RootsChat.Com
Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: lesleyhannah on Sunday 16 July 17 20:40 BST (UK)
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I'm helping my son in law to research a mystery branch of his tree. The Shaw family seems to have been based in Huddersfield, moved to Manchester, Liverpool then his branch ended in east End London. My question is the occupation Traveller (wives often described as hawker); I'd assumed this meant they were travelling salesmen, but a friend suggested that the fact that there were some from Ireland could point to Irish Travellers.
What would other researchers understand by the word traveller on a census? Any help gratefully received. Thank you
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Yes, I would take that more as a Traveller ( ie Romany, gypsy etc) perhaps with no fixed abode rather than a travelling salesman, especially if the wife is described as a hawker. What addresses are given in the censuses, are they houses?
In one census my great grandfather was described as a mustard salesman (travelling) so I think if they'd been travelling salesman it would have been described in a similar way.
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Thank you groom, that's a big help. I had just assumed a traveller meant a door to door salesman, which I remember from my childhood in the 1940s. Just waiting to see if anyone who knows about Travellers can tell me if the name Shaw sounds likely. Then it'll mean getting all the records out and looking again.
Regards
Lesley
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Just waiting to see if anyone who knows about Travellers can tell me if the name Shaw sounds likely. Then it'll mean getting all the records out and looking again.
Did ye call me, Lesley? ;D The BOB ~ please click my house. Above left ~ has good news for ye! SHAW is a helluvva Gypsy surname!
Get this:
" 1567 to the present. (Intermittent) Used in ..... Deep breath ..... BFD, CAM, CHS, DBY, ESS, HRT, HUN, IRE, KEN, LDN, LEI, NBD, NFK, NTH, NTT, SAL, SCO, SFK, STF, WAR, YKS. "
:o Phew! So, yeah! Fill ye boots! 8)
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Just waiting to see if anyone who knows about Travellers can tell me if the name Shaw sounds likely. Then it'll mean getting all the records out and looking again.
Did ye call me, Lesley? ;D The BOB ~ please click my house. Above left ~ has good news for ye! SHAW is a helluvva Gypsy surname!
Get this:
" 1567 to the present. (Intermittent) Used in ..... Deep breath ..... BFD, CAM, CHS, DBY, ESS, HRT, HUN, IRE, KEN, LDN, LEI, NBD, NFK, NTH, NTT, SAL, SCO, SFK, STF, WAR, YKS. "
:o Phew! So, yeah! Fill ye boots! 8)
Well, this is more exciting news than I ever found in my own family tree! I'm still going through the ancestry records - I think a couple of families may have been mixed up though I'm not sure. Son in law's Shaws first found in Almondbury (\I believe near Huddersfield) but with connections in Manchester area and Liverpool.
Thank you so much for your help - every bit of information is valuable. \I would never have guessed Shaw was a travellers' name. Will let you know if \I make any progress with this search.
Regards, and more thanks.
Lesley
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A travelling salesman would be described as a representative.
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In the part of Liverpool I lived in - in the 1940a - we used to call them travellers (maybe short for commercial travellers - or maybe just local slang?) which is probably what threw me. So thanks for your reply - it's all adding to the bigger picture. Think I may have been a bit too enthusiastic deleting all the Liverpool records which I thought were probably a different family! Feeling the genealogy bug again!
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LesleyHannah; Don't forget, Liverpool was a Big staging post for the Irish, coming over, back in the day.
:-\ Ooh dear! And ye've slung all that research?! Horror!
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My first husband was Liverpool Irish. In the 50s it was called a mixed marriage!
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A HUGE thank you to you all. A whole new road has opened up to me thanks to your suggestions. My son in law's grandmother Annie Shaw had her first child George nin Withington workhouse. She later married Richard Johnson in 1852 presumably not George's father. On the marriage cert Richard's occupation is hawker. I hadn't paid much attention to Richard as he wasn't a blood relation. But your answers prompted me to look at the wider family networks and I've just found the 1891 census for Salford which shows Richard Johnson and his wife Annie (nee Shaw) and under address it says Travelling Show (it also says something about Liverpool, but my eyesight isn't too good and I can't read it.
They really were travellers/showmen! Can snyone suggest where I could find anything about the Travelling show that Richard was involved with?
Rootschatters have once again knocked down my brick wall. Son-in-law delighted!
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Funny how things happen! Thanks to help from rootschatters we discovered my son in laws ancestors were travelling showmen - something that had never been mentioned in his family. It all started by seeing the occupation 'traveller' which I'd misinterpreted, and asking on this forum if the surname Shaw could be a Romany/gypsy name.
But thinking about it, there's a whole branch (small one) of my own family where the men are described as travellers or hawkers, though there also seem to be connections with canals and docks etc in Hull. So . . . the marriage is between Esther Lowsley and Walter Varey. Do either of these surnames suggest a link with travellers? It would be a Great help if they do as I've spent at least 15 years trying to trace where they came from.
It would also be a welcome change from a long line of scullery maids and framework knitters etc!
Thank you.
Lesley
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Esther Lowsley and Walter Varey. Do either of these surnames suggest a link with travellers?
Varey? I didn't even need to consult the 'BOB', to know That one rang bells!
" 1702 - present. (Int). CHS, CUL, DBY, KEN, LAN, WES, YKS. "
;)
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Well, this is all new to me! But suddenly my family is starting to to sound interesting . . . Could I ask one more question. If the husband came from a traveller family, is it likely his wife's family are also gypsies or travellers? An awful lot of things are starting to make sense now.
I don't know what the BOB is but I'm very grateful for your help. Thank you Steve.
Lesley
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I don't know what the BOB is but I'm very grateful for your help.
The Horror!!! Sorry, Lesley. I lose track. But, I thought I'd already explained 'The Bob', on this thread :-[ Click my little house, below my avatar. All will be revealed.
I actually messaged Admin about this. I'd like to take it a step further, for the benefit of all.
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I'm daft! You did say the thing about your house but I didn't know what you meant. I hadn't been on this forum before, but getting the hang of it slowly. Thanks again. Lesley
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Others more specialised may not agree, but I believe if still travelling probably Yes, if settled somewhat less likely.
While on the subject of you come across the surname Ayres (any spelling) amongst the show people please let me know. Thanks.