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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: JudeNZ01 on Tuesday 18 July 17 04:53 BST (UK)
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Hi All - An immediate brick wall. Arthur Perrin b 1869 Wellington New Zealand to Elizabeth Perrin. No father named on birth cert, marriage cert or death cert. Have everything from Arthur down but at a loss as to where to go for Elizabeth.
Any help very much appreciated.
Jude
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So what is this then?
Name Elizabeth Perrin
Sex Female
Husband NR Perrin
Child Arthur Perrin
New Zealand, Civil Records Indexes
Name Arthur Perrin
Event Type Birth
Event Date 1869
Event Place New Zealand
Father's Name NR Perrin
Mother's Name Elizabeth Perrin
Registration Number 1869/18952
Is this the Arthur for whom you have a birth certificate?
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NR appears on both IGI & NZ birth indexes. Maybe it should read NK=Not Known or NR=Not Registered.
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It means 'not recorded'.
Was Elizabeth the informant and if so what was her address? When Arthur married did he know his mother's name? Who were the witnesses?
Debra :)
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I'm curious as to why this thread isn't on the NZ board.
Jamjar
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Could you explain what you mean by this please?: Have everything from Arthur down but at a loss as to where to go for Elizabeth.
I assume you have seen that there are 2 deaths on NZBDM for Elizabeth Perrin's.
Jamjar
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Jamjar - Have all the info I need on Arthur ie marriage death children grandchildren etc etc. I have seen the 2 Elizabeth Perrins but don't want to have to fork out lots of dollars if they aren't her. This post isn't on the New Zealand board because I am having great difficulty with this site.
Debra - Elizabeth's name is on all docs. Marriage cert for Arthur states Elizabeth Perrin. Surname or family name at birth if different states not recorded which makes me think Arthur was illegitimate.
On birth cert it just gives her name and Wellington, no actual street address. States Father Unknown.
Girl Guide - Yes this is the one. The printout says Father Unknown.
Just at a bit of a loss as to where to go for Elizabeth. Might just have to bite the bullet and order the 2 death certs.
Thank you very much everyone for taking an interest.
Jude
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Jude you can request that this be moved to the NZ board, by clicking on the 'report to moderator' button at the bottom of your post and asking them to move it.
There are some folk on that board who have access to local resources that may assist with your search.
Yes, I agree that he is likely to be illegitimate.
Jamjar
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Be advised that Elizabeth Perrin d. 1901 was 77 giving a BY of 1824 meaning she would have been 45 when she had Arthur. A bit old for a first child.
The other Elizabeth d. 1910 was 77 giving a BY of 1829 so 40 when she had Arthur.
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I have been having a look around and I think there is a reasonable chance that she is the Elizabeth PERIN (indexed with one R) who married in 1870 to Michael O'CONNOR.
Arthur's obit says that he went to Palmerston North when he was two years old, so that was around 1871, and as far as I can see the PERRINs that were living there at the time were all related to John Edmund PERRIN born c1846 who was the son of Edmund and Mary PERRIN. It is worth noting that Edmund and Mary had a child in 1853 which was unnamed at the time of registration.
Mention here of Elizabeth's death in 1916:
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/EP19160701.2.47
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/EP19160704.2.4
Arthur's obit:
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/MT19260529.2.25
John Edmund PERRIN's obit:
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/MS19140831.2.16
So if Arthur was raised within the O'CONNOR family then perhaps we can find some something to either prove or disprove the theory before you buy any certificates.
Debra :)
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A birth year of 1852/3 makes more sense.
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Might just have to bite the bullet and order the 2 death certs.
Hi Jude,
Getting the printout is the cheaper option, it is a photocopy of the registration, has more information, can be emailed to you, but with the death it is only as good as who the informant was.
Cheers
KHP
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The children of Michael O'CONNOR and Elizabeth PERRIN:
1871/20650 O'Connor Alfred James
1873/15444 O'Connor Kathleen Mary
1875/8027 O'Connor Elizabeth Ann
1877/4090 O'Connor Ellen Mary
1879/16729 O'Connor Lilly
1881/6981 O'Connor Julia
1883/19469 O'Connor Minnie
1886/6323 O'Connor Ileen
Michael O'CONNOR's obit is quite interesting, but no mention of family:
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/TS19180313.2.42.3
There are a lot of in memorium notices for Michael and Elizabeth from their children and associated families but nothing from an Arthur.
There is some information here about the family of Edmund PERRIN (I cannot vouch for the accuracy):
http://lesprattpedigree.blogspot.com.au/2010/03/nico-mccomb-carl-barbara-helen-pratt.html
Note that Edmund's wife Mary Ann (possibly the mother of your Elizabeth and grandmother to Arthur) remarried in 1862 to William OAKLEY, and one of Arthur's sons born in 1898 was named Oakley Kiwi Leslie.
Mary Ann died in 1894 just a week after the death of Arthur's son Sydney and they are both buried at the Manawatu cemetery.
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/EP18940320.2.8
A photo of Mary Ann:
https://manawatuheritage.pncc.govt.nz/item/c6df848d-12aa-4412-9493-7ab99627f179
Arthur's obit says that he went to Palmerston North when he was two years old, so that was around 1871
Note that Mary Ann also moved to Palmerston North in 1871.
Who were the witnesses when Arthur married?
Debra :)
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Be advised that Elizabeth Perrin d. 1901 was 77 giving a BY of 1824 meaning she would have been 45 when she had Arthur. A bit old for a first child.
This one was married to John Perrin. See Reply# 66
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=379155.msg6166242#msg6166242
So that rules out one Death Prinout.
Cheers
KHP
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Hi Jude, and welcome to RootsChat,
I think you'll get more responses and information if this topic appears on the New Zealand Board, so with your permission I'll move it across.
If you have any questions about how to use this forum don't hesitate to ask on your topic. Everyone is willing to help. :)
Spades
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Hi again Jude,
I note that they are several topics on the New Zealand Completed Requests pages relating to the surname PERRIN.
The best way to find them is to click on SEARCH in the brown command bar above, type in 'perrin' into the search field.
Then unclick 'click all' before clicking on the text immediately above in the teal blue bar, 'Choose a board to search in, or search all'.
Then go down and tick 'New Zealand Completed Requests' and hit search.
It's not as complicated as it sounds. ::)
Spades
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Thanks for moving across Spades :D
Cheers
KHP
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Hi again Jude,
I note that they are several topics on the New Zealand Completed Requests pages relating to the surname PERRIN.
The best way to find them is to click on SEARCH in the brown command bar above, type in 'perrin' into the search field.
Then unclick 'click all' before clicking on the text immediately above in the teal blue bar, 'Choose a board to search in, or search all'.
Then go down and tick 'New Zealand Completed Requests' and hit search.
It's not as complicated as it sounds. ::)
Spades
Here is the link to one........
Although the subject is shown as Ellen Eliza, it is actually about Elizabeth Eliza.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=738900.0
The birth referred to [Elizabeth Eliza]-
1853*/4043 Perrin NR Mary Ann Edmund
*The date of birth was recorded as 11.1.1853 in the NZ BDM records.
Minniehaha.
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Have you checked the school records for Arthur? if Elizabeth married her husband may be his guardian
Cheers Janette
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The 1916 death registration:
1916/8769 O'Connor Elizabeth Ann 63Y
Minniehaha.
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Gosh I don't know where to start with expressing my thanks and gratitude for all the replies and work you have all done. Mind is a bit of a blur.
I'll sift through and get this all straight in my head over the weekend.
Thank you all very much
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I'll sift through and get this all straight in my head over the weekend.
Thank you all very much
Take your time we are here when you need more help :D :D
Cheers Janette
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See Jude, told you! ;D 8)
Spades
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Is this the death notice for William Oakley? [Second husband of Mary Ann Perrin].
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/EP18741114.2.5?query=w.%20oakley
1874/14344 Oakley William 66Y