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Research in Other Countries => Immigrants & Emigrants - General => Topic started by: brigidmac on Sunday 09 July 17 13:38 BST (UK)
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hi I'm trying to find maiden name for Fannie Scwartz
Where's best place to look
She was born in Russia around 1870
According to 1920 census she was born Russia .can't read or write . immigration year given as 1892
Stated that parents born Russia
Married to Aaron Swartz he was b 1865 Roumania. And Died 28 Nov 1924
Their children all born New York or Pennsylvania
Approx birth years from censuses Esther 1892 Gerson/ Saul 1894 Sadie 1895 Solomon 1894 Abraham 1904
Rusians to America record has Fany Scwartz age 20 aug 1891 on SS Anchoria
from Glasgow
She is with a lot of other young Russian born people but not her husband
Or could this be a different Lady?
I can't find her death
And don't know where the couple met or married
If Esther is her birth daughter they would have had to marry before 1892
Aarons parents were called Joseph scwartz and Esther halpert
Fresh pair of eyes would be useful
Moderator edit: surname corrected in subject line at OP's request.
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Just because fanny sailed from Glasgow doesn't mean she'd lived in Scotland the years preceding
But i.m not finding an English marriage for this couple
And they don't seem to have married in England
Back to drawing board .
A tree on ancestry has Aarons born Rumania 1870 but sibling Morris as being born Russia 1896
Then Nellie born Russia 1901
And Nita born USA 1909
But is that accurate ?
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Where is Fannie in 1920? where were the children born? have you found the family in other census records?
Sometimes it can be difficult to find people on those early manifests. Fannie might have arrived in America before she married- in which case she will be listed under her maiden not married name.
Added- this looks like the family living in Brooklyn in 1905 N.Y. State census- spelt Schwartz-
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MKS2-X6R
Possibly family living in Manhattan in 1910-
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M57W-QBF
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Aga so sorry I didn't where the family were in 1920 found census and 1905 Brooklyn one on family search
If she immigrated in 1892 as per 1920 census she wouldn't have had long to get married before Esher's birth 1892 if age 13 in 1905
Fany.scwarz age 20 on SS Anchors 24 aug 1891 seems to fit well
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You said in original post that you found Fannie in 1920 census- so where was she living in 1920?
It's not uncommon for there to be errors in census details such as wrong ages, years of immigration, etc.
It's possible that Aaron was married previously and Esther might be Fannie's stepdaughter or Fannie's age is incorrect. Added-
If you look at the scanned image of 1910 census it says it was a 2nd marriage for both Aaron & Fannie. Also says Fannie came to US 1890.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9RVS-NDH?i=19&cc=1727033
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Wow I wouldn't have known that that squiggle was an m plus s or that it meant second married
# thanks for pointing out that I've got spelling wrong ..
I.ll make sure it's Schwartz in future posts and ask modifier to change title
It says they'd been married for 8 years
9 children 8 still living could refer to Aaron but it's in the column for Fannie
That's heavy going
8 living children on the census .
My great grandfather had 17 children on 1910 census it had 6 with 3 for his second wife
They had 5 children living with them which made confusing reading
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aga
I made notes from what I saw in 1920 but didn't note place of census
... sorry
have been busy will try and find it again
Thanks for these links somehow I couldn't see originals when I searched on my computer ...something not compatible but I could from my iPad or from your link .
Annie may have been Fried......from an Ancestry tree but they have question mark next to name
whether that was maiden or 1 st marriage I don't know
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Looking at the Aaron who died in 1924, his wife appears to be Elizabeth. https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2WLZ-29Y The cemetery where Aaron was buried has an internment search here - http://www.mounthebroncemetery.com/search.asp Aaron & Elizabeth were buried in nearby plots, and there was an Israel Schwartz who died 1918 in between them.
I guess Fannie could have Anglicized herself as Elizabeth, or this could be a different couple.
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I think this is another Aaron + wife
* It could be same one the children's names Saul and Esther link * modified
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Then it sounds like the one who died in 1924 is not Fannie's husband.
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Man with DNA connection doesnt know much about her but says her mother's name was Chaya Rivka.
And she was born near Latvia Lithuania border
Her daughter was named Naomi ..Nellie in USA
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1920 census
Philadelphia ward
Aron 50 b1870 Roumania immigrated 1887 naturalized
Wife Fannie Schwartz 47
Tailor own shop
Saul 24
Esther 24 Helen 3 Edith 2 sylvan 0
Anita 20 a
abraham16
Morris 10
Rose 7
Leon 6
(Info Sent from a cousin because I couldn't find where I'd seen it before)
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When posting information you've found please, please, PLEASE spell names correctly. This is the SCHWARTZ family in Philadelphia in 1920 census-
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M6YP-87M
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Major apologies
I wonder if it's too late to change title
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Hi Brigidmac,
I've made the correction for you.
Spades
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Thanks ....dreadful mistake to make misspelling surname
Reminds me of school punishment when I had to write 100 lines " I must attempt to be more studios in approach"
That lesson obviously didn't set in
Can anyone tell me what anglicised version of" Chaya. Rivka " would be please
Could Rivka be Rebecca ??
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Hi. The guy with the DNA connection here:
Part of the issue we're facing is that Nellie/Naomi had a bunch of siblings, all with very common names, some were anglicized from their Hebrew/Yiddish names, others were just chosen arbitrarily.
Fannie's mother:
Chaya Rivka ________ (never immigrated)
Father unknown (never immigrated). Right now we've got Friedman as the missing surname here, but to be honest, I don't remember where I got that from, and I think it came from gov't records, not a first hand source.
Naomi's Parents:
Aaron Schwartz (entered via NYC)
Fannie ________ (entered via NYC)
Naomi (b 1901) (entered via NYC ~1904-1908)
Her siblings, it is unclear how many of them immigrated vs were born in the US. Naomi was among the oldest children and came here as a toddler.
Jean
Anne
Mo
Morris
Eppie
William
Sophie
Nita (confirmed youngest b USA 1909)
Those are the official siblings, names were given from Naomi's daughter (still living). From what I can tell from this conversation, there is a strong possibility we've combined two families who adopted strikingly similar names.
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Similar names for children can be because they are actually cousins and name children after the same ancestors .
Hopefully we.ll be able to work out how our DNA matches eventually if the Latvia link isn't a red herring .
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Update lots more DNA matches now
I think I've found Fannie nee Fellman.
matches with SHWARTZ spelling
Also came up with surnames Diamond and Gordon
This led me to
Sarah Schwartz 1881 russia d 1941 NY
m. Peter GORDON 1864 LATVIA ( where my ancestors are from )
But she is his second wife so the first 5 GORDON children 1904- 1984
Are children of Fannie MILLER
b 10 THmay 1867 Russia
Father named as Lozer (alternative spelling for my great grandfather)s 1st name
Mother named as Sarah .. difficult to read marriage cert
Why the surname MILLER ? Maybe not married
Peter GORDON s descendants have mother of his children as Shwartz but DNA is linking quite strongly to us 24 cm.
What do you all think ?
If I put it as hypothese on my tree or try contacting some descendats
I don't know how ./if the Friedman name fits
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Fannie MILLER m Gordon
Has other DNA matches to myself + shared with Ethan
With surnames Latvia Lithuania origins
Fanny who married ?Fried
Then Aaron Shwartz
Is a different woman
Summary ;
details so far
Aaron Schwartz b1865 Roumania/Russia
Naturalization before 1920
Ist wife Eliza buried with children Esther and Saul
Aged 13 +14 in 1910
Aaron
50 2nd wife Fanny aged 47 in 1920
Saul age 24 wife Esther and children Helen 3 Edith 2 Saul 0
Other children .of Aaron
.Anita 20 Abraham 16 Morris 10 rose 7 lea
3 siblings of Aaron :1896 Morris b
Nellie / Naomi b 1901
Both born Russia
Nita born 1909 USA
*I think we need a separate thread for them
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Regarding various spellings for potential matches in various countries
from different trees
We have
Ary leib Cohen SHERMAN /SZERMAN b Poland
m. Dora SHVARTZ/ SHWARTZ.
RUSSIA 1838
Ryfka CHOJNOWICZ m Abram ZARYWACS 1800 POLAND
1883 Sam SEPERSKY Russia m Sophie JOSEPH from Romania
Children in Greece !
Bassie SHWARTZ 1900 Russia m
May WEINER. 1891 married Quebec died N
Father b1847 Roumania
SCHATZ from Moldovia m WEINSTEIN from Poland
Children SHWARTZ
Mihaly SZABA b1901 Hungary
Father Antal SHWARTZ
Which country favours The spelling with C most ?
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Update details for the couple living in Brooklyn
Aaron + Fanny SCHWARTZ given byHi. The guy with the DNA connection here:
Part of the issue we're facing is that Nellie/Naomi had a bunch of siblings, all with very common names, some were anglicized from their Hebrew/Yiddish names, others were just chosen arbitrarily.
Fannie's mother:
Chaya Rivka ________ (never immigrated)
Father unknown (never immigrated). Right now we've got Friedman as the missing surname
Naomi's Parents:
Aaron Schwartz (entered via NYC)
Fannie ________ (entered via NYC)
Naomi (b 1901) (entered via NYC ~1904-1908)
Naomi * Nellie was among the oldest children and came here as a toddler.
Jean
Anne
Mo
Morris
Eppie
William
Sophie
Nita (confirmed youngest b USA 1909)
Those are the official siblings, names were given from Naomi's daughter (still living). From what I can tell from this conversation, there is a strong possibility we've combined two families who adopted strikingly similar names.
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According to 1910 census 587 Ames street Aaron b1870 arrived USA 1904
Fanny b 1874 and children arrived 1907
The couple had been married 19 years 9 children .born all living
Everyone born Russia except baby Mary b New York
Children named
1910.
Morris15.
Sophie 14
Moses 13
Annie. 12
Nettie 10
Jennie 9
William8
Mary months
Same children 1920 district 23
Morris 25 railroad conductor
Sophie missing .married ?
Moe 23. Confectioner
Annie 22 saleslady
Nellie 21 this is Naomi
No sign of Netta/ nita born 1909
Jennie 18 strepper paper box co
William 17 messenger telegraph
Esther 15. Later known as Eppie
Mary 10
Father Aaron SCHWARTZ draper cloaks Minsk Russia
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Later records show Fanny and children born
Suralk(Suwalki) RUSSIA does that lie on old borders ?
In 1930
Harry /Aaron's age 62 age at first marriage 26
Fannie age 52 age married 16 so I don't think she could have had a previous marriage
Children still with them
Moe 31 salesman
Jean 27 bookkeeper paper box Eppie 25 cashier
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Found list of manifest
New York passenger list
Arrivenew York 23 oct1907
From Bremen
Schwartz
Feiga age 32 last address Susvalki
Next of kin Chane Riska ... illegible
She seems to be travelling with 5 girls and 1 boy
The names correspond but eldest 2 boys not with them
Schiffre 10 ( Sophie)
Chane 9 (Annie)
nechane .. difficult to read .. Netta
Sheila 7 (Jennie)
weiwel ? 5 William
Este 3 ,Esther
If anyone can decipher mother's name I.d be grateful
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Moe's naturalization certificate
says he arrived NY 14 th Oct 1907
He would only have been 10
Elder brother Morris would have been 12
Did they travel together or with family members ?
I wonder why they didn't come with mother and siblings
I think the baby Mary born New York must be the sister referred to as Nita in reply 8
Shows up again as Mary age 10
Kings New York 1920 Bergen Street
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Suwalki is a city in Poland, in the 19th cent. it was Russia.
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Thanks Alex
I have some dna matches with surnames that could derive from Suwalski which would be another example of a family taking surname from town they lived in