RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Berkshire => Topic started by: jillruss on Friday 07 July 17 16:05 BST (UK)
-
Just wanted to remind or inform Rcers that, like Wiltshire Council's own wills website, the Wiltshire Wills Index added to FindMyPast today, includes quite a few Berkshire parishes which for some reason fell under that diocese at the time.
Places like Bray, Hurst, Hurley, Waltham St Lawrence and more. Probably best to search by place.
-
The index is freely available without having to go to F M P.
https://history.wiltshire.gov.uk/heritage/
I've downloaded a few wills (mainly Wantage) from the Wiltshire Wills site, but it's currently unavailable. I wish they would get it back up and running, it was very useful.
As of August 2015 the Wiltshire Wills website is not available while we pursue a replacement web front end. We apologize for the inconvenience this may cause. The index is still available, and if you then need a copy of a will please e-mail archives@wiltshire.gov.uk and a copy can be sent to you.
-
The remaining Wills are apparently being digitised by Ancestry and due for release on the site later this year. It is apparently part of the agreement to digitise the parish registers which have already been released.
-
What do you mean by "the remaining wills", Smudwhisk? I suppose the Berks Archivist can't stop Wiltshire Council making the wills available from those Berkshire parishes which fell into the Wiltshire purview? Though, knowing what his stance is on releasing Berks parish registers, I bet he'll give it a whirl!!!!
-
The remaining wills means those that haven't already been digitised by WSHC. They are then all due on Ancestry.
The wills for Berkshire residents proven at Sarum should be included because the Sarum diocese records office hold them (ie WSHC) and not Berkshire so no the unreasonable Berkshire archivist is unlikely to have any say in the matter as he is the Berkshire Diocese archivist only. The same applied to Warwickshire wills held at Lichfield appearing on FindMyPast with the Staffordshire parish registers while Warwickshire PRs are on Ancestry.
-
The wills for Berkshire residents proven at Sarum should be included because the Sarum diocese records office hold them (ie WSHC) and not Berkshire so no the unreasonable Berkshire archivist is unlikely to have any say in the matter as he is the Berkshire Diocese archivist only.
1. There is no Berkshire Diocese - the Berkshire Record Office is the archive for the Archdeaconry of Berkshire.
2. The 'unreasonable Berkshire archivist' is a pretty reasonable chap (and, coincidently, not the same chap who was the subject of much ire a few years back). I am sure Berks PRs will appear online just as soon as someone comes up with the cash to digitise them - so far it seems that Ancestry and FindMyPast have shown no interest (small county, small returns). Meanwhile FindMyPast have increasing numbers of BFHS transcribed records and FamilySearch has had most of the pre-1837 registers indexed for decades.
'Berkshire' wills are held by the WSRO because a sizeable chunk of Wiltshire Archdeaconry around Hurst was transfered to Berkshire in 1840ish - prior to which the residents were, of course, Wiltshire residents and hence had their wills go through probate in the Wiltshire Archdeaconry court. Strictly speaking these are not Berkshire wills at all.
They joined most of the pre-existing Berkshire in moving to the newly created Diocese of Oxford. Prior to this the Bishops court of Sarum (Salisbury) had jurisdiction over probate above that of the Archdeaconry - so some wills from all over Berkshire would go through that court. Similarly the Diocesan court in Oxford would have granted probate on some Berkshire wills for a few years (until probate was transferred to the civil courts in the late 1850s). Above the diocesan courts was the Archbishop of Canterbury's court - hence the numerous Berkshire wills proven there.
-
The 'unreasonable Berkshire archivist' is a pretty reasonable chap (and, coincidently, not the same chap who was the subject of much ire a few years back).
On the thread about Berks PRs possibly becoming available on FindMyPast (they are heralding some additional Berks PRs some time this summer), I was led to believe that the current archivist is as adamant as was the former holder of that post that Berks PRs would not be appearing online in a digitised form any time soon. If I have maligned the chap, I willingly apologise.
I am sure Berks PRs will appear online just as soon as someone comes up with the cash to digitise them - so far it seems that Ancestry and FindMyPast have shown no interest (small county, small returns). Meanwhile FindMyPast have increasing numbers of BFHS transcribed records and FamilySearch has had most of the pre-1837 registers indexed for decades.
This is my opinion as well - that they are awaiting a good offer. I know there are a lot of transcribed Berks PRs on FindMyPast but the digitised images are so much better and there are also quite a few still missing from Family Search and FindMyPast.
-
'Berkshire' wills are held by the WSRO because a sizeable chunk of Wiltshire Archdeaconry around Hurst was transfered to Berkshire in 1840ish - prior to which the residents were, of course, Wiltshire residents and hence had their wills go through probate in the Wiltshire Archdeaconry court. Strictly speaking these are not Berkshire wills at all.
My understanding is that Sarum was a higher court than the Archdeaconry of Berkshire and depending on the value and location of the estate, it would have had to be proven at Sarum. The court above Sarum being the Prerogative Court of Canterbury. This would explain why some Shrivenham residents' wills were proven at Sarum and some in the Berkshire Court. You see it amongst a lot of counties in the country, where the consistory courts which were higher than archdeaconry courts were located in one county but covered residents from other counties.
As for the current Berkshire incumbent, well I've been told by some people very active in the genealogy "world" in the area that he does hold the same attitude as his predecessor regarding digitisation, or at least did the other year (and there hasn't been a change of archivist since that time). If he has softened his attitude which eventually may lead to the records being digitised, then good but I shall believe it when I see it.
This is my opinion as well - that they are awaiting a good offer. I know there are a lot of transcribed Berks PRs on FindMyPast but the digitised images are so much better and there are also quite a few still missing from Family Search and FindMyPast.[/color][/color]
I think you'll find that they need to approach the companies, the companies don't approach them. That is my understanding from what I've read. If the Berkshire Archivist is waiting for such a good offer, he may be waiting for a while. That said, the approach to digitisation between Ancestry and Findmypast is different, Ancestry apparently hire temporary staff to digitise the records at the records offices and FindMyPast expect the records offices to digitise them themselves using volunteers usually. I suspect the difference also comes down to how much money they earn from the records being viewed on the different sites depending on the company's initial outlay. While there are of course other companies that do host the records, their subscriber base is much smaller and they won't make as much money from the arrangement. In the case of Familysearch of course, they only provide free access anyway albeit usually at their centres.
-
My understanding is that Sarum was a higher court than the Archdeaconry of Berkshire and depending on the value and location of the estate, it would have had to be proven at Sarum. The court above Sarum being the Prerogative Court of Canterbury. This would explain why some Shrivenham residents' wills were proven at Sarum and some in the Berkshire Court. You see it amongst a lot of counties in the country, where the consistory courts which were higher than archdeaconry courts were located in one county but covered residents from other counties.
Yes - but most of the 'Berkshire' wills at the WSRO are Wiltshire Archdeaconry wills from the Hurst area. I think the Bishop's court also stepped in and took over all archdeaconry probate every few years - as a fund raising exercise. There was also a snob value in using a higher court - which is why so many went to the PCC (Salisbury was not prestigious enough) - though it was also easier to get to London.
As for the current Berkshire incumbent, well I've been told by some people very active in the genealogy "world" in the area that he does hold the same attitude as his predecessor regarding digitisation, or at least did the other year (and there hasn't been a change of archivist since that time). If he has softened his attitude which eventually may lead to the records being digitised, then good but I shall believe it when I see it.
I'm pretty sure that he would listen to any proposal and be open to the PRs being digitised, providing he doesn't have to staff it and the diocese is happy about it. His attitude is that he doesn't expect this to happen any time soon.
This is my opinion as well - that they are awaiting a good offer. I know there are a lot of transcribed Berks PRs on FindMyPast but the digitised images are so much better and there are also quite a few still missing from Family Search and FindMyPast.[/color][/color]
The original is always the best, if not always the most readable. There are quite a few missing from the BRO too - there will never be 100% coverage.
I think you'll find that they need to approach the companies, the companies don't approach them. That is my understanding from what I've read. If the Berkshire Archivist is waiting for such a good offer, he may be waiting for a while. That said, the approach to digitisation between Ancestry and Findmypast is different, Ancestry apparently hire temporary staff to digitise the records at the records offices and FindMyPast expect the records offices to digitise them themselves using volunteers usually. I suspect the difference also comes down to how much money they earn from the records being viewed on the different sites depending on the company's initial outlay. While there are of course other companies that do host the records, their subscriber base is much smaller and they won't make as much money from the arrangement. In the case of Familysearch of course, they only provide free access anyway albeit usually at their centres.
There is no way the archivist is going to go out of his way to get the records online - he is too busy coping with cuts on cuts, laying off staff, and still trying to get the day job done. Given the relatively small number of records involved it is unlikely that the BRO would benefit financially in any significant manner. I suspect it will be many years before archive funding rises back to the levels where they can think of doing the nice as well as the essential.
If I ever win the lottery I'll have a word with him!
-
Interesting comments, Smudwhisk and Newburychap (though I would point out that Newbury's second quote attributed to me was infact Smudwhisk's).
I appreciate that the Archivist has to carry on with the 'day job' in the face of central government cuts to local government funding. Been there, done that. Wouldn't that be a positive reason to consider being paid by FindMyPast or Ancestry to allow the records to be digitised? I must admit, though, that I had no idea that FindMyPast expected the records to be digitised by the archives staff or volunteers. I presume that would mean they would pay more for the privilege, or am I being naive?
I think I'm right that Berks FHS have only recently updated their burials CD - not their baptisms or marriages, all of which I believe are already available in transcription form on FindMyPast. So, I wonder what FindMyPast will be presenting to us this summer, if not any digitised PRs?
The fact that Berkshire is a small county shouldn't matter but I suppose money talks, as ever. Just a shame for all of us with main branches in the county but living nowhere near.
-
There is no way the archivist is going to go out of his way to get the records online - he is too busy coping with cuts on cuts, laying off staff, and still trying to get the day job done.
Quite possibly but from what I've seen the Records Offices/Archives have issued "tenders" for the digitisation to attract interest, something that with public sector rules would need to be done, or made approaches themselves. If he is indeed waiting for someone to approach them, than we will most likely be waiting a long time if ever. In any case, it wouldn't be the Archivist that would do this, but more likely someone else with the council responsible for this however I would imagine it would need to be started internally by the Archivist.
I think I'm right that Berks FHS have only recently updated their burials CD - not their baptisms or marriages, all of which I believe are already available in transcription form on FindMyPast. So, I wonder what FindMyPast will be presenting to us this summer, if not any digitised PRs?
As has been discussed on other threads on RC, I think you'll find it will be more of the same from the FHS but only time will tell.
-
Interesting comments, Smudwhisk and Newburychap (though I would point out that Newbury's second quote attributed to me was infact Smudwhisk's).
Sorry Jill & Smudwisk - I obviously messed up on the quotes!
-
small county, small returns
Not that small, since it includes the parishes that were taken away in 1974. (The grey portions of the map)
(http://www.royalsrecord.co.uk/images/berks.png)
-
http://www.wshc.eu/blog/item/wiltshire-wills.html
Update on Wiltshire & Swindon History Centre website, looks like the digitised original Wills and Admons are due on Ancestry from the middle of next month. ;D
-
Thanks for the info, smudwhisk.
I read the article but may have missed it - does this mean that Wiltshire's own website will be closed? I ask because I don't subscribe to Ancestry and don't want to lose access to the wills.
Jill
-
Don't know, you can't order off Wiltshire's website anyway, has been down for several years. You'd need to ask them the question whether they're removing the index or not.
-
I read the article but may have missed it - does this mean that Wiltshire's own website will be closed? I ask because I don't subscribe to Ancestry and don't want to lose access to the wills.
For info the Wiltshire Wills Index on the WSHC website appears to have been removed sometime over the last few days, it was definitely on there last week as I used it. They've updated the page regarding Wills to say this was to happen Spring 2018 but as it isn't exactly Spring yet, they've obviously decided to remove it now which is a shame as there are some issues with Ancestry's indexing and now can't check how many pages there should be for any Wills or Admons (where they have been previously digitised by the HC). I can appreciate why its been removed but seems a little premature in light of issues. :-\