannah in Wigton (parents of Charles above) so if you link to them at all, holler. I have some great wills from my directs and a fair bit of piecing together of the Lowther tree. They aren't easy as they plied their trade from East to West across Cumberland and Yorkshire.