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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: minniehaha on Tuesday 08 August 17 07:08 BST (UK)

Title: SOUNESS Agnes nee Robertson:when & where did she die?.......
Post by: minniehaha on Tuesday 08 August 17 07:08 BST (UK)
This topic has become part of the following and so for clarity I have split it off:

See reply # 53  @

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=776191.45

A marriage has been found for an Agnes Souness-

1894/1695 Agnes Souness to John Thomson

However, is this the Agnes Souness born-

1869/35380   Souness   Agnes   Agnes   John

Or is it the remarriage of her mother of the same name?

[Her mother was born in Edinburgh, date of birth unknown but her sister Jane Dickson Robertson was born in Edinburgh in 1838. Parents:Peter Robertson & Catherine nee Dickson.

Hoping you can help find Agnes (the mother's) death......

Minniehaha.
Title: Re: SOUNESS Agnes nee Robertson:when & where did she die?.......
Post by: Janette on Tuesday 08 August 17 10:25 BST (UK)

From an online source: " The ship "Jura" arrived into Port Chalmers, Dunedin 23rd Sept, 1858, on passenger list were: William & Mrs. Robertson, plus 8 children, also listed separately were Miss Agnes Robertson, who later married John Souness 11.9.1863, Dunedin, and Miss Jane Robertson who married James Curle, 30th March, 1860, Dunedin.NZ".

The passenger list

http://www.immigrantships.net/v2/1800v2/jura18580923.html

Cheers Janette
Title: Re: SOUNESS Agnes nee Robertson:when & where did she die?.......
Post by: Janette on Tuesday 08 August 17 10:55 BST (UK)
This looks like the family in the 1841 census from FreeCEN,making Agness 2 years younger than Jane

1841 Census
    
Piece: SCT1841/685 Place: St Cuthbert's -Midlothian Enumeration District: 4
Civil Parish: St Cuthbert's Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: -
Folio: 4 Page: 1
Address: 87 Pleasance

Surname       First name(s)   Sex   Age    Occupation       Where Born    Remarks   
 ROBERTSON    Peter       M    35    Joiner Journeyman     Outside Census County (1841)           
 ROBERTSON    Cathrane       F    30               Midlothian           
 ROBERTSON    Jane               F    3               Midlothian           
 ROBERTSON    Agness           F    1               Midlothian           
 PENMAN       Jane               F    55               Midlothian           
    
Peter is a widower in 1851

1851 Census
    
Piece: SCT1851/685 Place: St Cuthbert's -Midlothian Enumeration District: 4
Civil Parish: St Cuthberts Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: Barony Of Canongate
Folio: 699 Page: 15 Schedule: 76
Address: 17 Arthur Street

 Surname    First name(s)    Rel    Status    Sex    Age    Occupation     Where Born   
 ROBERTSON   Peter       Head    W       M    47    Joiner Journ    Berwickshire - Coldingham           
 ROBERTSON    Jane       Dau       -    F    13                Midlothian -Edinburgh           
 ROBERTSON    Agnes    Dau       -    F    11       Scholar Midlothian - Edinburgh           
ROBERTSON    James    Son       -    M    9       Scholar Midlothian - Edinburgh           
 ROBERTSON    Isabella    Dau       -    F    7       Scholar Midlothian - Edinburgh           
 ROBERTSON    Robert D    Son       -    M    4            Midlothian - Edinburgh       

Cheers Janette    
    
Title: Re: SOUNESS Agnes nee Robertson:when & where did she die?.......
Post by: minniehaha on Tuesday 08 August 17 19:43 BST (UK)
Hello Janette,

Yes, that is the correct family..... :)


Minniehaha.
Title: Re: SOUNESS Agnes nee Robertson:when & where did she die?.......
Post by: Lucy2 on Tuesday 08 August 17 19:52 BST (UK)

A marriage has been found for an Agnes Souness-

1894/1695 Agnes Souness to John Thomson

Or is it the remarriage of her mother of the same name?   
No, although her mother did re-marry .... see below.

[Her mother was born in Edinburgh, date of birth unknown but her sister Jane Dickson Robertson was born in Edinburgh in 1838. Parents:Peter Robertson & Catherine nee Dickson.

Hoping you can help find Agnes (the mother's) death......

Minniehaha.

Presbyterian Marriages - Otago :
Blueskin - Merton Parish (Waititi) - on 8 June 1883

SOUNESS - Agnes, nee ROBERTSON - 42 yrs   ' 77  (as written in index ?)
SARGISON - William
SARGISON - William - 32 yrs -- Mrs SOUNESS

[Same Parish > on 4 October 1892 > Catherine SOUNESS - 25 yrs to Robert THOMSON - 26 yrs
NZSG Marriages has > Catherine Dickson SOUNESS to Robert THOMSON ].
-----

Death Notice - Agnes SARGISON
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/ODT19250713.2.24

1928 Clutha e/roll

THOMSON - Catherine Dickson - married
THOMSON - Robert  - engine drive  .... both at Union Street, Milton
------

Otago Early Settlers Association

Mrs Agnes SARGISON, Milton, late Waitati (85) - "JURA" 1858

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/ODT19250715.2.104

------------

Burial Register --   Waitati  :  Blueskin
508.  SARGISON - Agnes --  Block 3 Plot 1 -- domestic of Milton - died 12 July 1925 aged 86 yrs - old age.
Title: Re: SOUNESS Agnes nee Robertson:when & where did she die?.......
Post by: minniehaha on Tuesday 08 August 17 20:13 BST (UK)
Thank you Lu, you have solved it......... :)

Part quote:

SOUNESS - Agnes, nee ROBERTSON - 42 yrs   ' 77  (as written in index ?)

'77 I believe refers to Agnes being widowed that year.


Minniehaha.
Title: Re: SOUNESS Agnes nee Robertson:when & where did she die?.......
Post by: minniehaha on Tuesday 08 August 17 20:17 BST (UK)
And the reason we could not find the marriage on NZ BDM......

1883/1452     Agnes   Soumess   William   Sargison


Minniehaha.
Title: Re: SOUNESS Agnes nee Robertson:when & where did she die?.......
Post by: Jamjar on Wednesday 09 August 17 01:50 BST (UK)
With reference to Agnes the second's marriage in 1894, there is a John Thomson who dies in a railway accident in 1900. You will find the inquest details in Papers Past.

His death notice has wife of Agnes:

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/OW19001031.2.107?query=%22Agnes%20Thomson%22

http://www.dunedin.govt.nz/facilities/cemeteries/cemeteries_search?recordid=104387&type=Burial

There are two births on NZBM to an Agnes and John 1895 and 1897.

Is there a possibility that John and Catherine's husband were brothers? Both were railway employees and both from Scotland. Both had son's George, if the above Agnes is correct.

If John is the correct husband, then it is likely the Agnes remarried, given her young age.

Jamjar


Title: Re: SOUNESS Agnes nee Robertson:when & where did she die?.......
Post by: Jamjar on Wednesday 09 August 17 01:55 BST (UK)
Mm, the birth of the George to Agnes and John, looks to be mother Agnes Johnson:

https://livesofthefirstworldwar.org/lifestory/7250653

Jamjar
Title: Re: SOUNESS Agnes nee Robertson:when & where did she die?.......
Post by: Jamjar on Wednesday 09 August 17 02:43 BST (UK)
Believe I have found Agnes with children George Edward and Agnes Elizabeth at Timaru Cemetery.

She is Johnston wife of James. Children both Thomson.

1921/482   Johnston Agnes 51Y

Photos of headstones: https://www.timaru.govt.nz/services/community-and-culture/cemeteries/cemetery-search?BurialId=22066

Marriage: 1904/5315   Agnes Thomson James Johnston

Jamjar
Title: Re: SOUNESS Agnes nee Robertson:when & where did she die?.......
Post by: minniehaha on Wednesday 09 August 17 03:02 BST (UK)
Hello Jamjar........

Now just to recap:

This Agnes born 1869, married-

1894/1695 Agnes Souness to John Thomson

Two children born from this union.

John Thomson dies in 1900.

Agnes remarries in 1904 to James Johnston.

Agnes dies in 1921.

You have a better grip on this family than I have at the moment....... :)

Thank you for your good work.

Minniehaha.

Title: Re: SOUNESS Agnes nee Robertson:when & where did she die?.......
Post by: Jamjar on Wednesday 09 August 17 03:09 BST (UK)
Yes, that's correct.

Here is her will and probate: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-81BF-79M?i=131&cc=1865481

Brave girl married a second railway employee.  ;)

Jamjar
Title: Re: SOUNESS Agnes nee Robertson:when & where did she die?.......
Post by: Jamjar on Wednesday 09 August 17 03:13 BST (UK)
Will and probate for James mentions his stepson. He requested cremation.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9SW-2T8B?cc=1865481

Jamjar

Title: Re: SOUNESS Agnes nee Robertson:when & where did she die?.......
Post by: minniehaha on Wednesday 09 August 17 03:42 BST (UK)
It all hangs together doesn't it. I see from the affidavit that Agnes Johnston, formerly Thomson nee Souness was born @ East Taieri.

I wonder if a Rootschatter may be able to confirm where this birth was registered?

1869/35380   Souness   Agnes   Agnes   John


Minniehaha.

Title: Re: SOUNESS Agnes nee Robertson:when & where did she die?.......
Post by: minniehaha on Wednesday 09 August 17 04:01 BST (UK)
If on the correct track:

Children of Agnes nee Souness (as already mentioned by Jamjar)

1895/1623   Thomson   Agnes Elizabeth   Agnes   John

1897/15783   Thomson   George Edward   Agnes   John

Daughter's death:
1921/5245   Thomson   Agnes Elizabeth   26Y

Son's marriage:

1921/9923   Recordia McGregor*   Bryant   George Edward*   Thomson

*Their son's death:

1998/24572   Thomson   Eric George   6 August 1922


Minniehaha.

Title: Re: SOUNESS Agnes nee Robertson:when & where did she die?.......
Post by: minniehaha on Wednesday 09 August 17 06:47 BST (UK)
War service details and biographical notes for George Edward Thomson. Place of birth, Dunedin.....

https://museum.timaru.govt.nz/explore/scroll/profile?id=3849


Minniehaha.
Title: Re: SOUNESS Agnes nee Robertson:when & where did she die?.......
Post by: spades on Wednesday 09 August 17 08:04 BST (UK)
Hi Minniehaha,

Quote
1869/35380   Souness   Agnes   Agnes   John

The folio number you provided above must be the more recent number found on NZBDM Historical Indexes online, and not the original microfiche listing.

The District Keys are only matched to the latter. If you can provide the microfiche folio number for this birth I will be able to find the location using the District Keys.

Spades
Title: Re: SOUNESS Agnes nee Robertson:when & where did she die?.......
Post by: Jamjar on Wednesday 09 August 17 08:14 BST (UK)
Will and probate for George mentions second son:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-893Q-84S5?i=18&cc=1865481

Jamjar

Title: Re: SOUNESS Agnes nee Robertson:when & where did she die?.......
Post by: minniehaha on Wednesday 09 August 17 08:41 BST (UK)
Hello Spades,

Sorry, I had forgotten about the difference between the new and the old BDM listings.... ::)

Thank you very much for your offer; I will see what I can do.


Minniehaha.

Title: Re: SOUNESS Agnes nee Robertson:when & where did she die?.......
Post by: kiwihalfpint on Wednesday 09 August 17 08:47 BST (UK)


The District Keys are only matched to the latter. If you can provide the microfiche folio number for this birth I will be able to find the location using the District Keys.

Spades

Will this do?   1252 :)

Cheers
KHP
Title: Re: SOUNESS Agnes nee Robertson:when & where did she die?.......
Post by: minniehaha on Wednesday 09 August 17 08:58 BST (UK)
Death of second son*......

1985/41409   Thomson   James Henry Ray   10 September 1925

[*As named in the will of George Edward Thomson]

Thank you KHP.... :)


Minniehaha.
Title: Re: SOUNESS Agnes nee Robertson:when & where did she die?.......
Post by: spades on Thursday 10 August 17 05:02 BST (UK)
Thanks KHP,

1252 falls within the registration range for East Taieri in 1869.

Spades
Title: Re: SOUNESS Agnes nee Robertson:when & where did she die?.......
Post by: minniehaha on Thursday 10 August 17 05:38 BST (UK)
Thank you Spades. Looks as if we have the correct family......... :)


Minniehaha.