RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => United States of America => Topic started by: MAMC on Sunday 16 July 17 23:30 BST (UK)
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Am trying to trace the decendants of Patrick Horgan and his wife Catherine McDermoth who left Cork possibly between 1879 and 1904. This man is also my granfathers much older brother. The only information I have at this time is that he was born in Cork Ireland on 11th June 1859 to John Horgan and Mary Horgan (nee Leahy). He married Catherine McDermott or (McDermoth) in St. Peter & Pauls Church Cork on 14th June 1879.
The only details I have with regard to his journey to America is on his brothers's army records which gives next of kin "Patrick Horgan America".
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Possible children for Patrick and Catherine:
John Horgan born 23 Dec 1886 in New York - https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2WMV-C1T Patrick's age was listed as 28, so that would fit fairly closely with the info you have.
Grace Ellen Horgan born 29 Nov 1897 in New York - https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2W34-13N
If that's them, this 1900 census seems to fit - https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MSKZ-CYL
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Dear Shellyesq,
Many thanks for taking the time to reply to my request. I'm not sure we have the correct Patrick Horgan as when I checked on the birth of his Son John it says "Father born in America" and my Patrick was born in Cork Ireland.
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Dear Shellyesq,
Many thanks for taking the time to reply to my request. I'm not sure we have the correct Patrick Horgan as when I checked on the birth of his Son John it says "Father born in America" and my Patrick was born in Cork Ireland.
That could very well be wrong information given by the informant or in transcription - the details for the daughter Grace say father born Ireland ??? (and the mother born US ???)
Wouldn't discount.
Sandra
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IF it turns out to be the correct family Grace married John J Neyland - 21 June 1921 - Bronx New York.
U.S., Social Security Applications and Claims Index, Grace Rita Neyland born 29 November 1897 - New York City - passed away 10 February 1988 -
Father - Patrick Horgan and Mother Catherine McDermott.
Sandra
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Catherine Horgan was widowed by 1910 - East 56 th Street Manhattan Ward 19, New York, New York.
Lovely transcription for Catherine - clear as a bell on the image Horgan.
Catherine Poporgan 49 Born Ny 1861. Parents Ireland. Dressmaker Department Store. Had 10 children 5 survive.
James Horgan 20 Born NY. Driver. Express Co.
Catherine Horgan 18 Born New york. Saleslady.
Grace Horgan 12
Sandra
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U.S., Social Security Applications and Claims Index, Edward Horgan - 8 July 1884 - type of claim SSN June 1937 - Edward Francis Horgan- Father - Patrick J Horgan. Mother - Catherine McDermot
Sandra
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City Hall Place Manhattan Ward 6, New York, New York 1910
Edward F Horgan 25 Born New york. Chauffeur.
Mary M Horgan 23
John P Horgan 4
Margaret H Horgan 3
William Bell 26 Boarder.
Intervale Avenue Bronx Assembly District 5, Bronx, New York 1920
Edward F Horgan 36 Cashier. Newspaper Office.
Mary Horgan 31
John Horgan 14
Anna Horgan 6
William Bell 36 Boarder.
Edward F Horgan - 1884 passed away 23 November 1941 - Queens New York.
Queens New York 1925
Edward F Horgan 40 Mary M Horgan 37
John P Horgan 20 Margureite Horgan 18
Anna L Horgan 12 Edward F Horgan 04
Virginia Horgan
William Bill 41 Lodger.
Sandra
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1940 New York, Queens, New York
Edward F Horgan 55
Mary Horgan 52
Anne Horgan 27 Stenographer. Publication Co.
Edward Horgan 19 Labourer. Construction.
Virginia Horgan 15
U.S., Social Security Applications and Claims Index, 1936-2007 Virginia Marie Horgan - Virginia Marie Oneill - 1 December 1922 - 20 August 1991 - Father Edward F Horgan and Mother Mary M Oconnor.
FIND A GRAVE - slight discrepancy on date.
1 December 1924 - 20 August 1991
Burial: Florida National Cemetery Bushnell Sumter County Florida.
Plot: 104, 188
https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=3984856&ref=acom
spouse William J O Neill - 4 October 1921 - 16 November 2012 - with obituary.
https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=100864424&ref=acom
Sandra
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U.S., Social Security Applications and Claims Index, 1936-2007 - Edward Francis Horgan (son)
16 May 1988 - July 1919 - Father Edward F Horgan and Mother Mary Oconnor.
FIND A GRAVE
Burial Calverton National Cemetery Calverton Suffolk County New York.
Plot: 8, 11077
https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=4041201&ref=acom
Sandra
Can continue if you think we have the right link ?
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Dear Sandra,
Many thanks for the information but I'm not so sure it's the Patrick Horgan that I am looking for. Patrick and Catherine (to my knowledge) were married here in Cork in June 1879. In your 1900 Census it says that Patrick emigrated in 1874 so if that is correct he could not have married in Cork in 1879. I will go to town tomorrow and hopefully will get a copy of his civil Marriage which might give us a little more information.
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...he was born in Cork Ireland on 11th June 1859 to John Horgan and Mary Horgan (nee Leahy). He married Catherine McDermott or (McDermoth) in St. Peter & Pauls Church Cork on 14th June 1879...
What I found slightly off was the birth date given for the 1900 census - May 1858. However, the 1900 couple does have the 1879 marriage date and as it was pointed out earlier, it looks like Catherine's maiden name was McDermot?.
Does this couple follow the Irish naming pattern for your Horgans (with the known children being Edward, John, James, Catherine and Grace Ellen)?
Patrick's occupation in 1900 was shown as Painter. Of course, he could have taken on any work, but did you have any painters in your family?
PS If he truly did immigrate in 1874, perhaps the couple went back to Ireland for the marriage and shortly thereafter returned to America? :-\
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Hi Lisa,
Patrick's father's name was John and his Mother's name was Mary. I don't know the names of Catherine's parents. I think the civil marriage record will give me a little more information, for instance the fathers names and occupations and also Patricks occupation. What I do find strange is that there are so few Patrick Horgans and Catherine McDermoths on record in the U.S.
Many thanks for your help.
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Dear Sandra,
Many thanks for the information but I'm not so sure it's the Patrick Horgan that I am looking for. Patrick and Catherine (to my knowledge) were married here in Cork in June 1879. In your 1900 Census it says that Patrick emigrated in 1874 so if that is correct he could not have married in Cork in 1879. I will go to town tomorrow and hopefully will get a copy of his civil Marriage which might give us a little more information.
Immigration and birth dates can very often be varied or fictitious, the information was only as good as the informants knowledge. Doesn't necessarily mean it was Patrick or Catherine that filled those details in.
There was a death record for a Patrick Horgan born 1857 (slightly out from your chap) in Manhattan - passed away 5 March 1904 - burial 8 March 1904 - father David :-\ Occupation "porter" - Cemetery Calvary.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2WX2-VNL
Sandra
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The chap who passed away in 1904 (as listed above) was not your Patrick - FIND A GRAVE
Burial Calvary Cemetery Woodside Queens County New York.
Plot: S
https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=150485491&ref=acom
Sandra
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Hi Sandra,
Many thanks for this,
Hilda....
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Could this be your Patrick?
Patrick J Horgan, born c1857
Death: 22 December 1908, Kings, New York
Social Security Application and Claims Index
Patrick Horgan
Spouse: Catherine McDermott
Child: Grace Rita Neyland
After a somewhat quick search, I didn't find the family (with or without Patrick) on the 1905 census. :-\
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Note: There was a Patrick J Horgan who was in Massachusetts with similar details, but if I remember correctly when I was searching yesterday, his wife was not named Catherine.
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Patrick Horgan, wife Catherine Callahan
Patrick was born c1861, Ireland. They were married 6 September 1888, Boston
Naturalization record
Patrick J Horgan, 30 Pearl?, Lynn (town), Massachusetts. Laborer. Born County Cork, Ireland, c1858. Arrived in U.S. 7 July 1883.
Record filed in Salem, MA 31 January 1888
Confusing with two Patrick Horgans, born c1859 in County Cork.
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Hi Lisa,
Took a trip to the Births Deaths and Marriages office today. This is the information on the civil marriage certificate. Patrick Horgan and Catherine McDermott were married in Cork on 14th June 1879. Patricks father was named John and his occupation was a labourer. Catherine's father was also named John (deceased) and his occupation was a sailor. Patricks occupation was a labourer and there was not any occupation for Catherine.
Would I be right in assuming that the journey to America would have been via ship from Queenstown ( now known as Cobh) to New York or Boston. Are there any easily accessed ships manifest for that period?
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Thank you for confirming previous information and for the added material. :)
All of my ancestors were in Canada prior to your Horgans' sailing date, so I am not too familiar with passages around that time, but I do believe you are correct.
However, not everyone sailed directly to America; some sailed to Canada and then settled in the states (I believe this was more common during earlier years, though). There is also a slight possibility that they could have left Ireland for work in Scotland and possibly England, so I wouldn't rule out them sailing from a different port. In addition to New York and Boston, I believe Philadelphia was also a destination. I'm sure other RootsChatters will have more knowledge than me. ;)
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PS I have been looking on a pay site for Patrick and cannot yet confirm his sailing. I am hoping to find Patrick and Catherine sailing together, but there is always the possibility that he sailed first and then she followed.
I'm still trying to find them in the 1905 New York Census. ;) I'm hoping it will provide some leads.
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From a pay site:
1905 Manhattan, New York Census
Patrick J Hargin, age 48, born Ireland, Painter
Catherine, wife, age 44, born U.S., Housework
John, son, age 18, Clerk
James, son, age 16, Cash Boy
Kate, daughter, age 13, at school
Grace, daughter, age 7, at school
All children born in U.S.
1032 Second Avenue
Could Patrick have sailed to America, met Catherine and decided to marry in Ireland? :-\ Catherine continues to state that she was born in America. Or, could she have been born in the states and returned to Ireland at an early age (I have seen that before).
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Hmmm...
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2WFY-C82
Patrick J Horgan
Born: c1857, Ireland
Died: 22 December 1908, Brooklyn, NY
Painter
Father: John Horgan
Mother: Mary Ann O'Neill
Calvary Cemetery
Additional facts on the site mentioned above
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Thank you so much Lisa. Patrick and Catherine lived 3 houses from each other. I very much doubt if they would have had the money to come back to Ireland to marry. It's my quess they emigrated after the marriage. Have checked local church records for a Baptism of a baby 1879/ 1880 but found nothing. My only piece of information is on my Granfathers army records where it says next of kin "Patrick Horgan U S America."
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Have you found Catherine's birth information - would it show in which month she was born? The 1900 New York census states Catherine Horgan was born March 1861.
I've not yet found Catherine Horgan's passing in New York. If found, perhaps it may provide her parents' names?
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Could this be your Catherine (and the Catherine from the 1900 census)?
Ireland Catholic Parish Register
Catherine McDermott
Baptism: 9 March 1851, Youghal, Cork, Ireland
Parents: John McDermott and Catherine Murry
Residence place was 66 Regt
Diocese: Cloyne
Sponsors: Patrick Nack? Mary Anne Murry?
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It might be Lisa but I couldn't be sure as all I have for Catherine is her address here in Cork, her date of marriage and her fathers name.