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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lincolnshire => Topic started by: Midlands girl on Thursday 10 August 17 14:39 BST (UK)

Title: Woodlands Court, Kirton
Post by: Midlands girl on Thursday 10 August 17 14:39 BST (UK)
Hi
My grandfather died at Woodlands Court, Kirton in August 1946, age 76. Does anyone know where records would be found for this date and prior to this?  His name was John William Green and the first mention of him is living with his grandparents in Sutterton in 1891 where his age is given as17.
Any help much appreciated as I have searched for him for years!   I have him in 1891, 1901 and 1911. Thanks
Title: Re: Woodlands Court, Kirton
Post by: Geoff-E on Thursday 10 August 17 14:56 BST (UK)
The age in 1891 was 19 which, if correct, would mean a birth in 1871/2.

There was a JWG registered in Q2 1871 in Boston district, mother nee SMITH.

There was a marriage at Kirton, 21 Mar 1871 between Edward GREEN (son on William) to Martha SMITH (dau of Henry).

EDIT: John GREEN (9) was also with grandparents in 1881.

EDIT2: FreeREG has a baptism for JWG, 16 June 1872 at Frampton, son of Edward and Martha.

EDIT3: Edward and Martha can be found in Frampton in 1871, Kirton in 1881.
Title: Re: Woodlands Court, Kirton
Post by: Geoff-E on Thursday 10 August 17 15:30 BST (UK)
I have found JWG, wife Alice, daughters Annie and Alice in 1939 in Southend, keeping a grocer's shop. I am sure this matches the family in 1911.

His date of birth given as 16 June 1871, Alice 30 Nov 1871, Annie 26 Mar 1898, Alice 7 Aug 1902.

I think it likely that JWG died in Southend in Q1 1946 aged 74, and (possibly) Alice in Q3 1951 aged 80.

I realise this doesn't match what you already have.  :-\

JWG doesn't appear in Kirton or Frampton in the 1933 Kelly's directory.

I assume this marriage is right -
25 May 1897 at Wigtoft
John William GREEN (son of Edward) to Alice SELLERS (dau of Newton)
Title: Re: Woodlands Court, Kirton
Post by: Midlands girl on Monday 14 August 17 20:31 BST (UK)
I have found JWG, wife Alice, daughters Annie and Alice in 1939 in Southend, keeping a grocer's shop. I am sure this matches the family in 1911.

His date of birth given as 16 June 1871, Alice 30 Nov 1871, Annie 26 Mar 1898, Alice 7 Aug 1902.

I think it likely that JWG died in Southend in Q1 1946 aged 74, and (possibly) Alice in Q3 1951 aged 80.

I realise this doesn't match what you already have.  :-\.   





Thanks ,Geoff, but I am afraid that none of above info. is anything to do with my grandfather, John William Green.
This is what I have which I know is correct.
1891 living in Fosdyke with grandparents---age 17
1901 living with wife and family in Dawsmere, Lincs. ---age 28
1911 living with wife and family in Thorney---age 39

8/8/1897 marriage cert. age 23
Wife Lucy Sarah Hart (my grandmother) died.
26/12/1921 marriage cert. age 52.   Nottinghamshire.

Second wife died and do not know when he left Notts. And returned to Lincs. Sometime after 1925.
Died Woodlands Court, Kirton and brought back to Nottinghamshire for burial.
I wonder if there are any records of Woodlands Court(wrote a few years ago, but no reply)
Cannot find JWG on 1939 register, but unable to search fully.
Seem to have hit a brick wall for info. before1891 and 1925--to 1946.
Any ideas anyone?
Thanks again, Geoff

JWG doesn't appear in Kirton or Frampton in the 1933 Kelly's directory.

I assume this marriage is right -
25 May 1897 at Wigtoft
John William GREEN (son of Edward) to Alice SELLERS (dau of Newton)
Title: Re: Woodlands Court, Kirton
Post by: Geoff-E on Monday 14 August 17 21:27 BST (UK)
Thanks ,Geoff, but I am afraid that none of above info. is anything to do with my grandfather, John William Green.
This is what I have which I know is correct.
1891 living in Fosdyke with grandparents---age 17
1901 living with wife and family in Dawsmere, Lincs. ---age 28
1911 living with wife and family in Thorney---age 39

8/8/1897 marriage cert. age 23
Wife Lucy Sarah Hart (my grandmother) died.
26/12/1921 marriage cert. age 52.   Nottinghamshire.

Second wife died and do not know when he left Notts. And returned to Lincs. Sometime after 1925.
Died Woodlands Court, Kirton and brought back to Nottinghamshire for burial.
I wonder if there are any records of Woodlands Court(wrote a few years ago, but no reply)
Cannot find JWG on 1939 register, but unable to search fully.
Seem to have hit a brick wall for info. before1891 and 1925--to 1946.
Any ideas anyone?
Thanks again, Geoff

Hi again :)

I had failed to find him in 1891 as FindMyPast has him as GREER.

Looking at the GRO search, his mother's maiden name appears to be GIBSON
Title: Re: Woodlands Court, Kirton
Post by: Geoff-E on Monday 14 August 17 21:50 BST (UK)
I've found a

John Wm GREEN 7 in 1881, born Boston

Son of John and Ann, living in Boston.

Marriage Q2 1869 Spalding, John GREEN to Ann GIBSON
Title: Re: Woodlands Court, Kirton
Post by: Geoff-E on Tuesday 15 August 17 09:27 BST (UK)
On another tack, Thomas and Mary GREEN may have had a daughter Sarah Ellen in 1855 (mother nee WILLSON). No idea what became of her, but she would have been about 18 in 1873 ...
Title: Re: Woodlands Court, Kirton
Post by: trish1120 on Tuesday 15 August 17 14:55 BST (UK)
Hi Midlands Girl,

From John William Greens 2 Marriage Certs what is his Fathers name/occp?

The John Wm Green in 1881 Census with Parents John/Ann is still with them in 1891 Census;

1881 Boston;
John Green 40
Ann Green   35
John Wm. Green 7
Caroline Green   10
George Green   4
James Edward Green   1

1891 Boston;
John Green   50
Ann Green     48
Caroline Green   20
John W Green   17
George Green   14
James E Green   11
Charles W Green 9


So cant be the one in 1891 Census with Thomas/Mary his Grandparents.
Anc has them as Grell!


Trish :)
Title: Re: Woodlands Court, Kirton
Post by: Geoff-E on Tuesday 15 August 17 18:18 BST (UK)
1891 Boston;
John Green   50
Ann Green     48
Caroline Green   20
John W Green   17
George Green   14
James E Green   11
Charles W Green 9

So cant be the one in 1891 Census with Thomas/Mary his Grandparents.
Anc has them as Grell!

I think the father of John who married Ann was John (agreed ... wrong couple ;) )

As I said earlier, the daughter of Tom and Mary - Sarah Ellen 1855 - may be an important part of the jigsaw.

EDIT: A Sarah GREEN (of the workhouse) had a son John Thomas GREEN bap at Fleet 4 April 1873.
Title: Re: Woodlands Court, Kirton
Post by: trish1120 on Wednesday 16 August 17 14:32 BST (UK)
I agree with you Geoff-E;
Quote;
As I said earlier, the daughter of Tom and Mary - Sarah Ellen 1855 - may be an important part of the jigsaw.

Baptisms;
St Mary, Sutterton
WALTER 29 June 1856
SARAH Ellen 29 June 1856
EMMA 13 Dec 1857
JOHN JOSHUA 15 Oct 1859
ANN REBECCA 29 March 1862
THOMAS ALFRED 30 Jan 1864

I cant find any of them 1861 Census either.


Title: Re: Woodlands Court, Kirton
Post by: Geoff-E on Wednesday 16 August 17 15:22 BST (UK)
I cant find any of them 1861 Census either.

No, nor me ???

I didn't know about Emma. I see she was a servant in nearby Kirton in 1871.
Title: Re: Woodlands Court, Kirton
Post by: Midlands girl on Sunday 20 August 17 16:01 BST (UK)
 l
Thanks Geoff and Trish.
I knew of all baptisms of children of Thomas and Ann Green and I was the person who corrected all info. on census where surname transcribed as Grell, place of birth of Thomas is Stretton and grandaughter should be Mary Emily Green (daughter of Walter who was a widower by then).
I have info. on Greens in Stretton, Rutland.
On both marriage certs. John William Green puts Thomas Green, a farmer as his father.  He may of course not wanted to say that he was illegitimate, or did not know that Thomas was really his grandfather or ?..
I think that if I could just find John William's exact date of birth that might help solve the mystery---I would like to find him on 1939 register if possible where complete birth dates asked---I think that most people would have known day and month even if they were unsure of year.  The other possibility is if anyone has access to Sutterton School admission registers?
Thanks again
Sandra
Title: Re: Woodlands Court, Kirton
Post by: trish1120 on Monday 21 August 17 10:32 BST (UK)
My gut instinct is John William Green is illegitimate and has put his Grandfathers name on his M/C's.


Sarah Ellen is in London in 1871 Census;
Anc has her as Sarah E TREEN, age, 16, Servant, born c 1855 Sutterton, Lincs
In the Gilding Household.
They are from Sutterton also.
Title: Re: Woodlands Court, Kirton
Post by: Geoff-E on Monday 21 August 17 11:33 BST (UK)
Good find Trish!

Does Anc have a baptism for the JWG born Q4 1873 in Kensington in its London baptisms?
Title: Re: Woodlands Court, Kirton
Post by: Geoff-E on Monday 21 August 17 11:57 BST (UK)
I knew of all baptisms of children of Thomas and Ann Green and I was the person who corrected all info. on census where surname transcribed as Grell, place of birth of Thomas is Stretton and grandaughter should be Mary Emily Green (daughter of Walter who was a widower by then).
I have info. on Greens in Stretton, Rutland.

I assume your comment re GRELL refers to 1881 (I have just found them on FindMyPast).

There is a William Henry GREEN (7) there (FindMyPast has him as GRACE). The GRO has him as illegitimate.  I wonder what became of him?
Title: Re: Woodlands Court, Kirton
Post by: Geoff-E on Monday 21 August 17 13:36 BST (UK)
Woodlands Court was the home of Thomas E DENNIS.  The DENNISes became an important farming family in the area.

He died at the end of 1940 (leaving almost £150k).

A sale was held on 30 July 1942, selling DENNIS's effects.

In October 1942, "hospital at Woodlands Court" was advertising for a Clerk, apply to Boston Public Assistance Officer, County Hall, Boston.