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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Shropshire => Topic started by: tonyharrison on Wednesday 02 August 17 12:18 BST (UK)

Title: Swain family (-ies) in and near Condover
Post by: tonyharrison on Wednesday 02 August 17 12:18 BST (UK)
There are a number of Swains in this area and I've contacted a couple so far, with no result except a couple of leads to follow. I wonder if there are any Swains on this forum who hail from the Condover area? My maternal grandfather was Louis Swain, born at Cross Houses (his army record suggests, barely legible!) in probably June 1893 - on joining the army 31st August 1914 he gave his age as 21 years and 2 months. He'd married Ada Gibbons in Malpas, Cheshire (he worked as a butcher at Hampton nearby) on 5th January 1914, survived WW1 with a couple of wounds, and lived thereafter in Cheshire, dying in the 1970s.
The photo might help: my best guess is it dates from about 1910. Seated front is my great-grandfather William Swain, with his wife (said to have been Welsh, maybe called Rachel) standing behind. At the back, centre, stands my grandfather Louis; at the front seated are his brothers Archie (L) and Charlie (R) with their sister Esther; the other four brothers are Tom, Will, Jack and Hugh, though not necessarily in that order. Hugh was a lorry driver, my mother (aged 89) recalls, and later moved to Blackpool; Archie started a coal business - I was led to believe a spot on the OS map south of Shrewsbury, on the railway line adjacent to a signal box, was named Swain's Field because of his business located there; Charlie stayed near Condover and had one child, Arthur; Tom later on lived at Shawbury. My mother says she always understood her grandfather William Swain had a brother who started a haulage/transport business.
I've had no luck so far in finding any further information, but perhaps someone here can help.
Thanks - Tony
Title: Re: Swain family (-ies) in and near Condover
Post by: KGarrad on Wednesday 02 August 17 12:56 BST (UK)
Welcome to RootsChat! ;D

RootsChat has it's very own Surnames Interest Table :D Have you looked there?

Scroll down to the bottom of any RC page.
There, in the dark brown box, underneath the heading "Your Tools", you will find "Surname Interests".
Click on that and then go searching under "S" etc for Swain.
Title: Re: Swain family (-ies) in and near Condover
Post by: Alberbury on Wednesday 02 August 17 13:00 BST (UK)
https://familysearch.org

Name   Louis Swain
Event Type   Census
Event Date   1891
County   Shropshire
Parish   Berrington
Ecclesiastical Parish   BERRINGTON
Registration District   Atcham
Residence Note   Brampton Lane

Wm Swain   Head   M           30   Farm Labourer   Shropshire, England
Eleanor Swain   Wife   F   35                           Shropshire, England
Wm Swain   Son   M            6                           Shropshire, England
Esther Jane Swain   Daughter   F   4           Shropshire, England
Louis Swain   Son   M    1                           Shropshire, England



Name   Lewis Swain
Event Type   Census
Event Date   31 Mar 1901
Event Place   Upton Magna, Shropshire, England
County   Shropshire
Civil Parish   Upton Magna
Ecclesiastical Parish   Upton Magna
Sub-District   Condover
Registration District   Atcham

William Swain   Head   M   40      STOCKMAN ON FARM    Atcham, Salop
Elenor Swain   Wife   F   45                                        Parish N K, Montgomeryshire
Lewis Swain   Son   M   11                                        Uffington, Salop
Thomas Swain   Son   M   9                                        Uffington, Salop
David H Swain   Son   M   7                                        Preston Gubbulds, Salop
John E Swain   Son   M   5                                        Preston Gubbulds, Salop
Archie C Swain   Son   M   2                                        Albrighton Shrewsbury, Salop
Charles Swain   Son   M   0                                        Albrighton Shrewsbury, Salop
Title: Re: Swain family (-ies) in and near Condover
Post by: trish1120 on Wednesday 02 August 17 13:43 BST (UK)
Welcome to Rootschat Tony,

Birth Reg GRO Index
SWAIN, LOUIS, Mothers maiden name   LEWIS****
GRO Reference: 1889  S Quarter in ATCHAM  Volume 06A  Page 622

Marriage Reg FreeBMD
June 1884, Oswestry, 61 1281
William SWAIN and Elenor LEWIS on same page


Esther Janes Husband was a Carter;
She married James Edward Albert Meredith 1912 in Lancashire

Not sure what you have so just a brief out-line;

William Swain 1861's Parents were WILLIAM/ELIZABETH nee MULLARD
Info from Edwards GRO Index Birth Reg;

1861 Census
William Swain   49
Elizabeth Swain   29
John Swain   4
Edward Swain   1

1871 Census
William Swain   59
Elizabeth Swain   40
John Swain   14
Edward Swain   12
WILLIAM Swain   10******
Sarah Swain   7
Mary I Swain   4
Emma Swain   1 Year, 6 Months

FreeBMD has a 1855 Marriage for Emma MULLARD but a male spouse is missing.
(he may be down as William Hiam)

Anyhow its the right Marriage as Familysearch.Org has;

5 August 1855, Oswestry, Shropshire, William SWAIN to Elizabeth MULLARD


Trish  :)




Title: Re: Swain family (-ies) in and near Condover
Post by: tonyharrison on Wednesday 02 August 17 14:16 BST (UK)
Alberbury, many thanks for this. It exemplifies a factor I'd already discovered in my initial researches: conflicting information. This is clearly my grandfather and his family, but here he's been born about 1890; the record of his marriage in 1914 at Malpas says he was aged 24, which matches; yet his military record, which I just checked, says his stated age on 31st August 1914 was 21 years 2 months... Nice to have confirmation that great-grandmother was indeed Welsh - my mother says she was thought to be rather fierce, chasing Louis and his brothers with a pig stick if they misbehaved!
KGarrad, thanks for the tip about surnames, which I'll try. Trish, ditto for the information about great-grandmother Lewis - I wonder if her maiden name has anything to do with a certain confusion over the spelling of my grandfather's forename.
Kind regards, Tony
Title: Re: Swain family (-ies) in and near Condover
Post by: trish1120 on Wednesday 02 August 17 14:25 BST (UK)
I would think her maiden name is the reason for the confusion over Louis/Lewis.

Just added a bit more to my other posting :)

They are a good looking Family.
Title: Re: Swain family (-ies) in and near Condover
Post by: tonyharrison on Wednesday 02 August 17 15:04 BST (UK)
Trish, many thanks for your kindness. This extra info is valuable - I now know of another great-great-grandfather, born it seems in 1812! Married at 43 to a lady 19 years his junior, eh... Yes, my Swains picture is a good one, lucky to have it. They all look quite smart & prosperous so perhaps great-grandfather had progressed a bit from farm labourer.
Kind regards, Tony
Title: Re: Swain family (-ies) in and near Condover
Post by: Alberbury on Wednesday 02 August 17 20:47 BST (UK)
https://familysearch.org

Name   William Swain
Event Type   Census
Event Date   1911
Event Place   Upton Magna, , Shropshire, England
County   Shropshire
Parish   Upton Magna
Sub-District   Condover
Registration District   Atcham


William Swain   Head   M   50   COWMAN ON FARM    Masebery, Shropshire
Elenor Swain   Wife   F   55                                  Mivod, Shropshire 
Archie Swain   Son   M   12                                  Berrington, Shropshire
Charley Swain   Son   M   10                                  Upton Magna, Shropshire

Maesbury south of Oswestry
Meiford north-west of Welshpool
Title: Re: Swain family (-ies) in and near Condover
Post by: Alberbury on Wednesday 02 August 17 21:00 BST (UK)
https://familysearch.org

Name   William Swain
Event Type   Census
Event Date   1911
Event Place   Meifod, Meifod Welshpool, Montgomeryshire, Wales
County   Montgomeryshire
Parish   Meifod
Sub-District   Llansantffraid
Registration District   Llanfyllin


David Roberts   Head   M                   56   Llansaintffraid, Montgomeryshire
Margaret Roberts   Wife   F           58   Llangyniew, Montgomeryshire
Harry Cureton Roberts   Son   M   25   Llansaintffraid, Montgomeryshire
Ada Louisa Roberts   Daughter   F   23   Llansaintffraid, Montgomeryshire
Maude Roberts   Daughter   F           22   Llansaintffraid, Montgomeryshire
Arthur Owen Roberts   Son   M           18   Llansaintffraid, Montgomeryshire
Doris Hilda M Roberts   Daughter   F   15   Llansaintffraid, Montgomeryshire
William Henry Lloyd   Servant   M   34   Llansaintffraid, Montgomeryshire
William Swain   Servant   M           26  single  WAGGONER ON FARM    Berington, Shropshire


I think this William is the son of William and Eleanor Swain on the 1891 census of Berrington. Also Eleanor might of been born in Meiford. Could William or Eleanor Swain be related to either David or Margaret Roberts.
Title: Re: Swain family (-ies) in and near Condover
Post by: Alberbury on Wednesday 02 August 17 21:39 BST (UK)
https://familysearch.org

Esther Jane Swain
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening:   21 November 1886   Berrington, Shropshire, England
residence:      Berrington, Shropshire, England   
father:   William Swain
mother:   Eleanor
 
Lewis Swain
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening:   28 July 1889   Berrington, Shropshire, England
residence:      Berrington, Shropshire, England   
father:   William Swain
mother:   Eleanor

Thomas Swain
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening:   21 June 1891   Berrington, Shropshire, England
residence:      Berrington, Shropshire, England   
father:   William Swain
mother:   Ellen

David Hugh Swain
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening:   1 October 1893   Berrington, Shropshire, England
residence:      Berrington, Shropshire, England   
father:   William Swain
mother:   Eleanor

John Edwards Swain
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening:   6 October 1895   Berrington, Shropshire, England
residence:      Berrington, Shropshire, England   
father:   William Swain
mother:   Ellenor


Name   Archy Clement Swain
Event Type   Birth Registration
Registration Quarter   Apr-May-Jun
Registration Year   1898
Registration District   Atcham
County   Shropshire
Event Place   Atcham, Shropshire, England
Volume   6A
Page   600
Line Number   90


John Edwards Swain. The middle name could give you clues to an earlier family.
Title: Re: Swain family (-ies) in and near Condover
Post by: tonyharrison on Thursday 03 August 17 09:27 BST (UK)
Alberbury, thanks again for this additional information. If you do this for everyone here you can't have time to eat or sleep! Re your suggestion about my great-uncle Jack Swain's second name, might not "Edwards" be a misprint for "Edward"? The records certainly contain plenty of those: my great grandmother's name is spelt variously Eleanor, Elenor and plain Ellen. Then there's the odd business of my grandfather Louis/Lewis* apparently understating his age on joining up - why would anyone do that? Most likely a clerical error by an army clerk. Re great-uncle Will(-iam) listed as part of the Roberts farming household at Llansantffraid in 1911, I suppose it's possible there was some sort of connection with his mother's being from Montgomeryshire.
Kind regards, Tony
*Grandfather's army records show his name clearly as "Louis" not "Lewis".
Title: Re: Swain family (-ies) in and near Condover
Post by: Alberbury on Thursday 03 August 17 19:17 BST (UK)
You're Welcome Tony.

https://familysearch.org

Name   William Swain
Event Type   Census
Event Date   1881
Event Place   Oswestry (Rural Part), Shropshire, England
Registration District   Oswestry
Gender   Male
Age   26
Marital Status (Original)   Single

William Swain   Head   M   63                                       Ponsbury, Shropshire, England
Elizabeth Swain   Wife   F   49                                       Ponsbury, Shropshire, England
Emma Swain   Daughter   F   12                               Maesbury, Shropshire, England
Sarah Mullard   Mother   F   77                               Pontsbury, Shropshire, England   :)
William Swain   Son   M   26            Farm Labourer      Maesbury, Shropshire, England


Name   William Swain
Event Type   Census
Event Date   1871
Event Place   Maesbury, Maesbury, Shropshire, England

William Swain   Head   M   59   Labourer                   Shropshire
Elizabeth Swain   Wife   F   40                                   Pontesbury, Shropshire
John Swain   Son   M   14                                   Maesbury, Shropshire
Edward Swain   Son   M   12                                   Maesbury, Shropshire
William Swain   Son   M   10                                   Maesbury, Shropshire
Sarah Swain   Daughter   F   7                           Maesbury, Shropshire
Mary I Swain   Daughter   F   4                           Maesbury, Shropshire
Emma Swain   Daughter   F   1                           Maesbury, Shropshire


Name   William Swain
County   Shropshire
Event Type   Census
Event Date   1861
Event Place   Maesbury, Shropshire, England
Ecclesiastical Parish   Trinity Church
Registration District   Oswestry
Residence Note   Marsh Lane

William Swain   Head   M   40   Lead Farmer Man       Pontesbury, Shropshire
Elizabeth Swain   Wife   F   24                                   Pontesbury, Shropshire
John Swain   Son   M   4                                  Oswestry, Shropshire
Edward Swain   Son   M   1                                  Oswestry, Shropshire


Title: Re: Swain family (-ies) in and near Condover
Post by: Alberbury on Thursday 03 August 17 19:38 BST (UK)
https://familysearch.org

Name   William Swain
Event Type   Census
Event Date   1851
Event Place   Pontesbury, Shropshire, England
Registration District   Atcham
Gender   Male
Age   39
Marital Status   Wr

William Swain   Head   M   39   Labourer           Worthen, Salop
Ann Swain   Daughter   F   13                           Pontesbury, Salop
Richard Swain   Son   M   9                           Pontesbury, Salop
Elizabeth Swain   Daughter   F   7                   Pontesbury, Salop
Hannah Swain   Sister   F   32                   Pontesbury, Salop
Emma Swain   Niece   F   1                   Pontesbury, Salop


Name   William Swain
Event Type   Census
Event Date   1841
Event Place   Pontesbury, Shropshire, England
Residence Note   Church Street

William Swain      M   29-33   Shropshire
Elizabeth Swain      F   26-30   Shropshire
Ann Swain      F   3   Shropshire


William Swain
England Marriages, 1538–1973
marriage:   5 June 1837   Pontesbury, Shropshire, England   
spouse:   Elizabeth Gittoes

Anne Swaine
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening:   9 May 1838   PONTESBURY, SHROPSHIRE, ENGLAND   
father:   William Swaine
mother:   Elizabeth


I would check all these records from the local archives at Shrewsbury or findmypast.
At the moment this is just guess work.
Title: Re: Swain family (-ies) in and near Condover
Post by: tonyharrison on Friday 04 August 17 09:08 BST (UK)
Further thanks, Alberbury - it starts to become a little confusing when one finds people with the same name and apparently the same age marrying on two occasions four years apart in the same place! This is the case with great-uncle William Swain... I can see that much comparing of records is necessary. It doesn't help that names and places are often spelled so differently.
Regards, Tony
Title: Re: Swain family (-ies) in and near Condover
Post by: emjay-h on Tuesday 16 January 18 10:03 GMT (UK)
Hello Tony

There was a SWAIN family living in Condover in the 1950's when Mrs Swain was one of the cooks at the village school.  They had at least one son but he moved out of Shropshire when he started work.  There is at least one Swain family buried in the small cemetery at Condover.

With regard to the haulage business you are probably thinking of 'Swains of Stretton' which was located at Church Stretton for many years in the mid to late 1900's but has now relocated.  Their former yard is now a housing estate and the road is named Swain's Meadow.  If you do a search on the Internet for Swains of Stretton you will find several entries, one of which has the heading 'A History of Road Transport' and this will tell you a bit about the company.

Mike
Title: Re: Swain family (-ies) in and near Condover
Post by: tonyharrison on Tuesday 16 January 18 12:41 GMT (UK)
Mike, many thanks for taking the trouble to tell me this. Yes, I've known about Swains of Stretton for some years, having passed their trucks a few times! I've spoken with the boss Scott Swain - though I think it's his son who runs things mainly these days. He put me onto his cousin and her sister, with whom I am now in touch: they've been doing a bit of family research. We agree it seems likely these two branches of the Swains are connected, though this has yet to be confirmed.
Regards, Tony
Title: Re: Swain family (-ies) in and near Condover
Post by: Ragsroberts on Tuesday 17 August 21 13:02 BST (UK)
Hi. I believe I may be linked up too. My grandfather was Harold Swain (born 1904) who hailed from Salop but lived in Bangor/Llanfairfechan. His father was Thomas W Swain (1875-1933).

Wendy
Title: Re: Swain family (-ies) in and near Condover
Post by: tonyharrison on Saturday 05 November 22 11:20 GMT (UK)
Hi. I believe I may be linked up too. My grandfather was Harold Swain (born 1904) who hailed from Salop but lived in Bangor/Llanfairfechan. His father was Thomas W Swain (1875-1933).

Wendy
Hello Wendy - sorry for my tardy reply but I fiddle with family history only intermittently, and hadn't logged on for ages. I've checked my records, and among my own Swains of the appropriate generations, I find no Harold or Thomas. Sorry!
rgds Tony
Title: Re: Swain family (-ies) in and near Condover
Post by: tonyharrison on Saturday 05 November 22 11:27 GMT (UK)
First time I've posted here in ages, but a very brief update...
My attempts to look into some Swains in the Condover area were thwarted, since I failed repeatedly to receive responses from some Swain descendants in that immediate area. Maybe they've died, or moved away; maybe (like so many are, disappointingly) just not sufficiently interested to bother. They don't care about their family history.
On the other hand I was contacted recently by a lady (hello Karen!) looking into some family history re Swains from the Oswestry area - this might well affect me, since my Swain great-grandfather (William Swain) was born in 1861 at Maesbury, near Oswestry.
It's hard going, not helped by the fact that I'm busy with other things and spend time abroad; still, new information is always welcome.
Regards, Tony