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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: iolaus on Thursday 03 August 17 21:36 BST (UK)
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I appreciate that I may be trying to discover the impossible however thought if anyone can help it'd be rootschatters
My husband's greatgrandmother Norah Lily Hine (1914 - 2015) was orphaned in 1918 - her father was killed 29 May 1915 (he's one of the missing listed on the Menin gate) and the mother died of the flu epidemic in Dec 1918 and she and her two sisters and brother were all sent into an orphanage.
On researching the family tree I discovered another brother - George Fitsall Hine was born in Feb 1918 in Fulham - he was sent to Australia as part of the child migration programme in 1930 (he died in 2007)
From the British Home Children group on here there was the following information about his WW2 service
HINE GEORGE FITSALL :
Service Number - WX36526 :
Date of birth - 11 Feb 1918 :
Place of birth - LONDON ENGLAND :
Place of enlistment - GERALDTON WA :
Next of Kin - MRS FITSALL [Woolworth - Aunt]
I'm assuming his father must have been someone Fitsall and was wondering if there was any way of working out who he must have been
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That information is also on Ancestry in their Australia, World War II Military Service Records, 1939-1945, but you need a subscription to Fold3 to be able to see it. I wonder whether the actual records would give more detail such as an address which you could then check in the 1939 register?
If he gives her as NOK, it sounds as if he kept in touch with her after he went to Australia doesn't it?
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From FreeBMD.org.uk (Transcripts of England & Wales BMD Indexes):
Birth, March qtr 1918
Fulham Registration District vol 1a, page 438
Hine, George F Mother's Maiden Name: Coe
And a possible marriage?
December qtr 1897
Fulham Registration District vol 1a, page 609
Hine, Richard James
Coe, Henrietta Ann
In my own tree, surnames used as middle names usually refer to a grandmother's maiden name?
So, I suspect that is what happened here.
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From FreeBMD.org.uk (Transcripts of England & Wales BMD Indexes):
Birth, March qtr 1918
Fulham Registration District vol 1a, page 438
Hine, George F Mother's Maiden Name: Coe
And a possible marriage?
December qtr 1897
Fulham Registration District vol 1a, page 609
Hine, Richard James
Coe, Henrietta Ann
In my own tree, surnames used as middle names usually refer to a grandmother's maiden name?
So, I suspect that is what happened here.
Problem is though, as I understand it Richard James Hine died in 1915 - 3 years before George was born. So I think the Fitsall may have been to acknowledge his father.
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Look what I've found
https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/DetailsReports/ItemDetail.aspx?Barcode=6362254&isAv=N
Click on View digital copy on the right and you can see his record with the aunt's address!
82, Westmoreland Road, Woolworth.
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Problem is though, as I understand it Richard James Hine died in 1915 - 3 years before George was born. So I think the Fitsall may have been to acknowledge his father.
Oh sugar! I missed that bit. :-[
Possible siblings for George & Norah:
HINE, ETHEL ELIZABETH (Mother's maiden name:) COE
GRO Reference: 1899 J Quarter in WANDSWORTH Volume 01D Page 727
HINE, RICHARD JOHN COE
GRO Reference: 1910 M Quarter in ST MARYLEBONE Volume 01A Page 459
HINE, HENRIETTA CHARLOTTE COE
GRO Reference: 1907 D Quarter in FULHAM Volume 01A Page 348
HINE, IVY DOROTHY COE
GRO Reference: 1913 M Quarter in FULHAM Volume 01A Page 542
HINE, LILY NORA COE
GRO Reference: 1914 J Quarter in FULHAM Volume 01A Page 573
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Richard and Henrietta are my husbands great grandmother's parents (she was known as Norah Lily but registered as Lily Nora - even on Richards miltary records she's down as Norah)
George must be a half brother, due to Richards death 3 years earlier (I'm not sure as to whether George lived with Henrietta until her death or if he was given up immediately
The Australia records do state he was from a Barnados home and Norah was also brought up in a Barnados home
On the 1911 census it states 4 children 2 had died
I'd only got Henrietta Charlotte and Richard John at that point (and then Ivy and Norah afterwards)
Thanks for Ethel's details - there must be another somewhere too, which I will hunt up afterwards
There's no Fitsall in the family that I have been able to discover, hence me assuming when I discovered the unusual name that it must be his fathers
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hmm
1920 electoral register
82 Westmoreland road
GEORGE and JOHANNA FITSALL
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So I wonder if that's her - right address? So you now need to work out how she is connected.
Marriages Sep 1887
FITSALL George
Maloney Johanna
St. Saviour 1d 11
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George Fitsall appears to die in 1922
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Deaths, September qtr 1899
Wandsworth Registration District vol 1d, page 500
Hine, Ethel Elizabeth age 0
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Is this his birth?
FITSALL, GEORGE mmn WOODCOCK
1868 D Quarter in CAMBERWELL Volume 01D Page 613
Surely he can't be the father?
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That appears to be the George Fitsall who marries Joanna (from the 1911 census he was born approx 1869)
Henrietta was 41 when George Fitsall Hine was born, so although it would make him 9 years older than her thats not an unheard of age gap
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If that was the case it must have been common knowledge who the father, seems odd that he claimed Johanna as next of kin as well. She would have been stepmother really wouldn't she, not aunt? They must have been in touch for him to know her address.
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Have you looked through his records, unfortunately it doesn't give anymore clues to his father, but it does give a change of NOK, plus a marriage that says "false marriage" and two photos of him.
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Thanks for them groom - they are fantastic (wonder why one was a false marriage)
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I wonder if this is a clue from 1901 census?
3 Bell Yard, Croydon
George Fitsall 32 Fish Curer Hatcham, London
Johanna Fitsall 32 Peckham, London
George Fitsall 12 Peckham, London
Edward J Fitsall 8 Croydon
Mary Fitsall 6 Croydon
Johanna Fitsall 2 Croydon
John Fitsall 2 Croydon
12 in 1901 would make him 29 in 1918, right age to father a child.
By 1911 this George is married and living in Camberwell, I think he dies 1955.
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Henrietta Coe Hine was born in 1877 and was 41 when giving birth to George Fitsall Hine
I would say the father must be related to Joanna Maloney Fitsall, who he gives as his next of kin, but exactly who is unsure
Who is more likely?
George Fitsall senior - born 1869, so 49 when the baby was born
George Fitsall junior - born 1889, so 29 when the baby was born
I suppose it's possible that it's someone else in the family completely. There's a Joseph Fitsall (born 1870 George seniors younger brother) who died in 1918 (he was also married though) which would make Joanna his actual aunt by marriage.
If though George (and Joanna) took an interest in him - which clearly didn't extend to offering him a home - they may not have told him the truth about who they were, and aunt being an easy way to describe it
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Wow. Im so happy to have come across this thread. George fitsall hine is my grandfather. We are from perth western Australia. He came to fairbridge orphanage in pinjarrah when he was 11. Today we celebrated what would of been his 100 birthday at the fairbridge orphanage here in western australia. He lived to 89. We wrote his him name in google today and this thread come up. We would love to get in contact with the original poster. My email is (*)
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emailed you