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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: minniehaha on Tuesday 08 August 17 07:08 BST (UK)
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This topic has become part of the following and so for clarity I have split it off:
See reply # 53 @
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=776191.45
A marriage has been found for an Agnes Souness-
1894/1695 Agnes Souness to John Thomson
However, is this the Agnes Souness born-
1869/35380 Souness Agnes Agnes John
Or is it the remarriage of her mother of the same name?
[Her mother was born in Edinburgh, date of birth unknown but her sister Jane Dickson Robertson was born in Edinburgh in 1838. Parents:Peter Robertson & Catherine nee Dickson.
Hoping you can help find Agnes (the mother's) death......
Minniehaha.
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From an online source: " The ship "Jura" arrived into Port Chalmers, Dunedin 23rd Sept, 1858, on passenger list were: William & Mrs. Robertson, plus 8 children, also listed separately were Miss Agnes Robertson, who later married John Souness 11.9.1863, Dunedin, and Miss Jane Robertson who married James Curle, 30th March, 1860, Dunedin.NZ".
The passenger list
http://www.immigrantships.net/v2/1800v2/jura18580923.html
Cheers Janette
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This looks like the family in the 1841 census from FreeCEN,making Agness 2 years younger than Jane
1841 Census
Piece: SCT1841/685 Place: St Cuthbert's -Midlothian Enumeration District: 4
Civil Parish: St Cuthbert's Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: -
Folio: 4 Page: 1
Address: 87 Pleasance
Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
ROBERTSON Peter M 35 Joiner Journeyman Outside Census County (1841)
ROBERTSON Cathrane F 30 Midlothian
ROBERTSON Jane F 3 Midlothian
ROBERTSON Agness F 1 Midlothian
PENMAN Jane F 55 Midlothian
Peter is a widower in 1851
1851 Census
Piece: SCT1851/685 Place: St Cuthbert's -Midlothian Enumeration District: 4
Civil Parish: St Cuthberts Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: Barony Of Canongate
Folio: 699 Page: 15 Schedule: 76
Address: 17 Arthur Street
Surname First name(s) Rel Status Sex Age Occupation Where Born
ROBERTSON Peter Head W M 47 Joiner Journ Berwickshire - Coldingham
ROBERTSON Jane Dau - F 13 Midlothian -Edinburgh
ROBERTSON Agnes Dau - F 11 Scholar Midlothian - Edinburgh
ROBERTSON James Son - M 9 Scholar Midlothian - Edinburgh
ROBERTSON Isabella Dau - F 7 Scholar Midlothian - Edinburgh
ROBERTSON Robert D Son - M 4 Midlothian - Edinburgh
Cheers Janette
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Hello Janette,
Yes, that is the correct family..... :)
Minniehaha.
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A marriage has been found for an Agnes Souness-
1894/1695 Agnes Souness to John Thomson
Or is it the remarriage of her mother of the same name?
No, although her mother did re-marry .... see below.
[Her mother was born in Edinburgh, date of birth unknown but her sister Jane Dickson Robertson was born in Edinburgh in 1838. Parents:Peter Robertson & Catherine nee Dickson.
Hoping you can help find Agnes (the mother's) death......
Minniehaha.
Presbyterian Marriages - Otago :
Blueskin - Merton Parish (Waititi) - on 8 June 1883
SOUNESS - Agnes, nee ROBERTSON - 42 yrs ' 77 (as written in index ?)
SARGISON - William
SARGISON - William - 32 yrs -- Mrs SOUNESS
[Same Parish > on 4 October 1892 > Catherine SOUNESS - 25 yrs to Robert THOMSON - 26 yrs
NZSG Marriages has > Catherine Dickson SOUNESS to Robert THOMSON ].
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Death Notice - Agnes SARGISON
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/ODT19250713.2.24
1928 Clutha e/roll
THOMSON - Catherine Dickson - married
THOMSON - Robert - engine drive .... both at Union Street, Milton
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Otago Early Settlers Association
Mrs Agnes SARGISON, Milton, late Waitati (85) - "JURA" 1858
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/ODT19250715.2.104
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Burial Register -- Waitati : Blueskin
508. SARGISON - Agnes -- Block 3 Plot 1 -- domestic of Milton - died 12 July 1925 aged 86 yrs - old age.
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Thank you Lu, you have solved it......... :)
Part quote:
SOUNESS - Agnes, nee ROBERTSON - 42 yrs ' 77 (as written in index ?)
'77 I believe refers to Agnes being widowed that year.
Minniehaha.
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And the reason we could not find the marriage on NZ BDM......
1883/1452 Agnes Soumess William Sargison
Minniehaha.
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With reference to Agnes the second's marriage in 1894, there is a John Thomson who dies in a railway accident in 1900. You will find the inquest details in Papers Past.
His death notice has wife of Agnes:
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/OW19001031.2.107?query=%22Agnes%20Thomson%22
http://www.dunedin.govt.nz/facilities/cemeteries/cemeteries_search?recordid=104387&type=Burial
There are two births on NZBM to an Agnes and John 1895 and 1897.
Is there a possibility that John and Catherine's husband were brothers? Both were railway employees and both from Scotland. Both had son's George, if the above Agnes is correct.
If John is the correct husband, then it is likely the Agnes remarried, given her young age.
Jamjar
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Mm, the birth of the George to Agnes and John, looks to be mother Agnes Johnson:
https://livesofthefirstworldwar.org/lifestory/7250653
Jamjar
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Believe I have found Agnes with children George Edward and Agnes Elizabeth at Timaru Cemetery.
She is Johnston wife of James. Children both Thomson.
1921/482 Johnston Agnes 51Y
Photos of headstones: https://www.timaru.govt.nz/services/community-and-culture/cemeteries/cemetery-search?BurialId=22066
Marriage: 1904/5315 Agnes Thomson James Johnston
Jamjar
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Hello Jamjar........
Now just to recap:
This Agnes born 1869, married-
1894/1695 Agnes Souness to John Thomson
Two children born from this union.
John Thomson dies in 1900.
Agnes remarries in 1904 to James Johnston.
Agnes dies in 1921.
You have a better grip on this family than I have at the moment....... :)
Thank you for your good work.
Minniehaha.
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Yes, that's correct.
Here is her will and probate: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-81BF-79M?i=131&cc=1865481
Brave girl married a second railway employee. ;)
Jamjar
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Will and probate for James mentions his stepson. He requested cremation.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9SW-2T8B?cc=1865481
Jamjar
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It all hangs together doesn't it. I see from the affidavit that Agnes Johnston, formerly Thomson nee Souness was born @ East Taieri.
I wonder if a Rootschatter may be able to confirm where this birth was registered?
1869/35380 Souness Agnes Agnes John
Minniehaha.
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If on the correct track:
Children of Agnes nee Souness (as already mentioned by Jamjar)
1895/1623 Thomson Agnes Elizabeth Agnes John
1897/15783 Thomson George Edward Agnes John
Daughter's death:
1921/5245 Thomson Agnes Elizabeth 26Y
Son's marriage:
1921/9923 Recordia McGregor* Bryant George Edward* Thomson
*Their son's death:
1998/24572 Thomson Eric George 6 August 1922
Minniehaha.
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War service details and biographical notes for George Edward Thomson. Place of birth, Dunedin.....
https://museum.timaru.govt.nz/explore/scroll/profile?id=3849
Minniehaha.
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Hi Minniehaha,
1869/35380 Souness Agnes Agnes John
The folio number you provided above must be the more recent number found on NZBDM Historical Indexes online, and not the original microfiche listing.
The District Keys are only matched to the latter. If you can provide the microfiche folio number for this birth I will be able to find the location using the District Keys.
Spades
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Will and probate for George mentions second son:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-893Q-84S5?i=18&cc=1865481
Jamjar
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Hello Spades,
Sorry, I had forgotten about the difference between the new and the old BDM listings.... ::)
Thank you very much for your offer; I will see what I can do.
Minniehaha.
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The District Keys are only matched to the latter. If you can provide the microfiche folio number for this birth I will be able to find the location using the District Keys.
Spades
Will this do? 1252 :)
Cheers
KHP
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Death of second son*......
1985/41409 Thomson James Henry Ray 10 September 1925
[*As named in the will of George Edward Thomson]
Thank you KHP.... :)
Minniehaha.
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Thanks KHP,
1252 falls within the registration range for East Taieri in 1869.
Spades
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Thank you Spades. Looks as if we have the correct family......... :)
Minniehaha.
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Greetings all
Agnes Souness (nee Robertson) is my grandmothers grandma. I registered on this site so that I could leave my thanks to you all for the openness with which you have shared your findings. The paperspast links, the shipping records links. I appreciate the many hours of reading and work this no doubt represents. I have just started looking into this and found my grandmothers father was born after John Souness died. Imagine my surprise. Yet he was still given the 'Souness' name. No wonder story goes that he moved to Dunedin from Waitati and had little more to do with with . his family (who I now know were half siblings). Although perhaps the youngest Souness child (also born after John died, who also carried the Souness name) was his full sibling?
Thanks again, very grateful
Deirdre
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Hi Deirdre and welcome to RootsChat,glad this thread has been of use to you,
Cheers Janette
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Hello Deirdre,
Welcome! :)
We appear to be distantly related. My great-grandmother was a sister of Agnes.
If you put up two more posts, just a :) in each will do, we can then exchange information through the personal messaging system........
Minniehaha.
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:)
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:)
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Hello Deirdre,
I have sent a personal message, to set the ball rolling....... ;D
Minniehaha.